Kentucky prospects (Johnson, Hagans, Washington, Herro...)

[RipCity71252]

PJ is legit...pretty much the prototype modern 4 IMO.

but I have Herro as the better prospect (Herro is in my late lotto).

What if PJ is just an average shooter though? (and that isn't even guaranteed)

What gets him on the floor?

I think it's a very legitimate question.

[doordoor123]

Herro has grown on me. Has more skill than I thought, but I still see him as a Roleplayer at the next level. Don’t think we’re talking about a player that will be better than an average starter in his career.

I think he's a chance to be a little more than that, but his size and role definitely presents some risk.

But I'm more so pretty low on KJ and PJ than thinking Herro is some star or something.

PJ is an undersized big who isn't special on either end. He's like a shorter less athletic Vonleh who had a hot shooting stretch. Struggling to see what he brings that would keep a coach from playing a big wing or combo forward instead since I don't think he's near the defender or defensive rebounder to be effective as a 5.

And KJ plays hard and should be an ok shooter with some finishing touch, but has neither the skill level, athleticism or size to stand out near enough for me to take him over Herro.

I’m the opposite, I love Washington and Johnson.

Washington has a great motor, he has advanced footwork In the post, he’s also a good passer. I think he can defend inside-out too and he’s beginning to shoot. I’m super high on him. The space is really going to help him too.

Johnson shows a ton of flash and again, great motor. I think he’s more of a forward than a wing in the NBA and I really like his tools. Think he just needs a few things to click. But I like his defensive potential and his offensive potential. He has a place getting minutes right away with his physical abilities and instincts.

[clyde21]

PJ is legit...pretty much the prototype modern 4 IMO.

but I have Herro as the better prospect (Herro is in my late lotto).

What if PJ is just an average shooter though? (and that isn't even guaranteed)

What gets him on the floor?

well, even if he is just an average shooter that's enough to stretch the floor, but he also has a pretty dynamic inside game and a decent repertoire in the mid range.

he's also a really good entry and inside-out passer, and while not necessarily a shut down defender, I think he's smart/long enough to hold his own on most nights.

what does he need to see the floor? seems like he has a pretty sophisticated overall game that fits right into the modern game well. almost every thing you want out of your 4 today (except rim protection) he can do at least at an average level.

[No-Man]

PJ's lack of offensive dynamism (concerns about shooting, finishing, not a vertical spacer) and motor are the biggest question marks, if he could shoot 100% (like 36% from 3 in solid volume) and play hard always on the other end, he would be a top10 guy for me

[doordoor123]

PJ's lack of offensive dynamism (concerns about shooting, finishing, not a vertical spacer) and motor are the biggest question marks, if he could shoot 100% (like 36% from 3 in solid volume) and play hard always on the other end, he would be a top10 guy for me

What Kentucky are you watching? His motor is one of his biggest strengths. His problem is that there’s no space in college. No 3 second rule and there’s much more help defensively in the lane. He has excellent body control and his repiture will only improve with his jumper. He doesn’t have a super soft touch, but gets the ball in the bucket. Yeah, he needs to be more consistent all around, but no one is consistent in college unless you’re a freak like Zion Williamson. Dude works on his game and it’s clear even from his improvements since high school up to now. Give him like two or three years and he’ll be able to shoot and give consistent energy. Even right away he can fill a role as an energy guy off the bench, a role that he can excell much more at than a leading scorer.

[clyde21]

most underrated thing about PJ is his passing IMO. he's kind of like Draymond a bit in that capacity. really smart basketball player.

i have both he and Herro in top 20 probably, Herro in top 15.

[mattg]

Hagans isn’t a prospect. He’s the worst of the UK highly rated PG recruits by far in calipsri’s tenure. He’s gonna declare this year but he’s a G-Leaguer who’s gonna have a really really rough go of things.

