Cameron Reddish

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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#421 » by yoyoboy » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:53 pm

If his issues from this past year are partly explained by muscle imbalance/issues (which I’m not sure I buy) then the Cavs should take him. Plus, the Cleveland Clinic is phenomenal with that kind of stuff.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#422 » by clyde21 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:50 am

check out how Zion talks about Cam here

https://youtu.be/R6rIXNY0P10?t=400
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#423 » by Coeur » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:21 am

I think he’s going 4-6
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#424 » by HeadtopChunes » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:31 am

Read on Twitter
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Read on Twitter
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Read on Twitter
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Read on Twitter
?s=21
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#425 » by King Ken » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:02 am

I think he will be a superstar in Atlanta.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#426 » by Saints14 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:48 pm

HeadtopChunes wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21


Read on Twitter
?s=21

Read on Twitter
?s=21


Read on Twitter
?s=21


Are these fixable flaws?
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#427 » by King Ken » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:03 am

Saints14 wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21


Read on Twitter
?s=21

Read on Twitter
?s=21


Read on Twitter
?s=21


Are these fixable flaws?

Not easily. Won't be as much of an issue with NBA spacing much less Hawks spacing. The bigger thing to look for is his first step. If that's not there, slashing probably won't be.

The low release point is easily fixable.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#428 » by Stillwater » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:20 am

King Ken wrote:I think he will be a superstar in Atlanta.

i hope he is,but just cannot see how considering he needs the ball and to create for himself to be effective on a roster with Young handling creation duty where Reddish is a catch a shoot wing that is probablt just as disinterested in that role as in college.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#429 » by King Ken » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:25 am

Stillwater wrote:
King Ken wrote:I think he will be a superstar in Atlanta.

i hope he is,but just cannot see how considering he needs the ball and to create for himself to be effective on a roster with Young handling creation duty where Reddish is a catch a shoot wing that is probablt just as disinterested in that role as in college.

Our system allows both wings to create, not just Trae. We run a heavy screen and PnR system where we have multiple handlers that can run the show. This takes pressure off of Trae and we want to develop his off the ball game as well. The reason why Prince is gone is because he couldn't do that effectively even if he was a high end catch and shoot guy. That and his defense just wasn't effective and that's a no-no since Trae and John aren't world defensive beaters.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#430 » by Nazrmohamed » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:05 pm

King Ken wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
King Ken wrote:I think he will be a superstar in Atlanta.

i hope he is,but just cannot see how considering he needs the ball and to create for himself to be effective on a roster with Young handling creation duty where Reddish is a catch a shoot wing that is probablt just as disinterested in that role as in college.

Our system allows both wings to create, not just Trae. We run a heavy screen and PnR system where we have multiple handlers that can run the show. This takes pressure off of Trae and we want to develop his off the ball game as well. The reason why Prince is gone is because he couldn't do that effectively even if he was a high end catch and shoot guy. That and his defense just wasn't effective and that's a no-no since Trae and John aren't world defensive beaters.


I'm actually so happy for you King Ken. This was the player you wanted all along and you got him. But not only that you got him at a spot where he could be the steal of this draft. Your first pick is arguably a reach but considering the best players there was a PG and a SG you didn't care for it made sense to me. This was more of a draft for need pick than a potential pick but hey, getting a bonafide defensive stud who also shoots well makes so much sense for Atlanta.

As a knick fan I'm happy with my pick but overall when you look at where Atlanta was last year, how they play, who stood out I think Atl had the best OVERALL draft. Or at least that's how I'd imagine it from your perspective. Amirite?
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#431 » by Stillwater » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:01 pm

Nazrmohamed wrote:
King Ken wrote:
Stillwater wrote:i hope he is,but just cannot see how considering he needs the ball and to create for himself to be effective on a roster with Young handling creation duty where Reddish is a catch a shoot wing that is probablt just as disinterested in that role as in college.

Our system allows both wings to create, not just Trae. We run a heavy screen and PnR system where we have multiple handlers that can run the show. This takes pressure off of Trae and we want to develop his off the ball game as well. The reason why Prince is gone is because he couldn't do that effectively even if he was a high end catch and shoot guy. That and his defense just wasn't effective and that's a no-no since Trae and John aren't world defensive beaters.


