Mfiondu Kabengele

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Re: Mfiondu Kabengele 

Post#161 » by EvanZ » Tue May 28, 2019 10:59 pm

pad300 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
pad300 wrote:For the same reason that everyone wants every player to be able to play down. For physical advantage. If you have 2 size and can play (and defend) the 1, it makes you a better, more valuable player. If you have 5 size and can play enough on the perimeter (ie have enough mobility and a jumpshot) to be a 4, your valuable. Just like TD started his career at the 4...


Kab is a 5...just stop.


You think he is less mobile than a 33 yr old LMA? Cause LMA was playing PF besides Poetl against Denver.


Remind me who won that series...
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Re: Mfiondu Kabengele 

Post#162 » by pad300 » Wed May 29, 2019 4:51 am

EvanZ wrote:
pad300 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
Kab is a 5...just stop.


You think he is less mobile than a 33 yr old LMA? Cause LMA was playing PF besides Poetl against Denver.


Remind me who won that series...

Yes, the 2 seed beat the 7 seed.
In 7 games.
SAS's biggest problems in that series was poor guard play, particularly off the bench. The other major issue was that their regular season 4's - Bertans and Gay - were too weak against Millsap, forcing the Poetl - Aldridge lineups.

EvanZ, both you and Clyde21 have of course ignored the caveats in my statements "can play enought on the perimeter (ie have enough mobility and a jumpshot)". So lets take a peek at what Kab put up in the combine; 11.21 agility, 3.30 shuttle, 3.38 sprint. Well, Dedric Lawson, who is a pure PF put up 11.8, 3.54, 3.6. Jaylen Hoard 11.44, 3.32, 3.33. Shittu 11.85, 3.27, 3.33. Kab obviously isn't going to be a super-bouncy PF, but his agility and shuttle hold up pretty well for a PF. a 7'4" wingspan and an obvious strength/weight advantage = he might be able to handle the perimeter defensive load for a PF. Add the fact he might just have a jumper (tankathon projects a .346 3FG%), and well...
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Re: Mfiondu Kabengele 

Post#163 » by Catchall » Wed May 29, 2019 6:08 am

EvanZ wrote:
pad300 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
Kab is a 5...just stop.


You think he is less mobile than a 33 yr old LMA? Cause LMA was playing PF besides Poetl against Denver.


Remind me who won that series...


Denver sometimes plays two bigs with both Jokic and Plumlee. So did Portland (who beat Denver) with two of Kanter, Collins and Leonard. If your big can guard on the perimeter and space the floor, there's no problem playing two real bigs.
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Re: Mfiondu Kabengele 

Post#164 » by EvanZ » Wed May 29, 2019 5:02 pm

pad300 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
pad300 wrote:
You think he is less mobile than a 33 yr old LMA? Cause LMA was playing PF besides Poetl against Denver.


Remind me who won that series...

Yes, the 2 seed beat the 7 seed.
In 7 games.
SAS's biggest problems in that series was poor guard play, particularly off the bench. The other major issue was that their regular season 4's - Bertans and Gay - were too weak against Millsap, forcing the Poetl - Aldridge lineups.

EvanZ, both you and Clyde21 have of course ignored the caveats in my statements "can play enought on the perimeter (ie have enough mobility and a jumpshot)". So lets take a peek at what Kab put up in the combine; 11.21 agility, 3.30 shuttle, 3.38 sprint. Well, Dedric Lawson, who is a pure PF put up 11.8, 3.54, 3.6. Jaylen Hoard 11.44, 3.32, 3.33. Shittu 11.85, 3.27, 3.33. Kab obviously isn't going to be a super-bouncy PF, but his agility and shuttle hold up pretty well for a PF. a 7'4" wingspan and an obvious strength/weight advantage = he might be able to handle the perimeter defensive load for a PF. Add the fact he might just have a jumper (tankathon projects a .346 3FG%), and well...


Dedric Lawson is maybe the least athletic player in the entire Draft. Not a great point of comparison. None of the guys you mentioned are really athletic enough to be 4's. I really am mystified why you'd want to make Kab a 4 instead of a 5. Like ever. Who is the 5 you imagine him playing next to?
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Re: Mfiondu Kabengele 

Post#165 » by EvanZ » Wed May 29, 2019 5:03 pm

Catchall wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
pad300 wrote:
You think he is less mobile than a 33 yr old LMA? Cause LMA was playing PF besides Poetl against Denver.


Remind me who won that series...


Denver sometimes plays two bigs with both Jokic and Plumlee. So did Portland (who beat Denver) with two of Kanter, Collins and Leonard. If your big can guard on the perimeter and space the floor, there's no problem playing two real bigs.


