Somebody explain these guys to me

Coeur · Post #21 » by **Coeur** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:38 pm

It’s gettin crazy on Williams here. I still say gw<Robert Franks

Ok but really how do you draft a qb this year if you’re the raiders or broncos? Tua and Justin Herbert next year both are better than all 9 qbs taken in last years and this years 1st rounds

Chuck Everett · Post #22 » by **Chuck Everett** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:36 pm

Grant Williams is way too short. He's going to have to convert to a SF to have a long-term career, which means he is deep bench or he will improve his perimeter game immensely.

Stillwater · Post #23 » by **Stillwater** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:44 pm

Chuck Everett wrote:Grant Williams is way too short. He's going to have to convert to a SF to have a long-term career, which means he is deep bench or he will improve his perimeter game immensely.

How is 6'8" with a 7' ws way to short? it's not elite, but given his offensive ability as the key ticket to the league, I don't see it being a major issue. If those numbers are exaggerations maybe...I've seen 6'7 and 6'11" from measurements over 2 years ago. And seen him standing next to players listed at 6'7" and he was taller etc

Justwar · Post #24 » by **Justwar** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:15 am

Stillwater wrote:
Chuck Everett wrote:Grant Williams is way too short. He's going to have to convert to a SF to have a long-term career, which means he is deep bench or he will improve his perimeter game immensely.

How is 6'8" with a 7' ws way to short? it's not elite, but given his offensive ability as the key ticket to the league, I don't see it being a major issue. If those numbers are exaggerations maybe...I've seen 6'7 and 6'11" from measurements over 2 years ago. And seen him standing next to players listed at 6'7" and he was taller etc

Curious who he was taller than? He definitely looked shorter than pj. Pj is 6'6" 1/2 without shoes. From what I understand 6'4" 1/2 was from a senior camp from hs. Never seen him listed higher than 6'7",his arms as well don't seem really long either.

Stillwater · Post #25 » by **Stillwater** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:37 am

Justwar wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
Chuck Everett wrote:Grant Williams is way too short. He's going to have to convert to a SF to have a long-term career, which means he is deep bench or he will improve his perimeter game immensely.

How is 6'8" with a 7' ws way to short? it's not elite, but given his offensive ability as the key ticket to the league, I don't see it being a major issue. If those numbers are exaggerations maybe...I've seen 6'7 and 6'11" from measurements over 2 years ago. And seen him standing next to players listed at 6'7" and he was taller etc
Stillwater wrote:
Chuck Everett wrote:Grant Williams is way too short. He's going to have to convert to a SF to have a long-term career, which means he is deep bench or he will improve his perimeter game immensely.

How is 6'8" with a 7' ws way to short? it's not elite, but given his offensive ability as the key ticket to the league, I don't see it being a major issue. If those numbers are exaggerations maybe...I've seen 6'7 and 6'11" from measurements over 2 years ago. And seen him standing next to players listed at 6'7" and he was taller etc

Curious who he was taller than? He definitely looked shorter than pj. Pj is 6'6" 1/2 without shoes. From what I understand 6'4" 1/2 was from a senior camp from hs. Never seen him listed higher than 6'7",his arms as well don't seem really long either.

Couldn't remember, but heres a pic with Zion whos listed at 6'7 so you decide
[url]

looks about the same to me

Justwar · Post #26 » by **Justwar** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:09 am

Stillwater wrote:
Justwar wrote:
Stillwater wrote:How is 6'8" with a 7' ws way to short? it's not elite, but given his offensive ability as the key ticket to the league, I don't see it being a major issue. If those numbers are exaggerations maybe...I've seen 6'7 and 6'11" from measurements over 2 years ago. And seen him standing next to players listed at 6'7" and he was taller etc
Stillwater wrote:How is 6'8" with a 7' ws way to short? it's not elite, but given his offensive ability as the key ticket to the league, I don't see it being a major issue. If those numbers are exaggerations maybe...I've seen 6'7 and 6'11" from measurements over 2 years ago. And seen him standing next to players listed at 6'7" and he was taller etc

Curious who he was taller than? He definitely looked shorter than pj. Pj is 6'6" 1/2 without shoes. From what I understand 6'4" 1/2 was from a senior camp from hs. Never seen him listed higher than 6'7",his arms as well don't seem really long either.
Couldn't remember, but heres a pic with Zion whos listed at 6'7 so you decide
[url]

looks about the same to me

Depth of the picture and angles are hard to tell but if you just compare to the hairline I see him being a half inch shorter than zion. Maybe it's just me. However a year and a half ago zion measured at 6'5" without shoes. I don't know if he grew though since.

clyde21 · Post #27 » by **clyde21** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:02 am

Grant has a weird body it's a wait and see for me...his arms look short in uniform but maybe it's b/c of how he's built...if I had to guess I'd say 6-7 with a 6-9 ws but we'll see.

