DeAndre Ayton

[doordoor123]

Collins wasn’t shooting jumpers at all, Ayton is. They’re not in the same situation.[/quote]
I was just explaining why a supposed 'dominant' post player would choose to display his midrange game and 3ptr instead of punishing guys down low. Any prospect who primarily works in the low post is viewed as obsolete for reasons that I can't fully understand.[/quote]

This difference is that Collins expanded his game, Ayton needs to be disciplined.

[916fan]

Collins wasn’t shooting jumpers at all, Ayton is. They’re not in the same situation.

I was just explaining why a supposed 'dominant' post player would choose to display his midrange game and 3ptr instead of punishing guys down low. Any prospect who primarily works in the low post is viewed as obsolete for reasons that I can't fully understand.[/quote]

This difference is that Collins expanded his game, Ayton needs to be disciplined.[/quote]
lol Collins expanded his game but Ayton needs to be disciplined? You do know that Collins is a year older than Ayton right? Ayton could just as well make these improvements in his rookie year.

Plus, Ayton is already a better and more willing jumpshooter than Collins is last year, so I'm a little clueless on what you're trying to get at.

[Ettorefm]

Read on Twitter

Ladies and gentleman, KAT's defense. Now think that Ayton is even more clueless

[SportsGuy8]

I call this a "headless chicken syndrome". And sadly it's something that's basically almost unfixable. This isn't like defensive effort, which is easily fixable/trainable.

I think that Amare Stoudemire was the only one who had a severe case of it and still made a decent career. All others disappointed and ended up being busts or borderline-busts.

[thr3ep01nte4]

Teams will think Ayton is such a physical specimen and deem those issues fixable and take him no.1 or no.2 anyway. That’s usually how the draft works.

[SportsGuy8]

Yep. That's also how usually draft busts happen. Although he seems to be too individually gifted to end up being a true bust.

[CptCrunch]

Basketball IQ is important. MVP level players from recent years aside from Rose and Westbrook has all had great basketball IQ.

[shakes0]

This guy is a real paradox for me. On the one hand I see a guy who clearly isn't afraid to work hard off the court, but then I watch him play and I would describe him on the court as lazy and doesn't work hard. Too many times I've seen him stand there 10 feet from the basket when a shot goes up and he doesn't bother to crash the boards.

Heck, Lonzo Ball crashes the boards from the 3pt line more than Ayton crashes from the foul line.

[Ettorefm]

This guy is a real paradox for me. On the one hand I see a guy who clearly isn't afraid to work hard off the court, but then I watch him play and I would describe him on the court as lazy and doesn't work hard. Too many times I've seen him stand there 10 feet from the basket when a shot goes up and he doesn't bother to crash the boards.

Heck, Lonzo Ball crashes the boards from the 3pt line more than Ayton crashes from the foul line.

Lonzo is one of the hardest working dudes on the court, specially when it envolves rebounding, boxing out, etc. I know, you meant guard vs big, but...

[BlueSan]

Teams will think Ayton is such a physical specimen and deem those issues fixable and take him no.1 or no.2 anyway. That’s usually how the draft works.

Does it? Especially with the current "flood" of good big men in NBA and their roles on the team. Does it really?

In my opinion there are two ways to go about it in general. First, you take a talented big man as a high pick and give him a nice salary and what not or you take a free agent big man a more finished product and some one you are quite sure can contribute from the start... or hack with this draft you have bunch of half finished potentially good prospects and you take some of them with your second pick also...

It of course depends on the team and the situation. But I am not sure that in this following draft you would automatically go with the big men out there on pick 1,2,3, key word being automatically.

Just my 5 cents

[shakes0]

This guy is a real paradox for me. On the one hand I see a guy who clearly isn't afraid to work hard off the court, but then I watch him play and I would describe him on the court as lazy and doesn't work hard. Too many times I've seen him stand there 10 feet from the basket when a shot goes up and he doesn't bother to crash the boards.

