Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell)

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Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#1 » by clyde21 » Mon Dec 3, 2018 6:50 pm

I'll start off with Clarke.

21.6 BPM, 76 TS%, 39 PER, almost 6 blocks per 40 minutes. Might be the most versatile defender in the NCAA right now.

I think most people have Hachimura as a lotto pick right now, but Clarke might also deserve a nod there too.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#2 » by Fischella » Mon Dec 3, 2018 7:13 pm

Hachimura is the worst prospect of the bunch
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#3 » by Duke4life831 » Mon Dec 3, 2018 7:14 pm

My thing is what position does Clarke play? 6'7 195 with a basic offensive skill set and an average rebounder. If you tell me he can become a good 3pt shooter than I would be on board with him. You would be able to sell me on him being a taller PJ Tucker. If he was 6'10 you could sell me on him being a full time 5. But right now he looks to be a 5 in a small ball 4 body.

But 6'7 195, has made 4 3pt shots in his career and is a 57% FT shooter. Love him defensively though. Get a 3pt shot and I take him first out of the Gonzaga group.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#4 » by Fischella » Mon Dec 3, 2018 7:19 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:My thing is what position does Clarke play? 6'7 195 with a basic offensive skill set and an average rebounder. If you tell me he can become a good 3pt shooter than I would be on board with him. You would be able to sell me on him being a taller PJ Tucker. If he was 6'10 you could sell me on him being a full time 5. But right now he looks to be a 5 in a small ball 4 body.

But 6'7 195, has made 4 3pt shots in his career and is a 57% FT shooter. Love him defensively though. Get a 3pt shot and I take him first out of the Gonzaga group.

Clarke is 6'8 215, 7'0 wingspan, obviously plays the 4, defends whatever, and offensively plays like Roberson, rolls to the basket, transition, corner 3s (his shot looks better this year but was hideous before Gonzaga so who knows, maybe he can be serviceable)

I think he is a guy that you consider in the Jerami Grant, Roberson, Thad Young mold, maybe Robert Covington if he were a worse a shooter also applies
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#5 » by Duke4life831 » Mon Dec 3, 2018 7:24 pm

Fischella wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:My thing is what position does Clarke play? 6'7 195 with a basic offensive skill set and an average rebounder. If you tell me he can become a good 3pt shooter than I would be on board with him. You would be able to sell me on him being a taller PJ Tucker. If he was 6'10 you could sell me on him being a full time 5. But right now he looks to be a 5 in a small ball 4 body.

But 6'7 195, has made 4 3pt shots in his career and is a 57% FT shooter. Love him defensively though. Get a 3pt shot and I take him first out of the Gonzaga group.

Clarke is 6'8 215, 7'0 wingspan, obviously plays the 4, defends whatever, and offensively plays like Roberson, rolls to the basket, transition, corner 3s (his shot looks better this year but was hideous before Gonzaga so who knows, maybe he can be serviceable)

I think he is a guy that you consider in the Jerami Grant, Roberson, Thad Young mold, maybe Robert Covington if he were a worse a shooter also applies


I can see the Jerami Grant comparison. Obviously he is the ideal small ball 4 and that is who he defends. I just personally really question will he ever get that 3pt shot down. Again if he can get that corner 3 down I really like him as a prospect. I just have my doubts on it. Without the 3, I can see the Grant comparison and with that I grade him similarly to where I graded Grant, early 2nd round.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#6 » by Funcrusher » Mon Dec 3, 2018 7:29 pm

Fischella wrote:Hachimura is the worst prospect of the bunch

Norvell is a better prospect than Hachimura? :crazy: :lol:
gh123 wrote:Zion lucky if he gets 18 ppg on decent efficiency. Midget big man is a no-career in NBA. Chuck being the only wonder. Zion is the next Tractor Trailer at best.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#7 » by clyde21 » Mon Dec 3, 2018 7:29 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
Fischella wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:My thing is what position does Clarke play? 6'7 195 with a basic offensive skill set and an average rebounder. If you tell me he can become a good 3pt shooter than I would be on board with him. You would be able to sell me on him being a taller PJ Tucker. If he was 6'10 you could sell me on him being a full time 5. But right now he looks to be a 5 in a small ball 4 body.

But 6'7 195, has made 4 3pt shots in his career and is a 57% FT shooter. Love him defensively though. Get a 3pt shot and I take him first out of the Gonzaga group.

