Let's talk about the 2014 draft class.

Jazzfan12 · Post #1 » by **Jazzfan12** » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:28 pm

Andrew Wiggins: Came into the league similarly to DeMar DeRozan as being elite at jumping without much skill or BBIQ... Unlike DeRozan, Wiggins doesn't seem to have improved at all in the NBA. Wiggins' numbers in year 1 and year 4 are exactly the same.

Jabari Parker: Became a great athlete after the first knee surgery, but we'll have to see how his body looks after the second major knee surgery.

Joel Embiid: Looks like the future MVP when healthy but has gone through two major foot injuries and a semi important knee and back injury.

Aaron Gordon: Has gotten pretty good it seems.

Dante Exum: Has basically never played healthy basketball outside of his rookie season when he was bad. Doesn't seem to have the skill level to be a PG, but as a scorer he crumbles at contact in the paint and he has made less than five (I'm not joking) contested off the dribble jumpers in his NBA career.

Marcus Smart: One of the best defenders in the league and probably the worst shooter in the NBA relative to their confidence.

Julius Randle: Massively undersized center who is producing good offensive numbers this year, but is probably just a bench player because of terrible defense?

Nik Staukas: Not a bad shooter at all but struggling to get minutes on a really bad Brooklyn team.

Noah Vonleh: Good defensive rebounder who has been unable to do anything else or get minutes in general.

Elfrid Payton: Good numbers, but considered to be one of the absolute worst defenders in the NBA.

Doug McDermott: Seems like just a normal bench player

Dario Saric: Having a great second year with Philly, we'll see if his great shooting continues.

Zach LaVine: Elite athlete with a questionable but improving feel for the game.

TJ Warren: Not very good at too much else, but legendary touch around the basket.

Those are just general observations about the players that I hope aren't too controversial. What are your thoughts on the 2014 lottery class?

(We also have Jokic, Capela, and Harris later on in the draft class and some other good players)

Djh7475 · Post #2 » by **Djh7475** » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:06 pm

Injuries have hurt the perception of this draft class a ton. Embiid and Parker are special on the floor (with Embiid obviously being a few tiers above), but their injury history makes them impossible to trust. Wiggins is a legit volume scorer who gets wayyyyy too much hate simply because he got paid. Zach Lavine is oddly similar to Wiggins, and he too will soon get bashed for taking the contract he’s worked his whole life for.

AG and Julius Randle took time to come on, but they are both trending in the right direction. Players are developing slower nowadays, so the fact that they are trending up is all you want to see. Stauskas, Vonleh, and McDermott all seem like fringe end of rotation guys who could be out of the league in a few years without improvement. Elfrid looks like a good backup PG in this league or a low-end starter. I love Warren, but it sucks that his 3 point shooting regressed because he was really showing signs of becoming a #2ish scoring option who could start. With the regressing 3 pointer and complete lack of impact outside of scoring, I see him as a long-time super sub.

I’m not too high on Saric, but he’s a well-established fringe starter/high end 3rd big. I don’t think his ceiling is much higher that what he’s already providing (despite his youth), but his high floor makes him perfect for the 76ers. As a Celtics fan who does NOT have a love/hate relationship with Smart (which is seemingly rare - he’s one of my favorite players in the league), he’s one of the most difficult youngsters in the league to quantify. People routinely mention him as a great defender/poor offensive player, and that’s a fair short-verse summation of his game. However, his energy, motor, leadership, clutch gene, and intangibles are all elite as well.

Obviously those things are all wishy-washy feel-good terms that are completely objective, but the Celtics have a completely different feel/energy without him. He’s not even one the top 5-7 players in terms of talent, but somehow he’s the most irreplaceable player on the roster. It may sound hyperbolic, but he’s got the best motor of any player I’ve ever watched. I’ve only been a diehard NBA fan for 6-7 years so take that for what it’s worth, but he reminds me of the guard version of Dennis Rodman.

Incapable of playing at less than 110%, his energy is infectious and his mentality is franchise-identity defining. The Celtics have a gritty, hard-working, tough-nosed, defensive identity that goes back to the years of Bird/McHale, but Smart is the main reason that identity has remained in tact. KG seemingly handed off the torch to Smart in that regard, and while I expect most would see him as a disappointing #6 pick (although with the weakness of the draft class with the best players coming late, maybe not), I can’t stomach the idea of seeing him in another jersey.

Oddly, the 3 guys you mentioned as a footnote are my 3 favorite players from the class (other than Smart - but I am an unabashed Celtics homer and realize than every team in the NBA would take those 3 over him). Harris is already a surefire starting guard whose floor is a high end 3&D rotation player, and I think he can evolve into a top perimeter defender/#2 option if developed properly which is absurdly valuable. Jokic is already a star which is wild because physically/athletically he’s outmatched every night.

