Cameron Reddish

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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#441 » by King Ken » Mon Sep 2, 2019 6:11 pm

Stillwater wrote:If Cams work ethic and passion for the game were there any more than a typical ( I already am great mentality) prima like Wiggins then he should have shown it in college but just like wiggins he didn't drive the hype train into Legitville in college but instead kept riding the coattails of his HS hype... I just don't see him putting it all together even if his biggest struggles were based on the core muscle excuses.

I have to agree to disagree.

Illmatic12 wrote:Reddish is someone who came into college with the opposite perception of what he actually is - he is what I would consider a “high floor, low ceiling” prospect.

While he has a lot of issues with consistency, I do think his defensive ability and the way he’s able to fluidly guard smaller players will earn him multiple NBA contracts.

Reason why I worry his ceiling may be capped is bc he doesn’t have elite level athleticism or instincts to impact the game in multiple ways when his contested shots aren’t falling. Obviously, Cam does not like contact and isn’t much help as a rebounder. There aren’t many great wing players who are “soft” and that lack of physicality/toughness will be limiting in terms of being able to slide him to the 4 in different lineups. Had he been like an Otto Porter or RoCo and had a nose for rebounding you could project him as a versatile small ball PF.

The on-ball creation stuff he was doing and killing everyone in HS certainly hasn’t translated to higher levels. ATM he isn’t meeting the threshold of explosive burst, strength, craftiness to be an NBA primary/secondary creator - and again he is more of a 3 than a small ball 4, so matched up against other SFs he won’t be quick enough to get past a lot of the guys guarding him.

Really what the Hawks ought to do is look at a player like Trevor Ariza as a model for Cam. If he just becomes comfortable firing catch+shoot 3s and guarding his man, no question he can have a 10+ year career.

I 95% disagree with most of your takes on Reddish. I never really have came close to seeing what you see on him. It's about as large as how I disagreed with Stillwater last year on Trae Young. He said he is trash and Trey Burke 2.0 and I said is a generational offensive weapon. Now, he still doesn't agree with me but he at least has moved from the easy bust statements.

I actually kinda agree with your start. I too felt in the wrong situation, you are looking at a high floor, low ceiling prospect. I agree with that part and said as much even in recent posts to Stillwater. You can't use him for something he ain't. You have to play to his strengths. That highly revolves around personnel and system. In a situation like the Knicks or Cavs, I would worry about Reddish. For the Hawks, Warriors or Rockets, especially Warriors and Hawks, he is in the optimal situation. That's the difference. I felt in the wrong situation, you are talking about an extremely talented flawed prospect, in the right situation, the best player in the NBA like ability.

Athleticism is comparable to Lonzo Ball which is a GOOD and BAD thing as Zo proved his athleticism doesn't really translate in the half court offense but completely translates on defense. In general, he would have a capped potential. It's not so much that he doesn't like contact, he is just not good dealing with contact. He doesn't have the athleticism or strength to handle traffic or contact well and like Crawford and Ball, is overly finesse and crafty which doesn't work in the NBA all that well without space. It does with space of course.

isn’t much help as a rebounder. There aren’t many great wing players who are “soft” and that lack of physicality/toughness will be limiting in terms of being able to slide him to the 4 in different lineups. Had he been like an Otto Porter or RoCo and had a nose for rebounding you could project him as a versatile small ball PF.

I actually think is can be a good defensive rebounder for position. Coach K wanted him to commit to transition a lot and had Tre, Zion and R.J. crashing the boards who are all ++ and defensive rebounding for position. Even Bolden is a good rebounder as well. We must remember, he averaged 7 RPG in EYBL. That matters and has proven to translate. He spends a lot of time on the perimeter on offense so offensive rebounds will always be on the low end.

I will say he is not soft on defense but he does lack physicality at times but during the 2nd half of the season, we seen him take a major step up in terms of post defense and being tough. Michigan State game for example, Cam was Duke's best defender and Duke without Cam defensively in the two games he has missed as been a mess. When the games got big, his defense was great. Best defender during both the ACC and NCAA tournament. While I am not a big fan of switching him on 4's with the strength he showed last year, I do think long term he should be fine at it as we seen with Ball. I see him as a 2/3, with one 1 in him. I don't really see a 4 at all other than switchablilty. He really isn't a 4. Those two played PF in college. It's kinda of unfair to have that expectation but I get it, if we are looking at the typical 3/D wings, they all have PF experience while Cam has been a primary guard or a 3 for the most part.

The on-ball creation stuff he was doing and killing everyone in HS certainly hasn’t translated to higher levels. ATM he isn’t meeting the threshold of explosive burst, strength, craftiness to be an NBA primary/secondary creator - and again he is more of a 3 than a small ball 4, so matched up against other SFs he won’t be quick enough to get past a lot of the guys guarding him.


This is not a good statement. His on-ball creation stuff has translated. He is one of the best isolation players in the nation at Duke and he was unstoppable in space. The issue was, college basketball, Duke's spacing, personnel grouping and role. To say it hasn't translated is just wrong. This is equivalent to Stillwater's hot take that Trae Young won't be able to effectively score throughout his career in the NBA last year. I don't know how you can say that. If you think this, then you are clearly going to miss on Reddish. 100%. I personally think the entire paragraph is off. He is explosive in space which is what the tape shows. His strength is obviously an issue but it's something he can and will improve on as we seen with most college to pro prospects. It's not like he doesn't have a NBA elite body for his positions. he is the most crafty prospect in this class, wtf are you talking about? I am not sure what you are saying if you have watched him or not.

Really what the Hawks ought to do is look at a player like Trevor Ariza as a model for Cam. If he just becomes comfortable firing catch+shoot 3s and guarding his man, no question he can have a 10+ year career


I am going to put this on the same list with Trae Young being Trey Burke 2.0 and some saying he is a Black Jimmer. Trevor Ariza couldn't even shoot 3s out of college and was primarily a slasher. He didn't have any of the skills Reddish has, 3pt volume much less high end variance. :noway:

Bad takes:

Zion is the modern Rodney Rogers before college.
Trae Young is Trey Burke or Jimmer
Cam Reddish - Trevor Ariza.

Cam Reddish is going to be the 1st Cam Reddish. Just like Zion, he doesn't have a prototype.

Being elite in space like Jamal Crawford is rare.
Being a prospect who has 3pt volume and 1st round talent is rare. We got Klay Thompson who had that volume out of college.
Being a prospect with high end 3pt variance is more of a new thing in the NBA so we really don't have a catalog but him, Tyler Herro, Marshall Henderson, and Darius Garland. The list is small as it's new to the NBA much less college hoops.
Being a prospect who has movement skills and at least a prong isn't all that common for a prospect with 1st round talent.