Heck, Lonzo Ball crashes the boards from the 3pt line more than Ayton crashes from the foul line.

Lonzo is one of the hardest working dudes on the court, specially when it envolves rebounding, boxing out, etc. I know, you meant guard vs big, but...

yea that's what I'm saying. a guy like Ayton who doesn't let anyone out work in at practice or in the weight room shouldn't be letting guys out work him in the actual games. If a guy like Lonzo who's a PG can crash the boards on just about every shot there's no reason a physical specimen like Ayton shouldn't be doing the same thing. You would think being active would be his bread and butter given his athletic ability.

The good news is this is the kind of thing that can easily be fixed. Could be as simple as a light bulb going off above his head one day and he realizes that he should be going 100% every second of every game. Hopefully AYton figures it out sooner rather than later.

[thr3ep01nte4]

Teams will think Ayton is such a physical specimen and deem those issues fixable and take him no.1 or no.2 anyway. That’s usually how the draft works.

Does it? Especially with the current "flood" of good big men in NBA and their roles on the team. Does it really?

In my opinion there are two ways to go about it in general. First, you take a talented big man as a high pick and give him a nice salary and what not or you take a free agent big man a more finished product and some one you are quite sure can contribute from the start... or hack with this draft you have bunch of half finished potentially good prospects and you take some of them with your second pick also...

It of course depends on the team and the situation. But I am not sure that in this following draft you would automatically go with the big men out there on pick 1,2,3, key word being automatically.

Just my 5 cents

I think being 7'1", 260, having a 44" vertical, and averaging 20+12 in college means Ayton is a talented big man who's also a physical specimen. Teams drafted at the top this year are generally bad everywhere. As for the free agent stuff, Ayton is projected to be on the level of Towns, Cousins, Embiid by scouts. They are better than Deandre Jordan IMO. Towns caliber big men generally don't come around very often. That's why teams are willing to take the risk. I agree with you to some extent, Ayton is unproven and may end up a bust.

[J_T]

As much as I agree with some of the criticism, I think it's quite unlikely that he'd actually become a bust. If I'd give bust ratings (where 1 means least likely to be a bust) to top 5 players I'd go:

1 Doncic
3 Ayton
5 Porter (injury raises it for me)
5 Bagley
7 Bamba

[Ettorefm]

This guy is a real paradox for me. On the one hand I see a guy who clearly isn't afraid to work hard off the court, but then I watch him play and I would describe him on the court as lazy and doesn't work hard. Too many times I've seen him stand there 10 feet from the basket when a shot goes up and he doesn't bother to crash the boards.

Heck, Lonzo Ball crashes the boards from the 3pt line more than Ayton crashes from the foul line.

Lonzo is one of the hardest working dudes on the court, specially when it envolves rebounding, boxing out, etc. I know, you meant guard vs big, but...

yea that's what I'm saying. a guy like Ayton who doesn't let anyone out work in at practice or in the weight room shouldn't be letting guys out work him in the actual games. If a guy like Lonzo who's a PG can crash the boards on just about every shot there's no reason a physical specimen like Ayton shouldn't be doing the same thing. You would think being active would be his bread and butter given his athletic ability.

The good news is this is the kind of thing that can easily be fixed. Could be as simple as a light bulb going off above his head one day and he realizes that he should be going 100% every second of every game. Hopefully AYton figures it out sooner rather than later.

Easily fixed? This is like saying "All my problems could be easily fixed in a second by winning the lottery. ". Sure, it would ''easily'' fix it, but the odds of it happening are extremely LOW. It's actually HARD

Gobert could easily go from All star to MVP if he had a 3pt shot, but how likely is that to happen?

I don't mean to be rude, but motor is the most difficult thing to suddenly 'get'. I have seen 2 or 3 guys in all my years watching the NBA go from low motor and lackadaisical attitude to scrappy and high motor. 99% of low energy, bad motor guys never get it. Bigs, wings, whatever.