If Denver can get him to spend the entire offseason on his body, I think he’s one of the rare players that could drastically improve his athleticism since he’s currently built like a 7’-0” 5th grader who has yet to shed his baby fat. Capela is a guy I covered for the Celtics pre-draft. His advanced stats overseas were through the roof, and his measureables were similarly off the charts. He’s turned into precisely what I expected Nerlens Noel to become: a super mobile, uber long/athletic big that plays to his strengths.

nolang1 · Post #3 » by **nolang1** » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:32 pm

Got overrated going in due to how unimpressive the crop of college players in the previous draft was. I had Wiggins/injured Embiid 1a/1b and wasn't extremely high on the others towards the top when all year the top 7 were largely discussed as potential franchise-changing talents, and even Wiggins was someone I thought would be more like Carmelo instead of LeBron/KD in terms of overall impact.

This is basically the draft that got Sam Hinkie fired, and it turns out he got by far the best player at #3 and then got a future first-round pick to trade down from 10 to 12 and select the best player chosen from 8-18.

At the same time the one-and-done players are now 22-23, and there are plenty of current NBA All-Stars who were still bad at that age.

mojo13 · Post #4 » by **mojo13** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:21 pm

To the OP - if you compare Wiggins and DeRozan at the same ages they are similar, with Wiggins having a meaningful edge in most areas.
https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Andrew-Wiggins/Comparison/24682/DeMar-DeRozan/1605?force_min_age=19&force_max_age=22

DeRozan was a quite a bit of a late bloomer.

rumdiary · Post #5 » by **rumdiary** » Thu Mar 1, 2018 11:23 pm

Wiggins - underrated right now in my opinion. It's a bit of a circlejerk to hate on him. At age 21 he averaged 23.6ppg and that alone is the making of an elite player. You surround 21 year old Kobe Bryant (22.5ppg) with KAT and Butler and see if he keeps it up. Speaking of Kobe though, if Wiggins has a killer instinct he's yet to show it, and the minuscule rebound/assist numbers are weird.

Jabari - I've watched a few Bucks games since he came back from injury, once his minutes return he's going to be just as good as he was before the injury imho. The Bucks really look to Jabari on offense when he's on the court, almost as much as Giannis.

Embiid - best big-man in the league, might even be Top 10 player already

Catchall · Post #6 » by **Catchall** » Fri Mar 2, 2018 3:46 am

Exum is supposed to make a return this season. The Jazz still believe in him, apparently, based on his last summer league and pre-season before TJ Warren landed on his shoulder.

Deivork · Post #7 » by **Deivork** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:06 pm

To me it looks like a hell of a draft class

NoZoLakers · Post #8 » by **NoZoLakers** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:05 pm

op that is a terrible perspective on randle, he was drafted as pf, he plays SMALL ball C. A bench player? wtf, i like to see what bench bigs can do what randle does n hes been la best big defending guards on perimiter because la switches everything

kuclas · Post #9 » by **kuclas** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:58 am

I always wonder if embiid never injured. Lebron came back to Cleveland in 2014. I don’t think Lebron ever asks for Wiggins to be traded (Lebron obviously left Wiggins out of his I’m coming home article)

Embiid, Lebron, Kyrie on the same team. That team would have given the rest of the nba nightmares. Just an unstoppable lineup even golden state would be a decided underdog against the cavaliers.

kuclas · Post #10 » by **kuclas** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:00 pm

BallnIngram wrote:op that is a terrible perspective on randle, he was drafted as pf, he plays SMALL ball C. A bench player? wtf, i like to see what bench bigs can do what randle does n hes been la best big defending guards on perimiter because la switches everything

Randle probably ends up like a Carlos boozer type of player. Good but not great and overpaid. Just don’t think the lakers will pay him and let him walk.

jonjames · Post #11 » by **jonjames** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:34 pm

Randle is underrated here..he just might be the 2nd or 3rd best player from this draft when its all said and done which is quite suprising given all the hoopla surrounding wiggins and parker coming intocthe draft. Hes inproved his game every single year for the lakers and just caught himself in a bad situation dealing with his injury rookie year and then tryign to figure out his role with the lineups constantly being shuffled. Hes always been known for his bullyball style and ability to handle for player of his size. but his combination of skill athelticism and intangibles makes him a valuable player for any team despite his less than ideal size for his position. He has the energy, motor, toughness of a garbage man role player but skillset of an all star player ala draymond green..he fits the modern day trending mold of postionless basketball players.

eminence · Post #12 » by **eminence** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:46 pm

jonjames wrote:Randle is underrated here..he just might be the 2nd or 3rd best player from this draft when its all said and done which is quite suprising given all the hoopla surrounding wiggins and parker coming intocthe draft. Hes inproved his game every single year for the lakers and just caught himself in a bad situation dealing with his injury rookie year and then tryign to figure out his role with the lineups constantly being shuffled. Hes always been known for his bullyball style and ability to handle for player of his size. but his combination of skill athelticism and intangibles makes him a valuable player for any team despite his less than ideal size for his position. He has the energy, motor, toughness of a garbage man role player but skillset of an all star player ala draymond green..he fits the modern day trending mold of postionless basketball players.

