Hall Of Fame Hits

[ayyayyron]

I was all over Giannis since draft day. I saw his build, wingspan, and mindset and was confident that he'd develop into an all-star at the very least. I was right on that part, though I did think he'd turn into more of a KD-type player than the Shaq-type beast who just won 2 MVPs.

That makes me 1 for 2 on Bucks draft predictions - I'm still trying to forget the praise I gave Jabari Parker back in the day

[jman3134]

I was all over Giannis since draft day. I saw his build, wingspan, and mindset and was confident that he'd develop into an all-star at the very least. I was right on that part, though I did think he'd turn into more of a KD-type player than the Shaq-type beast who just won 2 MVPs.

That makes me 1 for 2 on Bucks draft predictions - I'm still trying to forget the praise I gave Jabari Parker back in the day

Yes, because they picked him at 15. You did not find this kid. He was in third division Greece.

[treefi]

i wanted to boast myself how I was dead right on Hezonja, but I found all 2015 thread of his, and I am honestly was too generous, way way too generous, was just afraid to go all in and said how overrated I really thought he was. I said I dont see star potential unless he really develops into an elite shooter, which I guess was fair. But I did said that IMO Bellinelli and JR Smith were more talented.

find those quotes and bring um through. lol. I have one in mind but the search function is down. Somebody pretty much accurately predicted Steph Curry's MVP type numbers before he got in the league. I would have thought whoever that was would have been first up to bat to take the credit on that one.

I think that might be me.

i've been saying this since curry's very first game against north carolina... he can be an NBA superstar... of course this always leads to 'too skinny'.. 'ball-hog'... 'too short'... 'can't play point'.. 'can't play the 2'.. 'doesn't play defense'.. 'good bench player at best'...

well ... just wait, doubters... players like curry don't come around often... he will find ways to be successful, always.. in 3 years he will have the highest basketball IQ in entire league... combine that with one of the best jump shots... it's so obvious, i just don't understand how people can't see it.

[treefi]

everyone will soon realize stephen curry is the best player from this draft class. he can be a superstar in a few years. i see him putting up 12ppg - 2rpg - 6apg - 2spg this year in 25-28mpg and 24ppg - 4rpg - 9apg - 3spg in his prime.

i've been on board since his very first game against north carolina. he's special. the real deal. it's so obvious... most of you are so blind.

stephen curry >>> o.j. mayo

I was just a kid then. Weird.

[Marcus]

i wanted to boast myself how I was dead right on Hezonja, but I found all 2015 thread of his, and I am honestly was too generous, way way too generous, was just afraid to go all in and said how overrated I really thought he was. I said I dont see star potential unless he really develops into an elite shooter, which I guess was fair. But I did said that IMO Bellinelli and JR Smith were more talented.

find those quotes and bring um through. lol. I have one in mind but the search function is down. Somebody pretty much accurately predicted Steph Curry's MVP type numbers before he got in the league. I would have thought whoever that was would have been first up to bat to take the credit on that one.

I think that might be me.

i've been saying this since curry's very first game against north carolina... he can be an NBA superstar... of course this always leads to 'too skinny'.. 'ball-hog'... 'too short'... 'can't play point'.. 'can't play the 2'.. 'doesn't play defense'.. 'good bench player at best'...

well ... just wait, doubters... players like curry don't come around often... he will find ways to be successful, always.. in 3 years he will have the highest basketball IQ in entire league... combine that with one of the best jump shots... it's so obvious, i just don't understand how people can't see it.

Wasn't that one. Someone had called damn near exact stats from an MVP season. But this is fantastic insight.

[Marcus]

everyone will soon realize stephen curry is the best player from this draft class. he can be a superstar in a few years. i see him putting up 12ppg - 2rpg - 6apg - 2spg this year in 25-28mpg and 24ppg - 4rpg - 9apg - 3spg in his prime.

i've been on board since his very first game against north carolina. he's special. the real deal. it's so obvious... most of you are so blind.

stephen curry >>> o.j. mayo

I was just a kid then. Weird.

