Luka Doncic part II

[Mirotic12]

For those who followed Tomas Satoransky in Europe, how would you compare him to Doncic?

Doncic is better by several country miles. The only things Satoransky has ever had going for him is he's very athletic and he's a good ball handler. There is really nothing else he offers. I guess he's OK at defense.

He's not even in the same discussion with someone like Doncic.

He had a good game today, tomorrow they're playing Barcelona in the finals, should be a really good game
I wonder if he is going to step up like he usualy does in big games.

Well, he failed in pretty much all of the big games last season.

[leolozon]

My bad. I didn't know I was talking with someone who's confusing team performance and player performance. I try not to argue with people who can't differentiate a player from a team.

Yea it is your bad? Why? Because Rubio left a bottom dweller team thats now in the playoffs. Rubio joined a playoff team thats now out. T Wolves we can say Butler okay, but Jazz? Mitchell is doing so much oh what Hayward did, so why is that team out? Yea, Rubio

Jazz will probably make the playoffs after a rough start...

The guy can't even realize that the Jazz have lost one of their 2 stars. He thinks rookie Mitchell is as impactful as Hayward was last year. He can't even realize that Gobert has missed games, and that they are 19-13 when he plays, which is very close to the same winning percentage as last year.

He also doesn't realize that Rubio replaced Hill who was an above average player last year. So even if the Jazz took a step back with Rubio, it wouldn't even mean that Rubio was a bad player. Just that he isn't as effective as Hill was last year.

For his sake, I sincerely hope that he's a troll.

[Bob8]

For those who followed Tomas Satoransky in Europe, how would you compare him to Doncic?

Doncic is better by several country miles. The only things Satoransky has ever had going for him is he's very athletic and he's a good ball handler. There is really nothing else he offers. I guess he's OK at defense.

He's not even in the same discussion with someone like Doncic.

He had a good game today, tomorrow they're playing Barcelona in the finals, should be a really good game
I wonder if he is going to step up like he usualy does in big games.

Well, he failed in pretty much all of the big games last season.

That’s not exactly the truth. He was bad in F4 and final of Acb league. But he was was very good in last years Copa del Rey. The most important player for the turnaround in semis against Baskonia. And he was incredible good in Eurobasket. Especially in knockout phase.

[UcanUwill]

He had a good game today, tomorrow they're playing Barcelona in the finals, should be a really good game
I wonder if he is going to step up like he usualy does in big games.

What time is it?

[UcanUwill]

For those who followed Tomas Satoransky in Europe, how would you compare him to Doncic?

Satoransky had very good vertical leap, but it barely showed up in games honestly. Doncic is much much better player, Satoransky was expendable starter in Spain, replaceable, Doncic is a big star.

[narcolepsy]

Finals are today at 18:30 CET

[arkuo]

85 pages of going back and fourth on whether Luka will make it big in the NBA and Euro fans engaging in combat to whoever says otherwise says Luka represents more than just basketball to a lot of Europeans. It's more of the sociological aspect now and what he represents coming from the other side of the pond.

His supporters can say casual NBA fans can't predict his ceiling at age 18 or 19. However these same fans can predict the opposite thing for him? Might as well give me the winning lottery tickets for tomorrow. And with the sociological aspect in play, there's no arguing in that anymore. It's like politics. There will be supporters and naysayers from both ends. And either way he goes, it will take years to say if he's good for it or not. By then this thread would be 8,000 pages long. lol Just my two cents.

[big-shot-ROB]

85 pages of going back and fourth on whether Luka will make it big in the NBA and Euro fans engaging in combat to whoever says otherwise says Luka represents more than just basketball to a lot of Europeans. It's more of the sociological aspect now and what he represents coming from the other side of the pond.

His supporters can say casual NBA fans can't predict his ceiling at age 18 or 19. However these same fans can predict the opposite thing for him? Might as well give me the winning lottery tickets for tomorrow. And with the sociological aspect in play, there's no arguing in that anymore. It's like politics. There will be supporters and naysayers from both ends. And either way he goes, it will take years to say if he's good for it or not. By then this thread would be 8,000 pages long. lol Just my two cents.

I hope he becomes good from the start or this will be crazy. 7 years until he reaches 25-26 and we can rule him off if he does not become what he is supposed to be.

Yeah, that is going to be a endless thread. Might as well make it an sticky one lol.

[burek3]

85 pages of going back and fourth on whether Luka will make it big in the NBA and Euro fans engaging in combat to whoever says otherwise says Luka represents more than just basketball to a lot of Europeans. It's more of the sociological aspect now and what he represents coming from the other side of the pond.

His supporters can say casual NBA fans can't predict his ceiling at age 18 or 19. However these same fans can predict the opposite thing for him? Might as well give me the winning lottery tickets for tomorrow. And with the sociological aspect in play, there's no arguing in that anymore. It's like politics. There will be supporters and naysayers from both ends. And either way he goes, it will take years to say if he's good for it or not. By then this thread would be 8,000 pages long. lol Just my two cents.

