Deni Avdija - 2020 draft

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Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#381 » by prime1time » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:38 am

I like him. I understand the drawbacks but mentally speaking he processes the game so fast. In this aspect, he's light years ahead of other NBA prospects who approach the game with a completely different perspective. There are concerns on the defensive end, but with the ability to shoot, put the ball on the floor, create for others and read the game quickly it's really too much to pass up. He has one of the highest floors in the draft and is an offensive player I can see him being a great secondary or tertiary piece. Not a #1, but a guy who plays off of that guy. This is the kind of player the Spurs draft. If you're looking for a superstar he's not your guy. But if you're looking for a solid player to play basketball the right way, establish a winning culture and be a great complimentary piece, I think Advija should be high on your list. I would take him in the top 5 and would be elated if he falls to the Wizards.
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Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#382 » by Mirotic12 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:17 pm

Stillwater wrote:
BlazersBroncos wrote:
He cant play the 3 defensively at a high level, his lateral speed is meh.


I mean, he isnt going to be a defensive stopper but he should be able to play SF defense well enough to not be a liability IMO. If Cedi can defend SF, so can Deni.

I would bet Osman is Longer and faster... but whatever I think Deni could survive in a rotation there just not against anyone good and certainly not as a high minutes guy


Osman? Yes, Avdija is definitely getting overrated in US sports media, but Osman? Avdija is a way more gifted and talented player than Osman is.

I saw Osman play for years in Europe. He was never more than an energy glue guy that made hustle plays.
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Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#383 » by King Ken » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:49 pm

He's a pro but he got no NBA stardom in him. He's like DeAndre Hunter was last year, just better on offense, worse on defense with worse shooting and less defensive versatility while having more offensive versatility
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Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#384 » by Stillwater » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:50 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
BlazersBroncos wrote:
I mean, he isnt going to be a defensive stopper but he should be able to play SF defense well enough to not be a liability IMO. If Cedi can defend SF, so can Deni.

I would bet Osman is Longer and faster... but whatever I think Deni could survive in a rotation there just not against anyone good and certainly not as a high minutes guy


Osman? Yes, Avdija is definitely getting overrated in US sports media, but Osman? Avdija is a way more gifted and talented player than Osman is.

I saw Osman play for years in Europe. He was never more than an energy glue guy that made hustle plays.

which is exactly what I see Avdija as in the NBA. Granted he does play with a different bbiq
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Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#385 » by TB » Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:54 pm

Deni winning the MVP seems a little bit of a reach right?

I guess because he was one of the best guys on the best team... but they really shared the wealth when it comes to scoring, initiating offense, and defense. And other players in the league out performed him statistically by a large margin.

I only saw a few games, so i'm mostly asking if my assumption is correct, or if he was clearly the best player and the stats just don't back it.
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Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#386 » by King Ken » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:17 pm

TB wrote:Deni winning the MVP seems a little bit of a reach right?

I guess because he was one of the best guys on the best team... but they really shared the wealth when it comes to scoring, initiating offense, and defense. And other players in the league out performed him statistically by a large margin.

I only saw a few games, so i'm mostly asking if my assumption is correct, or if he was clearly the best player and the stats just don't back it.

He should win this. The Israeli league isn't the Greek, Spanish, or French league. It's just an average European league.
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Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#387 » by j_n » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:10 pm

TB wrote:Deni winning the MVP seems a little bit of a reach right?

I guess because he was one of the best guys on the best team... but they really shared the wealth when it comes to scoring, initiating offense, and defense. And other players in the league out performed him statistically by a large margin.

I only saw a few games, so i'm mostly asking if my assumption is correct, or if he was clearly the best player and the stats just don't back it.

No, he was clearly not worthy of the league MVP, I think it was 50% fan voting, he did improve a lot over the season and was arguably the MVP post covid but overall he wasn't close.
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Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#388 » by TB » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:15 pm

j_n wrote:
TB wrote:Deni winning the MVP seems a little bit of a reach right?

I guess because he was one of the best guys on the best team... but they really shared the wealth when it comes to scoring, initiating offense, and defense. And other players in the league out performed him statistically by a large margin.

I only saw a few games, so i'm mostly asking if my assumption is correct, or if he was clearly the best player and the stats just don't back it.

No, he was clearly not worthy of the league MVP, I think it was 50% fan voting, he did improve a lot over the season and was arguably the MVP post covid but overall he wasn't close.


Thanks. Ya, this is how it seemed to me. He played well in the re-start and his team won the title.... but he didn't end up top 10 in basically any statistical category.
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Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#389 » by Mirotic12 » Sat Aug 1, 2020 2:15 pm

TB wrote:Deni winning the MVP seems a little bit of a reach right?