Yeah this is the one!!!! I was off on the numbers but this was a fantastic call. You sir are the reason for the thread

[treefi]

everyone will soon realize stephen curry is the best player from this draft class. he can be a superstar in a few years. i see him putting up 12ppg - 2rpg - 6apg - 2spg this year in 25-28mpg and 24ppg - 4rpg - 9apg - 3spg in his prime.

i've been on board since his very first game against north carolina. he's special. the real deal. it's so obvious... most of you are so blind.

stephen curry >>> o.j. mayo

I was just a kid then. Weird.

Yeah this is the one!!!! I was off on the numbers but this was a fantastic call. You sir are the reason for the thread

I don't remember being such a dick about it back then sorry about that.

Just got lucky really. I noticed his unbelievable shooting ability early on by randomly catching that North Carolina game. Then I kept watching him play, and you know how that goes. He kept delivering in the clutch unlike anyone else. Plus I figured he grew up around professional NBA players his entire life. After I saw him easily shift to point guard at Davidson, I was convinced he'd be a future superstar.

[Marcus]

I was just a kid then. Weird.

Yeah this is the one!!!! I was off on the numbers but this was a fantastic call. You sir are the reason for the thread

I don't remember being such a dick about it back then sorry about that.

Just got lucky really. I noticed his unbelievable shooting ability early on by randomly catching that North Carolina game. Then I kept watching him play, and you know how that goes. He kept delivering in the clutch unlike anyone else. Plus I figured he grew up around professional NBA players his entire life. After I saw him easily shift to point guard at Davidson, I was convinced he'd be a future superstar.

Really good call sir.

[Stribor]

I feel this was a rather good call for 2018 draft ...
viewtopic.php?p=66879751#p66879751

1. Doncic
2. Young
3. Bamba
4. Mikal Bridges
5. Miles Bridges
6. JJJ
7. Porter
8. Carter
9. Knox
10. Ayton
11. Bagley
12. Sexton
13. SGA
14. Musa
15. Walker

I am low on all the big that did not show much of defense and/or can not shoot, but for big defense is my number one trait to look...

[Troubadour]

OG Anunoby was my favourite prospect and I was hellbent on the Raptors picking him. Still time left for OG to prove me right re: Mitchell!

Evidence: viewtopic.php?p=55411250#p55411250

"Post-Combine Board:
Tier 1 - Unlikely to be available, but must draft
1. OG Anunoby
2. Donovan Mitchell

I think Anunoby has the higher ceiling, but Mitchell has an incredibly high floor. Amazing athlete, great shooter, and elite defender."

[HotelVitale]

OG Anunoby was my favourite prospect and I was hellbent on the Raptors picking him. Still time left for OG to prove me right re: Mitchell! Evidence: viewtopic.php?p=55411250#p55411250
"Post-Combine Board:
Tier 1 - Unlikely to be available, but must draft
1. OG Anunoby
2. Donovan Mitchell
I think Anunoby has the higher ceiling, but Mitchell has an incredibly high floor. Amazing athlete, great shooter, and elite defender."

Hate to gatekeep the HOF hits board, but wasn't Anunoby more or less universally seen as a steal for the 23rd pick? I remember him being seen as a likely late lotto/mid-teens pick and he happened to fall to the Raps. Feel like everyone basically said 'amazing no-brainer pick for the Raps!' in most draft report cards. And Mitchell was obviously not a 23rd pick, he ended up being way better than most expected but even people who didn't like him had him as a top-12 or -15 guy at worst. Almost any surefire lotto pick lasting to #23 would be seen as a steal.

EDIT: clicked on the link, and the people you actually recommended the Raptors taking who were likely to be available were Hamidou Diallo, Jonathan Jeanne, and Semi Ojelye. Again hate to gatekeep but feel like the bar should be a little higher for this thread, those times when someone totally nails some predictions and says exactly why they were ahead of the pack about a given draft, saw clearly exactly how someone others were sleeping on was going to be amazing.

[Marcus]

OG Anunoby was my favourite prospect and I was hellbent on the Raptors picking him. Still time left for OG to prove me right re: Mitchell! Evidence: viewtopic.php?p=55411250#p55411250
"Post-Combine Board:
Tier 1 - Unlikely to be available, but must draft
1. OG Anunoby
2. Donovan Mitchell
I think Anunoby has the higher ceiling, but Mitchell has an incredibly high floor. Amazing athlete, great shooter, and elite defender."