Almost 0% Chance he's top two over Embiid/Jokic. Maybe still in contention for 3rd, but plenty of competition.

NoZoLakers · Post #13 » by **NoZoLakers** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:11 pm

kuclas wrote:
BallnIngram wrote:op that is a terrible perspective on randle, he was drafted as pf, he plays SMALL ball C. A bench player? wtf, i like to see what bench bigs can do what randle does n hes been la best big defending guards on perimiter because la switches everything

Randle probably ends up like a Carlos boozer type of player. Good but not great and overpaid. Just don’t think the lakers will pay him and let him walk.

Maybe in terms of defense he ends his career like boozer but they play totally different on offense. Randle is more like Zbo but with more physicality n he certainly not a black hole on offense either

big-shot-ROB · Post #14 » by **big-shot-ROB** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:52 pm

I think raw box score numbers and the spotlight of playing in LA might be overrating Randle a little bit.

He is good, he has improved, he will be a nice player, but do not ever put him in the same sentence as Draymong Green.

He is the 8th-9th best player out of this draft, which, after all, might produce a high number of solid starters and some all-star appereances.

If I has to rank it, it'd probably go:

Embiid - Top 10 player already when healthy
Jokic - How does he do it?
Wiggins - Hate of his contract is starting to underrate him.
Gordon - Him and Parker are close
Parker - Would be 3rd if not for injuries imho
Capela - The Rockets are not trading him even for guys over him.
Smart - After Embiid and Jokic in winning impact. He can't shoot or finish, but he can run an offense. He is elite at intangibles, hustle, defense, ..
Harris - Did not remember he is THAT young
Randle - Has gained mobility and has found a game that suits the era. Still question how much more impactful he can be to winning basketball

NoZoLakers · Post #15 » by **NoZoLakers** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:09 pm

big-shot-ROB wrote:I think raw box score numbers and the spotlight of playing in LA might be overrating Randle a little bit.

He is good, he has improved, he will be a nice player, but do not ever put him in the same sentence as Draymong Green.

He is the 8th-9th best player out of this draft, which, after all, might produce a high number of solid starters and some all-star appereances.

If I has to rank it, it'd probably go:

Embiid - Top 10 player already when healthy
Jokic - How does he do it?
Wiggins - Hate of his contract is starting to underrate him.
Gordon - Him and Parker are close
Parker - Would be 3rd if not for injuries imho
Capela - The Rockets are not trading him even for guys over him.
Smart - After Embiid and Jokic in winning impact. He can't shoot or finish, but he can run an offense. He is elite at intangibles, hustle, defense, ..
Harris - Did not remember he is THAT young
Randle - Has gained mobility and has found a game that suits the era. Still question how much more impactful he can be to winning basketball

Who brought up green besides you? And Green is a totally different player/role compared to randle, i like to see green get featured offensively and see what kind of efficency lvl hes at when not surrounded by the likes of klay/steph

ItsThatEasy · Post #16 » by **ItsThatEasy** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:14 pm

Stop reading once Randle was called a Center who belongs on the bench.

big-shot-ROB · Post #17 » by **big-shot-ROB** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:36 pm

jonjames wrote:Randle is underrated here..he just might be the 2nd or 3rd best player from this draft.

He has the energy, motor, toughness of a garbage man role player but skillset of an all star player ala draymond green..he fits the modern day trending mold of postionless basketball players.

erudite23 · Post #18 » by **erudite23** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:55 pm

This class was anointed as the Next Great Draft a full two years before it happened. Funny how that never seems to work out.

Wiggins is a big part of why it looks so lackluster. If he had become a mega-star everything would look different. Then you'd have him and Embiid plus Parker who looks like he'll be quite good if he can stay healthy.

I never really was too high on the rest of the class after those top 3. I didn't think Smart would good enough offensively for his great defensive potential to matter that much. Gordon was a disappointment in college and hasn't been much better in the pros. Exum was an unknown then and is still one as he approaches the end of his rookie contract. Vonleh made a run at the top 5 before falling back down the board--good microcosm of his career.

Just not that much to be excited out outside of the top 3 which is dominated by injuries and the failure of Wiggins to live up to his promise.

NoZoLakers · Post #19 » by **NoZoLakers** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:19 pm

big-shot-ROB wrote:
jonjames wrote:Randle is underrated here..he just might be the 2nd or 3rd best player from this draft.

He has the energy, motor, toughness of a garbage man role player but skillset of an all star player ala draymond green..he fits the modern day trending mold of postionless basketball players.

Well guess it's how you interpret that. ...i didnt see it as him saying hes the next green, just that hes doing the small stuff that otherels wont want to do like green