DeAndre Ayton

nolang1 · Post #601 » by **nolang1** » Tue May 29, 2018 10:12 pm

D3ko wrote:Every time I see Ayton , I see a Miles Turner & Derrick Favors type of player ?

Good body, great individual skills but quite inconsistent and not productive at all

Could some expert give me reasons to think higher on Ayton?

He averaged 20 points and 11 rebounds as a freshman while being "inconsistent and not productive at all." Ayton's season low in points was 9, which he did twice; Myles Turner scored fewer than 9 points 20 times as a freshman.

MemphisX · Post #602 » by **MemphisX** » Wed May 30, 2018 4:00 pm

People are picking these guys apart. However, just like Doncic overseas and Bagley at Duke, the production from these guys is kind of unprecedented. They are not LeBron/AD/KD level prospects so there will be some holes to find in their game but comparing Ayton to Miles Turner seems ridiculous. Does Turner even compare favorably to Bamba?

Nazrmohamed · Post #603 » by **Nazrmohamed** » Wed May 30, 2018 6:42 pm

nolang1 wrote:
D3ko wrote:Every time I see Ayton , I see a Miles Turner & Derrick Favors type of player ?

Good body, great individual skills but quite inconsistent and not productive at all

Could some expert give me reasons to think higher on Ayton?

He averaged 20 points and 11 rebounds as a freshman while being "inconsistent and not productive at all." Ayton's season low in points was 9, which he did twice; Myles Turner scored fewer than 9 points 20 times as a freshman.

I love it

Dr Positivity · Post #604 » by **Dr Positivity** » Wed May 30, 2018 7:01 pm

MemphisX wrote:People are picking these guys apart. However, just like Doncic overseas and Bagley at Duke, the production from these guys is kind of unprecedented. They are not LeBron/AD/KD level prospects so there will be some holes to find in their game but comparing Ayton to Miles Turner seems ridiculous. Does Turner even compare favorably to Bamba?

Ayton volume scoring/TS is very rare for a big man prospect, but the rest of his game is not. None of rebounding, assists, steals, or blocks is special. For that reason he ranks behind Jackson, Carter, Mikal Bridges, Young and Bamba in BPM among top 10 ranked NCAA prospects

Teams have gotten burned before having tunnel vision with PPG vs other stats for NCAA players. I made the same argument with Fultz last year, of top 10 NCAA guys he ranked 8th in WS/48 and 6th in BPM but because he scored a lot of points he got treated like he was the most dominant of the bunch. To Ayton's credit unlike Fultz he is tied for the lead in WS/48 among top 10 guys. And in the case of Fultz another reason to doubt his volume scoring credentials in college is he had 0 teammates, so bad to go 9-22 on a team with #1 pick. So of course his PPG was going to get inflated.

nolang1 · Post #605 » by **nolang1** » Wed May 30, 2018 7:04 pm

Nazrmohamed wrote:
nolang1 wrote:
D3ko wrote:Every time I see Ayton , I see a Miles Turner & Derrick Favors type of player ?

Good body, great individual skills but quite inconsistent and not productive at all

Could some expert give me reasons to think higher on Ayton?

He averaged 20 points and 11 rebounds as a freshman while being "inconsistent and not productive at all." Ayton's season low in points was 9, which he did twice; Myles Turner scored fewer than 9 points 20 times as a freshman.

I love it

I mean, you can question his defensive acumen but it doesn't take an expert to know that productivity is the least of his concerns.

Post #606 » by **Duke4life831** » Wed May 30, 2018 7:14 pm

nolang1 wrote:
D3ko wrote:Every time I see Ayton , I see a Miles Turner & Derrick Favors type of player ?

Good body, great individual skills but quite inconsistent and not productive at all

Could some expert give me reasons to think higher on Ayton?

He averaged 20 points and 11 rebounds as a freshman while being "inconsistent and not productive at all." Ayton's season low in points was 9, which he did twice; Myles Turner scored fewer than 9 points 20 times as a freshman.

Just to dive a little deeper into this.

Turner and Favors combined (70 games):
20 pt games: 5
10 rb games: 19
20/10 games: 4
20/20 games: 0

Ayton last year (35 games):
20 pt games: 17
10 rb games: 24
20/10 games: 12
20/20 games: 1

Dont get me wrong Ive been one of Ayton's harshest critics when it comes to his motor. But to say the dude was not productive at all, is crazy to me. Ayton and Bagley were 2 of the most productive freshman bigs the NCAA has ever seen.