[shakes0]

Lonzo is one of the hardest working dudes on the court, specially when it envolves rebounding, boxing out, etc. I know, you meant guard vs big, but...

yea that's what I'm saying. a guy like Ayton who doesn't let anyone out work in at practice or in the weight room shouldn't be letting guys out work him in the actual games. If a guy like Lonzo who's a PG can crash the boards on just about every shot there's no reason a physical specimen like Ayton shouldn't be doing the same thing. You would think being active would be his bread and butter given his athletic ability.

The good news is this is the kind of thing that can easily be fixed. Could be as simple as a light bulb going off above his head one day and he realizes that he should be going 100% every second of every game. Hopefully AYton figures it out sooner rather than later.

Easily fixed? This is like saying "All my problems could be easily fixed in a second by winning the lottery. ". Sure, it would ''easily'' fix it, but the odds of it happening are extremely LOW. It's actually HARD

Gobert could easily go from All star to MVP if he had a 3pt shot, but how likely is that to happen?

I don't mean to be rude, but motor is the most difficult thing to suddenly 'get'. I have seen 2 or 3 guys in all my years watching the NBA go from low motor and lackadaisical attitude to scrappy and high motor. 99% of low energy, bad motor guys never get it. Bigs, wings, whatever.

I disagree. Fixing the motor is as simple as fixing one's attitude. All it takes is effort to increase motor. Don't even need to add any additional skills (unlike your example with Gobert). Especially with a young player where all it could take is some natural maturation that comes with age and experience.

Not saying it's going to happen with Ayton and there are definitely plenty of examples of people who never "get it", but those people usually don't have the impressive off court/practice work ethic that Ayton already possesses. It really shouldn't be too hard to bring the same mindset he has about working hard off the court to the actual court itself.

I think right now his lack of effort is more about his inexperience/ignorance about the game of basketball as opposed to any sort of fatal flaw with his mental makeup (i.e. like an Eddy Curry or any of the other countless examples of guy's who were just inherently lazy).

[Ettorefm]

yea that's what I'm saying. a guy like Ayton who doesn't let anyone out work in at practice or in the weight room shouldn't be letting guys out work him in the actual games. If a guy like Lonzo who's a PG can crash the boards on just about every shot there's no reason a physical specimen like Ayton shouldn't be doing the same thing. You would think being active would be his bread and butter given his athletic ability.

The good news is this is the kind of thing that can easily be fixed. Could be as simple as a light bulb going off above his head one day and he realizes that he should be going 100% every second of every game. Hopefully AYton figures it out sooner rather than later.

Easily fixed? This is like saying "All my problems could be easily fixed in a second by winning the lottery. ". Sure, it would ''easily'' fix it, but the odds of it happening are extremely LOW. It's actually HARD

Gobert could easily go from All star to MVP if he had a 3pt shot, but how likely is that to happen?

I don't mean to be rude, but motor is the most difficult thing to suddenly 'get'. I have seen 2 or 3 guys in all my years watching the NBA go from low motor and lackadaisical attitude to scrappy and high motor. 99% of low energy, bad motor guys never get it. Bigs, wings, whatever.

I disagree. Fixing the motor is as simple as fixing one's attitude. All it takes is effort to increase motor. Don't even need to add any additional skills (unlike your example with Gobert). Especially with a young player where all it could take is some natural maturation that comes with age and experience.

Not saying it's going to happen with Ayton and there are definitely plenty of examples of people who never "get it", but those people usually don't have the impressive off court/practice work ethic that Ayton already possesses. It really shouldn't be too hard to bring the same mindset he has about working hard off the court to the actual court itself.

I think right now his lack of effort is more about his inexperience/ignorance about the game of basketball as opposed to any sort of fatal flaw with his mental makeup (i.e. like an Eddy Curry or any of the other countless examples of guy's who were just inherently lazy).

Let's entertain your idea. How many dudes with a 'bad attitude' have changed throughout their NBA years?

