Deni Avdija - 2020 draft

Draft talk all year round

Moderators: Ruzious, Marcus

Stillwater
RealGM
Posts: 11,717
And1: 2,960
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#301 » by Stillwater » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:08 pm

Fischella wrote:I think Deni is going to be better in the NBA than Osman as soon as next season, Cedi is so bad on D

terrible take on Osman.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
BlazersBroncos
Analyst
Posts: 3,036
And1: 2,138
Joined: Oct 27, 2016

Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#302 » by BlazersBroncos » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:53 pm

terrible take on Osman.


I mean, he may be held back by the low talent level in Cleveland but his advanced defensive stats are quite poor and he is a negative VORP player. He also has an abysmal WS/48.

Just looking at this season, he has the 7th highest DBPM on the team (Excluded a few low minutes waiver guys) and the 10th highest WS/48. His VORP is the 2nd lowest of any rotation guy after the rookie Porter. On a 19 win team he is showing advanced stats that point to him being a lower level backup.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but your certainly going against the grain saying he and Deni are of similar talent. The crowd isn't always right but when everyone basically has one player as a SRP and one a high FRP, there is something to be said.
Stillwater
RealGM
Posts: 11,717
And1: 2,960
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#303 » by Stillwater » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:06 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:
terrible take on Osman.


I mean, he may be held back by the low talent level in Cleveland but his advanced defensive stats are quite poor and he is a negative VORP player. He also has an abysmal WS/48.

Just looking at this season, he has the 7th highest DBPM on the team (Excluded a few low minutes waiver guys) and the 10th highest WS/48. His VORP is the 2nd lowest of any rotation guy after the rookie Porter. On a 19 win team he is showing advanced stats that point to him being a lower level backup.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but your certainly going against the grain saying he and Deni are of similar talent. The crowd isn't always right but when everyone basically has one player as a SRP and one a high FRP, there is something to be said.

I will give you that he was used poorly in Beileins fd up game plan. But prior to it, unless he was forced to switch onto bigger 4's he was an above average defender on the perimeter.
Regardless Osman never developed into whp CLE had hoped as a shooter to match his playmaking from the wing, I wouldn't be confident in Deni being any more successfull given his shooting is also not reliable.
Deni does not appear to be fast enough to defend 2's and 3's and isn't long enough to defend bigger forwards either.
I will take Osman and his mobility as a end of rotation piece on a team firendly deal before I ever consider taking an overrated Avdija in the lottery.
He is a first round pick, but I could easily see him falling to the 20's.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
User avatar
j_n
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,410
And1: 1,422
Joined: Mar 19, 2010
 

Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#304 » by j_n » Fri Jul 3, 2020 7:42 am

User avatar
getrichordie
General Manager
Posts: 8,257
And1: 1,748
Joined: Oct 22, 2015
 

Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#305 » by getrichordie » Fri Jul 3, 2020 6:57 pm

j_n wrote:


That off the dribble pull up 3!

Seriously, though, I think he can be a good secondary creator at the next level in time. He's got the handles and he's a smart player. Shows good feel for the game.

I wouldn't be mad if he went #1 or #2.
#yeezy4prezzy

:basketball: 2020 BIG BOARD
Stillwater
RealGM
Posts: 11,717
And1: 2,960
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#306 » by Stillwater » Fri Jul 3, 2020 9:34 pm

getrichordie wrote:
j_n wrote:


That off the dribble pull up 3!

Seriously, though, I think he can be a good secondary creator at the next level in time. He's got the handles and he's a smart player. Shows good feel for the game.

I wouldn't be mad if he went #1 or #2.

I get the ranking by some because the bbiq is obviously very good. Lets face it right now the top ranked on most boards in Edwards looked pretty lost whenever he didn't have the ball and needs a lot of coaching despite the freakish driving finishing and upside defensively etc. I will admit the shooting of late looks a little better for Deni albeit still against inferior defenders when he makes it. He really scares me as a athlete. I don't see even average NBA athleticim from side to side or vertical only Forrest Gump type running and running and running speed in one direction.
I think he needs to be in a situation where alot of things fit otherwise he wont be that impactful as is and so for some teams he could be a top 10 pick but for most I'd say he only has value if they buy him being a lot better athlete than he has shown.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
SwipeDaFox
Ballboy
Posts: 27
And1: 38
Joined: Jul 22, 2019
 

Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#307 » by SwipeDaFox » Sat Jul 4, 2020 7:10 am

He definitely needs to be in a situation where his off-ball offensive ability is given the chance to shine.

As mentioned his IQ and understanding of where to be, when to move, how to cut is extremely evident and it comes so easy to him at his age, almost like 2nd nature.