I’m kind of with you there, I think he’s a G-League player right now. BUT, he has some advanced moves and some high upside. For me, because this is a weak draft in terms of guards, I consider him more early 2nd. Players like him hardly ever translate because he’s a project, but I like his tools and his flashes of advanced moves. I think he’s worth the gamble.

I get why a team might gamble on his upside, I just dont see it. Hagans honestly strikes me as very dumb. Like his decision making is really really bad, no idea when to pass or shoot, bad court awareness on offense where he routinely misses open shooters in the open court even. He doesn’t seem to understand how to run a team or even what he should generally be doing. On top of that he’s sorta been abused defensively since early January, he was killing it for a while, and has quick, disruptive hands...but he struggles to keep ball handlers in front of him, his feet aren’t as good as you’d hope for someone who projects as a defensive guard.

[No-Man]

No chance I'd draft Hagans lol, he is way worse than Briscoe was, I think Hagans is fine as a 2-way or a guy you sign for SL to keep his G-League rights, but that's about it

[clyde21]

Hagans is actually a really strong defender but unfortunately other parts of his game (offensively) haven't developed much

but I still think there's some some unlocked talent/potential there...I wouldn't go as far as undraftable tho.

[No-Man]

I think it's wishful-thinking on most people's part really, he is physical on D and has good instincts to go after the ball but he is a pretty mediocre athlete other than been strong and his offense is one of the worst ones I can recall for a Guard with such hype, ever

[doordoor123]

No chance I'd draft Hagans lol, he is way worse than Briscoe was, I think Hagans is fine as a 2-way or a guy you sign for SL to keep his G-League rights, but that's about it

Briscoe could be a starter in the next two or three years so I’m not sure that’s a terrible thing.

[doordoor123]

He has flashes of advanced moves, is quick twitchy, good movement defensively and can dunk for guard. Definitely an upside player. He’s a better pick than Dotson.

[bigworld2017]

Herro has grown on me. Has more skill than I thought, but I still see him as a Roleplayer at the next level. Don’t think we’re talking about a player that will be better than an average starter in his career.

He reminds me a little of DiVincenzo who the Bucks drafted out of NCAA Champs Villanova. Although I think DiV is a better athlete and proved he can be a clutch performer when he had the chance. But Herro has game, and a decent BB IQ. He'll get drafted, and he'll make an NBA roster. The rest will be up to him. I could see a team like Boston or Portland taking him in the late 20s.

[clyde21]

Herro has grown on me. Has more skill than I thought, but I still see him as a Roleplayer at the next level. Don’t think we’re talking about a player that will be better than an average starter in his career.

He reminds me a little of DiVincenzo who the Bucks drafted out of NCAA Champs Villanova. Although I think DiV is a better athlete and proved he can be a clutch performer when he had the chance. But Herro has game, and a decent BB IQ. He'll get drafted, and he'll make an NBA roster. The rest will be up to him. I could see a team like Boston or Portland taking him in the late 20s.

he'll more than get drafted. i'd be shocked if he drops below 20.

ps: the DiVincenzo comp isn't a very good one...Luke Kennard is a better comp but Herro is even better IMO.

[mattg]

I think it's wishful-thinking on most people's part really, he is physical on D and has good instincts to go after the ball but he is a pretty mediocre athlete other than been strong and his offense is one of the worst ones I can recall for a Guard with such hype, ever

This is spot on. Hagans is a ball hawk but he doesn’t move his feet that well which means any guard with quickness and a handle takes his lunch (especially since it seems Ashton hasn’t realized he isn’t athletic enough to play up so tight without getting schooled), he hasn’t been able to keep opposing PGs out of the lane at all in SEC play.

His physical profile is pretty meh honestly, he’s nice size and strength for a PG but otherwise doesn’t standout. Offensively there isn’t a single thing he can hang his hat on, on the nba level he ranges from below average to atrocious in every aspect of offensive play.