GoBobs · Post #28 » by **GoBobs** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:17 am

Coeur wrote:
GoBobs wrote:Grant Williams is probably the third best prospect in the draft.

He is not explosive, doesn't have a quick first step and doesn't play above the rim so he has a low ceiling, but he has an extremely high floor. Williams will be a good nba role player from day one. He has a very high basketball iq on the defensive end and is a very good free throw shooter already for his size and position. He is an experienced offensive player who can make difficult shots in the key or the post, distribute and has a well rounded all around game.

A good nba comparison is J Dudley or PJ Tucker. He doesn't have the 3pt shot of these guys yet but he will likely develop that to fit the nba game. It shouldn't be a problem for him considering he is already a very consistent shooter inside the arc and from the free throw line.

The thing is nobody is excited about drafting PJ Tucker or J Dudley so he will likely go between 20 and the end of the first round. A lot of teams would rather get a potential star even if they don't get production right away and risk picking a bust. Williams is an A+ locker room guy who's impact will go beyond his play on the floor and will contribute to wins right away.

Opening line threw me for a loop I’m still recovering from

Most drafts have like one or two guys that are real difference makers. After that you are getting a player in the range between Aaron Gordon and Justice Winslow level talent these days if you are lucky enough to avoid the outright busts. Probably a young guy that played one year of college ball. You will likely need to spend a few years developing him to nba starter level and then maybe get two or three years of production before his rookie contract runs out. After that you have to decide what to pay, and you will likely be paying based on potential just like you drafted the guy based on potential.

With Grant Williams he will be a solid NBA starter from day one. A team will get more like 4 or 5 years of cheap production for a very good player. He doesn't have superstar potential but you likely won't have to pay for that on his next contract just like you won't have to pay with a high draft pick to acquire him. He will do a ton of little things that contribute to wins for your team like box his guy out, play smart defense, be efficient on offense, make his free throws, and be a positive influence on your locker room.

He is a nice fit for the modern NBA game. It is easy to get a mismatch with your big on a smaller guy because everyone is switching everything in the pick and roll. He is adept and experienced at scoring anywhere from the free throw line in. Individual defense is not that valuable right now because everyone can just run pick and roll to force a switch to get a better defensive match up. Grant is not a great individual defender in terms of foot speed, but he will be a great team defender from day one because he will make the right rotation.

No-Man · Post #29 » by **No-Man** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:55 am

Grant is 6-7 in shoes, Zion is 6-6, Williams has a 6-11 wingspan

kobyz · Post #30 » by **kobyz** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:12 pm

another nice comparison for Grant Williams is Kenny Thomas...

eminence · Post #31 » by **eminence** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:33 pm

Grant isn't going to be a big forward by any means, but ya gotta remember how small most 4's are these days. Utah's most played guys at the 4 this playoffs are Ingles, Crowder and Niang. Crowder measured 6'4.75", 6'9.25", 8'3", 241 lbs at the combine.

clyde21 · Post #32 » by **clyde21** » Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:53 am

eminence wrote:Grant isn't going to be a big forward by any means, but ya gotta remember how small most 4's are these days. Utah's most played guys at the 4 this playoffs are Ingles, Crowder and Niang. Crowder measured 6'4.75", 6'9.25", 8'3", 241 lbs at the combine.

true, but Gobert is what makes that possible to a degree. Grant will have no problem playing 4 either but it has to be the right fit.

eminence · Post #33 » by **eminence** » Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:59 am

clyde21 wrote:
eminence wrote:Grant isn't going to be a big forward by any means, but ya gotta remember how small most 4's are these days. Utah's most played guys at the 4 this playoffs are Ingles, Crowder and Niang. Crowder measured 6'4.75", 6'9.25", 8'3", 241 lbs at the combine.

true, but Gobert is what makes that possible to a degree. Grant will have no problem playing 4 either but it has to be the right fit.