I'm actually so happy for you King Ken. This was the player you wanted all along and you got him. But not only that you got him at a spot where he could be the steal of this draft. Your first pick is arguably a reach but considering the best players there was a PG and a SG you didn't care for it made sense to me. This was more of a draft for need pick than a potential pick but hey, getting a bonafide defensive stud who also shoots well makes so much sense for Atlanta.

As a knick fan I'm happy with my pick but overall when you look at where Atlanta was last year, how they play, who stood out I think Atl had the best OVERALL draft. Or at least that's how I'd imagine it from your perspective. Amirite?

Reddish living up to his pre college expectations to me is unlikely but if he does in time would have to be mostly due to his core muscle issue was the root problem. Any reason besides that and I think 10th was an overpay.
I don't blame ATL for taking the gamble, but I would have doubled down on defense and took Langford who's shooting woes were obviously from the injury.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#432 » by King Ken » Sun Sep 1, 2019 5:30 am

I am exceptionally high on Reddish as mentioned throughout the thread due to his talent, optimal fit with the Hawks and obvious gifts.

His best trait is his high end 3pt variance with Tyler Herro. He can do every type of 3pt shot as well as shoot it from elite range.

His 2nd best trait is his scoring mentality and 3pt volume especially in space.

He reminds me of Jamal Crawford in terms of elite space scoring and how he gets to spots. Also how he struggles v. set defenses and finishing in traffic.

Reminds me of Jodie Meeks as he is an one prong movement shooter who is a rhythm shooter.

Reminds me physically of T-Mac in terms of body type, fluidity and stride length. Body is made for the NBA.

Athleticism reminds me of Lonzo Ball. Very good athlete in space and in transition. Stiff on offense. Lack of explosiveness in traffic. Uses crafty moves to finish but struggles otherwise. Exceptional lateral movements.

Defensively, he reminds me again of Ball. Just a bigger and longer body with more size.

I think he is generational in the right system and probably average in the average or above average system. Luckily for him, he went to the Hawks. I remember 15 years ago when that was a bad thing. Anyway, his weaknesses will be extremely difficult to expose and Atlanta can and should play to his strengths.

As a prospect, he has an solid ceiling in general but an elite one in the right situation. He is not PG13 to me as a prospect who he is compared to a lot. PG13 was much worse as a player but had a lot more natural ceiling as well. For example, I am not surprised to see how PG career became. I think that it could have happened in general if given time to develop like he was in Indy. While Cam on the other hand, I have him as a player with a much higher floor but not as high on a ceiling.

Why?
PG13 out of FS was a better athlete especially in the half court. While he wasn't Grant Hill, he was plenty athletic. It wasn't like he was Danny Granger. He was also explosive in tight spaces. His Basketball skills just needed to develop. Cam's skills is already high level. I don't really think Cam needs to do more than polish what he can already do. Cam's ballhandling is great in space, he obviously needs to improve his core strength but that's not as easy to improve. PG didn't have that issue of core strength. PG issue was obvious, he just couldn't dribble. He didn't much skill outside of shooting. Give PG three years of skill development, he would be a good player at the least. Cam on the other hand needs the situation around him to be good at the least. Otherwise, he could be exposed.

Just different prospects to me. I don't see the comparison. At the end, I think Cam could be best player in the league.

Finding a high end 3pt variance guy like a Trae, Steph, Harden, Luka, and Herro is extremely hard to find.

Finding a high volume 3pt shooter out of college like Steph, Klay, Trae, Garland with 1st round talent is even harder to find.

While being exclusively an elite scorer in space is not super valuable as it normally requires the right system, role and personnel grouping, mixed with the other two items it could be scary good.

Any player on offense who is a movement player with a prong or more always has value in a system which also will help Reddish.

You add that with his defense which should be much more impactful in the NBA and was in the NCAA's, I think it's fair to say he isn't just a 3/D prospect. He is a generational bucket getting, game spacer who can break your floor on both ends. This is as rare a prospect there is if used right.

