Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell)

[clyde21]

Do y'all see Tillie more as a 4 or 5 as a prospect?

More as a 4 in the NBA for me

[clyde21]

Norvell being a better prospec than Rui is puzzling. What does Norvell do better than Hach at this point? Shoot 3s? Even then, Hach is shooting 50% (6/12) this year so far from range.

Eeeh, dribble, pass, shoot, defend, I mean about everything, Norvell has enough size and craft to be a two way SG that can put it on the floor and do some stuff, think Etwaun Moore, not sure what the hell Rui does for you, cause at the moment he projects as a purely offense oriented back-up big, which are a dime in a dozen

Not a better defender, only a better shooter from 3, Rui can score much better at all the other levels, dribbling a toss up but Norvell is a guard I hope he's a better dribbler than a PF.

Really the only thing, again, is the outside shot.

[Funcrusher]

Eeeh, dribble, pass, shoot, defend, I mean about everything, Norvell has enough size and craft to be a two way SG that can put it on the floor and do some stuff, think Etwaun Moore, not sure what the hell Rui does for you, cause at the moment he projects as a purely offense oriented back-up big, which are a dime in a dozen

Etwaun Moore is not a two way SG. What are you talking about?

He is fine enough, solid team defense, can't do much against bigger guys and suffers in playoff settings, but is an okay player on tht end, esp considering how much he has to play SF or defend bigger wings for that team

If you are only calling two-way wings to the ones that are from the upper echelon, we have like 10 legit 2-way wings in the league tops

Still, Moore is probably average for his position or so, that's okay, and those type of guys with his shooting to me carry more value than what Rui projects as been unless you expect Hachimura to exponentially improve at about everything, he is a below avg skilled player as a F (3 or 4) and his defense sucks for the most part, so what is he really? a less crazy, but worse defending version of Al Harrington? good character Terrence Jones? like... meh really

You'd have to really hate Hachimura to say his ceiling is below Etwaun Moore, who again, doesn't do anything exceptional besides shoot. If he's average defensively, which he's not, he doesn't qualify as a two way wing, period. Literally the only reason Moore is a starter for NO is because their depth at the wings is nonexistent, he belongs off the bench.

[No-Man]

Moore could start at the 2 for a whole lot of teams man, he is legit good

And I def think Rui's likely outcome is worse/less useful player than Moore

Like seriously what do you expect Rui's ceiling to be? he has only been good as an offensive turbo charged Center, and he is not even that great of a weapon if he can't do anything on D

He projects similarly to guys like Terrence Jones, Chriss, Al Harrington, I mean he might be a harder worker, better team guy than those, or towards the higher echelon, but that's still probably at best a similar level player to Moore

[clyde21]

Rui is ALREADY a better offensive player than Moore. Such a weird comparison.

Dude's averaging 22/6/1.5 on 60% from the field, 50% from 3, with a 65 TS%, 28 PER, and 6.7 BPM. Not sure what you're problem with Rui is but you seem really off-base here.

[No-Man]

Rui is ALREADY a better offensive player than Moore. Such a weird comparison.

Dude, you can't be serious

[clyde21]

Rui is ALREADY a better offensive player than Moore. Such a weird comparison.

Dude, you can't be serious

That Rui is a better offensive player than a guy that has a career average of 8/2 in 8 years? Yeah, I'm pretty confident that 8 years in Rui will be better than that in the NBA.

[No-Man]

You need to watch more games and read less stats and regurgitate them without any context

Also, great job judging Moore on his career by career avgs when he was a fringe player and a late 2nd round guy that had a minimal role for a couple years until he found his footing

Also you said that he was already a better offensive player which is just blatantly ignorant and stupid, Rui wouldn't touch the floor right now for like any NBA team

[Ruzious]

[quote="nolang1"]
You have shown it through your responses (and like come on, you clearly haven't actually played much basketball so why keep up the charade)
Let's do without those kind of comments.

[clyde21]

You need to watch more games and read less stats and regurgitate them without any context

Also, great job judging Moore on his career by career avgs when he was a fringe player and a late 2nd round guy that had a minimal role for a couple years until he found his footing

Also you said that he was already a better offensive player which is just blatantly ignorant and stupid, Rui wouldn't touch the floor right now for like any NBA team

Yes, you and nolani are the only two here that actually watch the games. I don't even know why the rest of us post. We should all just wait for you two to tell us what we think.

And it's funny that you're telling me to watch more games while you're sitting here legitimately comparing Rui to E'Twaun Moore. I definitely laughed at that one.

[Duke4life831]

I have no doubt guys like Fischella, Clyde, Power, Marcus, Gimme, Knicks, myself and many others watch plenty of college ball.

Just because someone has a different view on a player doesn't mean they lack knowledge or don't see a player enough. Chances are they just have a different opinion on the player.

[GimmeDat]

fwiw, I would call Moore a 2 way SG, at least from his time he played for the Bulls. Unless he's fallen off since, he was a guy that could play either wing spot, even PG in a pinch, was a solid defender, shoot the 3, has a nice floater game, etc. He's pretty well rounded, if unspectacular.