He isn't your typical 3/D and I don't think he will ever be but he is a rare prospect if used correctly could be the best player in the NBA and if used incorrectly can be a tough piece to add to most puzzles.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#442 » by NO-KG-AI » Mon Sep 2, 2019 8:26 pm

That’s a lot of hedging. If you need a super specific set of circumstances and people setting you up, you’re not the best player in the NBA. Sounds like creating a dialogue for when he doesn’t reach those lofty goals.


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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#443 » by clyde21 » Mon Sep 2, 2019 8:53 pm

Trevor Ariza isn't really that bad of a comp for Cam in terms of archetype, if he can hit that type of career I'd consider that as a win if I'm Atlanta
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#444 » by King Ken » Mon Sep 2, 2019 9:08 pm

clyde21 wrote:Trevor Ariza isn't really that bad of a comp for Cam in terms of archetype, if he can hit that type of career I'd consider that as a win if I'm Atlanta

He will easily surpass that at his base in our system and personnel grouping



NO-KG-AI wrote:That’s a lot of hedging. If you need a super specific set of circumstances and people setting you up, you’re not the best player in the NBA. Sounds like creating a dialogue for when he doesn’t reach those lofty goals.


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Stephen Curry rings a bell?
Kawhi Leonard development rings a bell?
Steve Nash rings a bell?
Anti that is Lonzo Ball

Ideally, you would love to get Michael Jordan, Hakeem, Kareem, LeBron James, Tim Duncan, D-Rob, Giannis, AD, and Durant where you can put them in a terrible situation and they will still become superstars because their ceiling is just too high regardless of their situation.

But there are situational superstars and will always be situational superstars just like guys will fall flat due to a lack of a good situation.

I strongly believe Cam can break the NBA. Volume three point shooting with high end 3pt variance while being elite in space with an elite body on top of being an elite defender is extremely rare. We do not have anyone like that who's ever played the game. PG13 is as close as it gets and he's not elite in space. I am telling you, this guy can break the NBA. His gravity will be unreal.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#445 » by clyde21 » Mon Sep 2, 2019 9:22 pm

you keep saying 'in your system'...wtf does that mean? why are you acting like you guys have this godly system that no one else knows about where all the players are gonna go off in it?

it's all gonna come down to his handle/on-ball creation, if it doesn't improve he's going to be a strictly 3+D guy a la Ariza, that has nothing to do with your system, unless your system can miraculously improve handle, creation, and motor.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#446 » by King Ken » Mon Sep 2, 2019 9:28 pm

clyde21 wrote:you keep saying 'in your system'...wtf does that mean? why are you acting like you guys have this godly system that no one else knows about where all the players are gonna go off in it?

We do have a tremendous system where we are one of the best teams in the NBA at creating Value shots for our shooters. Trae Young created the most corner threes in the NBA (104) playing around 30 MPG. We also have the best spacing system in the 2nd half of the season behind only GS. That's a fact. We simply needed better personnel who fits our system. We added that with both Reddish and Hunter. We have the 8th ranked OffRtg in the NBA when John Collins is on the court. If you don't watch us, you might not understand and I can see why. Those who know, they know.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#447 » by clyde21 » Mon Sep 2, 2019 9:30 pm

King Ken wrote:
clyde21 wrote:you keep saying 'in your system'...wtf does that mean? why are you acting like you guys have this godly system that no one else knows about where all the players are gonna go off in it?

We do have a tremendous system where we are one of the best teams in the NBA at creating Value shots for our shooters. Trae Young created the most corner threes in the NBA (104) playing around 30 MPG. We also have the best spacing system in the 2nd half of the season behind only GS. That's a fact. We simply needed better personnel who fits our system. We added that with both Reddish and Hunter. We have the 8th ranked OffRtg in the NBA when John Collins is on the court. If you don't watch us, you might not understand and I can see why. Those who know, they know.


okay...so your answer to that is 'we're gonna give him more spacing'? brilliant.

what does that have to do with his inability to drive, handle, and create on-ball? those are his weaknesses. we already know he can shoot 3s and defense...hence the Ariza comp.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#448 » by King Ken » Mon Sep 2, 2019 9:50 pm

clyde21 wrote:
King Ken wrote:
clyde21 wrote:you keep saying 'in your system'...wtf does that mean? why are you acting like you guys have this godly system that no one else knows about where all the players are gonna go off in it?

We do have a tremendous system where we are one of the best teams in the NBA at creating Value shots for our shooters. Trae Young created the most corner threes in the NBA (104) playing around 30 MPG. We also have the best spacing system in the 2nd half of the season behind only GS. That's a fact. We simply needed better personnel who fits our system. We added that with both Reddish and Hunter. We have the 8th ranked OffRtg in the NBA when John Collins is on the court. If you don't watch us, you might not understand and I can see why. Those who know, they know.


okay...so your answer to that is 'we're gonna give him more spacing'? brilliant.

what does that have to do with his inability to drive, handle, and create on-ball? those are his weaknesses. we already know he can shoot 3s and defense...hence the Ariza comp.

Well no ****, we are going to give him more spacing than most teams in the NBA. Any team who has our offensive gravity will. Common damn sense son! Stop acting like you don't watch NBA games, anyone who watches us knows we have one of the best offensive spacing systems when Trae Young and John Collins is on the floor. That's besides the fact that any team in the NBA will be a spacing upgrade over what he had to deal with the NCAAs and especially at Duke with Tre, R.J. and Zion where once conference play started, everyone sat on his shot in their zone and force the others to beat them via threes.

He doesn't have an inability to drive. He is one of the better space drivers in this draft especially due to his size and solid first step.
He clearly has handles in space (left or right) and his isolation scoring is at one of the higher rates of prospects in this draft class.

How are those his weaknesses? What you are talking about?

His weaknesses are simple:
Half court v. set defense self creation
Driving in traffic
Finishing in traffic
Explosiveness in traffic
Shooting with drapped over by the defense which will improve with experience as it does for most players. NBA spacing tends to help in this area as well.
The in traffic areas are much more difficult to overcome.

Elite space player on offense
Below average in a half court set at self creation and depending on volume, could be terrible at it.
Not your typical #1 option.

He is best in space, best when open for threes, creating in space around the three point line, just in space.

Half court offense v. a set defense is not his friend. He is a liability unless you can create for him and others at will. Which Trae Young can do as he did in the 2nd half of his rookie season and parts of his 1st half as well.

I am going to be on your ass throughout his career the way I am on Stillwater about Trae Young, just letting you know in advance.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#449 » by NO-KG-AI » Mon Sep 2, 2019 9:53 pm

They have the 8th ranked offensive system, which is the difference between being Lonzo Ball or the best player in the nba.