Post #607 » by **Marcus** » Wed May 30, 2018 11:06 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
nolang1 wrote:
D3ko wrote:Every time I see Ayton , I see a Miles Turner & Derrick Favors type of player ?

Good body, great individual skills but quite inconsistent and not productive at all

Could some expert give me reasons to think higher on Ayton?

He averaged 20 points and 11 rebounds as a freshman while being "inconsistent and not productive at all." Ayton's season low in points was 9, which he did twice; Myles Turner scored fewer than 9 points 20 times as a freshman.

Just to dive a little deeper into this.

Turner and Favors combined (70 games):
20 pt games: 5
10 rb games: 19
20/10 games: 4
20/20 games: 0

Ayton last year (35 games):
20 pt games: 17
10 rb games: 24
20/10 games: 12
20/20 games: 1

Dont get me wrong Ive been one of Ayton's harshest critics when it comes to his motor. But to say the dude was not productive at all, is crazy to me. Ayton and Bagley were 2 of the most productive freshman bigs the NCAA has ever seen.

narrative over facts

Post #608 » by **Duke4life831** » Wed May 30, 2018 11:13 pm

Marcus wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
nolang1 wrote:
He averaged 20 points and 11 rebounds as a freshman while being "inconsistent and not productive at all." Ayton's season low in points was 9, which he did twice; Myles Turner scored fewer than 9 points 20 times as a freshman.

Just to dive a little deeper into this.

Turner and Favors combined (70 games):
20 pt games: 5
10 rb games: 19
20/10 games: 4
20/20 games: 0

Ayton last year (35 games):
20 pt games: 17
10 rb games: 24
20/10 games: 12
20/20 games: 1

Dont get me wrong Ive been one of Ayton's harshest critics when it comes to his motor. But to say the dude was not productive at all, is crazy to me. Ayton and Bagley were 2 of the most productive freshman bigs the NCAA has ever seen.

narrative over facts

Haha that's the thing. If you want to criticize Ayton for his lack of defense or motor, I think there is a lot to backup. Same goes for Bagley's defense and shorter wingspan, legit criticisms. But man you're going to go after production? That's a ballsy claim haha.

JMac1 · Post #609 » by **JMac1** » Wed May 30, 2018 11:25 pm

Hatin on Ayton is what I call it.

MemphisX · Post #610 » by **MemphisX** » Thu May 31, 2018 7:43 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:
MemphisX wrote:People are picking these guys apart. However, just like Doncic overseas and Bagley at Duke, the production from these guys is kind of unprecedented. They are not LeBron/AD/KD level prospects so there will be some holes to find in their game but comparing Ayton to Miles Turner seems ridiculous. Does Turner even compare favorably to Bamba?

Ayton volume scoring/TS is very rare for a big man prospect, but the rest of his game is not. None of rebounding, assists, steals, or blocks is special. For that reason he ranks behind Jackson, Carter, Mikal Bridges, Young and Bamba in BPM among top 10 ranked NCAA prospects

Teams have gotten burned before having tunnel vision with PPG vs other stats for NCAA players. I made the same argument with Fultz last year, of top 10 NCAA guys he ranked 8th in WS/48 and 6th in BPM but because he scored a lot of points he got treated like he was the most dominant of the bunch. To Ayton's credit unlike Fultz he is tied for the lead in WS/48 among top 10 guys. And in the case of Fultz another reason to doubt his volume scoring credentials in college is he had 0 teammates, so bad to go 9-22 on a team with #1 pick. So of course his PPG was going to get inflated.

eh, I am not convinced that BPM or WS/48 is any indicator of future success. Even in combination. Doesn't track as a predictive tool in any way.

I mean, I have WCJ as the best big in the draft for various reasons though. So take that for data. :lol:

Dr Positivity · Post #611 » by **Dr Positivity** » Fri Jun 1, 2018 7:06 am

Could he play PF in the NBA and just have a largely offensive role? He rates a lot better in my system if rated as a PF, compared to college players like Blake, Bosh, Love, LMA where his shotblocking looks more normal and would be expected to score more points which he does. With that said the problem with the "Miller played him at PF and used him to defend the perimeter" excuse is his steal rate is also horrendous, the average for Davis, Draymond, Blake, Bosh, Love, LMA, Milsap, Boozer, Simmons, West their draft year is 1.5 stl/40 and only one guy is under 1 (Love, 0.9), Ayton has 0.7. If you have him as a center he is the worst of any all-star recently, if you have him as a power forward he is the worst at steals of any.

