Trae Young

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The-Power
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Re: Trae Young 

Post#141 » by The-Power » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:32 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:He's 6th in 2PT% and 4th in 3PT% on his team.

Not sure if that's meaningful or not.

Considering he's the only consitent shot creator on that team and his volume is unlike anybody else's I wouldn't use his teammates as his benchmark. In general it makes much more sense to compare players to other players with a similar role.

In his MVP year, Westbrook's shooting percentages look horrible compared to those of his teammates. Harden currently ranks 9th on his team in 2P% (3rd in 3P%), Curry ranks 4th in 2P% and 7th in 3P%. It's normal for scoring guards, even the superstars.

Still, Harden and Curry are the elite offensive players in the game with LeBron and extremely efficient on high volume. So is Young.

59.7% on 2's is great, better than Duval (who scores on much lower volume and has no outside shot to boost his efficiency) and much better than Sexton. 37.7% on 3's is still solid in terms of percentages and really good considering his almost unprecented volume, and it equals shooting 56.5% on 2's in terms of raw efficiency. Add to this a FTr of 0.507 with his elite FT% (86.3) and he's been one of the most efficient volume scorers in the country with a TS% of 64.4.

Scary thing is that he should be even more efficient considering the number of horrible 3's he's taken thus far. Yes, he's probably a rhythm-player and has to take some of these bad shots to get into a groove – something that might hurt him in the NBA, where his role will be different and his shot selection will be much more scrutinized and consequently punished – but he should and easily could tone it down a notch and shoot 40+% of 3's on what still would be incredibly high volume.

The questions about Young concern the translation of his game – mostly mentally, but also physically and, to some extent, skill-wise. His current production in college is nothing short of marvelous, though.
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Re: Trae Young 

Post#142 » by MUpacersSIC » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:56 pm

I think he should be the first PG off the board in the next draft. If you can shoot and distribute the ball, you have skills NBA teams need. If he doesn't go top 10, I think that will be a huge mistake by a lot of teams. I hope the Pacers trade up for him.
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Re: Trae Young 

Post#143 » by blazeyo » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:20 pm

He is carrying a bunch of scrubs like no other player in the country and it's not even close. Oklahoma is playing like a top 3 ranked team right now and it's all because of him.

He looks like he is toying with teams... He doesn't even take Wichita seriously... he is just stupendously good for college as a freshman.

His passing is extremelllly good and his floor game as a whole is very advanced for a freshman... problem is that his defense is a joke at the moment. He puts very little effort rotating, or staying in front of his man and his reach will be a problem contesting 3's at the next level. I don't know if his defense other than his physical limitation as far as reach goes is just an effort problem at the moment and may be very much fixable.
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Re: Trae Young 

Post#144 » by toussaud » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:21 pm

This is my gripe about tray on he has to have the ball and I don't know if I will be willing to draft a guy who cannot be effective without the ball in his hands it just got good enough to alter your entire offense around him having a ball is he an NBA player yes is he going to be a good NBA player yes is he worth Drafting and changing my entire philosophy on offense I don't think so
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Re: Trae Young 

Post#145 » by Mulhollanddrive » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:01 am

Malik Monk (first 13 games) was 22ppg on 59% from two and 41% from three.
Trae Young (first 9 games) is 28ppg on 57% from two and 37% from three.

What I actually like most about Young is that he averages 8+ assists and 2+ steals which are translatable to NBA.
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Re: Trae Young 

Post#146 » by jcsunsfan » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:10 am

Mulhollanddrive wrote:He's 6th in 2PT% and 4th in 3PT% on his team.

Not sure if that's meaningful or not.

He gets 9 assists per game? He sets up his teammates for quality shots?

29 points and 9 assists per game. That accounts for for 47 points a game.

arbitrary fact. He wears #11 and has taken 11 threes in each of the last 5 games.
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Re: Trae Young 

Post#147 » by Catchall » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:36 am

The appeal of Trae Young is that he picks up defenders as soon as he crosses mid-court. He has gravity that stretches the defense, and he's competent enough to avoid traps and move the ball. My concerns with him are on the defensive side. Physically, yes he's like Tyus Jones or maybe Trey Burke. PGs with limited size/length and limited athleticism don't normally end up playing much of a role. Steph Curry is such an outlier and really emerged when he developed his handle and passing. It makes me nervous.