I guess because he was one of the best guys on the best team... but they really shared the wealth when it comes to scoring, initiating offense, and defense. And other players in the league out performed him statistically by a large margin.

I only saw a few games, so i'm mostly asking if my assumption is correct, or if he was clearly the best player and the stats just don't back it.


He was nowhere near to being the real MVP. The league in Israel is clearly trying to market him very strongly to the NBA. Which is odd really, because they obviously don't need to do that. But it really doesn't matter, because no one in Europe really cares about who wins the MVP in the IBSL league. It probably wouldn't even get a player more money in free agency.
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Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#390 » by Leslie Forman » Sat Aug 1, 2020 4:43 pm

kobyz wrote:such a high ceiling to this kid, Jimmy Butler/Gordon Hayward type

This kid doesn't have anywhere near Butler/Hayward athleticism.
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Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#391 » by doordoor123 » Sat Aug 1, 2020 4:50 pm

King Ken wrote:He's a pro but he got no NBA stardom in him. He's like DeAndre Hunter was last year, just better on offense, worse on defense with worse shooting and less defensive versatility while having more offensive versatility


He’s a worse prospect than Hunter was and Hunter is still going to be a really good player.
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Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#392 » by Klomp » Mon Aug 3, 2020 6:05 am

How big and strong are his hands? It seems like in recent highlights he's been palming the ball with ease.
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Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#393 » by EMG518 » Mon Aug 3, 2020 7:17 am

doordoor123 wrote:
King Ken wrote:He's a pro but he got no NBA stardom in him. He's like DeAndre Hunter was last year, just better on offense, worse on defense with worse shooting and less defensive versatility while having more offensive versatility


He’s a worse prospect than Hunter was and Hunter is still going to be a really good player.


Debatable whom was the better prospect. I prefer to take my chances on Deni with a pick than Hunter last year.
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Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#394 » by doordoor123 » Mon Aug 3, 2020 2:54 pm

EMG518 wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:
King Ken wrote:He's a pro but he got no NBA stardom in him. He's like DeAndre Hunter was last year, just better on offense, worse on defense with worse shooting and less defensive versatility while having more offensive versatility


He’s a worse prospect than Hunter was and Hunter is still going to be a really good player.


Debatable whom was the better prospect. I prefer to take my chances on Deni with a pick than Hunter last year.


I love Israeli players so I even have a bias for Deni, but he doesn't have the versatility Hunter has and potential upside. And a part of me is wondering if I'm saying that because Deni is white, but I'm also not saying Deni can't be a great player. The likelyhood of any of these picks, even top draft picks becoming stars is very low. If you look at previous drafts its very unlikely many stars are created. And yet every year everyone pretends like anyone can be a star. Hunter is already moderately successful in the NBA, you can see his upside now though. With Deni, until he's in the NBA we have no idea what he'll become. He also doesn't really have a role yet at the next level and isnt the type of player who is going to come in scoring with a lot of touches like he does now. Deni is in no way a sure thing in a draft that is considered to be a weak draft by a lot of draft "experts," GMs and scouts.
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Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#395 » by King Ken » Mon Aug 3, 2020 3:24 pm

EMG518 wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:
King Ken wrote:He's a pro but he got no NBA stardom in him. He's like DeAndre Hunter was last year, just better on offense, worse on defense with worse shooting and less defensive versatility while having more offensive versatility


He’s a worse prospect than Hunter was and Hunter is still going to be a really good player.


Debatable whom was the better prospect. I prefer to take my chances on Deni with a pick than Hunter last year.

Both are the same tier for me. I like Hunter more because I do think he has a chance to be an 8 at the 2, 3, and 4 eventually while Deni will likely be a quality 8 at the 4. Deni does have a better offensive package as a prospect.
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Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#396 » by Klomp » Mon Aug 3, 2020 3:42 pm

Right or wrong, there seems to be a hesitation when looking at prospects from countries where there is not a rich heritage of players going to the NBA. I wonder sometimes if that could be the case for Avdija when seeing opinions from skeptics. But he actually has a Serbian/Yugoslavian background, as his father played pro basketball for Yugoslavia in the 1980s, even playing on the national team at the 1982 FIBA World Championship.
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Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#397 » by doordoor123 » Mon Aug 3, 2020 4:00 pm

Klomp wrote:Right or wrong, there seems to be a hesitation when looking at prospects from countries where there is not a rich heritage of players going to the NBA. I wonder sometimes if that could be the case for Avdija when seeing opinions from skeptics. But he actually has a Serbian/Yugoslavian background, as his father played pro basketball for Yugoslavia in the 1980s, even playing on the national team at the 1982 FIBA World Championship.


