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unless he shows the ability to dominate from the sf position creating for others and stretching the floor with elite shooting paired with attacking the rim at will.

What? Your describing a top 3-5 pick here in any draft. Deni is probably a 8-15 type talent, that's a spot where your looking for a high caliber role player.

Its like saying a big isn't worth a lotto pick unless he can defend the rim, defend the PNR, rebound at an elite level, pass at least mediocre and shoot the 3 at a 40% clip. That isn't a late lotto talent, that's a elite player.

I dunno. 18 pages so far on this kid and he looks to me a guy who's a consummate pro at a ridiculously early age but the tools are not starter level so far.

He may end up having a high ceiling but I don't see quality starter in his near future. I think he's being overrated at high lottery levels.

jezzerinho wrote:I dunno. 18 pages so far on this kid and he looks to me a guy who's a consummate pro at a ridiculously early age but the tools are not starter level so far.

He may end up having a high ceiling but I don't see quality starter in his near future. I think he's being overrated at high lottery levels.

I would disagree with saying he doesn't have starter level tools, if by tools you mean size/athleticism. If by tools, you mean his PDS/IQ stuff, I'd also disagree.

BlazersBroncos wrote:

unless he shows the ability to dominate from the sf position creating for others and stretching the floor with elite shooting paired with attacking the rim at will.

What? Your describing a top 3-5 pick here in any draft. Deni is probably a 8-15 type talent, that's a spot where your looking for a high caliber role player.

Its like saying a big isn't worth a lotto pick unless he can defend the rim, defend the PNR, rebound at an elite level, pass at least mediocre and shoot the 3 at a 40% clip. That isn't a late lotto talent, that's a elite player.

not sure why you only responded to part of it which made it out of context...
you just contradicted yourself now claiming he is a 8-15 level talent after you said in the quote I responded too initially
you said: "That's worth a very high pick in a draft that has almost nothing but questionmarks at the top. There is no way a player like LaMelo ends up helping a good team win in the ways someone like Deni can IMO."
See right there you suggested Avdija is a better prospect than Ball which is a top 5 lock in this draft.

BlazersBroncos wrote:What are people seeing as his NBA comparison? I see a ton of Detlef in his game, but a 21st century version so more 3PT shooting on higher volume. The Seattle Detlef moreso than Indiana IMO.

I think you hope for Hedo Turkoglu type secondary playmaker who can be a 3rd-4th scoring option and offers positional versatility.

See right there you suggested Avdija is a better prospect than Ball which is a top 5 lock in this draft.

I think Ball is a R2 prospect. I absolutely hate him.

BlazersBroncos wrote:

See right there you suggested Avdija is a better prospect than Ball which is a top 5 lock in this draft.

I think Ball is a R2 prospect. I absolutely hate him.

Nice... sounds like you have about as much love for him as I did for Reddish last time.
I get it there are a lot of things to dislike, but there are obviously positive things you are overlooking because of the family I guess.
I don't like him for CLE because he is a flight risk and probably a head case, but I don't discount the elite bbiq despite the negative aspect of his lack of interest to play defense in a meaningless league.

Nice... sounds like you have about as much love for him as I did for Reddish last time.
I get it there are a lot of things to dislike, but there are obviously positive things you are overlooking because of the family I guess.
I don't like him for CLE because he is a flight risk and probably a head case, but I don't discount the elite bbiq despite the negative aspect of his lack of interest to play defense in a meaningless league.

Family and character have little to do with me disliking him. I think Lonzo is going to be a elite level role player on some championship caliber teams someday. Not even sure which team(s), but he is going to be one of the better glue guys of his generation.

LaMelo is a guy that will only impact the game if he is extremely high usage, and I don't believe he ever will justify being high usage. His shot is horrible, his effort is up and down, he isn't great at finishing and has zero mid range game to speak of. He is abysmal on defense and his passing will mean nothing in a half court set if guys aren't afraid of him scoring. He has good open court passing and a nice handle for 6'8. But I don't think he is close to the prospect his brother was, and I have zero faith that he can rebrand himself as an elite role player utility guy like his brother.

getrichordie wrote:

jezzerinho wrote:I dunno. 18 pages so far on this kid and he looks to me a guy who's a consummate pro at a ridiculously early age but the tools are not starter level so far.

He may end up having a high ceiling but I don't see quality starter in his near future. I think he's being overrated at high lottery levels.

I would disagree with saying he doesn't have starter level tools, if by tools you mean size/athleticism. If by tools, you mean his PDS/IQ stuff, I'd also disagree.

I don't see fluidity, burst, shake, footwork that shouts lottery athlete. I see a guy who lives eats and breathes bball, who's a workaholic and a smart kid, levelheaded and focused.

That can get you a long way, which is why I wouldn't bet against him being a starter on sheer will.

But I don't see what will make him a guy opposition's have to plan for in a serious way.

EvanZ wrote:

Soul Rebel wrote:For those that have watched more of Avdija, does anyone think his athleticism is reminiscent of the knocks on Klay when he came out?