Hate to gatekeep the HOF hits board, but wasn't Anunoby more or less universally seen as a steal for the 23rd pick? I remember him being seen as a likely late lotto/mid-teens pick and he happened to fall to the Raps. Feel like everyone basically said 'amazing no-brainer pick for the Raps!' in most draft report cards. And Mitchell was obviously not a 23rd pick, he was obviously better than most expected but was universally seen as a top-15 guy. Almost any surefire lotto pick lasting to #23 would be seen as a steal.

EDIT: clicked on the link, and the people you actually recommended the Raptors taking and were likely to be available were Hamidou Diallo, Jonathan Jeanne, and Semi Ojelye. Again hate to gatekeep but feel like the bar should be a little higher for this thread, those times when someone totally nails some predictions and says exactly why they were ahead of the pack about a given draft.

yeah i will be taking some time and doing clean up on both threads. maybe set some guidelines for qualifications.

[HotelVitale]

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=918196&p=19955707&hilit=Lawson+curry+dat2u#p19955707

If I was EG on draft night here's what I would have done. I'd try to work out a deal with Minny for them to secure Rubio's draft rights and swap picks. If Minny agreed to a Mike Miller for Etan Thomas / Oleksiy Pecherov swap then I would have drafted G Stephen Curry at #6.

If Minny balked at trading Miller I may have settled for the 18th pick. I honestly think Minny would have given up the pick instead of Miller to secure Rubio. With the 18th pick I would have drafted PG Ty Lawson.

Doing some more gatekeeping here! What can I say, Marcus bumped the thread and I really don't want to work today.

Are you saying that it was an all-time great 'hit' to say that you lukewarm-ly advocated for your team to take someone at #5 who was taken at #7? I'd bet that almost every fan whose team has a top-5 pick plays around with the idea of taking any of the top 7 prospects that year. And probably at least 35% of all fans who follow the draft would prefer someone taken a few picks later over the player their team picks.

Also it seems like you're saying the Wolves shouldn't take Curry unless they could also get Mike Miller, like Miller was the deal-breaker there. If your certainty that Curry was the best target relied on a (fairly unlikely) trade for a kind of whatever player going down, it doesn't seem strong enough for any kind of HOF.

[Dat2U]

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=918196&p=19955707&hilit=Lawson+curry+dat2u#p19955707

If I was EG on draft night here's what I would have done. I'd try to work out a deal with Minny for them to secure Rubio's draft rights and swap picks. If Minny agreed to a Mike Miller for Etan Thomas / Oleksiy Pecherov swap then I would have drafted G Stephen Curry at #6.

If Minny balked at trading Miller I may have settled for the 18th pick. I honestly think Minny would have given up the pick instead of Miller to secure Rubio. With the 18th pick I would have drafted PG Ty Lawson.

Doing some more gatekeeping here! What can I say, Marcus bumped the thread and I really don't want to work today.

Are you saying that it was an all-time great 'hit' to say that you lukewarm-ly advocated for your team to take someone at #5 who was taken at #7? I'd bet that almost every fan whose team has a top-5 pick plays around with the idea of taking any of the top 7 prospects that year. And probably at least 35% of all fans who follow the draft would prefer someone taken a few picks later over the player their team picks.

Also it seems like you're saying the Wolves shouldn't take Curry unless they could also get Mike Miller, like Miller was the deal-breaker there. If your certainty that Curry was the best target relied on a (fairly unlikely) trade for a kind of whatever player going down, it doesn't seem strong enough for any kind of HOF.

I was actually advocating a trade down from 5 to 6 to grab Curry & Lawson.

This one better? Lol

July 1st, 2009, 1:34 am

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=916746&p=20020821&hilit=Curry+dat2u#p20020821

Irregardless I think the guy we'll come to end up regretting we passed on was Steph Curry. It's a gut feeling but if we were going to sell out on having a completely offensive minded team then Curry was the guy to select. Contrary to popular belief Curry was the type of rookie that could come in and contribute immediately in a team's rotation. And the sad thing about the trade was that if EG waited until draft day, he possibly could have had Curry AND Miller or at least Curry and the #18th pick. You can make an argument about Miller being a good fit next to our big three but I'd take Curry over Foye 10 times out of 10 and find it hard to believe that someone can make a legitimate argument the Foye is an ideal fit or anything more than mediocre guard.

dat, if u were to compare the 2, what categories would u say that curry excels over foye?