JMac1 · Post #612 » by **JMac1** » Sat Jun 2, 2018 3:13 am

Dr Positivity wrote:Could he play PF in the NBA and just have a largely offensive role? He rates a lot better in my system if rated as a PF, compared to college players like Blake, Bosh, Love, LMA where his shotblocking looks more normal and would be expected to score more points which he does. With that said the problem with the "Miller played him at PF and used him to defend the perimeter" excuse is his steal rate is also horrendous, the average for Davis, Draymond, Blake, Bosh, Love, LMA, Milsap, Boozer, Simmons, West their draft year is 1.5 stl/40 and only one guy is under 1 (Love, 0.9), Ayton has 0.7. If you have him as a center he is the worst of any all-star recently, if you have him as a power forward he is the worst at steals of any.

Next time use the word rationale, then you wouldn't sound so dismissive of information that may contradict your evaluation.

Edit

Excuse: attempt to lessen the blame attaching to (a fault or offense); seek to defend or justify
Rationale: a set of reasons or a logical basis for a course of action or a particular belief.

See the difference?

You could have even used reason: a basis or cause, as for some belief, action, fact, event, a statement presented in justification or explanation of a belief or action

Excuse doesn't sound like you took the explanation serious.

azcatz11 · Post #613 » by **azcatz11** » Sat Jun 2, 2018 3:35 am

I'm judging this by the eye test - he was good last year. It's surprising to see him listed as a #1 overall prospect.

He had his moments but I never once thought he was a generational prospect or anything like that. I can see the potential with the 3 but he never dominated on the defensive end. He's also just kind of stiff. He's nowhere near Embiid type of athlete.

I think he's an empty stats player. Not a fan

JMac1 · Post #614 » by **JMac1** » Sat Jun 2, 2018 5:11 am

azcatz11 wrote:I'm judging this by the eye test - he was good last year. It's surprising to see him listed as a #1 overall prospect.

He had his moments but I never once thought he was a generational prospect or anything like that. I can see the potential with the 3 but he never dominated on the defensive end. He's also just kind of stiff. He's nowhere near Embiid type of athlete.

I think he's an empty stats player. Not a fan

Who should be number 1?
How did he do on offense?
Stiff?
Nowhere near the athlete of Embiid?
Gotta get those eyes checked.

JMac1 · Post #615 » by **JMac1** » Sat Jun 2, 2018 5:14 am

Watch on YouTube

??????

Hsker4Life · Post #616 » by **Hsker4Life** » Sat Jun 2, 2018 5:57 am

azcatz11 wrote:
He's also just kind of stiff. He's nowhere near Embiid type of athlete.

I'm not trying to be rude, but wow.

What you stated, but the complete opposite, is true.

JMac1 · Post #617 » by **JMac1** » Sat Jun 2, 2018 2:20 pm

Hsker4Life wrote:
azcatz11 wrote:
He's also just kind of stiff. He's nowhere near Embiid type of athlete.

I'm not trying to be rude, but wow.

What you stated, but the complete opposite, is true.

That’s why I struggle on these boards......a lot. When certain things are sooo obvious IMO, but someone says the complete opposite, you have to ask yourself, are they blind or just trying to be inflammatory? I always assume the latter. I have too much faith in people’s judgment and intelligence. I’ll just take their word for it from now on and give one shot at educating em like with this video and if that doesn’t work, let it go.

kobe_vs_jordan · Post #618 » by **kobe_vs_jordan** » Sat Jun 2, 2018 3:12 pm

Hsker4Life wrote:
azcatz11 wrote:
He's also just kind of stiff. He's nowhere near Embiid type of athlete.

I'm not trying to be rude, but wow.

What you stated, but the complete opposite, is true.

Ayton is more explosive but he lacks fluidity in most non straight line situations at least defensively.

TKainZero · Post #619 » by **TKainZero** » Sat Jun 2, 2018 3:29 pm

What are the chances he turns into thabbet?

His stats are much better thou...
But there have been franchise level players that have busted out before...

JMac1 · Post #620 » by **JMac1** » Sat Jun 2, 2018 4:30 pm

TKainZero wrote:What are the chances he turns into thabbet?

His stats are much better thou...
But there have been franchise level players that have busted out before...

Why would you ask that question? Shouldn't you compare him to the 7'1 freshmen who averaged 20 and 10 in college and busted in the NBA?

Throwing out an arbitrary name like Thabeet who's game has nothing in common is kind of irrational, no?