Not comparing other aspects of their games, but just the athletic, "not sure if he can keep up with NBA athleticism" critiques that guys like he and Devin Booker had.

Not to mention Luka. Deni isn't an elite athlete obviously, but honestly I'm probably more worried about his lack of length than lack of athleticism.

Luka had the same knocks I called him bust. Look how good he is now. Denis athleticism is very comparable to Luka it wont be the reason he will fail in the NBA.

After seeing Deni mentioning the Bulls as his favorite team and Bulls have international guy in AK, he will absolutely become a bull at #7. Best SF prospect in the draft that fits the teams need most and foward is arguably the most imp position in the NBA. I expect a Hedo type career.

BlazersBroncos wrote:

Nice... sounds like you have about as much love for him as I did for Reddish last time.
I get it there are a lot of things to dislike, but there are obviously positive things you are overlooking because of the family I guess.
I don't like him for CLE because he is a flight risk and probably a head case, but I don't discount the elite bbiq despite the negative aspect of his lack of interest to play defense in a meaningless league.

Family and character have little to do with me disliking him. I think Lonzo is going to be a elite level role player on some championship caliber teams someday. Not even sure which team(s), but he is going to be one of the better glue guys of his generation.

LaMelo is a guy that will only impact the game if he is extremely high usage, and I don't believe he ever will justify being high usage. His shot is horrible, his effort is up and down, he isn't great at finishing and has zero mid range game to speak of. He is abysmal on defense and his passing will mean nothing in a half court set if guys aren't afraid of him scoring. He has good open court passing and a nice handle for 6'8. But I don't think he is close to the prospect his brother was, and I have zero faith that he can rebrand himself as an elite role player utility guy like his brother.

Hmm...your pre-draft take on Lonzo doesn't scream "elite level role player" to me.

I think Lonzo is going to be a really bad defender, bullied by SG and crossed over by PG. And I think he is only going to be efficient scoring on the break and with a set 3PT shot. The main issue is that he cant create off the dribble and score, and with the wind-up in his shot, I cant see him ever becoming a good pull up jumpshooter. He simply isn't a guy that can be seen as a first option so if your taking him, its to be, ideally, the 3rd wheel in a 'big 3' IMO. I think his ceiling is similar to Doc Rivers honestly, with less proficient assist numbers and more 3PT shooting (Mostly due to the difference in era).

BlazersBroncos wrote:

See right there you suggested Avdija is a better prospect than Ball which is a top 5 lock in this draft.

I think Ball is a R2 prospect. I absolutely hate him.

woahhhh, thought I was low on Lamelo

EvanZ wrote:

BlazersBroncos wrote:

Nice... sounds like you have about as much love for him as I did for Reddish last time.
I get it there are a lot of things to dislike, but there are obviously positive things you are overlooking because of the family I guess.
I don't like him for CLE because he is a flight risk and probably a head case, but I don't discount the elite bbiq despite the negative aspect of his lack of interest to play defense in a meaningless league.

Family and character have little to do with me disliking him. I think Lonzo is going to be a elite level role player on some championship caliber teams someday. Not even sure which team(s), but he is going to be one of the better glue guys of his generation.

LaMelo is a guy that will only impact the game if he is extremely high usage, and I don't believe he ever will justify being high usage. His shot is horrible, his effort is up and down, he isn't great at finishing and has zero mid range game to speak of. He is abysmal on defense and his passing will mean nothing in a half court set if guys aren't afraid of him scoring. He has good open court passing and a nice handle for 6'8. But I don't think he is close to the prospect his brother was, and I have zero faith that he can rebrand himself as an elite role player utility guy like his brother.

Hmm...your pre-draft take on Lonzo doesn't scream "elite level role player" to me.

I think Lonzo is going to be a really bad defender, bullied by SG and crossed over by PG. And I think he is only going to be efficient scoring on the break and with a set 3PT shot. The main issue is that he cant create off the dribble and score, and with the wind-up in his shot, I cant see him ever becoming a good pull up jumpshooter. He simply isn't a guy that can be seen as a first option so if your taking him, its to be, ideally, the 3rd wheel in a 'big 3' IMO. I think his ceiling is similar to Doc Rivers honestly, with less proficient assist numbers and more 3PT shooting (Mostly due to the difference in era).

What is the point of doing this?

People's opinions can change and simply because they are wrong about one guy, doesn't mean they are necessarily wrong about another. I'm sure you have your fair share of bad takes in the past. But you are probably a "play it safe" kind of guy. A fence sitter.

getrichordie wrote:
What is the point of doing this?

People's opinions can change and simply because they are wrong about one guy, doesn't mean they are necessarily wrong about another. I'm sure you have your fair share of bad takes in the past. But you are probably a "play it safe" kind of guy. A fence sitter.

The point is acknowledging when you were wrong on a guy if you're going to bring up that guy as a comp for his own damn brother.

EvanZ wrote:

getrichordie wrote:
What is the point of doing this?

People's opinions can change and simply because they are wrong about one guy, doesn't mean they are necessarily wrong about another. I'm sure you have your fair share of bad takes in the past. But you are probably a "play it safe" kind of guy. A fence sitter.