Good question. I'll try to break it down.

Athleticism - I give the edge to Foye, although knee problems have limited his explosiveness somewhat. Foye should be a bit better in terms of lateral movement

Shooting - I give the edge to Curry. Curry is an elite shooter IMO, Has a lightning quick release and has slick enough handles to create a shot off the dribble.

Slashing - I give the edge to Foye but again his knee issues appear to have made him more hesititant about driving. He depended heavily on his jumper this past season.

Ability to play PG - Again I give it to Curry although I know he hasn't done it yet on an NBA level. Foye has proven to be thoroughly ineffective on the NBA level as a starting PG. I think Curry displayed great court vision and has an innate feel for the game. In time I think Curry will be deadly on the pick & roll.

Defense - Because Curry is a rookie, I'll give the slight edge to Foye although he's nothing special. Foye has the tools to be a solid defender against PGs but didn't display a ton of effort in that area. Curry will get abused some as a rookie but he's smart & heady and will eventually be a fine team defender if not a one-on-one defender.

Basketball IQ - Gotta give it to Curry, along with his shooting skill it's his best attribute. It's clear being from a basketball pedigree has made him wise beyond his year and its why I think he can come in and help a team relatively quickly.

Bottom line, Foye might be a marginally better player this season but in time I think Curry possesses the ability to become a starting PG and excel at it. Plus his versatility to play either off or on the ball would have made him lethal beside Gil.

Another huge aspect to consider is Curry will be on a relatively cheap rookie contract next year. Foye will be looking for a payday following this coming season. That's one reason why I find the notion that the Wizards saved money in acquiring Foye & Miller to be misleading. In the extreme shorterm? Yes. But next year the Wizards will have to pay the piper or risk losing one or more of their free agents.

[Dat2U]

I got more since we're challenging my skill:
.

I'm high on Okongwu. We actually are very similar. In numerology we share the same life path & energy (7/11). So he's very smart, very self aware (the 7) and athletic (11). He's a high character guy and a leader (11). I see little chance that he doesnt have at leasf a solid NBA career although there's a decent risk of injury at some point (7).

I absolutely love LaMelo Ball though and think he is clearly the best player in the draft by a decent margin. The combo of length, athleticism and skill is unique. He's the only guy I see capable of breaking down defenses at will and creating for himself and others at high-level. He rebounds really well. I think he'll be the closest thing to Westbrook in terms of amassing triple doubles. What confirms it for me is the numerology aspect as he's 33 LP which considered a master number plus 22 energy (born a 22 day) which indicates builder qualities (also a master number). Basically he's uber smart, a trailblazer and a can be someone the franchise builds around. The shot needs work but thats the only issue I have with him.

I'm with you on Wiseman. The talent is so tempting but the numerology aspect on him I don't love. He's very much along the lines of Mitchell Robinson & Andre Drummond. I'm sure he'll be productive just like they are but I question what his real impact willbe if he's not a great defender.

Vassell as I mentioned previously, just screams role playing wing off the bench. Maybe Josh Childress is the upside? Meh.

Anthony Edwards may be the most athletic 2-guard I've seen in years and a great frame to go with it. But the decision making/IQ are very much like Dion Waiters and Nick Young. So where he goes will be of the highest importance. With SA, Bos or Mia - Edwards could be special with right coaching. If not, he'll have some moments but I would expect coaches/teammates to be frustrated with his on-court decisions.

From the 2020 Draft Thread.

[Ruzious]

Dat, we need you to post more in this forum and keep the talent level up.

And to shut me down when I say something like "Steph Curry would make an ideal 3rd guard." Yes, that really happened when Steph was at Davidson.

[yoyoboy]

Look at a guy like Mikal Bridges. He's exactly the type of player who projects to translate well to the pros. Versatile long switchy defender who also happens to be an absolutely deadly three point shooter now with a high release shot. And yet he fell all the way to 10 and ended up getting traded to the team who picked 16th. Is he going to be routinely taking guys off the dribble? Maybe not. I mean I wouldn't count out him developing his game even more considering he's improved significantly every year in college. He couldn't even play his first year because he didn't have the body for it and by his junior year he was the best player on the best team in the nation. At worst he's a fantastic 3+D player in the NBA. So is it that teams don't recognize the value of "role players" like Covington and Otto Porter in the NBA (something the analytics greatly support) or is it more so a question of their ability to evaluate how the college players will translate?