Ok, let's see how often Gasol and Ibaka play together in the Finals. Because according to y'all, Ibaka is a 4 right? :lol:
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Re: Mfiondu Kabengele 

Post#166 » by pad300 » Wed May 29, 2019 5:43 pm

EvanZ wrote:
pad300 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
Remind me who won that series...

Yes, the 2 seed beat the 7 seed.
In 7 games.
SAS's biggest problems in that series was poor guard play, particularly off the bench. The other major issue was that their regular season 4's - Bertans and Gay - were too weak against Millsap, forcing the Poetl - Aldridge lineups.

EvanZ, both you and Clyde21 have of course ignored the caveats in my statements "can play enought on the perimeter (ie have enough mobility and a jumpshot)". So lets take a peek at what Kab put up in the combine; 11.21 agility, 3.30 shuttle, 3.38 sprint. Well, Dedric Lawson, who is a pure PF put up 11.8, 3.54, 3.6. Jaylen Hoard 11.44, 3.32, 3.33. Shittu 11.85, 3.27, 3.33. Kab obviously isn't going to be a super-bouncy PF, but his agility and shuttle hold up pretty well for a PF. a 7'4" wingspan and an obvious strength/weight advantage = he might be able to handle the perimeter defensive load for a PF. Add the fact he might just have a jumper (tankathon projects a .346 3FG%), and well...


Dedric Lawson is maybe the least athletic player in the entire Draft. Not a great point of comparison. None of the guys you mentioned are really athletic enough to be 4's. I really am mystified why you'd want to make Kab a 4 instead of a 5. Like ever. Who is the 5 you imagine him playing next to?


Aldridge or Poetl would be the 5's... I'm not going to tell you I'm certain it works, but kab (IMO) is significantly more mobile than either of them. The players SAS currently uses at that 4 spot when not big (Aldridge - Poetl) :
1) Rudy Gay, who started as a SF, but has slowed down a bunch with age and injury. 6'8" tall, 7'3" wingspan
2) Davis Bertans, young and still mobile, 6'10" but alligator arms 6'10" wingspan, and gets overpowered by stronger 4's.

Obviously Kab has a huge strength advantage. He's got a size advantage over Bertans, and I'm not convinced he's giving up a lot of mobility to Rudy (Rudy has suffered significantly from his ruptured achilles in 2017).

PS Some old combine results here,
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/NBA-Pre-Draft-Camp-Athletic-Testing-Combine-Results-1352/
Aldridge 12.02 agility 3.43 sprint
Rudy Gay 11.03 agility 3.32 sprint
Neither Poetl nor Bertans did the draft combine athletic tests.
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Re: Mfiondu Kabengele 

Post#167 » by EvanZ » Wed May 29, 2019 5:46 pm

pad300 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
pad300 wrote: Yes, the 2 seed beat the 7 seed.
In 7 games.
SAS's biggest problems in that series was poor guard play, particularly off the bench. The other major issue was that their regular season 4's - Bertans and Gay - were too weak against Millsap, forcing the Poetl - Aldridge lineups.

EvanZ, both you and Clyde21 have of course ignored the caveats in my statements "can play enought on the perimeter (ie have enough mobility and a jumpshot)". So lets take a peek at what Kab put up in the combine; 11.21 agility, 3.30 shuttle, 3.38 sprint. Well, Dedric Lawson, who is a pure PF put up 11.8, 3.54, 3.6. Jaylen Hoard 11.44, 3.32, 3.33. Shittu 11.85, 3.27, 3.33. Kab obviously isn't going to be a super-bouncy PF, but his agility and shuttle hold up pretty well for a PF. a 7'4" wingspan and an obvious strength/weight advantage = he might be able to handle the perimeter defensive load for a PF. Add the fact he might just have a jumper (tankathon projects a .346 3FG%), and well...


Dedric Lawson is maybe the least athletic player in the entire Draft. Not a great point of comparison. None of the guys you mentioned are really athletic enough to be 4's. I really am mystified why you'd want to make Kab a 4 instead of a 5. Like ever. Who is the 5 you imagine him playing next to?


Aldridge or Poetl would be the 5's... I'm not going to tell you I'm certain it works, but kab (IMO) is significantly more mobile than either of them. The players SAS currently uses at that 4 spot when not big (Aldridge - Poetl) :
1) Rudy Gay, who started as a SF, but has slowed down a bunch with age and injury. 6'8" tall, 7'3" wingspan
2) Davis Bertans, young and still mobile, 6'10" but alligator arms 6'10" wingspan, and gets overpowered by stronger 4's.