I think Cam Reddish can break the NBA.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#433 » by Stillwater » Sun Sep 1, 2019 12:05 pm

^love the optimism and you did love his chances before the hawks took him... and although it looks like a decent situation for him many arguments were made in his defense suggesting he needs the ball in his hands more to utilize his strengths as a scorer to the point he is a ball stopper if he is given that usage...or he will remain nothing more than a catch and shoot wing playing off their elite passing pg.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#434 » by King Ken » Sun Sep 1, 2019 10:30 pm

Stillwater wrote:^love the optimism and you did love his chances before the hawks took him... and although it looks like a decent situation for him many arguments were made in his defense suggesting he needs the ball in his hands more to utilize his strengths as a scorer to the point he is a ball stopper if he is given that usage...or he will remain nothing more than a catch and shoot wing playing off their elite passing pg.

I will say this, the fact that he is a high usage 3/D on average makes him the most difficult scout in general. As a best 3/D wings who have high usage are efficient like PG13 or Leonard which makes them superstars and the quality 3/D wings are efficient with low usage, you wonder about Reddish who on average is neither efficient or low usage not to mention turnover prone which most if not all good 3/Ds are not.

I'll say just play to his strengths. 41% at C&S open. He is a monster on 1v1 when the defense isn't set. Good in transition if in stride.

Do NOT treat him like Joe Johnson or T-Mac. Those two were just as good in space as there were in the half court v. set defenses. Isos against set defenses could work at times but it's asking for trouble (turnovers and bad decision making). Keep him constantly in space like Jamal Crawford where he can't be easily schemed. Create easy looks. Play uptempo. Make him efficient and lower his turnover situations. Like Jamal, he can't be guarded 1v1. Far too skilled.

Do NOT force him to create for himself and others. You are asking for bad bad bad outcomes. Put him in PnR actions, even if he is mostly creating for himself, he is too skilled like Jamal, he will score or create for others at a much higher rate than norm.

Atlanta has all of the tools to do this and do it extremely well. Which is why he could be the best in the league one day. You add this level of offense with his level of defense. You will break the NBA.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#435 » by Stillwater » Sun Sep 1, 2019 10:42 pm

^ yeah he aint breaking the NBA with that passive game... I'd be shocked if he doesn't bust hard at minimum be no more than the level of impact of a Wiggins if given high usage or maybe he will play within himself and fit in nicely to a role of catch and shoot wing that has shown some tools defensively and maybe it carries over but I doubt many will applaud the Hawks for taking him at 10 if either is the result.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#436 » by King Ken » Mon Sep 2, 2019 12:37 am

Stillwater wrote:^ yeah he aint breaking the NBA with that passive game... I'd be shocked if he doesn't bust hard at minimum be no more than the level of impact of a Wiggins if given high usage or maybe he will play within himself and fit in nicely to a role of catch and shoot wing that has shown some tools defensively and maybe it carries over but I doubt many will applaud the Hawks for taking him at 10 if either is the result.

Is he really passive? His usage is high, he takes a lot of threes and is fairly aggressive in actions. It's fair to say he has a tendency to stand in the corner if not involved which is highly common for almost all 3/D prospects.

I don't see your Wiggins take at all. Not even 1%. They are not the same types of players. Completely different abilities and skill-set. Their only commonality is both are extremely talented.

Cam's biggest strength is his defense. His defense translates better to the NBA than anything else he does. Then the 3pt high end variance and lastly the 3pt volume which generally translates, especially for an off primary guard.

I felt he we would have been a very solid pick for anyone at 10 especially in this draft but for the Hawks, he is a blue diamond stone.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#437 » by Stillwater » Mon Sep 2, 2019 3:24 am

King Ken wrote:
Stillwater wrote:^ yeah he aint breaking the NBA with that passive game... I'd be shocked if he doesn't bust hard at minimum be no more than the level of impact of a Wiggins if given high usage or maybe he will play within himself and fit in nicely to a role of catch and shoot wing that has shown some tools defensively and maybe it carries over but I doubt many will applaud the Hawks for taking him at 10 if either is the result.

Is he really passive? His usage is high, he takes a lot of threes and is fairly aggressive in actions. It's fair to say he has a tendency to stand in the corner if not involved which is highly common for almost all 3/D prospects.

I don't see your Wiggins take at all. Not even 1%. They are not the same types of players. Completely different abilities and skill-set. Their only commonality is both are extremely talented.