Clarke is 6'8 215, 7'0 wingspan, obviously plays the 4, defends whatever, and offensively plays like Roberson, rolls to the basket, transition, corner 3s (his shot looks better this year but was hideous before Gonzaga so who knows, maybe he can be serviceable)

I think he is a guy that you consider in the Jerami Grant, Roberson, Thad Young mold, maybe Robert Covington if he were a worse a shooter also applies


I can see the Jerami Grant comparison. Obviously he is the ideal small ball 4 and that is who he defends. I just personally really question will he ever get that 3pt shot down. Again if he can get that corner 3 down I really like him as a prospect. I just have my doubts on it. Without the 3, I can see the Grant comparison and with that I grade him similarly to where I graded Grant, early 2nd round.


Jerami Grant barely averaged half a block a game in college. Clarke's an infinitely better defender at this stage.

Defensively I'd put him in the Draymond Green role. Offensively still needs a lot of development there, but the dude is shooting 77% from the field. He kills it around the rim.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#8 » by Fischella » Mon Dec 3, 2018 7:39 pm

I had Grant in the 20s back then, but Grant was less skilled as a driver, younger, more athletic, and more over the place on D

I think Clarke compares better to a less athletic Roberson with the way he plays D, dunno, those guys bring value if they shoot it at least okay from the corner, the thing is that this Draft is trash so if you can get a guy like that, I think top20 makes sense
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#9 » by Duke4life831 » Mon Dec 3, 2018 7:40 pm

clyde21 wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Fischella wrote:Clarke is 6'8 215, 7'0 wingspan, obviously plays the 4, defends whatever, and offensively plays like Roberson, rolls to the basket, transition, corner 3s (his shot looks better this year but was hideous before Gonzaga so who knows, maybe he can be serviceable)

I think he is a guy that you consider in the Jerami Grant, Roberson, Thad Young mold, maybe Robert Covington if he were a worse a shooter also applies


I can see the Jerami Grant comparison. Obviously he is the ideal small ball 4 and that is who he defends. I just personally really question will he ever get that 3pt shot down. Again if he can get that corner 3 down I really like him as a prospect. I just have my doubts on it. Without the 3, I can see the Grant comparison and with that I grade him similarly to where I graded Grant, early 2nd round.


Jerami Grant barely averaged half a block a game in college. Clarke's an infinitely better defender at this stage.

Defensively I'd put him in the Draymond Green role. Offensively still needs a lot of development there, but the dude is shooting 77% from the field. He kills it around the rim.


I agree he's a better defender. 70% of his shots come at the rim, he has shown 0 perimeter skills. Again I think he has the skill set of a 5 but in a 4 body. I would feel much more confident about him being mid 1st if he shows more potential as a corner 3 guy. But right now I see a really late 1st or early 2nd guy right now.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#10 » by clyde21 » Mon Dec 3, 2018 7:43 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
I can see the Jerami Grant comparison. Obviously he is the ideal small ball 4 and that is who he defends. I just personally really question will he ever get that 3pt shot down. Again if he can get that corner 3 down I really like him as a prospect. I just have my doubts on it. Without the 3, I can see the Grant comparison and with that I grade him similarly to where I graded Grant, early 2nd round.


Jerami Grant barely averaged half a block a game in college. Clarke's an infinitely better defender at this stage.

Defensively I'd put him in the Draymond Green role. Offensively still needs a lot of development there, but the dude is shooting 77% from the field. He kills it around the rim.


I agree he's a better defender. 70% of his shots come at the rim, he has shown 0 perimeter skills. Again I think he has the skill set of a 5 but in a 4 body. I would feel much more confident about him being mid 1st if he shows more potential as a corner 3 guy. But right now I see a really late 1st or early 2nd guy right now.


Granted it's all at the rim stuff, but 77% is 77%. Grant for example was 49% in college. He's just so much better than Grant at everything that I don't think you can slot him in the same area. Much, much better prospect.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#11 » by Fischella » Mon Dec 3, 2018 7:43 pm

Funcrusher wrote:
Fischella wrote:Hachimura is the worst prospect of the bunch

Norvell is a better prospect than Hachimura? :crazy: :lol:

No doubt, Norvell is quite underrated, has enough size, his shooting is sweet, can actually do stuff on the ball, solid decision maker and plays hard, he is a solid wing prospect
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#12 » by Fischella » Mon Dec 3, 2018 7:44 pm

Clarke can dribble fine, I think he has avg offensive skills for a 4, if you don't count the shooting
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#13 » by nolang1 » Mon Dec 3, 2018 7:47 pm

clyde21 wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Fischella wrote:Clarke is 6'8 215, 7'0 wingspan, obviously plays the 4, defends whatever, and offensively plays like Roberson, rolls to the basket, transition, corner 3s (his shot looks better this year but was hideous before Gonzaga so who knows, maybe he can be serviceable)

I think he is a guy that you consider in the Jerami Grant, Roberson, Thad Young mold, maybe Robert Covington if he were a worse a shooter also applies


I can see the Jerami Grant comparison. Obviously he is the ideal small ball 4 and that is who he defends. I just personally really question will he ever get that 3pt shot down. Again if he can get that corner 3 down I really like him as a prospect. I just have my doubts on it. Without the 3, I can see the Grant comparison and with that I grade him similarly to where I graded Grant, early 2nd round.