Then you have guys like Robert Williams, who fell all the way to 27 despite having clearly translatable NBA level abilities. Is he going to be posting up or shooting from beyond the paint and scoring 20 a game? No, but why do those things matter so much that he's barely picked in the first round. Is it likely that he'll be a phenomenal rim protector and lob target? Of course. DeAndre Jordan fell to the second round. Clint Capela dropped all the way to 25. And Williams while having similar rim running and shot blocking prowess as those two exhibited far more ability to switch onto the perimeter. So it's no surprise a well run team like the Celtics snatched him up.

Jacob Evans is a guy who will probably be a good two way player so it's no surprise the Warriors, a team that understands the value of multi-skilled versatile players, stole him. Gary Clark went undrafted and an analytically focused Rockets team made sure to sign him to a two-way deal. De'Anthony Melton is another steal they managed to get at pick 46 in the 2nd round, one who is probably the best guard defender in the draft.

The Mavericks had a fantastic draft, moving up to Doncic - honestly probably the best player in the entire draft - while only giving up a "protected"'future first. Then they got Jalen Brunson in the 2nd round, who had physical limitations but gives off a very FVV vibe with his basketball IQ, physical play, and fire. And Kostas Antetokounmpo with the last pick of the draft. Why not? Chances are he's out of the league in a couple years but at the last pick you can afford to shoot for the stars considering most of the 2nd round won't get a second NBA contract. So you might as well pick a physical freak with a high ceiling who also happens to have a very good older brother in the NBA... which would be important when that guy is a FA a couple years from now.

Bagley going two is another head shaking moment for me. I realize a lot of people like him but he doesn't project to be a good defender at the next level (poor standing reach and defensive awareness) and I'm not sold on his shot. I have no doubt he'll put up numbers, probably something like 12/10 his rookie year because he's a great rebounder, but I don't think the impact on the game will be there at all and I certainly don't see the logic of picking him ahead of Doncic and Jackson Jr. I think a lot of franchises are overly wowed by athleticism. I think Knox at 9 went too high as well but this post is getting extremely long so I won't go into depth there.

So my question is simply: how can these billion dollar franchises be so routinely poor at picking players, oftentimes making the same mistake again and again?

I feel like I had a really good grip of the 2018 class on the whole.

[HotelVitale]

[ I was actually advocating a trade down from 5 to 6 to grab Curry & Lawson.
This one better? Lol
July 1st, 2009, 1:34 am
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=916746&p=20020821&hilit=Curry+dat2u#p20020821

dat, if u were to compare the 2, what categories would u say that curry excels over foye?

Good question. I'll try to break it down. Athleticism - I give the edge to Foye, although knee problems have limited his explosiveness somewhat. Foye should be a bit better in terms of lateral movement. Shooting - I give the edge to Curry. Curry is an elite shooter IMO, Has a lightning quick release and has slick enough handles to create a shot off the dribble. Slashing - I give the edge to Foye but again his knee issues appear to have made him more hesititant about driving. He depended heavily on his jumper this past season.
Ability to play PG - Again I give it to Curry although I know he hasn't done it yet on an NBA level. Foye has proven to be thoroughly ineffective on the NBA level as a starting PG. I think Curry displayed great court vision and has an innate feel for the game. In time I think Curry will be deadly on the pick & roll... Bottom line, Foye might be a marginally better player this season but in time I think Curry possesses the ability to become a starting PG and excel at it. Plus his versatility to play either off or on the ball would have made him lethal beside Gil.

Six months late responding to this so my fault, just happening back to this board with the college season picking up.

I still don't know, man, these are all really good posts and you definitely look sharp in them, I'm just saying that they feel more like pretty good points than special insights that deserve commemoration. For the Curry thing, you have to see how it maybe doesn't qualify to predict that an all-time great guy was likely better than a mediocre soon-to-be-FA vet. Your actual prediction here is just that 'in time Curry...become(s) a starting PG' who fits well with Arenas, while Foye was going to be expensive soon. Nice point, but not an all-time draft prediction in my eyes.