That being said, I don't see how he's being brought up in relation to Hachimura. Not anywhere similar archetypes or positions.

Moore's scoring 17 points per 36 on a 60% TS, so I don't believe Hachimura is anywhere close to him offensively *now*.. but I would say that Hachimura has a greater offensive ceiling as a shot creator at a position where that stuff's more rare (PF), and a higher offensive ceiling in general. He's been super efficient in his own right in college - 65 TS% on 30 points per 40. If he is able to translate those skills, improve his FT%, and up his 3 point volume a bit more while maintaining relative efficiency, he pretty easily has 20ppg sort of ability in the league, imo.

The bigger question marks with Rui's game are his wider offensive feel and his defensive development. He fits in to that Jabari/Gay sort of archetype, and as we've seen, there's a fine line between those sort of guys having a positive impact or not, despite their obvious talent.

[clyde21]

Hachimura last night with 26/7/2 and in case anyone missed it, the game winner:

Read on Twitter

[Coeur]

Rui is a 3 in the NBA. Of course that means he can be a small ball 4. But his highest ceiling and the reason he's a top 10 pick is because he is an NBA 3

[NBA Fan 1234]

Rui is a 3 in the NBA. Of course that means he can be a small ball 4. But his highest ceiling and the reason he's a top 10 pick is because he is an NBA 3

You can say he’s a 3 all you want, but he’s a 4 through and through.

[doordoor123]

I love all of the Gonzaga guys. Clarke is a beast. At worst he’s going to be a high-level energy guy that everyone would want on their team. I don’t even know who I would compare him to, he’s a unique player.

Hachimura is good, really fluid. He’s not too skilled, not too athletic, and not too long so I don’t think he’ll be an all-star type, but he’s going to be a good addition to any team as well.

Killian Tillie has a complete game, he can shoot with a really nice stroke and he can even pull up from 3. He has some advanced post moves, moves well enough on defense, long arms, etc. I see a Bobby Portis-type from him.

Norvell is my favorite of the bunch. Defensively he’s alright, but offensively he has great shake and a great first step. He doesn’t have a great vertical, but he has a nice jumper and tends to get hot. He still has a lot of room for growth. Think he has Tim Hardaway Jr type of upside.

[RipCity71252]

I don't see any of these guys becoming starters. So as bench players, Clarke is the most intriguing.

But I even have questions about him.

[clyde21]

I love all of the Gonzaga guys. Clarke is a beast. At worst he’s going to be a high-level energy guy that everyone would want on their team. I don’t even know who I would compare him to, he’s a unique player.

Defensively he has Draymond Green potential. Legit ability to defend 1-5, switch, block shots, man defense, help defense. He has it all on that end.

[King Ken]

Clarke numbers are astronomical. Like ATG status. Can he hold up with his slender frame?

[The-Power]

Gonzaga has massive talent this year.

I really like Zach Norvell Jr. as an NBA player. Ideally, he can become what Gary Harris has become for Denver. He is a really versatile player who can do a bit of everything and has notable shooting potential. He can definitely attack close-outs and a bit more, he has shown some great touch around the rim, he can be a legitimate secondary playmaker in college and can be a really solid defender. Great size as well. Most importantly, he could be one of the more versatile off-ball shooters in the league – and even pull-up some perhaps, especially when playing with second units. – and moves well into his spots off the ball.

Of course Brandon Clarke is a serious prospect as well. He will have a team gamble on him, or he will drop lower than he should. It seems clear to me that teams will not be certain how to evaluate him and project his role, so I either see some teams falling in love with him or a bunch of teams not being sure where to project him. Defensively, it is fair to say that he fills up the statsheet although I am not yet sure if I should project him to be a good/great defender in the NBA – at least when it comes to consisntency. But the potential is indubitably there, and that adds to his offensive potential. This, I feel, is sometimes overlooked. For someone of his stature he is really quick and can put it on the floor, which can be huge. Not only can he get to the rim off the dribble and out of the post, he also makes good reads and passes quite consistently, and he has a great touch around the basket for a big. Yes, he is not a shooter at this point but a) he is a beast inside to make up for it and b) his free throw form looks nice, so the development of a consistent midrange game is projectable at least.

Rui Hachimura... well, he has some nice traits. Not sure what he can be at the next level but he should at least be able to give a scoring spark off the bench for his team. I do not really like his prototype, i.e. a PF who does not shoot 3's, does not create for others and cannot defend at a high level. But I can see him being a solid contributor in the NBA. Lastly, you have Killian Tillie. I have seen a bit of him last year but will hold off judgement until I have seen more of him this year. He certainly fits the profile of a modern NBA 4. I want to see some improvements this year, as he fully recovers, but he has the chance to really impress and climb up the draft board. He can be a lottery pick.

Having 3 to 4 first-round prospects, of whom 3 could be mid-firsts on my board down the road is pretty special.