But it's good entertainment while he's not playing, so it's something? Why do we do whatever we do?

[AJ3]

85 pages of going back and fourth on whether Luka will make it big in the NBA and Euro fans engaging in combat to whoever says otherwise says Luka represents more than just basketball to a lot of Europeans. It's more of the sociological aspect now and what he represents coming from the other side of the pond.

His supporters can say casual NBA fans can't predict his ceiling at age 18 or 19. However these same fans can predict the opposite thing for him? Might as well give me the winning lottery tickets for tomorrow. And with the sociological aspect in play, there's no arguing in that anymore. It's like politics. There will be supporters and naysayers from both ends. And either way he goes, it will take years to say if he's good for it or not. By then this thread would be 8,000 pages long. lol Just my two cents.

This whole forum revolves around speculation and projection based on what the player is doing right now, Luka has given everyone a good reason to become a fan of his, his production is unprecedented. There is a lot of different people who have access to these forums, some of them know more than others about basketball, it's up to the people who have more knowledge on basketball matters to step up and steer the conversation in the right direction.

The reason Luka Doncic is so divisive is not because of his skin color or ethnicity or anything else, it's because of the neverending argument people in this community have when projecting talent - SKILL or ATHLETICISM ? It's a lot easier to imagine somebody who is super athletic to get more skillfull and build on that than vice-versa. But every once in a while, there comes a player who does the opposite, they rely on their skill first and athleticism second and it's a lot harder to give them credit because it's not the prototype that you are used to seeing.

I Will be honest, i was not a fan of basketball before the eurobasket and i'm sure many Will condemn me for it and call me whatever. I'm not afraid to say it, Luka made me a fan of basketball, the same way Ronaldinho made me a fan of football. I believe that any one player that can impact others in a positive way and promote the sport is a great player in itself, i'm sure that the same way Drazen Petrovic inspired a generation of players in Yugoslavia that Doncic/Dragic are doing for Slovenia.

[realEAST]

If we are speaking of cultural reasons, I'd say that intensity of rejection that is manifested among big part of USA based fans who dismiss Doncic without even trying to actually develop a reasonable argument is in big part result of machism inherent and deeply rooted in American culture, and consequently, urge to dominate, so much that they can't simply aknowladge someone being better than them in "their" sport. Irrationality that is obvious in their argumentation shows that quite clearly.

[daoneandonly]

Yea it is your bad? Why? Because Rubio left a bottom dweller team thats now in the playoffs. Rubio joined a playoff team thats now out. T Wolves we can say Butler okay, but Jazz? Mitchell is doing so much oh what Hayward did, so why is that team out? Yea, Rubio

Jazz will probably make the playoffs after a rough start...

The guy can't even realize that the Jazz have lost one of their 2 stars. He thinks rookie Mitchell is as impactful as Hayward was last year. He can't even realize that Gobert has missed games, and that they are 19-13 when he plays, which is very close to the same winning percentage as last year.

He also doesn't realize that Rubio replaced Hill who was an above average player last year. So even if the Jazz took a step back with Rubio, it wouldn't even mean that Rubio was a bad player. Just that he isn't as effective as Hill was last year.

For his sake, I sincerely hope that he's a troll.

And this guy cant realize a guy who was overhyped just like Luca and was a top lottery pick has yet to make the playoffs as a starting PG. In fact as soon as the team with the huge PO drought dumps him, they are not only in, but vying for HCA.

[Alatan]

...
The reason Luka Doncic is so divisive is not because of his skin color or ethnicity or anything else, it's because of the neverending argument people in this community have when projecting talent - SKILL or ATHLETICISM ? It's a lot easier to imagine somebody who is super athletic to get more skillfull and build on that than vice-versa. But every once in a while, there comes a player who does the opposite, they rely on their skill first and athleticism second and it's a lot harder to give them credit because it's not the prototype that you are used to seeing.
...

In truth it never is SKILL or ATHLETICISM its skill AND athleticism. Some guys have the talent to become skilled and they only show glimpses of it but i dont think that a player that looks lost on the court or with the ball in his hands can become skilled enough to become a star. A lot of people expect a guy that has never shown any signs of skill to just "learn the game". It rarely, RARELY happens. Also many expect that a kid becomes more athletic when he joins the NBA that almost NEVER happens. The only guys who become more athletic once they join the NBA are skinny guys like Ingram, KD, Giannis, AD or out of shape guys like Jokic or Mark Gasoll etc. Im not saying players dont improve because they do but they dont improve so vastly as many expect.

[AJ3]

Jazz will probably make the playoffs after a rough start...

The guy can't even realize that the Jazz have lost one of their 2 stars. He thinks rookie Mitchell is as impactful as Hayward was last year. He can't even realize that Gobert has missed games, and that they are 19-13 when he plays, which is very close to the same winning percentage as last year.

He also doesn't realize that Rubio replaced Hill who was an above average player last year. So even if the Jazz took a step back with Rubio, it wouldn't even mean that Rubio was a bad player. Just that he isn't as effective as Hill was last year.

For his sake, I sincerely hope that he's a troll.