Steph Curry and Steve Nash are dominant shooters with ridiculous handling and creation ability, point guard skills, and finishing ability. Kawhi has been dominant on two separate teams.

You’re massively reaching. If Reddish becomes a superstar it’s because he drastically improves on his skillset, not because he went to the Hawks of all teams.


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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#450 » by clyde21 » Mon Sep 2, 2019 9:58 pm

King Ken wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
King Ken wrote:We do have a tremendous system where we are one of the best teams in the NBA at creating Value shots for our shooters. Trae Young created the most corner threes in the NBA (104) playing around 30 MPG. We also have the best spacing system in the 2nd half of the season behind only GS. That's a fact. We simply needed better personnel who fits our system. We added that with both Reddish and Hunter. We have the 8th ranked OffRtg in the NBA when John Collins is on the court. If you don't watch us, you might not understand and I can see why. Those who know, they know.


okay...so your answer to that is 'we're gonna give him more spacing'? brilliant.

what does that have to do with his inability to drive, handle, and create on-ball? those are his weaknesses. we already know he can shoot 3s and defense...hence the Ariza comp.

Well no ****, we are going to give him more spacing than most teams in the NBA. Any team who has our offensive gravity will. Common damn sense son! Stop acting like you don't watch NBA games, anyone who watches us knows we have one of the best offensive spacing systems when Trae Young and John Collins is on the floor. That's besides the fact that any team in the NBA will be a spacing upgrade over what he had to deal with the NCAAs and especially at Duke with Tre, R.J. and Zion where once conference play started, everyone sat on his shot in their zone and force the others to beat them via threes.

He doesn't have an inability to drive. He is one of the better space drivers in this draft especially due to his size and solid first step.
He clearly has handles in space (left or right) and his isolation scoring is at one of the higher rates of prospects in this draft class.

How are those his weaknesses? What you are talking about?

His weaknesses are simple:
Half court v. set defense self creation
Driving in traffic
Finishing in traffic
Explosiveness in traffic
Shooting with drapped over by the defense which will improve with experience as it does for most players. NBA spacing tends to help in this area as well.
The in traffic areas are much more difficult to overcome.

Elite space player on offense
Below average in a half court set at self creation and depending on volume, could be terrible at it.
Not your typical #1 option.

He is best in space, best when open for threes, creating in space around the three point line, just in space.

Half court offense v. a set defense is not his friend. He is a liability unless you can create for him and others at will. Which Trae Young can do as he did in the 2nd half of his rookie season and parts of his 1st half as well.

I am going to be on your ass throughout his career the way I am on Stillwater about Trae Young, just letting you know in advance.


be on my ass for what, exactly? for saying that Ariza is an apt comp at this point? HOW DARE WE! :lol:

and again, what does Atlanta's system have to do with Cam's weaknesses? he's ridiculously inconsistent with motor issue, bad/loose handle especially in traffic, decision making/turnover issues, fishing at the basket, on-ball creation and playmaking...none of these shortcomings have anything to do with what system he's playing in, they're Cam skill based and how much he's willing to get better at this these things once he gets healthy and dedicated all of his time towards basketball.

and stop pretending that Atlanta is the only team in the NBA that has better spacing than college ball...you sound ridiculous. 'in our system Ariza is his BASE'...**** outta with that. :roll:
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#451 » by Illmatic12 » Mon Sep 2, 2019 10:05 pm

King Ken wrote:
Spoiler:
Stillwater wrote:If Cams work ethic and passion for the game were there any more than a typical ( I already am great mentality) prima like Wiggins then he should have shown it in college but just like wiggins he didn't drive the hype train into Legitville in college but instead kept riding the coattails of his HS hype... I just don't see him putting it all together even if his biggest struggles were based on the core muscle excuses.

I have to agree to disagree.

Illmatic12 wrote:Reddish is someone who came into college with the opposite perception of what he actually is - he is what I would consider a “high floor, low ceiling” prospect.

While he has a lot of issues with consistency, I do think his defensive ability and the way he’s able to fluidly guard smaller players will earn him multiple NBA contracts.

Reason why I worry his ceiling may be capped is bc he doesn’t have elite level athleticism or instincts to impact the game in multiple ways when his contested shots aren’t falling. Obviously, Cam does not like contact and isn’t much help as a rebounder. There aren’t many great wing players who are “soft” and that lack of physicality/toughness will be limiting in terms of being able to slide him to the 4 in different lineups. Had he been like an Otto Porter or RoCo and had a nose for rebounding you could project him as a versatile small ball PF.

The on-ball creation stuff he was doing and killing everyone in HS certainly hasn’t translated to higher levels. ATM he isn’t meeting the threshold of explosive burst, strength, craftiness to be an NBA primary/secondary creator - and again he is more of a 3 than a small ball 4, so matched up against other SFs he won’t be quick enough to get past a lot of the guys guarding him.

Really what the Hawks ought to do is look at a player like Trevor Ariza as a model for Cam. If he just becomes comfortable firing catch+shoot 3s and guarding his man, no question he can have a 10+ year career.

I 95% disagree with most of your takes on Reddish. I never really have came close to seeing what you see on him. It's about as large as how I disagreed with Stillwater last year on Trae Young. He said he is trash and Trey Burke 2.0 and I said is a generational offensive weapon. Now, he still doesn't agree with me but he at least has moved from the easy bust statements.

I actually kinda agree with your start. I too felt in the wrong situation, you are looking at a high floor, low ceiling prospect. I agree with that part and said as much even in recent posts to Stillwater. You can't use him for something he ain't. You have to play to his strengths. That highly revolves around personnel and system. In a situation like the Knicks or Cavs, I would worry about Reddish. For the Hawks, Warriors or Rockets, especially Warriors and Hawks, he is in the optimal situation. That's the difference. I felt in the wrong situation, you are talking about an extremely talented flawed prospect, in the right situation, the best player in the NBA like ability.

Athleticism is comparable to Lonzo Ball which is a GOOD and BAD thing as Zo proved his athleticism doesn't really translate in the half court offense but completely translates on defense. In general, he would have a capped potential. It's not so much that he doesn't like contact, he is just not good dealing with contact. He doesn't have the athleticism or strength to handle traffic or contact well and like Crawford and Ball, is overly finesse and crafty which doesn't work in the NBA all that well without space. It does with space of course.

isn’t much help as a rebounder. There aren’t many great wing players who are “soft” and that lack of physicality/toughness will be limiting in terms of being able to slide him to the 4 in different lineups. Had he been like an Otto Porter or RoCo and had a nose for rebounding you could project him as a versatile small ball PF.