Also how he acts from the post - reading defenses and watching defensive players rotation and then immediately reacting - those are very advanced things for a kid his age and show he really thinks the game over.

I agree his foot-speed and ability to move his legs on D would be put to the challenge at the next level though - but I think his IQ translates to the defensive side aswell - and his size and ability to mix it up on D at several positions will make up for it.
Stillwater
RealGM
Posts: 11,717
And1: 2,960
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#308 » by Stillwater » Sat Jul 4, 2020 4:51 pm

SwipeDaFox wrote:He definitely needs to be in a situation where his off-ball offensive ability is given the chance to shine.

As mentioned his IQ and understanding of where to be, when to move, how to cut is extremely evident and it comes so easy to him at his age, almost like 2nd nature.

Also how he acts from the post - reading defenses and watching defensive players rotation and then immediately reacting - those are very advanced things for a kid his age and show he really thinks the game over.

I agree his foot-speed and ability to move his legs on D would be put to the challenge at the next level though - but I think his IQ translates to the defensive side aswell - and his size and ability to mix it up on D at several positions will make up for it.

well said , esp that last part underlined here. But he does not have + length at all even at 6'8" as far as paint defense and finishing and the lack of average lateral quickness to hang out on the perimeter is a huge physical limitation regardless of positional awareness so he will not be able to get to those spots fast enough against smaller guards and will be struggling with fouls for a good part of his early years in the league... Maybe enough so he flames out if he also doesn't hot those outside shots at a high clip enough so where he can create some driving lanes and even if the shot is falling if he is drafted by a team that wont play him much if he cant defend well he still may fizzle.
Offensively if he can be a playmaker with that IQ which is a reasonable expectation he will still need to really prove to be capable of adding quickness
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
SwipeDaFox
Ballboy
Posts: 27
And1: 38
Joined: Jul 22, 2019
 

Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#309 » by SwipeDaFox » Tue Jul 7, 2020 6:38 am

Read on Twitter
User avatar
UcanUwill
RealGM
Posts: 16,591
And1: 11,990
Joined: Aug 07, 2011
   

Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#310 » by UcanUwill » Tue Jul 7, 2020 8:38 am

He looks much improved, I am starting to believe, just makes me wonder what his role would be facing Euroleague teams now?
BlazersBroncos
Analyst
Posts: 3,036
And1: 2,138
Joined: Oct 27, 2016

Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#311 » by BlazersBroncos » Tue Jul 7, 2020 3:07 pm

What are people seeing as his NBA comparison? I see a ton of Detlef in his game, but a 21st century version so more 3PT shooting on higher volume. The Seattle Detlef moreso than Indiana IMO.
Stillwater
RealGM
Posts: 11,717
And1: 2,960
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#312 » by Stillwater » Tue Jul 7, 2020 3:48 pm

UcanUwill wrote:He looks much improved, I am starting to believe, just makes me wonder what his role would be facing Euroleague teams now?

Do you see it transfer against faster best of the best athletes though? I think he is a role player fringe starter with a decent bbiq and still has room to get stronger to play the 4 where those speed issues are less of an issue defensively, but doesn't look to be long enough or explosive enough to defend the paint against NBA bigs even if he can get you 15/5/3 against lesser 2nd units
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
User avatar
UcanUwill
RealGM
Posts: 16,591
And1: 11,990
Joined: Aug 07, 2011
   

Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#313 » by UcanUwill » Tue Jul 7, 2020 3:53 pm

Stillwater wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:He looks much improved, I am starting to believe, just makes me wonder what his role would be facing Euroleague teams now?

Do you see it transfer against faster best of the best athletes though? I think he is a role player fringe starter with a decent bbiq and still has room to get stronger to play the 4 where those speed issues are less of an issue defensively, but doesn't look to be long enough or explosive enough to defend the paint against NBA bigs even if he can get you 15/5/3 against lesser 2nd units


I dont see a star at all with him, but at least he now looks like he can actually contribute, before shut down I saw him as a bust. Still they now play Israeli scrubs, you can see in the score Tel Aviv is leading by 20 in most of those games, so all the love falling for this guy should still be reasonable. He never drives to his left still, but at least his shot is falling. 6'9, can shoot, can run a fastbreak after getting a rebound, can pass, there is something there.
BlazersBroncos
Analyst
Posts: 3,036
And1: 2,138
Joined: Oct 27, 2016

Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#314 » by BlazersBroncos » Tue Jul 7, 2020 4:15 pm

I have watched a lot of clips of Deni and don't really see any issue with his shot mechanics. Decently high release, not the quickest but he isn't going to be that #1/#2 option type that is shooting many contested (Outside closeouts) or dribble pull up 3PT shots. His base is sorta off, but tons of players make it work w/o ideal mechanics.