As for going top 10, I'd be surprised. Top 5 will likely be Doncic, Bagley, Ayton, Porter and Bamba (lets say). Next 5 are likely Jackson, Sexton, Knox, Williams and Mikal Bridges. Then there's Carter, Miles Bridges, Musa, ...
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Re: Trae Young 

Post#148 » by Just_Bullz » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:11 pm

As long as a guard can shoot and distributes the ball, he can survive in the NBA. Young has shown the ability to do both, I see him as top 10.
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Re: Trae Young 

Post#149 » by MC3 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:49 pm

can trae play off ball? if he can he will survive for sure in NBA.
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Re: Trae Young 

Post#150 » by No-Man » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:25 pm

toussaud wrote:This is my gripe about tray on he has to have the ball and I don't know if I will be willing to draft a guy who cannot be effective without the ball in his hands it just got good enough to alter your entire offense around him having a ball is he an NBA player yes is he going to be a good NBA player yes is he worth Drafting and changing my entire philosophy on offense I don't think so

He doesnt play off-ball often due to OU's system but when he does he is **** amazing at it, so man, you gotta kind of focus again on that because nothing stated in your post is remotely close to be true.
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Re: Trae Young 

Post#151 » by doordoor123 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:15 pm

Fischella wrote:
toussaud wrote:This is my gripe about tray on he has to have the ball and I don't know if I will be willing to draft a guy who cannot be effective without the ball in his hands it just got good enough to alter your entire offense around him having a ball is he an NBA player yes is he going to be a good NBA player yes is he worth Drafting and changing my entire philosophy on offense I don't think so

He doesnt play off-ball often due to OU's system but when he does he is **** amazing at it, so man, you gotta kind of focus again on that because nothing stated in your post is remotely close to be true.


Yeah, he’s done it once in a while. The problem is that the team relies on him so much because they don’t have any other good players. I honestly can’t see Young failing in the NBA.
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Re: Trae Young 

Post#152 » by The-Power » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:38 pm

He looks like the aggressive version of Steve Nash out there. The way he controls the pace, always finds a way to get a decent shot off (if he's not pulling the trigger way too early/deep), always finds finishers with a variety of different passes. Not the shooter or off-ball player that Curry is – I mean, who is? – but clearly more advanced as a playmaker and passer at the same age.

In the second half of the second half, he did what Wichita wanted him to do: let him demand the ball and just overload him with players which led to some turnovers and bad shots. He will learn from it I hope.

I can only repeat myself: with him it is about mentality. If he can find a way to be effective off the ball and learn when to be aggressive and when to slow down, and if he can be engaged defensively, then he'll have great success in the NBA. Best offensive player in college basketball and the only potential true offensive anchor I see in this draft besides Doncic. If I don't have a great PG prospect on my team already, I'm taking Young almost regardless of when I pick. He's a special talent, so I sincerely hope he embraces his off-ball potential and good shot-selection once he has more talent around him.

Oh, and is there a current college player more exciting to watch? His creativity and skill-level are amazing.
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Re: Trae Young 

Post#153 » by anthony00 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:46 pm

The-Power wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:He's 6th in 2PT% and 4th in 3PT% on his team.

Not sure if that's meaningful or not.

Considering he's the only consitent shot creator on that team and his volume is unlike anybody else's I wouldn't use his teammates as his benchmark. In general it makes much more sense to compare players to other players with a similar role.

In his MVP year, Westbrook's shooting percentages look horrible compared to those of his teammates. Harden currently ranks 9th on his team in 2P% (3rd in 3P%), Curry ranks 4th in 2P% and 7th in 3P%. It's normal for scoring guards, even the superstars.

Still, Harden and Curry are the elite offensive players in the game with LeBron and extremely efficient on high volume. So is Young.

59.7% on 2's is great, better than Duval (who scores on much lower volume and has no outside shot to boost his efficiency) and much better than Sexton. 37.7% on 3's is still solid in terms of percentages and really good considering his almost unprecented volume, and it equals shooting 56.5% on 2's in terms of raw efficiency. Add to this a FTr of 0.507 with his elite FT% (86.3) and he's been one of the most efficient volume scorers in the country with a TS% of 64.4.

Scary thing is that he should be even more efficient considering the number of horrible 3's he's taken thus far. Yes, he's probably a rhythm-player and has to take some of these bad shots to get into a groove – something that might hurt him in the NBA, where his role will be different and his shot selection will be much more scrutinized and consequently punished – but he should and easily could tone it down a notch and shoot 40+% of 3's on what still would be incredibly high volume.

The questions about Young concern the translation of his game – mostly mentally, but also physically and, to some extent, skill-wise. His current production in college is nothing short of marvelous, though.


In his mvp year harden and russ had near identical numbers
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Re: Trae Young 

Post#154 » by Mulhollanddrive » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:22 pm

My concern about shooting translation is that his go to is often the off the dribble 3 while he struggles to finish at the rim against length.
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Re: Trae Young 

Post#155 » by GimmeDat » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:48 pm

For as rangy and high level his shot is, I actually don't think it's very versatile. He clearly likes the rhythm of dribbling in to his three ball, and he can obviously spot up also, but the way he shoots it I don't think is very conducive to high level off ball shooting.

