Bol Bol

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Re: Bol Bol 

Post#481 » by clyde21 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:58 pm

^ a lot of hyperbole and exaggeration there, makes it really tough to even want to respond to honestly.
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Re: Bol Bol 

Post#482 » by Alatan » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:35 pm

Ive been watching a ton of Bol highlight recently and man i dont know what are those scouts smoking but im so glad they are. Bol Bol is a stud. I dont understand how he fell that far but im praising the NBA gods that he did.
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Re: Bol Bol 

Post#483 » by CoreyVillains » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:38 pm

clyde21 wrote:^ a lot of hyperbole and exaggeration there, makes it really tough to even want to respond to honestly.


So much hyperbole that he went in the mid second round. He's a raw talent. He can shoot, he can dribble without turning it over, he can block a shot. He doesn't yet know how to put it all together and play basketball in a way that an NBA coach would like him to. It is what it is, you can disagree, but if you were right he'd have been a lotto pick.
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Re: Bol Bol 

Post#484 » by clyde21 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:49 pm

CoreyVillains wrote:
clyde21 wrote:^ a lot of hyperbole and exaggeration there, makes it really tough to even want to respond to honestly.


So much hyperbole that he went in the mid second round. He's a raw talent. He can shoot, he can dribble without turning it over, he can block a shot. He doesn't yet know how to put it all together and play basketball in a way that an NBA coach would like him to. It is what it is, you can disagree, but if you were right he'd have been a lotto pick.


wait, you mean an 18-year-old is still learning how to play basketball at the highest levels?

shocker.

this guy was on pace to have one of the best freshmen seasons we've seen. let's chill off on 'he doesn't understand the nuances' just yet.
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Re: Bol Bol 

Post#485 » by CoreyVillains » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:56 pm

clyde21 wrote:
CoreyVillains wrote:
clyde21 wrote:^ a lot of hyperbole and exaggeration there, makes it really tough to even want to respond to honestly.


So much hyperbole that he went in the mid second round. He's a raw talent. He can shoot, he can dribble without turning it over, he can block a shot. He doesn't yet know how to put it all together and play basketball in a way that an NBA coach would like him to. It is what it is, you can disagree, but if you were right he'd have been a lotto pick.


wait, you mean an 18-year-old is still learning how to play basketball at the highest levels?

shocker.

this guy was on pace to have one of the best freshmen seasons we've seen. let's chill off on 'he doesn't understand the nuances' just yet.


I dont think its shocking at all that someone as tall and naturally gifted from a pure skills perspective doesn't understand how to play high level basketball. It shouldnt surprise anyone that a guy who came up through the AAU circuit with his physical attributes wasn't exactly learning the nuances of the game. However, why should we be saying lets chill on the "he doesnt understand the nuances yet"? Thats like one of his biggest weaknesses. It'd be like saying that we should chill on saying a player isn't super skilled when they havent shown to be skilled. Bol's basketball IQ is very bad. Will it get better? It could, sure. The Nuggets will need to be patient with him and he'll have to work way harder at learning the game than he's ever worked. But he certainly doesn't have the natural feel and understanding of the game that certain prospects do and it isn't something that low bball IQ guys always get better at. It's not like I'm rooting against the kid to succeed. And as a teacher I know that not every teenager has developed the work ethic they'll have as they mature to adulthood, so he certainly could put in the work. However, based on team situation and how far behind he is on the BBall IQ front, I don't think its likely he ever becomes a high level impact player.
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Re: Bol Bol 

Post#486 » by clyde21 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:35 pm

CoreyVillains wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
CoreyVillains wrote:
So much hyperbole that he went in the mid second round. He's a raw talent. He can shoot, he can dribble without turning it over, he can block a shot. He doesn't yet know how to put it all together and play basketball in a way that an NBA coach would like him to. It is what it is, you can disagree, but if you were right he'd have been a lotto pick.


wait, you mean an 18-year-old is still learning how to play basketball at the highest levels?

shocker.

this guy was on pace to have one of the best freshmen seasons we've seen. let's chill off on 'he doesn't understand the nuances' just yet.