The point is acknowledging when you were wrong on a guy if you're going to bring up that guy as a comp for his own damn brother.

The discussion did not call for acknowledgement that he was wrong on a guy. You really just seem intent on making others look as bad as you can. It's really quite pathetic. You should really do some self-analysis.

Furthermore, you are consistently disrespectful to others on this board pretty much every chance you get. You are a classic case of someone who likes to put others down to make yourself feel better. Chill.

Showtime23 wrote:

EvanZ wrote:

Soul Rebel wrote:For those that have watched more of Avdija, does anyone think his athleticism is reminiscent of the knocks on Klay when he came out?

Not comparing other aspects of their games, but just the athletic, "not sure if he can keep up with NBA athleticism" critiques that guys like he and Devin Booker had.

Not to mention Luka. Deni isn't an elite athlete obviously, but honestly I'm probably more worried about his lack of length than lack of athleticism.

Luka had the same knocks I called him bust. Look how good he is now. Denis athleticism is very comparable to Luka it wont be the reason he will fail in the NBA.

After seeing Deni mentioning the Bulls as his favorite team and Bulls have international guy in AK, he will absolutely become a bull at #7. Best SF prospect in the draft that fits the teams need most and foward is arguably the most imp position in the NBA. I expect a Hedo type career.

Whoa there.

Luka was a superstar in Madrid, running a team at 18 and delivering them -virtually singlehandedly - the most important trophies outside the US with a dazzling combination of craft, maturity, leadership, desire, skills, footwork, defense.....

Avdija is a decent role player on a team in Israel's second division.

I'm guessing you can spot the difference.


Could Avdija becom Hedo 2.0? As a Magic fan, I doubt it, but wouldn't write it off either. I just don't think this kid is the upper lottery talent some feel he is.

jezzerinho wrote:

Showtime23 wrote:

EvanZ wrote:
Not to mention Luka. Deni isn't an elite athlete obviously, but honestly I'm probably more worried about his lack of length than lack of athleticism.

Luka had the same knocks I called him bust. Look how good he is now. Denis athleticism is very comparable to Luka it wont be the reason he will fail in the NBA.

After seeing Deni mentioning the Bulls as his favorite team and Bulls have international guy in AK, he will absolutely become a bull at #7. Best SF prospect in the draft that fits the teams need most and foward is arguably the most imp position in the NBA. I expect a Hedo type career.

Whoa there.

Luka was a superstar in Madrid, running a team at 18 and delivering them -virtually singlehandedly - the most important trophies outside the US with a dazzling combination of craft, maturity, leadership, desire, skills, footwork, defense.....

Avdija is a decent role player on a team in Israel's second division.

I'm guessing you can spot the difference.


Could Avdija becom Hedo 2.0? As a Magic fan, I doubt it, but wouldn't write it off either. I just don't think this kid is the upper lottery talent some feel he is.

That’s just incorrect.

He is a decent role player on a top 5 Euroleague team and a perennial Israeli league champion.

jezzerinho wrote:
Whoa there.

Luka was a superstar in Madrid, running a team at 18 and delivering them -virtually singlehandedly - the most important trophies outside the US with a dazzling combination of craft, maturity, leadership, desire, skills, footwork, defense.....

Avdija is a decent role player on a team in Israel's second division.

I'm guessing you can spot the difference.

Could Avdija becom Hedo 2.0? As a Magic fan, I doubt it, but wouldn't write it off either. I just don't think this kid is the upper lottery talent some feel he is.

Hm... I spot nonsense.
Deni is certainly not Luka. And there're chances no one like Luka appear in like... ever...

But "a decent role player on a team in Israel's second division"?? Where from it even come?

Maccabi Tel-Aviv this year is top-5 Euroleague team. And Avdija was (or more - became as season progressed) a decent role player for top-5 Euroleague team which is very rare success for kid which turn 19 only in January.

He's also one of best player in I-BSL which is not "second division" but the first division and he's playing for the best team in this league - not for the worst one like LaMelo played in NBL.

Avdija is a top player in Israel's first division

jezzerinho wrote:I dunno. 18 pages so far on this kid and he looks to me a guy who's a consummate pro at a ridiculously early age but the tools are not starter level so far.

He may end up having a high ceiling but I don't see quality starter in his near future. I think he's being overrated at high lottery levels.

You can only draft from whats available bro and its a weak draft. If a draft consists of Lebron. Durant, Jamal Crawford and a bunch of guys that look like say...Nwora, well I guess Jamal Crawford is worthy of the 3rd pick. And obviously there's other things that go along with it. I expect an upperclassman to be more skilled than a lottery pick these days as lotto picks are typically one and done players and have to make some projection (that's often wrong) about the lottery players potential in yr 2 or 3 and so forth but to say what you're saying you have to then feel another prospect projected after him would be a better choice. Not simply say that ones under or overated. Overrated compared to who?

You do have recourse though. You can say that this draft might be a good one to trade out of or trade back.