He has a great open floor handle for a player his size albeit IDK if he will be good enough to justify taking it up the floor often, but his passing in the half court and fast break is definatley translatable. I think he can be a elite #4 or a lower tier #3 (A Hedo level #3 IMO). That's worth a very high pick in a draft that has almost nothing but questionmarks at the top. There is no way a player like LaMelo ends up helping a good team win in the ways someone like Deni can IMO. His middle ground makes him attractive as a prospect. He is the anti LaMelo / Edwards, who exemplify the boom / bust prospect IMO.
Stillwater
RealGM
Posts: 11,717
And1: 2,960
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#315 » by Stillwater » Tue Jul 7, 2020 5:39 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:I have watched a lot of clips of Deni and don't really see any issue with his shot mechanics. Decently high release, not the quickest but he isn't going to be that #1/#2 option type that is shooting many contested (Outside closeouts) or dribble pull up 3PT shots. His base is sorta off, but tons of players make it work w/o ideal mechanics.

He has a great open floor handle for a player his size albeit IDK if he will be good enough to justify taking it up the floor often, but his passing in the half court and fast break is definatley translatable. I think he can be a elite #4 or a lower tier #3 (A Hedo level #3 IMO). That's worth a very high pick in a draft that has almost nothing but questionmarks at the top. There is no way a player like LaMelo ends up helping a good team win in the ways someone like Deni can IMO. His middle ground makes him attractive as a prospect. He is the anti LaMelo / Edwards, who exemplify the boom / bust prospect IMO.

I think it's wrong too assume what he does well will tranfer to this level easily.
I think he "has to" get a lot stronger if he wants any hope of being a starter in the NBA and play the 4 full time, at least then he can fight for positioning some despite his lack of hops and length defensively there. I mean any pf with his vision and his potential as better consistent playmaker and floor stretcher has a role player position in the NBA.
Unfortunately as is, he is absolutley not a high lottery pick ( in most drafts) valued prospect imo unless he shows the ability to dominate from the sf position creating for others and stretching the floor with elite shooting paired with attacking the rim at will.
Those things he is not and likely never will be despite maybe getting overpaid for the potential as a playmaking forward in this weak class.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
darmani
Pro Prospect
Posts: 898
And1: 1,023
Joined: Dec 20, 2018
 

Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#316 » by darmani » Tue Jul 7, 2020 6:20 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:What are people seeing as his NBA comparison? I see a ton of Detlef in his game, but a 21st century version so more 3PT shooting on higher volume. The Seattle Detlef moreso than Indiana IMO.

old Grant Hill / Lamar Odom / more sane and slower laterally Josh Jackson
"Can’t talk basketball with everybody" - Devin Booker
Soul Rebel
Junior
Posts: 300
And1: 143
Joined: Jun 10, 2015
Location: Honolulu : SEA : CLT
Contact:
         

Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#317 » by Soul Rebel » Tue Jul 7, 2020 7:30 pm

For those that have watched more of Avdija, does anyone think his athleticism is reminiscent of the knocks on Klay when he came out?

Not comparing other aspects of their games, but just the athletic, "not sure if he can keep up with NBA athleticism" critiques that guys like he and Devin Booker had.
Image
User avatar
EvanZ
General Manager
Posts: 7,620
And1: 1,422
Joined: Apr 06, 2011

Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#318 » by EvanZ » Tue Jul 7, 2020 7:44 pm

Soul Rebel wrote:For those that have watched more of Avdija, does anyone think his athleticism is reminiscent of the knocks on Klay when he came out?

Not comparing other aspects of their games, but just the athletic, "not sure if he can keep up with NBA athleticism" critiques that guys like he and Devin Booker had.


Not to mention Luka. Deni isn't an elite athlete obviously, but honestly I'm probably more worried about his lack of length than lack of athleticism.
User avatar
TurboTitan
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,967
And1: 1,720
Joined: Jul 12, 2013
Location: Windsor, ON
   

Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#319 » by TurboTitan » Tue Jul 7, 2020 8:17 pm

Doncic comparisons are lazy
“We don't see ourselves as All-Stars. We see ourselves as one unit. It's like five fingers on a hand. You can do more damage together as a fist than spread out flat.” ~SHEED
User avatar
Mattya
RealGM
Posts: 14,611
And1: 3,670
Joined: Aug 08, 2008
   

Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#320 » by Mattya » Tue Jul 7, 2020 8:33 pm

He looks like the SF version of Dario Saric with significantly more speed.

Return to NBA Draft