The guys with attitude problems, for example, have always been that way; no coach can change that. It would be like saying "Boogie is a big of a loose cannon, but with the right coach and maturity, he'll calm down for sure"

I don't remember any case that has happened.Ever.

Oh, and 'having an attitude' or being 'a loose cannon' is MUCH more likely to change than motor. I again ask you to mention 5 guys who have changed their approach to the game (MOTOR, GIVING 100%) during their NBA years. Just 5.

I can only name 3, and I've been watching the nba for two decades. I'd take teaching Gobert, a horrible shooter, to shoot 3's than make Nick Young play 100% for an entire stretch (1 or 2 games is easy). Or Dwight howard when he's not getting post touches.

[shakes0]

Easily fixed? This is like saying "All my problems could be easily fixed in a second by winning the lottery. ". Sure, it would ''easily'' fix it, but the odds of it happening are extremely LOW. It's actually HARD

Gobert could easily go from All star to MVP if he had a 3pt shot, but how likely is that to happen?

I don't mean to be rude, but motor is the most difficult thing to suddenly 'get'. I have seen 2 or 3 guys in all my years watching the NBA go from low motor and lackadaisical attitude to scrappy and high motor. 99% of low energy, bad motor guys never get it. Bigs, wings, whatever.

I disagree. Fixing the motor is as simple as fixing one's attitude. All it takes is effort to increase motor. Don't even need to add any additional skills (unlike your example with Gobert). Especially with a young player where all it could take is some natural maturation that comes with age and experience.

Not saying it's going to happen with Ayton and there are definitely plenty of examples of people who never "get it", but those people usually don't have the impressive off court/practice work ethic that Ayton already possesses. It really shouldn't be too hard to bring the same mindset he has about working hard off the court to the actual court itself.

I think right now his lack of effort is more about his inexperience/ignorance about the game of basketball as opposed to any sort of fatal flaw with his mental makeup (i.e. like an Eddy Curry or any of the other countless examples of guy's who were just inherently lazy).

Let's entertain your idea. How many dudes with a 'bad attitude' have changed throughout their NBA years?

The guys with attitude problems, for example, have always been that way; no coach can change that. It would be like saying "Boogie is a big of a loose cannon, but with the right coach and maturity, he'll calm down for sure"

I don't remember any case that has happened.Ever.

Oh, and 'having an attitude' or being 'a loose cannon' is MUCH more likely to change than motor. I again ask you to mention 5 guys who have changed their approach to the game (MOTOR, GIVING 100%) during their NBA years. Just 5.

I can only name 3, and I've been watching the nba for two decades. I'd take teaching Gobert, a horrible shooter, to shoot 3's than make Nick Young play 100% for an entire stretch (1 or 2 games is easy).

You're missing one key factor in your analysis. That being that there is already evidence that Ayton is a hard worker with a good attitude in practice and in the weight room. That's a MASSIVE difference between him and the countless NBA players who have come in with bad attitudes/motors and never improved. It really makes Ayton an enigma/paradox.

[J_T]

Let's entertain your idea. How many dudes with a 'bad attitude' have changed throughout their NBA years?

That's something that people don't want to accept. I'd like to change some of my personality traits but I'm not succeeding. It's something that we are just very bad at and usually it takes more than a simple decision in order to achieve it. You need to have special life experience, special training, special conditions. For example if I was fighting in a war, I'm sure that my personality could have been affected. Or maybe becoming a father could have some effect etc.

But just saying "ok you need to care more out there" will just not cut it.

[thr3ep01nte4]

Watch on YouTube

Hope Ayton can be better than this. Towns is horrible.

[Duke4life831]

Watch on YouTube

Hope Ayton can be better than this. Towns is horrible.

Damn just really goes to show just how bad is on defense. That was really hard to watch. This also goes to show the hilariously bad low light defensive highlights like you see a lot with Harden dont really show all that much. Its a video like this, that breaks down the average play where you see what poor defense leads to.