Ehh, kinda not really imo. Like there's probably a fit where it doesn't work, but he works most places just fine.

clyde21 · Post #34 » by **clyde21** » Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:01 am

eminence wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
eminence wrote:Grant isn't going to be a big forward by any means, but ya gotta remember how small most 4's are these days. Utah's most played guys at the 4 this playoffs are Ingles, Crowder and Niang. Crowder measured 6'4.75", 6'9.25", 8'3", 241 lbs at the combine.

true, but Gobert is what makes that possible to a degree. Grant will have no problem playing 4 either but it has to be the right fit.

Ehh, kinda not really imo. Like there's probably a fit where it doesn't work, but he works most places just fine.

he won't work if you don't have post defense or shot blocking behind him.

eminence · Post #35 » by **eminence** » Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:08 am

clyde21 wrote:
eminence wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
true, but Gobert is what makes that possible to a degree. Grant will have no problem playing 4 either but it has to be the right fit.

Ehh, kinda not really imo. Like there's probably a fit where it doesn't work, but he works most places just fine.

he won't work if you don't have post defense or shot blocking behind him.

For the most part being a good NBA team won't work if you don't have those things and you usually get them from the 5. There are a couple exceptions, but not a whole ton.

clyde21 · Post #36 » by **clyde21** » Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:12 am

eminence wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
eminence wrote:
Ehh, kinda not really imo. Like there's probably a fit where it doesn't work, but he works most places just fine.

he won't work if you don't have post defense or shot blocking behind him.

For the most part being a good NBA team won't work if you don't have those things and you usually get them from the 5. There are a couple exceptions, but not a whole ton.

well, depends...Draymond can play with smaller or mobile Centers because he can defend the post/rim for instance, but guys like Crowder and Grant just can't make that difference up on the defensive end.

in Grant's case, if he's not stretching the floor, defending the rim, or acting as a secondary ball-handler (a la Draymond), it's hard to find a lot of good fits for him.

eminence · Post #37 » by **eminence** » Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:21 am

clyde21 wrote:
eminence wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
he won't work if you don't have post defense or shot blocking behind him.

For the most part being a good NBA team won't work if you don't have those things and you usually get them from the 5. There are a couple exceptions, but not a whole ton.

well, depends...Draymond can play with smaller or mobile Centers because he can defend the post/rim for instance, but guys like Crowder and Grant just can't make that difference up on the defensive end.

in Grant's case, if he's not stretching the floor, defending the rim, or acting as a secondary ball-handler (a la Draymond), it's hard to find a lot of good fits for him.

Guess it's on what you're looking for, certainly won't be getting Draymond. I think he can do enough of all those things that you can feel pretty good about getting a starter level player (Thad Young as a bit of a parallel).

clyde21 · Post #38 » by **clyde21** » Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:25 am

eminence wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
eminence wrote:
For the most part being a good NBA team won't work if you don't have those things and you usually get them from the 5. There are a couple exceptions, but not a whole ton.

well, depends...Draymond can play with smaller or mobile Centers because he can defend the post/rim for instance, but guys like Crowder and Grant just can't make that difference up on the defensive end.

in Grant's case, if he's not stretching the floor, defending the rim, or acting as a secondary ball-handler (a la Draymond), it's hard to find a lot of good fits for him.

Guess it's on what you're looking for, certainly won't be getting Draymond. I think he can do enough of all those things that you can feel pretty good about getting a starter level player (Thad Young as a bit of a parallel).

well yea, i'm not expecting a Draymond. I just think that if you're gonna be an 'undersized' 4, you need to do one of the above (perferably multiple) at a pretty high level.

EvanZ · Post #39 » by **EvanZ** » Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:08 pm

Coeur wrote:Grant Williams - can’t figure out if he’s being listed as a participation award? How would he fit in the NBA? I think Robert Franks is a way better pro prospect

Stand up sir. That is quite a take, even for RealGM. :lol:

Catchall · Post #40 » by **Catchall** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:44 am

King Ken wrote:I am not sold on THT. He plays flat footed, top heavy, even if he is P.J. Tucker like, that's not worth no damn top 15 pick. I don't know why scouts are so high on him. Maybe it's his court vision. I like him as a prospect but I don't see what some see calling him top 5.

To me, THT's role looks to be similar to Lance Stephenson, a point-forward with some burst and some handle and wiggle. So it depends on whether you like that type of player. He's an interesting player when he plays on the ball, but if he's a wing, he doesn't really stand out.

If THT could lose 10 - 15 lbs, he's got enough of a skill base to develop as a bruising point guard in the mold of a Baron Davis or Deron Williams, but he'd need to expand his PG skills and focus on initiating offense. I believe in him more than I believe in Lu Dort right now.