Obviously Kab has a huge strength advantage. He's got a size advantage over Bertans, and I'm not convinced he's giving up a lot of mobility to Rudy (Rudy has suffered significantly from his ruptured achilles in 2017).

PS Some old combine results here,
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/NBA-Pre-Draft-Camp-Athletic-Testing-Combine-Results-1352/
Aldridge 12.02 agility 3.43 sprint
Rudy Gay 11.03 agility 3.32 sprint
Neither Poetl nor Bertans did the draft combine athletic tests.


The Spurs are probably the last team that would ever draft Kab. They don't want a guy who is a complete black hole. That is not Pop's game.
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Re: Mfiondu Kabengele 

Post#168 » by clyde21 » Wed May 29, 2019 7:03 pm

dude, Kab at 4 is nonsense. what makes him an intriguing prospect is his mobility package and ability to hit 3s as a Center, by putting him at the 4 you minimize those advantages. also at the 4 you'd want someone who can be more of a playmaker.

just stop. if you're drafting him to put him at PF, you're doing it wrong, and you have a poor read on today's NBA environment.
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Re: Mfiondu Kabengele 

Post#169 » by Madhouse » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:58 pm

Feel good about him being the steal of the draft. Moves well, can shoot and block shots.
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Re: Mfiondu Kabengele 

Post#170 » by BlazersBroncos » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:20 pm

I think he is about as close as a prospect can get to Marreese Speights. Good jump shooter, 3PT range, black hole offensively, questionable instincts despite a NBA ready body, mediocre rebounder that looked better in college than he will in the NBA (IMO). A lot of similarities.
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Re: Mfiondu Kabengele 

Post#171 » by Fischella » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:15 pm

I think he is Thomas Bryant, slightly better athlete

late 2nd, sure, at the range he is going = madness
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Re: Mfiondu Kabengele 

Post#172 » by Kalela » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:52 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:I think he is about as close as a prospect can get to Marreese Speights. Good jump shooter, 3PT range, black hole offensively, questionable instincts despite a NBA ready body, mediocre rebounder that looked better in college than he will in the NBA (IMO). A lot of similarities.


I didn't really pay attention to Speights in his earlier years in the league but all I can remember from his latter days is him being really fat and slow. Nothing like Kabengele.
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Re: Mfiondu Kabengele 

Post#173 » by BlazersBroncos » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:20 pm

I think he is Thomas Bryant, slightly better athlete

late 2nd, sure, at the range he is going = madness


Bryant is a serviceable young big man. You think guys that project to be serviceable rotation bigs are late R2 prospects? Getting a rotation 7-8th man in late R1 should be seen as a hit. According to his career trajectory, Bryant seems like a guy that should have gone earlier, likely in the 22-25 range.

Do you expect all R1 picks to be clear above average starters? Because that's not how the draft works.
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Re: Mfiondu Kabengele 

Post#174 » by kobyz » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:10 am

Similar to Bobby Portis
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Re: Mfiondu Kabengele 

Post#175 » by Mavericksfan » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:36 am

I feel like he is a perfect fit for the Sixers

Size, mobility, and decent shooting at the 5
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Re: Mfiondu Kabengele 

Post#176 » by Fischella » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:57 am

BlazersBroncos wrote:
I think he is Thomas Bryant, slightly better athlete

late 2nd, sure, at the range he is going = madness


Bryant is a serviceable young big man. You think guys that project to be serviceable rotation bigs are late R2 prospects? Getting a rotation 7-8th man in late R1 should be seen as a hit. According to his career trajectory, Bryant seems like a guy that should have gone earlier, likely in the 22-25 range.

Do you expect all R1 picks to be clear above average starters? Because that's not how the draft works.

Bryant is a fine/serviceable offensive Center with no hope to be any good on defense ever, he is a mid to late 2nd player yeah

You bet on value, not on floors that add no value, getting a player like Bryant for the minimum every off-season it's damn easy
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Re: Mfiondu Kabengele 

Post#177 » by Ruzious » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:38 am

Fischella wrote:
BlazersBroncos wrote:
I think he is Thomas Bryant, slightly better athlete

late 2nd, sure, at the range he is going = madness


Bryant is a serviceable young big man. You think guys that project to be serviceable rotation bigs are late R2 prospects? Getting a rotation 7-8th man in late R1 should be seen as a hit. According to his career trajectory, Bryant seems like a guy that should have gone earlier, likely in the 22-25 range.