Whats interesting is the 2013 draft, when there was a bunch of good draft picks that slid down because they were international prospects. International prospects have such weird picks because when they're really good they get underrated and when they're just okay they get overrated. NBA teams have a bias when it comes to drafting college players versus international players. If Porzingis was in college there would have been a debate between him and Karl-Anthony Towns going 1 overall. Luka Doncic was so influential in that respect with the infamous trade between him and Young. It changed the way we think about international prospects. There is a bias against international prospects, but sometimes its warranted. Like Geogios Papagiannis should have no way been a lottery pick. Guershon Yabusele shouldn't have been as high as he was, etc. Then there are a lot of guys who over-promise. Like Mario Hezonja, Dario Saric, Cedi Osman, Juancho Hernangomez, Dzanan Musa. These aren't bad players, but they were highly touted and became just average players. This is a really interesting topic.
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Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#398 » by clyde21 » Mon Aug 3, 2020 6:31 pm

the NBA today is more wide open and really there are way more roles to fit within a team than there was back in 2013, you can get minutes if you're just a shooter, or you can get minutes if you're an energy big off the bench, or if you're a secondary handler, etc...7 years ago a lot of the positions were more locked in, now it's a bit more open for Euro prospects to find a role/niche within a team

also I think in general euro prospects are really just getting better, you can see the development in europe is starting to really catch up with America's tbh

Goga last yr for example was a super skilled 7 footer at 18 years old, we almost never see that from American prospects right now, we have another one this year with Poku, next year you got guys like Garuba and Roko, etc.
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Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#399 » by Revenged25 » Mon Aug 3, 2020 8:44 pm

prime1time wrote:I like him. I understand the drawbacks but mentally speaking he processes the game so fast. In this aspect, he's light years ahead of other NBA prospects who approach the game with a completely different perspective. There are concerns on the defensive end, but with the ability to shoot, put the ball on the floor, create for others and read the game quickly it's really too much to pass up. He has one of the highest floors in the draft and is an offensive player I can see him being a great secondary or tertiary piece. Not a #1, but a guy who plays off of that guy. This is the kind of player the Spurs draft. If you're looking for a superstar he's not your guy. But if you're looking for a solid player to play basketball the right way, establish a winning culture and be a great complimentary piece, I think Advija should be high on your list. I would take him in the top 5 and would be elated if he falls to the Wizards.


I've seen several places compare him to Hedo Turkoglu lately and that sounds pretty spot on with what you think as well. I also think he's more likely to hit that level of player than a lot of the other players hitting their slightly higher ceilings while having much lower floors.

This draft specifically, after the top tier high ceiling guys in Edwards, Ball, and Wiseman, it might be better to go for the high floor guys like Toppin/Deni that you know will give you a solid starter for 10-15 years and maybe one or two All-Star seasons when everything falls into place compared to someone where you might get a multiple All-Star or he might be out of the league before his rookie contract is even up.
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Re: Deni Avdija - 2020 draft 

Post#400 » by Thedragonking » Tue Aug 4, 2020 3:25 pm

doordoor123 wrote:
Klomp wrote:Right or wrong, there seems to be a hesitation when looking at prospects from countries where there is not a rich heritage of players going to the NBA. I wonder sometimes if that could be the case for Avdija when seeing opinions from skeptics. But he actually has a Serbian/Yugoslavian background, as his father played pro basketball for Yugoslavia in the 1980s, even playing on the national team at the 1982 FIBA World Championship.


Whats interesting is the 2013 draft, when there was a bunch of good draft picks that slid down because they were international prospects. International prospects have such weird picks because when they're really good they get underrated and when they're just okay they get overrated. NBA teams have a bias when it comes to drafting college players versus international players. If Porzingis was in college there would have been a debate between him and Karl-Anthony Towns going 1 overall. Luka Doncic was so influential in that respect with the infamous trade between him and Young. It changed the way we think about international prospects. There is a bias against international prospects, but sometimes its warranted. Like Geogios Papagiannis should have no way been a lottery pick. Guershon Yabusele shouldn't have been as high as he was, etc. Then there are a lot of guys who over-promise. Like Mario Hezonja, Dario Saric, Cedi Osman, Juancho Hernangomez, Dzanan Musa. These aren't bad players, but they were highly touted and became just average players. This is a really interesting topic.



So true!

Just look at mark gasol, winning 2006 gold medal with the Spanish national team + plenty of playing time with girona, (33.4 mpg),
winning the ACB Most Valuable Player Award!

He avarged 16.2 ppg and 8.3 rebounds in the spanish league before entering the draft.

Going to the nba draft and being selected with just the 48th overall pick

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