If you compare his technique to Jamal Murray, for instance, Murray can run off screens or whatever other situation, catch the ball in a variety of situations, and effectively square up and shoot with speed and separation.

Young hasn't been put in that situation much but I don't see it being part of his game based on his form and tendencies. If there's one thing he can be effective at off the ball, it's obviously shooting, but I'm not sure he's off-ball shooting would be as prolific as his on-ball shooting is.
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Re: Trae Young 

Post#156 » by The-Power » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:28 am

Where exactly is the ‘struggling at the rim‘ narrative coming from, by the way? Of course length bothers him to some extent like it's the case for any Guard but he's finishing at a decent rate as far as I can see.

His FG% at the rim is 61.5% (36.1% of his shots). For comparison, Bruce Brown shot 62.3% (47.3%) in 2017 and 58.8 (44.2%) thus far in 2018. Collin Sexton shoots 61.7% (39.5%). De'Aaron Fox shot 64.2% (48.1%), Markelle Fultz 61.6% (25.5%). Not saying he can't or shouldn't improve but I don't see a clear weakness here – he drives into bodies and has some creativity and touch around the rim which leads to decent success there (along with the elite ability to get there in the first place it's pretty valuable).

Agree with GimmeDat on his shooting. If you primarily see him as a shooter in the NBA then this is something to think about more in depth. But given that I believe he's much more than that he doesn't have to develop into Curry 2.0 as a shooter in order to be great – something like Damian Lillard in this regard would be sufficient and that's absolutely in play with him. He can still be a valuable off-ball player without being an elite catch-and-shoot guy after coming off screens.
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Re: Trae Young 

Post#157 » by reanimator » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:24 am

The-Power wrote:His FG% at the rim is 61.5% (36.1% of his shots). For comparison, Bruce Brown shot 62.3% (47.3%) in 2017 and 58.8 (44.2%) thus far in 2018. Collin Sexton shoots 61.7% (39.5%). De'Aaron Fox shot 64.2% (48.1%), Markelle Fultz 61.6% (25.5%). Not saying he can't or shouldn't improve but I don't see a clear weakness here – he drives into bodies and has some creativity and touch around the rim which leads to decent success there (along with the elite ability to get there in the first place it's pretty valuable).


Do you have the HC/Transition splits for FG% at the rim?
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Re: Trae Young 

Post#158 » by doordoor123 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:25 am

GimmeDat wrote:For as rangy and high level his shot is, I actually don't think it's very versatile. He clearly likes the rhythm of dribbling in to his three ball, and he can obviously spot up also, but the way he shoots it I don't think is very conducive to high level off ball shooting.

If you compare his technique to Jamal Murray, for instance, Murray can run off screens or whatever other situation, catch the ball in a variety of situations, and effectively square up and shoot with speed and separation.

Young hasn't been put in that situation much but I don't see it being part of his game based on his form and tendencies. If there's one thing he can be effective at off the ball, it's obviously shooting, but I'm not sure he's off-ball shooting would be as prolific as his on-ball shooting is.


He isn’t shooting off-ball because no one on the team can give him the ball. Without Young Oklahoma is a trash team. He is literally forced to do everything and it’s why he takes bad shots too. Before we declare he can’t take shots off the ball we need to see him on a different team.
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Re: Trae Young 

Post#159 » by The-Power » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:36 am

reanimator wrote:
The-Power wrote:His FG% at the rim is 61.5% (36.1% of his shots). For comparison, Bruce Brown shot 62.3% (47.3%) in 2017 and 58.8 (44.2%) thus far in 2018. Collin Sexton shoots 61.7% (39.5%). De'Aaron Fox shot 64.2% (48.1%), Markelle Fultz 61.6% (25.5%). Not saying he can't or shouldn't improve but I don't see a clear weakness here – he drives into bodies and has some creativity and touch around the rim which leads to decent success there (along with the elite ability to get there in the first place it's pretty valuable).


Do you have the HC/Transition splits for FG% at the rim?

Unfortunately not, just what hoop-math.com provides.
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Re: Trae Young 

Post#160 » by No-Man » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:54 am

I do not agree with you guys on the shooting, the preparation off-ball and the way he gets to the ball, quickness of execution, like whenever his feet are set and he is shooting it, it's going in, he can absolutely play off-ball and be a threat there, I am buying his shot wholeheartedly when it comes to off-ball actions and he has shown that he can shoot it off-balance too, so that should translate fine to shooting off-screens or on the move too

Cole Zwicker wrote about this at The Stepien, but honestly I had those thoughts before and I talked to Cole about it before he wrote the piece, there aren't many instances where he has been off-ball but if you can check those out, you'd see how good he is as a shooter there

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