Oh, and Herro and divincenzo aren’t alike at all. DDV not nearly the shooter Herro is and overall isn’t as skilled, but Donte has elite elite quickness and ability to move his feet. I will say both have a great understanding of the game and how to play though, so they do a lot of little things and both are awesome to watch because of that.

[doordoor123]

I think it's wishful-thinking on most people's part really, he is physical on D and has good instincts to go after the ball but he is a pretty mediocre athlete other than been strong and his offense is one of the worst ones I can recall for a Guard with such hype, ever

This is spot on. Hagans is a ball hawk but he doesn’t move his feet that well which means any guard with quickness and a handle takes his lunch (especially since it seems Ashton hasn’t realized he isn’t athletic enough to play up so tight without getting schooled), he hasn’t been able to keep opposing PGs out of the lane at all in SEC play.

His physical profile is pretty meh honestly, he’s nice size and strength for a PG but otherwise doesn’t standout. Offensively there isn’t a single thing he can hang his hat on, on the nba level he ranges from below average to atrocious in every aspect of offensive play.

Oh, and Herro and divincenzo aren’t alike at all. DDV not nearly the shooter Herro is and overall isn’t as skilled, but Donte has elite elite quickness and ability to move his feet. I will say both have a great understanding of the game and how to play though, so they do a lot of little things and both are awesome to watch because of that.

Yeah, you’re right. Other than his flashes now and again, he really hasn’t showed much in terms of any kind of consistency. I see his offensive and defensive potential in flashes, but really not much. Some games he just disappears. I’d like to see him stay in college.

[mattg]

I think it's wishful-thinking on most people's part really, he is physical on D and has good instincts to go after the ball but he is a pretty mediocre athlete other than been strong and his offense is one of the worst ones I can recall for a Guard with such hype, ever

This is spot on. Hagans is a ball hawk but he doesn’t move his feet that well which means any guard with quickness and a handle takes his lunch (especially since it seems Ashton hasn’t realized he isn’t athletic enough to play up so tight without getting schooled), he hasn’t been able to keep opposing PGs out of the lane at all in SEC play.

His physical profile is pretty meh honestly, he’s nice size and strength for a PG but otherwise doesn’t standout. Offensively there isn’t a single thing he can hang his hat on, on the nba level he ranges from below average to atrocious in every aspect of offensive play.

Oh, and Herro and divincenzo aren’t alike at all. DDV not nearly the shooter Herro is and overall isn’t as skilled, but Donte has elite elite quickness and ability to move his feet. I will say both have a great understanding of the game and how to play though, so they do a lot of little things and both are awesome to watch because of that.

Yeah, you’re right. Other than his flashes now and again, he really hasn’t showed much in terms of any kind of consistency. I see his offensive and defensive potential in flashes, but really not much. Some games he just disappears. I’d like to see him stay in college.

Hagans is definitely a kid who could actually benefit from going back to school. He'll fall into purgatory in the G-League with no real way to get out if he declares this year. Going back to school will allow him to work on his consistency and I wouldn't be shocked he was able to polish up his drive and kick game and other offensive skills. I could see him making a Kyle Lowry frosh to Soph year kind of leap that could allow him to get drafted late first or something despite still having some glaring deficiencies. That said, Hagans has said he came to UK to be one and done so I still expect him to leave, but maybe reality hits him in the face when he tests the waters and realizes he's basically praying to go in the back half of round 2.

Keldon Johnson I'm so torn on. Theres definitely some things to like, production, aggressiveness, overall efficiency, decent physical profile, can hit the 3, etc. But at the same time I feel like he's not as good a shooter as his numbers might say. I don't think he has great touch and I get the feeling that his skill level is actually pretty poor. I look at how he dribbles and I don't see a guy who will be able to run PnR in the NBA, his handle is loose and doesn't look strong in tight quarters or when changing directions. His ability to finish in the paint and at the rim is also a HUGE question mark for me. He sorta wildly just drives into multiple defenders and throws the ball at the rim, not showing the presence of mind to recognize help that has long since arrived and adjusting either his finish or being able to move the ball to the newly vacated area. Definitely think hes gonna be a dude who gets A TON of charges called on him when he is attacking closeouts. I don't know, I guess it depends where he's drafted. End of the first round I think he's a great pick by a good team looking to potentially get a role player. If he's drafted in the late lotto it feels like a team is taking him because they are too scared to draft for actual upside.