I dont think its shocking at all that someone as tall and naturally gifted from a pure skills perspective doesn't understand how to play high level basketball. It shouldnt surprise anyone that a guy who came up through the AAU circuit with his physical attributes wasn't exactly learning the nuances of the game. However, why should we be saying lets chill on the "he doesnt understand the nuances yet"? Thats like one of his biggest weaknesses. It'd be like saying that we should chill on saying a player isn't super skilled when they havent shown to be skilled. Bol's basketball IQ is very bad. Will it get better? It could, sure. The Nuggets will need to be patient with him and he'll have to work way harder at learning the game than he's ever worked. But he certainly doesn't have the natural feel and understanding of the game that certain prospects do and it isn't something that low bball IQ guys always get better at. It's not like I'm rooting against the kid to succeed. And as a teacher I know that not every teenager has developed the work ethic they'll have as they mature to adulthood, so he certainly could put in the work. However, based on team situation and how far behind he is on the BBall IQ front, I don't think its likely he ever becomes a high level impact player.


again, I don't know what you mean by 'organized basketball'. if you mean he needs to get better at the little things, i.e. screen and pick settings, making the right passes in transition, passing out of doubles, etc...then yes, I agree, but that's usually the case for the majority of young bigs.

but Oregon, without a doubt, was infinitely better with him on the court vs. not, and was good enough at 'organized basketball' to be on pace for one of the best college seasons ever despite 'not knowing how to play'.

did you think Deandre Ayton knew how to play organized bball by your standards? Bamba? lol
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Re: Bol Bol 

Post#487 » by yanuary » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:16 am

He shouldnt be drafted with 44 pick.
Few much better prospects were still available.
two-way contract from Denver will be best for Nuggets, he isnt worth wasted spot in roster and guaranteed money.
#13 » by yanuary » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:29 am

In 2025 somewhere we will see topic "worst trades in Lakers history" and this would be #1.
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Re: Bol Bol 

Post#488 » by 916fan » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:22 pm

clyde21 wrote:
CoreyVillains wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
wait, you mean an 18-year-old is still learning how to play basketball at the highest levels?

shocker.

this guy was on pace to have one of the best freshmen seasons we've seen. let's chill off on 'he doesn't understand the nuances' just yet.


I dont think its shocking at all that someone as tall and naturally gifted from a pure skills perspective doesn't understand how to play high level basketball. It shouldnt surprise anyone that a guy who came up through the AAU circuit with his physical attributes wasn't exactly learning the nuances of the game. However, why should we be saying lets chill on the "he doesnt understand the nuances yet"? Thats like one of his biggest weaknesses. It'd be like saying that we should chill on saying a player isn't super skilled when they havent shown to be skilled. Bol's basketball IQ is very bad. Will it get better? It could, sure. The Nuggets will need to be patient with him and he'll have to work way harder at learning the game than he's ever worked. But he certainly doesn't have the natural feel and understanding of the game that certain prospects do and it isn't something that low bball IQ guys always get better at. It's not like I'm rooting against the kid to succeed. And as a teacher I know that not every teenager has developed the work ethic they'll have as they mature to adulthood, so he certainly could put in the work. However, based on team situation and how far behind he is on the BBall IQ front, I don't think its likely he ever becomes a high level impact player.


again, I don't know what you mean by 'organized basketball'. if you mean he needs to get better at the little things, i.e. screen and pick settings, making the right passes in transition, passing out of doubles, etc...then yes, I agree, but that's usually the case for the majority of young bigs.

but Oregon, without a doubt, was infinitely better with him on the court vs. not, and was good enough at 'organized basketball' to be on pace for one of the best college seasons ever despite 'not knowing how to play'.

did you think Deandre Ayton knew how to play organized bball by your standards? Bamba? lol

I think with Bol, the concerns on him not playing team ball or putting in 100% effort goes way back. Then you see the same lack of effort on defense at Oregon, and it gives you pauses. It's been reported so much to the point where there's no reason we should doubt the stories about his work ethic, lack of motor, and attitude. I think that's an important part of a prospect. These concerns held back Andre Drummond (ffs, the East is so bad that he's made 2 all-stars). 7 years later in the NBA, and you still hear Detroit fans wanting to ship him out because of his efffort and attitude. It's something that never goes away.

