Trading up for Zion Williamson

[baldur]

What would it take?
Let's assume Team A got the 1# pick and Team B got the 3#, what would team B have to offer to trade up? 2020 Unprotected first rounder? Maybe another second rounder too? Or no team would give up on zion williamson for similar offers?

[laika]

My guess is that it would be almost impossible. The gap between Zion and the other lottery picks is too large.

[baldur]

My guess is that it would be almost impossible. The gap between Zion and the other lottery picks is too large.

what about the 2nd pick which means pretty much RJ barrett?

[laika]

My guess is that it would be almost impossible. The gap between Zion and the other lottery picks is too large.

what about the 2nd pick which means pretty much RJ barrett?

That's probably the only team with any chance at all. The bidding would start at Barrett, a top prospect and an unprotected #1. Even then team A might still say no. History has taught us that you shouldn't trade a dominant #1 pick under any circumstances.

[clyde21]

My guess is that it would be almost impossible. The gap between Zion and the other lottery picks is too large.

what about the 2nd pick which means pretty much RJ barrett?

nope.

You're talking about a LeBron/AD level prospect here. Franchise changing.

[nolang1]

I'll go on record saying I'd consider it for the right offer. Zion is a crazy talent but I do wonder about how long he can sustain playing this way at his size over 82+ games year in and year out, especially as the NBA becomes faster-paced. It's kinda funny how a lot of come-lately people have been like "how could Zion have been anything but the #1 pick going into the season?!" when a big reason for that is that when he missed some time last year with a sprained knee, he got up to like 300 pounds and was visibly out of shape. It's going to be a unique challenge ensuring he's healthy for his career as one's tendons and ligaments can only be so strong and he is clearly capable of putting on weight easily.

[Feel_the_Heat15]

My guess is that it would be almost impossible. The gap between Zion and the other lottery picks is too large.

what about the 2nd pick which means pretty much RJ barrett?

nope.

You're talking about a LeBron/AD level prospect here. Franchise changing.

AD hasn't changed anything for the Pelicans though but I get it.

[Stillwater]

A couple of teams that get a win in the lottery from late lottery spot or a pick they own from another org might consider moving a # 1 pick in any draft by trading out as part of a trade for a high value all star , but in this one given the drop off after the #1 and then the free-fall from 5 or 6 and after I don't think any team would trade down for an additional later pick , but they might trade down 1 spot for an addition pick in the 5-6 spot if some team like ATL has a pick at 2 and 6 for example but that seems unlikely to be the locations.

[leolozon]

My guess is that it would be almost impossible. The gap between Zion and the other lottery picks is too large.

what about the 2nd pick which means pretty much RJ barrett?

nope.

You're talking about a LeBron/AD level prospect here. Franchise changing.

I don't follow college basketball, so forgive my possible lack of knowledge, but isn't RJ Barrett a Durant level prospect? It's not as if #2 is Ingram or Ball.

And we all know what happened with Oden VS Durant. Sometimes you just never know.

Also is Zion 100% a sure thing like Lebron et AD were? Aren't there some questions about his size and how he'll play in the NBA?

If the Bulls offered the #2 plus a good prospect like Carter or Markkanen. No one is biting?

[Duke4life831]

what about the 2nd pick which means pretty much RJ barrett?

nope.

You're talking about a LeBron/AD level prospect here. Franchise changing.

I don't follow college basketball, so forgive my possible lack of knowledge, but isn't RJ Barrett a Durant level prospect? It's not as if #2 is Ingram or Ball.

And we all know what happened with Oden VS Durant. Sometimes you just never know.

Also is Zion 100% a sure thing like Lebron et AD were? Aren't there some questions about his size and how he'll play in the NBA?

There is a considerable gap between Zion and RJ. You even have guys like Mike Schmitz who is saying Zion is clearly the best prospect since AD.

RJ is for sure putting up some ridiculous raw stats. But there are major concerns with his defense and his ability to play within a team. Zion is on pace to have one of the best seasons when looking at impact stats, that we have seen in a long time. He was on his way to another monster game yesterday before he got hurt. He had 11/8/2 in just 17 minutes against a massive and athletic FSU team. I know RJ had a great game against FSU yesterday, but Zion does it on both ends and is doing it game in and game out.