Plus the point you're really strongly defending in this thread is that they got a bad return on the trade and should've just taken any of the PGs in that range, the Curry thing is more of a one-time aside about that. You're much more intent on making the point and saying things like "one of the players EG passed on in the draft will make the deal look bad. Whether its Flynn, Curry, DeRozan or someone else, time will eventually tell," and you specifically shout out Jennings and Flynn a few months into the season as better choices than Foye. That was a good team-building point and time has definitely proven it right--but that's much different from making one of the best predictions ever on this board about a particular draft pick.

Again, this is all good analysis and strong posts. No disrespect meant on that, was good ish. Just that we sometimes see really impressive insights here where people really nail predictions. Stuff like spelling out exactly why Gobert should've gone 15 picks higher, which for Curry's case would've been more like 'Look if we have to give up some vets and 1sts to get Curry let's do it because beyond his shooting, Curry is a brilliant playmaker who feels the game at an all-time level, and I think he'll at worst make AS teams a few times.'

[Dat2U]

[ I was actually advocating a trade down from 5 to 6 to grab Curry & Lawson.
This one better? Lol
July 1st, 2009, 1:34 am
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=916746&p=20020821&hilit=Curry+dat2u#p20020821

Good question. I'll try to break it down. Athleticism - I give the edge to Foye, although knee problems have limited his explosiveness somewhat. Foye should be a bit better in terms of lateral movement. Shooting - I give the edge to Curry. Curry is an elite shooter IMO, Has a lightning quick release and has slick enough handles to create a shot off the dribble. Slashing - I give the edge to Foye but again his knee issues appear to have made him more hesititant about driving. He depended heavily on his jumper this past season.
Ability to play PG - Again I give it to Curry although I know he hasn't done it yet on an NBA level. Foye has proven to be thoroughly ineffective on the NBA level as a starting PG. I think Curry displayed great court vision and has an innate feel for the game. In time I think Curry will be deadly on the pick & roll... Bottom line, Foye might be a marginally better player this season but in time I think Curry possesses the ability to become a starting PG and excel at it. Plus his versatility to play either off or on the ball would have made him lethal beside Gil.

Six months late responding to this so my fault, just happening back to this board with the college season picking up.

I still don't know, man, these are all really good posts and you definitely look sharp in them, I'm just saying that they feel more like pretty good points than special insights that deserve commemoration. For the Curry thing, you have to see how it maybe doesn't qualify to predict that an all-time great guy was likely better than a mediocre soon-to-be-FA vet. Your actual prediction here is just that 'in time Curry...become(s) a starting PG' who fits well with Arenas, while Foye was going to be expensive soon. Nice point, but not an all-time draft prediction in my eyes.

Plus the point you're really strongly defending in this thread is that they got a bad return on the trade and should've just taken any of the PGs in that range, the Curry thing is more of a one-time aside about that. You're much more intent on making the point and saying things like "one of the players EG passed on in the draft will make the deal look bad. Whether its Flynn, Curry, DeRozan or someone else, time will eventually tell," and you specifically shout out Jennings and Flynn a few months into the season as better choices than Foye. That was a good team-building point and time has definitely proven it right--but that's much different from making one of the best predictions ever on this board about a particular draft pick.

Again, this is all good analysis and strong posts. No disrespect meant on that, was good ish. Just that we sometimes see really impressive insights here where people really nail predictions. Stuff like spelling out exactly why Gobert should've gone 15 picks higher, which for Curry's case would've been more like 'Look if we have to give up some vets and 1sts to get Curry let's do it because beyond his shooting, Curry is a brilliant playmaker who feels the game at an all-time level, and I think he'll at worst make AS teams a few times.'

Had some time today to post receipts. My post history here is littered with hits & misses.

Read on Twitter

?t=ckiu5sk6uNwIrJ1L08-w1A&s=19

[bucknut]

don't remember anyone being high on brunson but me

Re: Jalen Brunson
0
Post#47 » by bucknut » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:48 am

Damon Stoudamire with a Mark Jackson backdown game.

kid will be a stud. polished nba savvy game. stood out more than bridges.

I don't even see him being a bad athlete. He's just not a westbrook freak. I don't even think Chris Paul is that much more of an athlete than this guy. Jarret Jack, George Hill, earl watson, Deron Williams, andre miller etc these guys aren't athletes