I actually think is can be a good defensive rebounder for position. Coach K wanted him to commit to transition a lot and had Tre, Zion and R.J. crashing the boards who are all ++ and defensive rebounding for position. Even Bolden is a good rebounder as well. We must remember, he averaged 7 RPG in EYBL. That matters and has proven to translate. He spends a lot of time on the perimeter on offense so offensive rebounds will always be on the low end.

I will say he is not soft on defense but he does lack physicality at times but during the 2nd half of the season, we seen him take a major step up in terms of post defense and being tough. Michigan State game for example, Cam was Duke's best defender and Duke without Cam defensively in the two games he has missed as been a mess. When the games got big, his defense was great. Best defender during both the ACC and NCAA tournament. While I am not a big fan of switching him on 4's with the strength he showed last year, I do think long term he should be fine at it as we seen with Ball. I see him as a 2/3, with one 1 in him. I don't really see a 4 at all other than switchablilty. He really isn't a 4. Those two played PF in college. It's kinda of unfair to have that expectation but I get it, if we are looking at the typical 3/D wings, they all have PF experience while Cam has been a primary guard or a 3 for the most part.

The on-ball creation stuff he was doing and killing everyone in HS certainly hasn’t translated to higher levels. ATM he isn’t meeting the threshold of explosive burst, strength, craftiness to be an NBA primary/secondary creator - and again he is more of a 3 than a small ball 4, so matched up against other SFs he won’t be quick enough to get past a lot of the guys guarding him.


This is not a good statement. His on-ball creation stuff has translated. He is one of the best isolation players in the nation at Duke and he was unstoppable in space. The issue was, college basketball, Duke's spacing, personnel grouping and role. To say it hasn't translated is just wrong. This is equivalent to Stillwater's hot take that Trae Young won't be able to effectively score throughout his career in the NBA last year. I don't know how you can say that. If you think this, then you are clearly going to miss on Reddish. 100%. I personally think the entire paragraph is off. He is explosive in space which is what the tape shows. His strength is obviously an issue but it's something he can and will improve on as we seen with most college to pro prospects. It's not like he doesn't have a NBA elite body for his positions. he is the most crafty prospect in this class, wtf are you talking about? I am not sure what you are saying if you have watched him or not.

Really what the Hawks ought to do is look at a player like Trevor Ariza as a model for Cam. If he just becomes comfortable firing catch+shoot 3s and guarding his man, no question he can have a 10+ year career


I am going to put this on the same list with Trae Young being Trey Burke 2.0 and some saying he is a Black Jimmer. Trevor Ariza couldn't even shoot 3s out of college and was primarily a slasher. He didn't have any of the skills Reddish has, 3pt volume much less high end variance. :noway:

Bad takes:

Zion is the modern Rodney Rogers before college.
Trae Young is Trey Burke or Jimmer
Cam Reddish - Trevor Ariza.

Cam Reddish is going to be the 1st Cam Reddish. Just like Zion, he doesn't have a prototype.

Being elite in space like Jamal Crawford is rare.
Being a prospect who has 3pt volume and 1st round talent is rare. We got Klay Thompson who had that volume out of college.
Being a prospect with high end 3pt variance is more of a new thing in the NBA so we really don't have a catalog but him, Tyler Herro, Marshall Henderson, and Darius Garland. The list is small as it's new to the NBA much less college hoops.
Being a prospect who has movement skills and at least a prong isn't all that common for a prospect with 1st round talent.

He isn't your typical 3/D and I don't think he will ever be but he is a rare prospect if used correctly could be the best player in the NBA and if used incorrectly can be a tough piece to add to most puzzles.

Comp'ing Cam to Ariza wasn't in any way meant an insult - Trevor Ariza is really good at basketball. He was a dominant prep player (not too different from Reddish at that level) having a great pro career, and has received multiple NBA contracts totaling over $100M.. clearly he has established himself as having valuable skills that NBA teams will pay to acquire.

Tbh all this talk about system and him fitting on certain teams is a red herring and means nothing. We are talking about the toughest league in the world here, all opposing teams scout and figure out how to take away what each player does well. At the NBA level, there's nothing Reddish does with the ball in his hands that will effectively bend a defense. In halfcourt he won't be able to penetrate a set defense with his handle. Think he'll be able to get to his off-dribble pullups just fine , but teams will gladly let chuck those bc his % on thems terrible.

The only NBA "defense-bending" skill we've seen from Reddish is when he's without the ball. Still needs to get stronger but he's shown aptitude in getting to open spots and finding counters for how defenders overplay him, and generally has good footwork when he receives the pass. In other words , Reddish has two bankable skills that will get him paid: movement shooting and guarding his position.. ie Trevor Ariza. If he becomes strong/tough enough to run minutes at the 4, he could possibly rise above that and luck into an Otto Porter-type contract.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#452 » by King Ken » Mon Sep 2, 2019 10:18 pm

clyde21 wrote:
King Ken wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
okay...so your answer to that is 'we're gonna give him more spacing'? brilliant.

what does that have to do with his inability to drive, handle, and create on-ball? those are his weaknesses. we already know he can shoot 3s and defense...hence the Ariza comp.

Well no ****, we are going to give him more spacing than most teams in the NBA. Any team who has our offensive gravity will. Common damn sense son! Stop acting like you don't watch NBA games, anyone who watches us knows we have one of the best offensive spacing systems when Trae Young and John Collins is on the floor. That's besides the fact that any team in the NBA will be a spacing upgrade over what he had to deal with the NCAAs and especially at Duke with Tre, R.J. and Zion where once conference play started, everyone sat on his shot in their zone and force the others to beat them via threes.

He doesn't have an inability to drive. He is one of the better space drivers in this draft especially due to his size and solid first step.
He clearly has handles in space (left or right) and his isolation scoring is at one of the higher rates of prospects in this draft class.

How are those his weaknesses? What you are talking about?

His weaknesses are simple:
Half court v. set defense self creation
Driving in traffic
Finishing in traffic
Explosiveness in traffic
Shooting with drapped over by the defense which will improve with experience as it does for most players. NBA spacing tends to help in this area as well.
The in traffic areas are much more difficult to overcome.

Elite space player on offense
Below average in a half court set at self creation and depending on volume, could be terrible at it.
Not your typical #1 option.

He is best in space, best when open for threes, creating in space around the three point line, just in space.

Half court offense v. a set defense is not his friend. He is a liability unless you can create for him and others at will. Which Trae Young can do as he did in the 2nd half of his rookie season and parts of his 1st half as well.