I wonder if teams are starting to figure out that they'd rather draft impact players in the 1st round instead of players who won't contribute for a whole year. Jontay went undrafted, although his stock was vastly overrated by the internet anyways. MPJ's case is interesting. If Denver wasn't as stacked as they were, how far would he have dropped? Speaking of which... very interesting tweet from a year ago:
Read on Twitter
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Re: Bol Bol 

Post#489 » by clyde21 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:37 pm

916fan wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
CoreyVillains wrote:
I dont think its shocking at all that someone as tall and naturally gifted from a pure skills perspective doesn't understand how to play high level basketball. It shouldnt surprise anyone that a guy who came up through the AAU circuit with his physical attributes wasn't exactly learning the nuances of the game. However, why should we be saying lets chill on the "he doesnt understand the nuances yet"? Thats like one of his biggest weaknesses. It'd be like saying that we should chill on saying a player isn't super skilled when they havent shown to be skilled. Bol's basketball IQ is very bad. Will it get better? It could, sure. The Nuggets will need to be patient with him and he'll have to work way harder at learning the game than he's ever worked. But he certainly doesn't have the natural feel and understanding of the game that certain prospects do and it isn't something that low bball IQ guys always get better at. It's not like I'm rooting against the kid to succeed. And as a teacher I know that not every teenager has developed the work ethic they'll have as they mature to adulthood, so he certainly could put in the work. However, based on team situation and how far behind he is on the BBall IQ front, I don't think its likely he ever becomes a high level impact player.


again, I don't know what you mean by 'organized basketball'. if you mean he needs to get better at the little things, i.e. screen and pick settings, making the right passes in transition, passing out of doubles, etc...then yes, I agree, but that's usually the case for the majority of young bigs.

but Oregon, without a doubt, was infinitely better with him on the court vs. not, and was good enough at 'organized basketball' to be on pace for one of the best college seasons ever despite 'not knowing how to play'.

did you think Deandre Ayton knew how to play organized bball by your standards? Bamba? lol

I think with Bol, the concerns on him not playing team ball or putting in 100% effort goes way back. Then you see the same lack of effort on defense at Oregon, and it gives you pauses. It's been reported so much to the point where there's no reason we should doubt the stories about his work ethic, lack of motor, and attitude. I think that's an important part of a prospect. These concerns held back Andre Drummond (ffs, the East is so bad that he's made 2 all-stars). 7 years later in the NBA, and you still hear Detroit fans wanting to ship him out because of his efffort and attitude. It's something that never goes away.

I wonder if teams are starting to figure out that they'd rather draft impact players in the 1st round instead of players who won't contribute for a whole year. Jontay went undrafted, although his stock was vastly overrated by the internet anyways. MPJ's case is interesting. If Denver wasn't as stacked as they were, how far would he have dropped? Speaking of which... very interesting tweet from a year ago:
Read on Twitter


not saying I disagree, but i feel like people say that about the majority of bigs prospects tho
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Re: Bol Bol 

Post#490 » by nolang1 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:51 pm

clyde21 wrote:
CoreyVillains wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
wait, you mean an 18-year-old is still learning how to play basketball at the highest levels?

shocker.

this guy was on pace to have one of the best freshmen seasons we've seen. let's chill off on 'he doesn't understand the nuances' just yet.


I dont think its shocking at all that someone as tall and naturally gifted from a pure skills perspective doesn't understand how to play high level basketball. It shouldnt surprise anyone that a guy who came up through the AAU circuit with his physical attributes wasn't exactly learning the nuances of the game. However, why should we be saying lets chill on the "he doesnt understand the nuances yet"? Thats like one of his biggest weaknesses. It'd be like saying that we should chill on saying a player isn't super skilled when they havent shown to be skilled. Bol's basketball IQ is very bad. Will it get better? It could, sure. The Nuggets will need to be patient with him and he'll have to work way harder at learning the game than he's ever worked. But he certainly doesn't have the natural feel and understanding of the game that certain prospects do and it isn't something that low bball IQ guys always get better at. It's not like I'm rooting against the kid to succeed. And as a teacher I know that not every teenager has developed the work ethic they'll have as they mature to adulthood, so he certainly could put in the work. However, based on team situation and how far behind he is on the BBall IQ front, I don't think its likely he ever becomes a high level impact player.


again, I don't know what you mean by 'organized basketball'. if you mean he needs to get better at the little things, i.e. screen and pick settings, making the right passes in transition, passing out of doubles, etc...then yes, I agree, but that's usually the case for the majority of young bigs.

but Oregon, without a doubt, was infinitely better with him on the court vs. not, and was good enough at 'organized basketball' to be on pace for one of the best college seasons ever despite 'not knowing how to play'.

did you think Deandre Ayton knew how to play organized bball by your standards? Bamba? lol


Lol infinitely better with him = going 6-3 with wins against cupcakes like Portland State, Eastern Washington, Omaha, and San Diego vs. going 19-10, winning the Pac 12 tournament, and going to the sweet 16 before losing a close game against the eventual national champions without him.
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Re: Bol Bol 