Cam's biggest strength is his defense. His defense translates better to the NBA than anything else he does. Then the 3pt high end variance and lastly the 3pt volume which generally translates, especially for an off primary guard.

I felt he we would have been a very solid pick for anyone at 10 especially in this draft but for the Hawks, he is a blue diamond stone.

wiggins wasnt a style of play comp it was and is a dig on reddish lack of motor lack of ability to take over against college defenses let alone nba ones and just a general impression i have about his personality not having any dog in him at all
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#438 » by King Ken » Mon Sep 2, 2019 6:08 am

Stillwater wrote:
King Ken wrote:
Stillwater wrote:^ yeah he aint breaking the NBA with that passive game... I'd be shocked if he doesn't bust hard at minimum be no more than the level of impact of a Wiggins if given high usage or maybe he will play within himself and fit in nicely to a role of catch and shoot wing that has shown some tools defensively and maybe it carries over but I doubt many will applaud the Hawks for taking him at 10 if either is the result.

Is he really passive? His usage is high, he takes a lot of threes and is fairly aggressive in actions. It's fair to say he has a tendency to stand in the corner if not involved which is highly common for almost all 3/D prospects.

I don't see your Wiggins take at all. Not even 1%. They are not the same types of players. Completely different abilities and skill-set. Their only commonality is both are extremely talented.

Cam's biggest strength is his defense. His defense translates better to the NBA than anything else he does. Then the 3pt high end variance and lastly the 3pt volume which generally translates, especially for an off primary guard.

I felt he we would have been a very solid pick for anyone at 10 especially in this draft but for the Hawks, he is a blue diamond stone.

wiggins wasnt a style of play comp it was and is a dig on reddish lack of motor lack of ability to take over against college defenses let alone nba ones and just a general impression i have about his personality not having any dog in him at all

You should have said that initially. I don't have an issue with either Cam or Andrew's motor. My issue has always been with work ethic and passion for the game with Wiggins. I don't have those questions about Cam and I've asked around the program in Durham as well as my contacts in the industry. I feel motor can be misused. Obviously, you want high motor guys but no everyone is that way. Some guys are like PG13, Otto Porter Jr, etc. Not everyone plays with a motor but for me, do you love the game and are you willing to work extremely hard to improve. For me, that's most important. Kevin Hureter on the Hawks doesn't play with a good motor. He barely contests shots but he plays with a love for the game. Motor isn't that big of a deal to me.

If there is an example Wiggins is for Reddish is that you can easily not improve even if you have success early in your career. This means improve must be constant. Drive and work ethic must be high.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#439 » by Stillwater » Mon Sep 2, 2019 3:52 pm

If Cams work ethic and passion for the game were there any more than a typical ( I already am great mentality) prima like Wiggins then he should have shown it in college but just like wiggins he didn't drive the hype train into Legitville in college but instead kept riding the coattails of his HS hype... I just don't see him putting it all together even if his biggest struggles were based on the core muscle excuses.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#440 » by Illmatic12 » Mon Sep 2, 2019 4:06 pm

Reddish is someone who came into college with the opposite perception of what he actually is - he is what I would consider a “high floor, low ceiling” prospect.

While he has a lot of issues with consistency, I do think his defensive ability and the way he’s able to fluidly guard smaller players will earn him multiple NBA contracts.

Reason why I worry his ceiling may be capped is bc he doesn’t have elite level athleticism or instincts to impact the game in multiple ways when his contested shots aren’t falling. Obviously, Cam does not like contact and isn’t much help as a rebounder. There aren’t many great wing players who are “soft” and that lack of physicality/toughness will be limiting in terms of being able to slide him to the 4 in different lineups. Had he been like an Otto Porter or RoCo and had a nose for rebounding you could project him as a versatile small ball PF.

The on-ball creation stuff he was doing and killing everyone in HS certainly hasn’t translated to higher levels. ATM he isn’t meeting the threshold of explosive burst, strength, craftiness to be an NBA primary/secondary creator - and again he is more of a 3 than a small ball 4, so matched up against other SFs he won’t be quick enough to get past a lot of the guys guarding him.

Really what the Hawks ought to do is look at a player like Trevor Ariza as a model for Cam. If he just becomes comfortable firing catch+shoot 3s and guarding his man, no question he can have a 10+ year career.

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