[nolang1]

If a better team moved up and won the lottery, something like an unprotected (or very lightly protected) 2020 pick plus getting a decent player/cap relief in exchange for a bad contract could probably convince me to move down. For example if Memphis got the 1st pick and could do #1 and Parsons for wherever Cleveland's picking, JR Smith (can be waived for cheap), Osman, cap filler and Cleveland's 2020 1st (could say it's top 3 protected if Cleveland is 2nd or 3rd in 2019 and unprotected in 2021).

Then the Grizzlies could have something like

Conley/Carter
Barrett or Reddish/Brooks
Anderson/Osman
Jackson
Gasol

along with 20 plus million in cap space to further upgrade the team. That should give them enough talent (especially if Jackson makes a leap in year 2) to make the pick that would convey to Boston (top 6 protected) not so bad, and then they could compete for the playoffs while having a likely lottery pick in reserve.

Another interesting scenario would be if Washington got the 1st pick. I could imagine Phoenix being desperate to make the playoffs and giving up a ton for #1 plus Wall. Like if Phoenix was offering the maximum amount of picks (unprotecteds plus Milwaukee's pick plus swap rights in the in-between years), Bridges and salary filler for Wall and #1 that would be a tempting reset button for me if I were the Wizards. Then the Suns would have Wall, Booker, Warren, Zion, and Ayton as a starting five.

Otherwise it's probably gonna be tough to make a deal because the tanking teams all have pretty clean cap situations and would be counting on Zion as a free agent draw, plus there are so many free agents that most of the players under contract at the time of the draft would either be untouchable stars or bad 2016 signings.

[PLO]

It would take another young talent to get Zion, so a Ben Simmons, Luka etc. That's a baseline level of what you're looking at. There is no team that has enough picks to get him.

[kuclas]

My guess is that it would be almost impossible. The gap between Zion and the other lottery picks is too large.

what about the 2nd pick which means pretty much RJ barrett?

nope.

You're talking about a LeBron/AD level prospect here. Franchise changing.

Lebron coming out of high school was about as sure a thing as

1. Tim Duncan
2. Patrick Ewing
3. Ralph Sampson
4. David Robinson
5. Shaq
6. Kareem


AD coming out wasn’t on that level. It’s a different tier those guys I mentioned.

AD on same level as someone like
Chris Webber
Derrick Coleman
Larry Johnson

Zion is more of the second tier overall number 1 picks level (sure things like LJ, c Webb) but not sure fire super star). Still. No team with the #1 pick should trade its 2019 overall pick regardless of the offer.



Yes. People forget what a dude thing Ralph’s Sampson was in 1983

[clyde21]

what about the 2nd pick which means pretty much RJ barrett?

nope.

You're talking about a LeBron/AD level prospect here. Franchise changing.

Lebron coming out of high school was about as sure a thing as

1. Tim Duncan
2. Patrick Ewing
3. Ralph Sampson
4. David Robinson
5. Shaq
6. Kareem


AD coming out wasn’t on that level. It’s a different tier those guys I mentioned.

AD on same level as someone like
Chris Webber
Derrick Coleman
Larry Johnson

Zion is more of the second tier overall number 1 picks level (sure things like LJ, c Webb) but not sure fire super star). Still. No team with the #1 pick should trade its 2019 overall pick regardless of the offer.



Yes. People forget what a dude thing Ralph’s Sampson was in 1983

No, AD and Zion are in that first tier of prospect.

[laika]

Here is who I would label a "dominant" pick in the recent past. He might not be at the top, but I think it's fair to put Zion on the list. Some of them were slightly disappointing, but it would be really difficult to get back fair value even if offered multiple players.

1992-Shaquille O'Neal
1993-Chris Webber
1997-Tim Duncan
2003-Lebron James
2007-Greg Oden, Kevin Durant
2009-Blake Griffin
2012-Anthony Davis
2015-Karl-Anthony Towns
2019-Zion Williamson

[Dat2U]

If a better team moved up and won the lottery, something like an unprotected (or very lightly protected) 2020 pick plus getting a decent player/cap relief in exchange for a bad contract could probably convince me to move down. For example if Memphis got the 1st pick and could do #1 and Parsons for wherever Cleveland's picking, JR Smith (can be waived for cheap), Osman, cap filler and Cleveland's 2020 1st (could say it's top 3 protected if Cleveland is 2nd or 3rd in 2019 and unprotected in 2021).