And this guy cant realize a guy who was overhyped just like Luca and was a top lottery pick has yet to make the playoffs as a starting PG. In fact as soon as the team with the huge PO drought dumps him, they are not only in, but vying for HCA.

This is the difference tho, Luka is not overhyped by any means. His production warrants the hype, it's just that simple. The scouts who watched him play said he's great, his impact is undeniable, what he does is unprecedented. If anything Rubio was overhyped compared to Luka, yet you put them in the same box just because they play in the same league and they're both from Europe. Why haven't you compared Luka to any of the American prospects, is it becaues he is not black?

[narcolepsy]

And this guy cant realize a guy who was overhyped just like Luca and was a top lottery pick has yet to make the playoffs as a starting PG. In fact as soon as the team with the huge PO drought dumps him, they are not only in, but vying for HCA.

Is Boogie a scrub because he's never played in playoffs? Such a ridiculous argument.

And it's Luka, with a K. Just shows how much you know about him.

[daoneandonly]

And this guy cant realize a guy who was overhyped just like Luca and was a top lottery pick has yet to make the playoffs as a starting PG. In fact as soon as the team with the huge PO drought dumps him, they are not only in, but vying for HCA.

Is Boogie a scrub because he's never played in playoffs? Such a ridiculous argument.

And it's Luka, with a K. Just shows how much you know about him.

He's a C+ player, so he's Luca. Yea Boogie is an empty stat king, but heck, at least he gets stats. Rubio cant even get that right.

[arkuo]

If we are speaking of cultural reasons, I'd say that intensity of rejection that is manifested among big part of USA based fans who dismiss Doncic without even trying to actually develop a reasonable argument is in big part result of machism inherent and deeply rooted in American culture, and consequently, urge to dominate, so much that they can't simply aknowladge someone being better than them in "their" sport. Irrationality that is obvious in their argumentation shows that quite clearly.

Agreed. Im not American nor do I speak in behalf of them. But objectively speaking, at the end of the day, it is a league in the United States. In their house, so to speak. Im sure Mr Doncic would like to stay away as far as possible from a league full of "machism that's deepy rooted" in the league as you would put it. Like I said, their house, their rules.

It would be the same way when an 18 year old American would be hyped to be compared to Messi or Ronaldo when they were 18. They would riot in the streets of Barcelona and Madrid, I assume. Potato-potato, my friend. Just my two cents.

[AJ3]

If we are speaking of cultural reasons, I'd say that intensity of rejection that is manifested among big part of USA based fans who dismiss Doncic without even trying to actually develop a reasonable argument is in big part result of machism inherent and deeply rooted in American culture, and consequently, urge to dominate, so much that they can't simply aknowladge someone being better than them in "their" sport. Irrationality that is obvious in their argumentation shows that quite clearly.

Agreed. Im not American nor do I speak in behalf of them. But objectively speaking, at the end of the day, it is a league in the United States. In their house, so to speak. Im sure Mr Doncic would like to stay away as far as possible from a league full of "machism that's deepy rooted" in the league as you would put it. Like I said, their house, their rules.

It would be the same way when an 18 year old American would be hyped to be compared to Messi or Ronaldo when they were 18. They would riot in the streets of Barcelona and Madrid, I assume. Potato-potato, my friend. Just my two cents.

For example, if the champions league had a draft every year, maybe people would be competitive over which players go #1 etc, but because that doesn't really exist in football i don't think your anecdote Works.

The draft does create a rift between fans, when it should really be a celebration of talent and future promise. It takes us back to when we were kids and nobody would pick us on their team on the playground and we get salty cause Johnny was #1 even tho he wasn't really that good and you were chubby and slow and got picked last as the goalie.

NBA is more or less a league of black men and any white guy is an anomaly and definitely has to work a lot harder to get recognition.

[Roddy B for 3]

It would be sick if someone made a Luka Doncic vs NBA players video and showed every play he had with an NBAer(ex; Hezonja this summer, Diaw in league play and maybe he battled Kristaps or Don Mitchell in some youth tournament). We would have a 100% view of his abilities then.

[UcanUwill]

And this guy cant realize a guy who was overhyped just like Luca and was a top lottery pick has yet to make the playoffs as a starting PG. In fact as soon as the team with the huge PO drought dumps him, they are not only in, but vying for HCA.

Rubio was insane good prospect,but he never improved past his 18 birthday and he also blew his knee during his rookie year. Dude is rare case of early bloomer who peaked in his teens

Anyway, Rubio was very different prospect. He was defensive savant with bad stats but insane intangibles on the court. He was never putting stats, guy was hyped for different reasons. Last year in the Euroleague at age 20/21 :

6.5 ppg. (31.1 FG%), 3.5 apg, 1,6 spg in 22.44 minutes

Doncic however his being hyped for his offensive potential, ability to control the game and put up some stats too. Luka's stats at age 18 now are :

17.9 ppg (47,8 FG%), 4,5 apg, 5,5 rpg in 26.05 minutes

What have Doncic and RUbio have in common? Nothing.