Do you expect all R1 picks to be clear above average starters? Because that's not how the draft works.

Bryant is a fine/serviceable offensive Center with no hope to be any good on defense ever, he is a mid to late 2nd player yeah

You bet on value, not on floors that add no value, getting a player like Bryant for the minimum every off-season it's damn easy

Most of those players that have been available cheap were let go by the poorly run Lakers. I wouldn't expect them to be as easily available so cheaply in the future. Bryant has a lot of value. He was very productive and efficient last season, and he does have defensive potential - he's a quality shot-blocker and just needs more experience and good teaching. He's also got great hands - a very important quality for a big. He's very different from Bobby Portis - who was mentioned earlier. Portis is a very inefficient player who doesn't rebound well, has poor hands, and is the worst defensive big in the NBA.
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Re: Mfiondu Kabengele 

Post#178 » by Yuri Vaultin » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:31 pm

kobyz wrote:Similar to Bobby Portis

Does Kabengele routinely break teammates' faces?
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Re: Mfiondu Kabengele 

Post#179 » by Fischella » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:43 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Fischella wrote:
BlazersBroncos wrote:
Bryant is a serviceable young big man. You think guys that project to be serviceable rotation bigs are late R2 prospects? Getting a rotation 7-8th man in late R1 should be seen as a hit. According to his career trajectory, Bryant seems like a guy that should have gone earlier, likely in the 22-25 range.

Do you expect all R1 picks to be clear above average starters? Because that's not how the draft works.

Bryant is a fine/serviceable offensive Center with no hope to be any good on defense ever, he is a mid to late 2nd player yeah

You bet on value, not on floors that add no value, getting a player like Bryant for the minimum every off-season it's damn easy

Most of those players that have been available cheap were let go by the poorly run Lakers. I wouldn't expect them to be as easily available so cheaply in the future. Bryant has a lot of value. He was very productive and efficient last season, and he does have defensive potential - he's a quality shot-blocker and just needs more experience and good teaching. He's also got great hands - a very important quality for a big. He's very different from Bobby Portis - who was mentioned earlier. Portis is a very inefficient player who doesn't rebound well, has poor hands, and is the worst defensive big in the NBA.

I don't care about the Lakers, getting guys like Bryant it's routinely easy, every off-season you can get a bunch of guys for the minimum

Bryant can defend okay around ther rim, has no hope whenever he has to move, which is... well a problem, he was atrocious on defense last season and put up numbers because he played a ton and played with a great Guard in Beal, he is overrated
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Re: Mfiondu Kabengele 

Post#180 » by Ruzious » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:39 pm

Fischella wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
Fischella wrote:Bryant is a fine/serviceable offensive Center with no hope to be any good on defense ever, he is a mid to late 2nd player yeah

You bet on value, not on floors that add no value, getting a player like Bryant for the minimum every off-season it's damn easy

Most of those players that have been available cheap were let go by the poorly run Lakers. I wouldn't expect them to be as easily available so cheaply in the future. Bryant has a lot of value. He was very productive and efficient last season, and he does have defensive potential - he's a quality shot-blocker and just needs more experience and good teaching. He's also got great hands - a very important quality for a big. He's very different from Bobby Portis - who was mentioned earlier. Portis is a very inefficient player who doesn't rebound well, has poor hands, and is the worst defensive big in the NBA.

I don't care about the Lakers, getting guys like Bryant it's routinely easy, every off-season you can get a bunch of guys for the minimum

Bryant can defend okay around ther rim, has no hope whenever he has to move, which is... well a problem, he was atrocious on defense last season and put up numbers because he played a ton and played with a great Guard in Beal, he is overrated

Lol, correct - you don't care, and you make things up. Why you find the need to do that - I don't know.

He put up numbers because he played a ton? Huh? He played 20.8 minutes a game. His per 36 minute numbers were 18.2 points, 10.9 rebounds, 1.6 blocks, and 2.2 assists to 1.4 turnovers. He had a 21.0 PER, a 67.4% TS%, 64.8 eFG, shot 68.5% from 2, 33.3% from 3, and 78.1% FT's. He did this because he played with a great shooting guard? Are you kidding? He also did it without a PG who could create for most of the season and mediocre forwards. The Wizards were not exactly loaded with offensive talent around him. Yes, he's got a lot to work on defensively, but it's nonsensical to say he can't get better there. He's a very hard worker, and there's no reason to believe he won't get better. Milwaukee had the number 1 ranked defense in the NBA, and who was their center - Brook Lopez. Bryant has more defensive potential than Lopez and a lot of other centers. It's a matter of him learning to be better.
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