I am going to be on your ass throughout his career the way I am on Stillwater about Trae Young, just letting you know in advance.


be on my ass for what, exactly? for saying that Ariza is an apt comp at this point? HOW DARE WE! :lol:

and again, what does Atlanta's system have to do with Cam's weaknesses? he's ridiculously inconsistent with motor issue, bad/loose handle especially in traffic, decision making/turnover issues, fishing at the basket, on-ball creation and playmaking...none of these shortcomings have anything to do with what system he's playing in, they're Cam skill based and how much he's willing to get better at this these things once he gets healthy and dedicated all of his time towards basketball.

and stop pretending that Atlanta is the only team in the NBA that has better spacing than college ball...you sound ridiculous. 'in our system Ariza is his BASE'...**** outta with that. :roll:

He is really not that inconsistent till the 1st UNC game on offense. Even then, he was giving us good defense and playing his role which clearly he wasn't best suited for which we all knew of from the jump. If making shots is based on your consistency, then how are you inconsistent? Those things at the college level can come and go from freshman in particular. ****, look at your boy Tyler Herro for example. His shot came and went often from deep. For me, inconsistent is about a level of play. His impact was similar for the most part.

5) Stats Mirror 4: Cam Reddish and Klay Thompson.

Screen-Shot-2018-12-07-at-3.51.50-PM.png



It’s strange that people have come around on Reddish’s total lack of burst athleticism and yet still claim he’s not assertive enough. He’s shooting 22 true shooting attempts per 40, an insanely high number for any player, let alone a freshman. How much more assertive do you want him to be?

In other words, and as I’ve said before, he doesn’t attack the basket more aggressively and more effectively because he simply isn’t blessed with the athleticism to do so. What he is blessed with is a jumper, the ability to find shots from distance and incredible length. Indeed, the only two major college players to get 3s off like Cam are Marshall Henderson and Trae Young, and I believe the only guy to get 12+ 3-point attempts per 40 with 3 steals per 40 is Stephen Curry.

And it’s not just context that allows him to do so. Or if it is, you’d figure there’d be another 6-foot-4 + shooter to have done so in the past, since plenty have been on loaded teams as 2nd or 3rd options and with the green light to shoot whenever open to include Kyle Korver, Doug McDermott, JJ Redick, Shane Battier, Shan Foster, Buddy Hield, Ray Allen, Richard Hamilton (he shot threes in college),Paul Pierce, Vince Carter and Klay Thompson, or whoever you want to name. None of them did this. So the ability to get shots up, even if it doesn’t seem like Reddish is doing anything all that special likely does have quite a bit to do with Reddish’s abilities, as most of these other players max out around 9-10 3-point attempts per 40.

All this is to say, Reddish’s avenue to being a high value player is as a 3&D player who breaks the mold, since it’s possible he’ll add volume shooting (ala Klay) to the defensive package. And his defensive skills are potentially much better than pretty much any player considered an elite 3-point threat in the NBA. That’s not just in the NBA now. That’s in NBA history, including Klay, since Reddish has much better defensive size, defensive athleticism (sliding athleticism on D is more than sufficient) and length.

Now consider I’m talking about potential, which is quite a bit different than actuality (i.e. Klay is currently a much better defender than Reddish and Reddish would have to improve a lot to overtake him) and also only talking about the elite or potentially elite shooters. So Kawhi, who was the best 3&D player ever before stepping up to offensive focal point, isn’t involved in the conversation because his 3-point jumper is somewhat less than elite. I’m not talking about the best player of this type, but the best defender who also happens to potentially be an elite 3-point shooter. Reddish could be that.

If you want some sense as to how much that could be worth, watch either the 2016 Golden State-Portland playoff series when Steph was hurt and the Warriors redesigned its offense on the fly around Klay’s jump shot while Klay also disrupted Lillard in multiple games, or the 2013 Finals between Miami and San Antonio in which Danny Green went crazy and Miami simply couldn’t defend him and had to pray for him to miss shots, which he eventually did, in order to win the series.

There’s a lot of potential value in this type of player if the coach understands who he is and puts him in the right scheme. The problem, for a player like Reddish, is that people may expect him to be something he’s not and fail to put him into that context.

Other statistical contenders: Marshall Henderson, Steph Curry, Ray Allen, Danny Green, Shane Battier, Kyle Korver.

https://www.thestepien.com/2018/12/12/draft-notes-shittu-reddish-little-mirror-seasons/


bad/loose handle especially in traffic, decision making/turnover issues, fishing at the basket, on-ball creation and playmaking...none of these shortcomings have anything to do with what system he's playing in, they're Cam skill based and how much he's willing to get better at this these things once he gets healthy and dedicated all of his time towards basketball.

and stop pretending that Atlanta is the only team in the NBA that has better spacing than college ball...you sound ridiculous. 'in our system Ariza is his BASE'...**** outta with that.


Handle in traffic can improve with more spacing and just a summer with trainers and the coaching staff but it needs to work on that core strength which will have a bigger impact down the road. That said, his handling in traffic needs work.

Decision making issues are normal for players who struggle dribbling in traffic in particular space players. Like Jamal, 1v1, his ball handling is excellent. At the same token, they tend to be extremely good at PnR offense especially with decision making.

His on ball creation is fine, if you are elite in space, your on ball creation is fine.

His playmaking is fine. Just limit it to PnR actions and high gravity situations. If you have low gravity players on the floor or the best playmaker on the court aside from Reddish is weak at it, it might not be the best situation for Reddish.

You don't know what your talking about Clyde. I mean damn, you don't even have reading comprehension skills. I am done with this convo with you. I will be on your ass for the rest of his career. I am never going to let you live this down either. FYI

If you are right, you can say whatever you want just like I told Stillwater with Trae Young. He swore Trae was Trey Burke and Jimmer. I told him, if you are right, I will let you talk your **** but you are dead ass wrong and you don't know what the hell you are talking about. He rode and died with Trae is Burke and Jimmer and going into Year 2, I will be on his ass every chance I get if the opportunity is available. Just letting you know, you want to die on this lever like Stillwater did with Trae, be my guest.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#453 » by King Ken » Mon Sep 2, 2019 10:24 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:
King Ken wrote:
Spoiler:
Stillwater wrote:If Cams work ethic and passion for the game were there any more than a typical ( I already am great mentality) prima like Wiggins then he should have shown it in college but just like wiggins he didn't drive the hype train into Legitville in college but instead kept riding the coattails of his HS hype... I just don't see him putting it all together even if his biggest struggles were based on the core muscle excuses.

I have to agree to disagree.

Illmatic12 wrote:Reddish is someone who came into college with the opposite perception of what he actually is - he is what I would consider a “high floor, low ceiling” prospect.