Jerami Grant barely averaged half a block a game in college. Clarke's an infinitely better defender at this stage.


I think we can clearly see from guys like Grant and Marvin Bagley that you aren't going to block too many shots playing on the wing of a 2-3 zone defense in college.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#14 » by clyde21 » Mon Dec 3, 2018 7:48 pm

nolang1 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
I can see the Jerami Grant comparison. Obviously he is the ideal small ball 4 and that is who he defends. I just personally really question will he ever get that 3pt shot down. Again if he can get that corner 3 down I really like him as a prospect. I just have my doubts on it. Without the 3, I can see the Grant comparison and with that I grade him similarly to where I graded Grant, early 2nd round.


Jerami Grant barely averaged half a block a game in college. Clarke's an infinitely better defender at this stage.


I think we can clearly see from guys like Grant and Marvin Bagley that you aren't going to block too many shots playing on the wing of a 2-3 zone defense in college.


Clarke defends the wing all the time.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#15 » by nolang1 » Mon Dec 3, 2018 7:50 pm

clyde21 wrote:
nolang1 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
Jerami Grant barely averaged half a block a game in college. Clarke's an infinitely better defender at this stage.


I think we can clearly see from guys like Grant and Marvin Bagley that you aren't going to block too many shots playing on the wing of a 2-3 zone defense in college.


Clarke defends the wing all the time.


There's a difference between man and zone defense.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#16 » by clyde21 » Mon Dec 3, 2018 7:51 pm

nolang1 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
nolang1 wrote:
I think we can clearly see from guys like Grant and Marvin Bagley that you aren't going to block too many shots playing on the wing of a 2-3 zone defense in college.


Clarke defends the wing all the time.


There's a difference between man and zone defense.


That explains a 4 block per game difference? And shouldn't he have more steals then? I don't know. I don't really remember Grant in college, but I doubt he's anywhere near the defender that Clarke is now, especially in terms of rim protection.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#17 » by Fischella » Mon Dec 3, 2018 8:02 pm

Jerami Grant was also 19-20 before he got drafted, Clarke is going to be 23 by September

also stocks aren't everything and don't = good defense
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#18 » by nolang1 » Mon Dec 3, 2018 8:04 pm

clyde21 wrote:
nolang1 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
Clarke defends the wing all the time.


There's a difference between man and zone defense.


That explains a 4 block per game difference? And shouldn't he have more steals then? I don't know. I don't really remember Grant in college, but I doubt he's anywhere near the defender that Clarke is now, especially in terms of rim protection.


Grant was way younger when drafted. They can definitely be similar types of players but this notion that Clarke is leaps and bounds beyond Grant as a defender does not hold up to much analysis.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#19 » by clyde21 » Mon Dec 3, 2018 8:06 pm

nolang1 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
nolang1 wrote:
There's a difference between man and zone defense.


That explains a 4 block per game difference? And shouldn't he have more steals then? I don't know. I don't really remember Grant in college, but I doubt he's anywhere near the defender that Clarke is now, especially in terms of rim protection.


Grant was way younger when drafted.


Ok? Does that mean he's as good of a defender or shot blocker? Age doesn't mean anything if you don't use that time to improve. Look at the improvement Clarke made between this year and when he was SJSU.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#20 » by Funcrusher » Mon Dec 3, 2018 8:09 pm

Fischella wrote:
Funcrusher wrote:
Fischella wrote:Hachimura is the worst prospect of the bunch

Norvell is a better prospect than Hachimura? :crazy: :lol:

No doubt, Norvell is quite underrated, has enough size, his shooting is sweet,can actually do stuff on the ball solid decision maker and plays hard, he is a solid wing prospect

Like what? What can he do on ball that Rui can't do? Guys like Norvell are a dime a dozen, guards that can shoot but don't do anything else above-average. Granted, Rui doesn't have a really diverse skillset either, but with his physical tools he probably has a higher ceiling. I wouldn't take either to go in the lottery, but I'd take a flyer on Rui late in the first round before I look at Norvell.
gh123 wrote:Zion lucky if he gets 18 ppg on decent efficiency. Midget big man is a no-career in NBA. Chuck being the only wonder. Zion is the next Tractor Trailer at best.

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