Post#491 » by clyde21 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:58 pm

nolang1 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
CoreyVillains wrote:
I dont think its shocking at all that someone as tall and naturally gifted from a pure skills perspective doesn't understand how to play high level basketball. It shouldnt surprise anyone that a guy who came up through the AAU circuit with his physical attributes wasn't exactly learning the nuances of the game. However, why should we be saying lets chill on the "he doesnt understand the nuances yet"? Thats like one of his biggest weaknesses. It'd be like saying that we should chill on saying a player isn't super skilled when they havent shown to be skilled. Bol's basketball IQ is very bad. Will it get better? It could, sure. The Nuggets will need to be patient with him and he'll have to work way harder at learning the game than he's ever worked. But he certainly doesn't have the natural feel and understanding of the game that certain prospects do and it isn't something that low bball IQ guys always get better at. It's not like I'm rooting against the kid to succeed. And as a teacher I know that not every teenager has developed the work ethic they'll have as they mature to adulthood, so he certainly could put in the work. However, based on team situation and how far behind he is on the BBall IQ front, I don't think its likely he ever becomes a high level impact player.


again, I don't know what you mean by 'organized basketball'. if you mean he needs to get better at the little things, i.e. screen and pick settings, making the right passes in transition, passing out of doubles, etc...then yes, I agree, but that's usually the case for the majority of young bigs.

but Oregon, without a doubt, was infinitely better with him on the court vs. not, and was good enough at 'organized basketball' to be on pace for one of the best college seasons ever despite 'not knowing how to play'.

did you think Deandre Ayton knew how to play organized bball by your standards? Bamba? lol


Lol infinitely better with him = going 6-3 with wins against cupcakes like Portland State, Eastern Washington, Omaha, and San Diego vs. going 19-10, winning the Pac 12 tournament, and going to the sweet 16 before losing a close game against the eventual national champions without him.


you keep repeating the same stuff over and over again. Oregon went .500 the rest of the way up until the very end of the year when they got hot and into the tourney.

if you want to draw your conclusions from that, by all means.
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Re: Bol Bol 

Post#492 » by 916fan » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:59 pm

clyde21 wrote:
not saying I disagree, but i feel like people say that about the majority of bigs prospects tho

I was also high on Bol Bol, but trying to rationalize his drop which tbh, becomes easier when we just look at all of Bols' negatives lol.

I think the motor issues isn't really rampant in all big men. Here's some of the big men(centers) that were drafted recently
2018
Ayton: Y motor issues
Jackson: N
Bamba: N
WCJ: N

2017
Collinsx2: N
BAM: N
Patton: N
Allen: N

2016
Poltl: N
D-MO: N
Papagiannis: N LOL
Zizic: N
Jones: Y(I think Damian Jones had some concerns, but not too sure if I'm mistaking him for someone else

2015
KAT: N
Okafor: Y (mixed bag depending on how you want to view him)
WCS: Y, motor
Turner: N


I don't think it's rampant around big men. Compared to other positions? Yes. But I don't see it as something a lot of big-men prospects struggle with. It seems like the lack of motivation is the biggest factor that kinda leads to the lack of motor. I think a big reason why we see it more with big men is that most of the ones who lack the drive are the ones who were probably pressured into playing it solely because they were big and tall. Not going to act like I know how Bol Bol feels, but he's got a ton of pressure to live up to because of his dad. He's a very talented basketball player no doubt, but there's so many grey clouds surrounding how much he wants it.
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Re: Bol Bol 

Post#493 » by clyde21 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:03 pm

916fan wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
not saying I disagree, but i feel like people say that about the majority of bigs prospects tho

I was also high on Bol Bol, but trying to rationalize his drop which tbh, becomes easier when we just look at all of Bols' negatives lol.

I think the motor issues isn't really rampant in all big men. Here's some of the big men(centers) that were drafted recently
2018
Ayton: Y motor issues
Jackson: N
Bamba: N
WCJ: N

2017
Collinsx2: N
BAM: N
Patton: N
Allen: N

2016
Poltl: N
D-MO: N
Papagiannis: N LOL
Zizic: N
Jones: Y(I think Damian Jones had some concerns, but not too sure if I'm mistaking him for someone else