[doordoor123]

This is spot on. Hagans is a ball hawk but he doesn’t move his feet that well which means any guard with quickness and a handle takes his lunch (especially since it seems Ashton hasn’t realized he isn’t athletic enough to play up so tight without getting schooled), he hasn’t been able to keep opposing PGs out of the lane at all in SEC play.

His physical profile is pretty meh honestly, he’s nice size and strength for a PG but otherwise doesn’t standout. Offensively there isn’t a single thing he can hang his hat on, on the nba level he ranges from below average to atrocious in every aspect of offensive play.

Oh, and Herro and divincenzo aren’t alike at all. DDV not nearly the shooter Herro is and overall isn’t as skilled, but Donte has elite elite quickness and ability to move his feet. I will say both have a great understanding of the game and how to play though, so they do a lot of little things and both are awesome to watch because of that.

Yeah, you’re right. Other than his flashes now and again, he really hasn’t showed much in terms of any kind of consistency. I see his offensive and defensive potential in flashes, but really not much. Some games he just disappears. I’d like to see him stay in college.

Hagans is definitely a kid who could actually benefit from going back to school. He'll fall into purgatory in the G-League with no real way to get out if he declares this year. Going back to school will allow him to work on his consistency and I wouldn't be shocked he was able to polish up his drive and kick game and other offensive skills. I could see him making a Kyle Lowry frosh to Soph year kind of leap that could allow him to get drafted late first or something despite still having some glaring deficiencies. That said, Hagans has said he came to UK to be one and done so I still expect him to leave, but maybe reality hits him in the face when he tests the waters and realizes he's basically praying to go in the back half of round 2. Someone said Jae Crowder a while ago and I disagreed, but the more I watch him the more I see it.

Keldon Johnson I'm so torn on. Theres definitely some things to like, production, aggressiveness, overall efficiency, decent physical profile, can hit the 3, etc. But at the same time I feel like he's not as good a shooter as his numbers might say. I don't think he has great touch and I get the feeling that his skill level is actually pretty poor. I look at how he dribbles and I don't see a guy who will be able to run PnR in the NBA, his handle is loose and doesn't look strong in tight quarters or when changing directions. His ability to finish in the paint and at the rim is also a HUGE question mark for me. He sorta wildly just drives into multiple defenders and throws the ball at the rim, not showing the presence of mind to recognize help that has long since arrived and adjusting either his finish or being able to move the ball to the newly vacated area. Definitely think hes gonna be a dude who gets A TON of charges called on him when he is attacking closeouts. I don't know, I guess it depends where he's drafted. End of the first round I think he's a great pick by a good team looking to potentially get a role player. If he's drafted in the late lotto it feels like a team is taking him because they are too scared to draft for actual upside.

I’m with you on Johnson. He’s also just kind of slow. I think he’s ideally a 3 and D forward because he’s just not quick enough and doesn’t have enough of a handle to play at the top of the arc in the NBA, but he’s undersized for a forward and not strong enough. With that said, I like his jumper, but he tends to get fatigued pretty easily and his form breaks down throughout games. He needs to realize he’s a forward, stay in college and work on getting stronger. I think he’ll look like a different player in three years, but three years away is still theee years away and he’s kind of a question mark until he figures out what he is.

[Catchall]

My concerns with PJ are his speed and mobility out on the perimeter where he'll need to play at the next level, and also how much he can create off the dribble. Can he be Paul Millsap or is he a somewhat better version of Mo Harkless? His athleticism may be pretty average for the NBA.

[clyde21]

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