While he has a lot of issues with consistency, I do think his defensive ability and the way he’s able to fluidly guard smaller players will earn him multiple NBA contracts.

Reason why I worry his ceiling may be capped is bc he doesn’t have elite level athleticism or instincts to impact the game in multiple ways when his contested shots aren’t falling. Obviously, Cam does not like contact and isn’t much help as a rebounder. There aren’t many great wing players who are “soft” and that lack of physicality/toughness will be limiting in terms of being able to slide him to the 4 in different lineups. Had he been like an Otto Porter or RoCo and had a nose for rebounding you could project him as a versatile small ball PF.

The on-ball creation stuff he was doing and killing everyone in HS certainly hasn’t translated to higher levels. ATM he isn’t meeting the threshold of explosive burst, strength, craftiness to be an NBA primary/secondary creator - and again he is more of a 3 than a small ball 4, so matched up against other SFs he won’t be quick enough to get past a lot of the guys guarding him.

Really what the Hawks ought to do is look at a player like Trevor Ariza as a model for Cam. If he just becomes comfortable firing catch+shoot 3s and guarding his man, no question he can have a 10+ year career.

I 95% disagree with most of your takes on Reddish. I never really have came close to seeing what you see on him. It's about as large as how I disagreed with Stillwater last year on Trae Young. He said he is trash and Trey Burke 2.0 and I said is a generational offensive weapon. Now, he still doesn't agree with me but he at least has moved from the easy bust statements.

I actually kinda agree with your start. I too felt in the wrong situation, you are looking at a high floor, low ceiling prospect. I agree with that part and said as much even in recent posts to Stillwater. You can't use him for something he ain't. You have to play to his strengths. That highly revolves around personnel and system. In a situation like the Knicks or Cavs, I would worry about Reddish. For the Hawks, Warriors or Rockets, especially Warriors and Hawks, he is in the optimal situation. That's the difference. I felt in the wrong situation, you are talking about an extremely talented flawed prospect, in the right situation, the best player in the NBA like ability.

Athleticism is comparable to Lonzo Ball which is a GOOD and BAD thing as Zo proved his athleticism doesn't really translate in the half court offense but completely translates on defense. In general, he would have a capped potential. It's not so much that he doesn't like contact, he is just not good dealing with contact. He doesn't have the athleticism or strength to handle traffic or contact well and like Crawford and Ball, is overly finesse and crafty which doesn't work in the NBA all that well without space. It does with space of course.

isn’t much help as a rebounder. There aren’t many great wing players who are “soft” and that lack of physicality/toughness will be limiting in terms of being able to slide him to the 4 in different lineups. Had he been like an Otto Porter or RoCo and had a nose for rebounding you could project him as a versatile small ball PF.

I actually think is can be a good defensive rebounder for position. Coach K wanted him to commit to transition a lot and had Tre, Zion and R.J. crashing the boards who are all ++ and defensive rebounding for position. Even Bolden is a good rebounder as well. We must remember, he averaged 7 RPG in EYBL. That matters and has proven to translate. He spends a lot of time on the perimeter on offense so offensive rebounds will always be on the low end.

I will say he is not soft on defense but he does lack physicality at times but during the 2nd half of the season, we seen him take a major step up in terms of post defense and being tough. Michigan State game for example, Cam was Duke's best defender and Duke without Cam defensively in the two games he has missed as been a mess. When the games got big, his defense was great. Best defender during both the ACC and NCAA tournament. While I am not a big fan of switching him on 4's with the strength he showed last year, I do think long term he should be fine at it as we seen with Ball. I see him as a 2/3, with one 1 in him. I don't really see a 4 at all other than switchablilty. He really isn't a 4. Those two played PF in college. It's kinda of unfair to have that expectation but I get it, if we are looking at the typical 3/D wings, they all have PF experience while Cam has been a primary guard or a 3 for the most part.

The on-ball creation stuff he was doing and killing everyone in HS certainly hasn’t translated to higher levels. ATM he isn’t meeting the threshold of explosive burst, strength, craftiness to be an NBA primary/secondary creator - and again he is more of a 3 than a small ball 4, so matched up against other SFs he won’t be quick enough to get past a lot of the guys guarding him.


This is not a good statement. His on-ball creation stuff has translated. He is one of the best isolation players in the nation at Duke and he was unstoppable in space. The issue was, college basketball, Duke's spacing, personnel grouping and role. To say it hasn't translated is just wrong. This is equivalent to Stillwater's hot take that Trae Young won't be able to effectively score throughout his career in the NBA last year. I don't know how you can say that. If you think this, then you are clearly going to miss on Reddish. 100%. I personally think the entire paragraph is off. He is explosive in space which is what the tape shows. His strength is obviously an issue but it's something he can and will improve on as we seen with most college to pro prospects. It's not like he doesn't have a NBA elite body for his positions. he is the most crafty prospect in this class, wtf are you talking about? I am not sure what you are saying if you have watched him or not.

Really what the Hawks ought to do is look at a player like Trevor Ariza as a model for Cam. If he just becomes comfortable firing catch+shoot 3s and guarding his man, no question he can have a 10+ year career


I am going to put this on the same list with Trae Young being Trey Burke 2.0 and some saying he is a Black Jimmer. Trevor Ariza couldn't even shoot 3s out of college and was primarily a slasher. He didn't have any of the skills Reddish has, 3pt volume much less high end variance. :noway:

Bad takes:

Zion is the modern Rodney Rogers before college.
Trae Young is Trey Burke or Jimmer
Cam Reddish - Trevor Ariza.

Cam Reddish is going to be the 1st Cam Reddish. Just like Zion, he doesn't have a prototype.

Being elite in space like Jamal Crawford is rare.
Being a prospect who has 3pt volume and 1st round talent is rare. We got Klay Thompson who had that volume out of college.
Being a prospect with high end 3pt variance is more of a new thing in the NBA so we really don't have a catalog but him, Tyler Herro, Marshall Henderson, and Darius Garland. The list is small as it's new to the NBA much less college hoops.
Being a prospect who has movement skills and at least a prong isn't all that common for a prospect with 1st round talent.

He isn't your typical 3/D and I don't think he will ever be but he is a rare prospect if used correctly could be the best player in the NBA and if used incorrectly can be a tough piece to add to most puzzles.

Comp'ing Cam to Ariza wasn't in any way meant an insult - Trevor Ariza is really good at basketball. He was a dominant prep player (not too different from Reddish at that level) having a great pro career, and has received multiple NBA contracts totaling over $100M.. clearly he has established himself as having valuable skills that NBA teams will pay to acquire.