Then the Grizzlies could have something like

Conley/Carter
Barrett or Reddish/Brooks
Anderson/Osman
Jackson
Gasol

along with 20 plus million in cap space to further upgrade the team. That should give them enough talent (especially if Jackson makes a leap in year 2) to make the pick that would convey to Boston (top 6 protected) not so bad, and then they could compete for the playoffs while having a likely lottery pick in reserve.

Another interesting scenario would be if Washington got the 1st pick. I could imagine Phoenix being desperate to make the playoffs and giving up a ton for #1 plus Wall. Like if Phoenix was offering the maximum amount of picks (unprotecteds plus Milwaukee's pick plus swap rights in the in-between years), Bridges and salary filler for Wall and #1 that would be a tempting reset button for me if I were the Wizards. Then the Suns would have Wall, Booker, Warren, Zion, and Ayton as a starting five.

Otherwise it's probably gonna be tough to make a deal because the tanking teams all have pretty clean cap situations and would be counting on Zion as a free agent draw, plus there are so many free agents that most of the players under contract at the time of the draft would either be untouchable stars or bad 2016 signings.

Let me dead this right now. No one, including the Wizards in any scenario, would trade Zion to dump bad contracts. That's beyond stupid considering Zion will likely be worth billions to the team who ever drafts him.

You don't away a billion dollar asset to save $100+ million.

[nolang1]

If a better team moved up and won the lottery, something like an unprotected (or very lightly protected) 2020 pick plus getting a decent player/cap relief in exchange for a bad contract could probably convince me to move down. For example if Memphis got the 1st pick and could do #1 and Parsons for wherever Cleveland's picking, JR Smith (can be waived for cheap), Osman, cap filler and Cleveland's 2020 1st (could say it's top 3 protected if Cleveland is 2nd or 3rd in 2019 and unprotected in 2021).

Then the Grizzlies could have something like

Conley/Carter
Barrett or Reddish/Brooks
Anderson/Osman
Jackson
Gasol

along with 20 plus million in cap space to further upgrade the team. That should give them enough talent (especially if Jackson makes a leap in year 2) to make the pick that would convey to Boston (top 6 protected) not so bad, and then they could compete for the playoffs while having a likely lottery pick in reserve.

Another interesting scenario would be if Washington got the 1st pick. I could imagine Phoenix being desperate to make the playoffs and giving up a ton for #1 plus Wall. Like if Phoenix was offering the maximum amount of picks (unprotecteds plus Milwaukee's pick plus swap rights in the in-between years), Bridges and salary filler for Wall and #1 that would be a tempting reset button for me if I were the Wizards. Then the Suns would have Wall, Booker, Warren, Zion, and Ayton as a starting five.

Otherwise it's probably gonna be tough to make a deal because the tanking teams all have pretty clean cap situations and would be counting on Zion as a free agent draw, plus there are so many free agents that most of the players under contract at the time of the draft would either be untouchable stars or bad 2016 signings.

Let me dead this right now. No one, including the Wizards in any scenario, would trade Zion to dump bad contracts. That's beyond stupid considering Zion will likely be worth billions to the team who ever drafts him.

You don't away a billion dollar asset to save $100+ million.

You just don't have much imagination. I can see the side where if Wall is better than ever before after this surgery, then they could plug Zion in and get right back to being playoff contenders, but if not, Wall is the worst contract in the league.

The Suns lineup I put forward looks very talented on paper, but they're still in the stacked West, would have very little in the way of perimeter defense (plus Ayton doesn't have a stellar defensive reputation either), and would be pretty much locked in cap-wise with the huge contracts for Wall and Booker. If they gave what would basically be the Brooklyn KG offer on steroids in terms of future draft compensation, I'd certainly consider it (especially given that the Wizards clearly have much better chemistry without Wall).