2015
KAT: N
Okafor: Y (mixed bag depending on how you want to view him)
WCS: Y, motor
Turner: N


I don't think it's rampant around big men. Compared to other positions? Yes. But I don't see it as something a lot of big-men prospects struggle with. It seems like the lack of motivation is the biggest factor that kinda leads to the lack of motor. I think a big reason why we see it more with big men is that most of the ones who lack the drive are the ones who were probably pressured into playing it solely because they were big and tall. Not going to act like I know how Bol Bol feels, but he's got a ton of pressure to live up to because of his dad. He's a very talented basketball player no doubt, but there's so many grey clouds surrounding how much he wants it.



im not saying all big mean have these concerns, i'm saying the 'motor' thing gets tossed around about almost every big man as if it's a default criticism. watching Bol's Oregon games this year, I don't think motor was a huge issue compared to a lot of other bigs. it's been overplayed tbh.

also, disagree with some of your Ns you have up there, but that's another discussion entirely.
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Re: Bol Bol 

Post#494 » by nolang1 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:36 pm

clyde21 wrote:
nolang1 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
again, I don't know what you mean by 'organized basketball'. if you mean he needs to get better at the little things, i.e. screen and pick settings, making the right passes in transition, passing out of doubles, etc...then yes, I agree, but that's usually the case for the majority of young bigs.

but Oregon, without a doubt, was infinitely better with him on the court vs. not, and was good enough at 'organized basketball' to be on pace for one of the best college seasons ever despite 'not knowing how to play'.

did you think Deandre Ayton knew how to play organized bball by your standards? Bamba? lol


Lol infinitely better with him = going 6-3 with wins against cupcakes like Portland State, Eastern Washington, Omaha, and San Diego vs. going 19-10, winning the Pac 12 tournament, and going to the sweet 16 before losing a close game against the eventual national champions without him.


you keep repeating the same stuff over and over again. Oregon went .500 the rest of the way up until the very end of the year when they got hot and into the tourney.

if you want to draw your conclusions from that, by all means.


It certainly bears repeating to counteract all the blatant misinformation you spew out in a faux-authoritative tone. Obviously 6-3 against a cupcake schedule isn't "without a doubt infinitely better" than .500 against mostly major conference competition (and again, .500 is only the result of saying like half of their games without him don't count for some arbitrary reason) and is in fact most likely worse. If I wanted to selectively toss out games to make my argument sound better as you've been doing, it would be pretty easy to say that if you throw out the Syracuse game (proportionally much smaller than throwing out the last 4 games of the regular season, the entire Pac-12 tournament, and the entire NCAA tournament), Oregon with Bol only managed to beat teams from mid-major conferences and went 0-2 against teams that had a player taller than 6'8 in the starting lineup.
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Re: Bol Bol 

Post#495 » by NO-KG-AI » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:39 pm

I think when people see this super tall guys dribbling and shooting, they get an unrealistic expectation of how well they will be able to do that in the league. I used to fall into that line of thinking for years before I realized it's not going to happen for 99% of them, because they are almost never going to do it at the level that would justify taking the ball out of a guard's hands to let them do it.

Bol Bol taking pullups off the dribble or trying to drive the lane at his speed is a win for your defense as an opposing coach. You take that every time.
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Re: Bol Bol 

Post#496 » by clyde21 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:11 pm

no one is expecting Bol Bol to run offense.
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Re: Bol Bol 

Post#497 » by NO-KG-AI » Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:08 am

No one is expecting Bol Bol to do anything at this point


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Doctor MJ wrote:I don't understand why people jump in a thread and say basically, "This thing you're all talking about. I'm too ignorant to know anything about it. Lollerskates!"
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Re: Bol Bol 

Post#498 » by clyde21 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:12 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:No one is expecting Bol Bol to do anything at this point


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not sure what changed, if you were expecting him to 'do anything' before the draft you still are now, and vice versa
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Re: Bol Bol 

Post#499 » by yanuary » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:28 am

clyde21 wrote:
NO-KG-AI wrote:No one is expecting Bol Bol to do anything at this point


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not sure what changed, if you were expecting him to 'do anything' before the draft you still are now, and vice versa

He was your #2 BPA in this draft, right?
Send a CV to Wizards/Suns, fit there :lol:
#13 » by yanuary » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:29 am

In 2025 somewhere we will see topic "worst trades in Lakers history" and this would be #1.
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Re: Bol Bol 

Post#500 » by clyde21 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:13 pm

yanuary wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
NO-KG-AI wrote:No one is expecting Bol Bol to do anything at this point


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not sure what changed, if you were expecting him to 'do anything' before the draft you still are now, and vice versa

He was your #2 BPA in this draft, right?
Send a CV to Wizards/Suns, fit there :lol:


easily #2, tier by himself too.

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