Tbh all this talk about system and him fitting on certain teams is a red herring and means nothing. We are talking about the toughest league in the world here, all opposing teams scout and figure out how to take away what each player does well. At the NBA level, there's nothing Reddish does with the ball in his hands that will effectively bend a defense. In halfcourt he won't be able to penetrate a set defense with his handle. Think he'll be able to get to his off-dribble pullups just fine , but teams will gladly let chuck those bc his % on thems terrible.

The only NBA "defense-bending" skill we've seen from Reddish is when he's without the ball. Still needs to get stronger but he's shown aptitude in getting to open spots and finding counters for how defenders overplay him, and generally has good footwork when he receives the pass. In other words , Reddish has two bankable skills that will get him paid: movement shooting and guarding his position.. ie Trevor Ariza. If he becomes strong/tough enough to run minutes at the 4, he could possibly rise above that and luck into an Otto Porter-type contract.

You want to die on the same lever as Clyde, illmatic12? If you are right and he is at best this Trevor Ariza, you can talk all of the **** to me as you want about this but if I am right. You got it, I am on your ass too.

So what is it going to be?
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#454 » by clyde21 » Mon Sep 2, 2019 10:26 pm

what do you mean 'if I am right'? i haven't made a single prediction. i'm saying the notion that 'your system' is somehow what's going to unlock Cam's potential because SpAcINg is **** nonsense...almost every single NBA team is doing to give him infinitely more spacing than anything he saw at the collegiate level

his problem wasn't a lack of spacing (maybe part of it)...but it was more so his own issues with inconsistency, ball-handling, decision making and finishing at the basket...none of this stuff is solved because he's all of the sudden playing in Atlanta's golden system.

and stop it with 'our system is the best' nonsense...you'd had this system with Lloyd Pierce a whopping ONE year in which you were 23rd in ORTG...whooptie doo.

so you think Klay Thompson is a better comp than Ariza? is that your issue here?
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#455 » by Duke4life831 » Mon Sep 2, 2019 10:50 pm

I'm not sure Cam could've asked for a better college system than the one he had at Duke. A top tier pass first PG, a 1st team all American guard and a player that created more gravity inside the paint than college ball has seen in a long time.

Cam was guarded by the worst wing defender every game and was presented with easy wide open catch and shoot opportunities all game long.

His playmaking was utter garbage. I don't blame K for slowly lowering his on ball responsibilities as the season went on. His ability to finish in the paint was god awful, it didn't matter if he made a bad decision and tried to drive into a heavily packed paint, or he went one on one. It seemed like 75% of the time it ended up with a turnover or missed shot.

There is one thing consistent about Cam's game going back multiple years into high school and that is he is very inconsistent.

Don't get me wrong I get why Cam was taken where he was taken. I was all for the Pels taking him at 8. But I don't think there is just some easy thing (like team system) that is going to solve all of Cam's issues. Cam is a very high risk prospect because he could easily be a bust. I think many of his issues are mental. His inconsistencies, and his tendency to disappear during games.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#456 » by Illmatic12 » Mon Sep 2, 2019 11:04 pm

King Ken wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:
King Ken wrote:
Spoiler:
I have to agree to disagree.


I 95% disagree with most of your takes on Reddish. I never really have came close to seeing what you see on him. It's about as large as how I disagreed with Stillwater last year on Trae Young. He said he is trash and Trey Burke 2.0 and I said is a generational offensive weapon. Now, he still doesn't agree with me but he at least has moved from the easy bust statements.

I actually kinda agree with your start. I too felt in the wrong situation, you are looking at a high floor, low ceiling prospect. I agree with that part and said as much even in recent posts to Stillwater. You can't use him for something he ain't. You have to play to his strengths. That highly revolves around personnel and system. In a situation like the Knicks or Cavs, I would worry about Reddish. For the Hawks, Warriors or Rockets, especially Warriors and Hawks, he is in the optimal situation. That's the difference. I felt in the wrong situation, you are talking about an extremely talented flawed prospect, in the right situation, the best player in the NBA like ability.

Athleticism is comparable to Lonzo Ball which is a GOOD and BAD thing as Zo proved his athleticism doesn't really translate in the half court offense but completely translates on defense. In general, he would have a capped potential. It's not so much that he doesn't like contact, he is just not good dealing with contact. He doesn't have the athleticism or strength to handle traffic or contact well and like Crawford and Ball, is overly finesse and crafty which doesn't work in the NBA all that well without space. It does with space of course.


I actually think is can be a good defensive rebounder for position. Coach K wanted him to commit to transition a lot and had Tre, Zion and R.J. crashing the boards who are all ++ and defensive rebounding for position. Even Bolden is a good rebounder as well. We must remember, he averaged 7 RPG in EYBL. That matters and has proven to translate. He spends a lot of time on the perimeter on offense so offensive rebounds will always be on the low end.

I will say he is not soft on defense but he does lack physicality at times but during the 2nd half of the season, we seen him take a major step up in terms of post defense and being tough. Michigan State game for example, Cam was Duke's best defender and Duke without Cam defensively in the two games he has missed as been a mess. When the games got big, his defense was great. Best defender during both the ACC and NCAA tournament. While I am not a big fan of switching him on 4's with the strength he showed last year, I do think long term he should be fine at it as we seen with Ball. I see him as a 2/3, with one 1 in him. I don't really see a 4 at all other than switchablilty. He really isn't a 4. Those two played PF in college. It's kinda of unfair to have that expectation but I get it, if we are looking at the typical 3/D wings, they all have PF experience while Cam has been a primary guard or a 3 for the most part.



This is not a good statement. His on-ball creation stuff has translated. He is one of the best isolation players in the nation at Duke and he was unstoppable in space. The issue was, college basketball, Duke's spacing, personnel grouping and role. To say it hasn't translated is just wrong. This is equivalent to Stillwater's hot take that Trae Young won't be able to effectively score throughout his career in the NBA last year. I don't know how you can say that. If you think this, then you are clearly going to miss on Reddish. 100%. I personally think the entire paragraph is off. He is explosive in space which is what the tape shows. His strength is obviously an issue but it's something he can and will improve on as we seen with most college to pro prospects. It's not like he doesn't have a NBA elite body for his positions. he is the most crafty prospect in this class, wtf are you talking about? I am not sure what you are saying if you have watched him or not.



I am going to put this on the same list with Trae Young being Trey Burke 2.0 and some saying he is a Black Jimmer. Trevor Ariza couldn't even shoot 3s out of college and was primarily a slasher. He didn't have any of the skills Reddish has, 3pt volume much less high end variance. :noway:

Bad takes:

Zion is the modern Rodney Rogers before college.
Trae Young is Trey Burke or Jimmer
Cam Reddish - Trevor Ariza.

Cam Reddish is going to be the 1st Cam Reddish. Just like Zion, he doesn't have a prototype.