I'll put it this way: the Nets certainly cost themselves a ton of money with that trade when you consider what happened (being the highest payroll/luxury tax team in history at the time just to be a 2nd round playoff team once) versus the alternative of making high draft picks and stockpiling cap space for when the inevitable free agents wanted to play in a big market. That would certainly work out to at least in the hundreds of millions when it comes to franchise value.

[atlantabbq99]

The only deal I can see getting a 'maybe' would be if Chicago or New York get the #1 pick and AD (with an agreed upon extension) is offered for the #1.

Chicago or New York could then clear cap and then make a play for KD.

[Dat2U]

If a better team moved up and won the lottery, something like an unprotected (or very lightly protected) 2020 pick plus getting a decent player/cap relief in exchange for a bad contract could probably convince me to move down. For example if Memphis got the 1st pick and could do #1 and Parsons for wherever Cleveland's picking, JR Smith (can be waived for cheap), Osman, cap filler and Cleveland's 2020 1st (could say it's top 3 protected if Cleveland is 2nd or 3rd in 2019 and unprotected in 2021).

Then the Grizzlies could have something like

Conley/Carter
Barrett or Reddish/Brooks
Anderson/Osman
Jackson
Gasol

along with 20 plus million in cap space to further upgrade the team. That should give them enough talent (especially if Jackson makes a leap in year 2) to make the pick that would convey to Boston (top 6 protected) not so bad, and then they could compete for the playoffs while having a likely lottery pick in reserve.

Another interesting scenario would be if Washington got the 1st pick. I could imagine Phoenix being desperate to make the playoffs and giving up a ton for #1 plus Wall. Like if Phoenix was offering the maximum amount of picks (unprotecteds plus Milwaukee's pick plus swap rights in the in-between years), Bridges and salary filler for Wall and #1 that would be a tempting reset button for me if I were the Wizards. Then the Suns would have Wall, Booker, Warren, Zion, and Ayton as a starting five.

Otherwise it's probably gonna be tough to make a deal because the tanking teams all have pretty clean cap situations and would be counting on Zion as a free agent draw, plus there are so many free agents that most of the players under contract at the time of the draft would either be untouchable stars or bad 2016 signings.

Let me dead this right now. No one, including the Wizards in any scenario, would trade Zion to dump bad contracts. That's beyond stupid considering Zion will likely be worth billions to the team who ever drafts him.

You don't away a billion dollar asset to save $100+ million.

You just don't have much imagination. I can see the side where if Wall is better than ever before after this surgery, then they could plug Zion in and get right back to being playoff contenders, but if not, Wall is the worst contract in the league.

The Suns lineup I put forward looks very talented on paper, but they're still in the stacked West, would have very little in the way of perimeter defense (plus Ayton doesn't have a stellar defensive reputation either), and would be pretty much locked in cap-wise with the huge contracts for Wall and Booker. If they gave what would basically be the Brooklyn KG offer on steroids in terms of future draft compensation, I'd certainly consider it (especially given that the Wizards clearly have much better chemistry without Wall).

I'll put it this way: the Nets certainly cost themselves a ton of money with that trade when you consider what happened (being the highest payroll/luxury tax team in history at the time just to be a 2nd round playoff team once) versus the alternative of making high draft picks and stockpiling cap space for when the inevitable free agents wanted to play in a big market. That would certainly work out to at least in the hundreds of millions when it comes to franchise value.

The Nets were trading for over the hill stars in an ill-fated attempt at going all in. These situations are not even comparable. There was was transformational player at stake. Sure, getting rid of Wall's contract is ideal but if they were lucky enough to land Zion, you can bet your bottom dollar that they'll pay Wall millions to stay at home if he's a problem before they'll be open to the idea of trading Zion to dump Wall.

Simple math says you don't do that. You don't even entertain it. Imagine Cleveland using LeBron when he was drafted or the Pels using AD when he was drafted to dump their worst contracts! It's not palatable to a fan base and it will never happen.

[clyde21]

The only deal I can see getting a 'maybe' would be if Chicago or New York get the #1 pick and AD (with an agreed upon extension) is offered for the #1.

Chicago or New York could then clear cap and then make a play for KD.

AD is probably the only way this could happen, and I would still think twice about it.