Being elite in space like Jamal Crawford is rare.
Being a prospect who has 3pt volume and 1st round talent is rare. We got Klay Thompson who had that volume out of college.
Being a prospect with high end 3pt variance is more of a new thing in the NBA so we really don't have a catalog but him, Tyler Herro, Marshall Henderson, and Darius Garland. The list is small as it's new to the NBA much less college hoops.
Being a prospect who has movement skills and at least a prong isn't all that common for a prospect with 1st round talent.

He isn't your typical 3/D and I don't think he will ever be but he is a rare prospect if used correctly could be the best player in the NBA and if used incorrectly can be a tough piece to add to most puzzles.

Comp'ing Cam to Ariza wasn't in any way meant an insult - Trevor Ariza is really good at basketball. He was a dominant prep player (not too different from Reddish at that level) having a great pro career, and has received multiple NBA contracts totaling over $100M.. clearly he has established himself as having valuable skills that NBA teams will pay to acquire.

Tbh all this talk about system and him fitting on certain teams is a red herring and means nothing. We are talking about the toughest league in the world here, all opposing teams scout and figure out how to take away what each player does well. At the NBA level, there's nothing Reddish does with the ball in his hands that will effectively bend a defense. In halfcourt he won't be able to penetrate a set defense with his handle. Think he'll be able to get to his off-dribble pullups just fine , but teams will gladly let chuck those bc his % on thems terrible.

The only NBA "defense-bending" skill we've seen from Reddish is when he's without the ball. Still needs to get stronger but he's shown aptitude in getting to open spots and finding counters for how defenders overplay him, and generally has good footwork when he receives the pass. In other words , Reddish has two bankable skills that will get him paid: movement shooting and guarding his position.. ie Trevor Ariza. If he becomes strong/tough enough to run minutes at the 4, he could possibly rise above that and luck into an Otto Porter-type contract.

You want to die on the same lever as Clyde, illmatic12? If you are right and he is at best this Trevor Ariza, you can talk all of the **** to me as you want about this but if I am right. You got it, I am on your ass too.

So what is it going to be?

If you're right about what, Cam Reddish becoming a generational player? Idk man I'll prob take you up on that bet :lol:

But really though.. look, I think the Hawks are probably hoping that Cam was playing injured last season and their training staff can get his body right. But from where I'm standing, I have to factor in his poor production and game tape, which is what we can go off of at the moment.

The NBA is the toughest league out there, some guys just don't have the juice to consistently execute certain skills vs NBA competition and that's okay - you learn to stick to what you're good at, which I do think Reddish will learn to do in Atlanta. Like I said I think his defense vs 1-3 will be legit, and he can reach a Taurean Prince/Ariza level of off-movement shooting.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#457 » by Stillwater » Mon Sep 2, 2019 11:16 pm

IDK I mean I think the fit in ATL will be better for Reddish to maximize his few admirable qualities if the will remains lacking &he just doesn't improve, but I don't think fit helps him improve his areas of weakness either so...the only question is ; if he works his ass off and becomes a legit player does he make the Hawks change their system ? :wink:
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#458 » by King Ken » Mon Sep 2, 2019 11:34 pm

clyde21 wrote:so you think Klay Thompson is a better comp than Ariza? is that your issue here?

I don't think any of these comparisons are worth a **** for Cam.

Cam is an elite space player and he is just a prospect. Jamal Crawford is the only player that comes to mind who specifically compared to that. Others had that and some but that's what he has.

Klay isn't a good comparison for the sake of he was Kyle Guy(UVA) at Wuzzu under Bennett. He was a movement specialist who in the NBA developed into a FOUR prong movement player which is extremely rare and generational. (Stamina, Speed, Agility and Strength) Klay can get open four ways and uses them all. It's why he is the lethal movement wing in the history of NBA ball. I don't know or see Cam being able to gain four prongs. I have him at one (Agility) and we seen once he got the groin injury v. UNC in the 1st game, he never really could get open without it. Even with a groin, Klay can get open via speed, strength and stamina. It's possible he could develop strength considering his size especially at the 2. So two prongs is possible. 3, I doubt it. 4, LOL. No one he is gaining stamina with the way he plays defense and his motor. His stride length matched with his fluidity will always make him a monster in terms of agility actions.

Cam's volume is different than most others. He can shoot so many different type of threes. One dribble pull-ups, pull-up, transition pull-ups, stepback, 30-35fts, dribble pull-ups, in and out, hesi, combo hesis, spot-ups, movement threes. Finding guys with that type of variance is nearly impossible. You got KD, PG13, Trae, Luka, Steph, Harden, etc. Of the prospects in this draft, you got just two guys, Tyler Herro and Reddish. That means a lot in the NBA. It's probably the most accurate proof of shooting stat outside of FT% in college. Even more than volume because systems and personnel can dictate volume. But high end variance 3pt shooters translate immediately. Luka and Trae for example. It's really the thing that translated for them. The spot-ups did for them but not as much due to the attention to it.

Ariza is too limited and not that talented. Just a decent 3/D type. Not a good player and I say that as someone who had season tix to the Wizards when he was there and season tix to the Rox when I moved to HOU when he was there. Truth is, you can find his type in the late 1st round. I would be less offended if you said Harrison Barnes only who is a good NBA player and a quality 3/D type. Even though I strongly feel he will be much better. It's like saying Trae Young will be Mike Bibby. It's still a high level and worth a lottery pick.

Ariza level would be a bust and it means he didn't play him to 1/100 of his talent level which I severely doubt will happen. If you think his best is Ariza level, you think he's ass. Just facts. Ariza has so many limitations as well. If you are going to compare him to the flawed prospect with talent, Harrison Barnes even if he surpasses that level quickly is still respectable. If you say Trae Young will reach Bibby's level. I'll be happy even if I strongly believe he will be better. Ariza career level is not respectable to me. If you said, as a rookie, he could be like Ariza at his career peak, I wouldn't mind that and I would be happy with that outcome.
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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#459 » by NO-KG-AI » Tue Sep 3, 2019 1:24 am

I think the Jamal Crawford comparison is ridiculous. Jamal’s ballhandling and creativity is off the charts and we haven’t seen that at all from Cam. It’s the one thing that makes Jamal a weapon, despite all the negatives


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Re: Cameron Reddish 

Post#460 » by King Ken » Tue Sep 3, 2019 2:40 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:I think the Jamal Crawford comparison is ridiculous. Jamal’s ballhandling and creativity is off the charts and we haven’t seen that at all from Cam. It’s the one thing that makes Jamal a weapon, despite all the negatives


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You sure?







Cam has his ball handling base:




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