RealGM post combine big board - #17

[clyde21]

1. Zion Williamson, PF, Duke
2. Ja Morant, PG, Murray St.
3. R.J. Barrett, SF, Duke
4. Jarrett Culver, SG/SF, Texas Tech
5. Darius Garland, PG, Vanderbilt
6. De'Andre Hunter, SF, Virginia
7. Coby White, PG/SG, North Carolina
8. Cameron Reddish, SF, Duke
9. Sekou Doumbouya, PF, Limoges
10. Goga Bitadze, C, Mega Bemax
11. Brandon Clarke, PF/C, Gonzaga
12. Jaxson Hayes, C, Texas
13. Bol Bol, C, Oregon
14. Rui Hachimura, SF/PF, Gonzaga
15. Nassir Little, SF, North Carolina
16. Romeo Langford, SG, Indiana
17.

[clyde21]

added Jaylen Nowell to the poll, Stillwater you should probably make you case for why he should be considered here

[Stillwater]

added Jaylen Nowell to the poll, Stillwater you should probably make you case for why he should be considered here

I voted KPJ add Kabengele
well this entire board is a little off for my taste. I mean KPJ should have been ranked higher already along with THT at least over Langford and Rui imo.

Nowell showcased elite offensive tools in the PAC winning pac 12 poy putting up solid scoring numbers and is an excellent rebounder.
He wasn't quite at the 50/40/90 club but was very close at 50/44/78 , he needs to improve a lot on defense as the 2.2 steals per game was probably a direct result of the zone and he hasn't had the defensive coaching he needs yet/it showed as he struggled defensively at the combine. Overall his passing ability is underrated and should be a easy shoe in to be a 6th man type on any team once he gets his chops defensively. He also has burst and can play above the rim some off 1 foot or 2 with decent size for a combo guard etc.

[GimmeDat]

THT.

I'm not sure why you would take NAW over THT or even KPJ,s far as SG's go. He had a very good college season but don't see the tools to translate nearly as well as those 2 other guys.

[NotACat]

THT.

I'm not sure why you would take NAW over THT or even KPJ,s far as SG's go. He had a very good college season but don't see the tools to translate nearly as well as those 2 other guys.

What do you like about THT and KPJ that puts them over the top for you?

[GimmeDat]

THT.

I'm not sure why you would take NAW over THT or even KPJ,s far as SG's go. He had a very good college season but don't see the tools to translate nearly as well as those 2 other guys.

What do you like about THT and KPJ that puts them over the top for you?

For THT, for one, I think he has a really unique combination of elite length, shiftiness, and that mobility despite the pudgey frame that he uses to bully people. He's an excellent finisher at the rim, and can pass and handle. His shot is the main offensive question mark but I don't mind the form and he's flashed some impressive OTD shot-making. Defensively he's great and positionally versatile. He's super young so I think there's a ton of room for growth, in particular if he can manage to refine his body type.

KPJ just has top notch tools, I think the star potential is pretty easy to see. Dynamic athlete, flashes of elite self-creation, tools for both ends, big frame, etc. The only real concerns there are the IQ/attitude ones.. if he had a smooth freshman year and made the most of his talents he could've been a top 5 pick in this class.

NAW is a solid, well-rounded player but I don't see anything particularly stand-out about his skill-set, and his athleticism/frame, to me, seem pretty average. I think he can be a very good 3rd guard or role playing starter but I don't see a high upside outcome as likely as with the former two.

[Roddy B for 3]

THT.

I'm not sure why you would take NAW over THT or even KPJ,s far as SG's go. He had a very good college season but don't see the tools to translate nearly as well as those 2 other guys.

What do you like about THT and KPJ that puts them over the top for you?

For THT, for one, I think he has a really unique combination of elite length, shiftiness, and that mobility despite the pudgey frame that he uses to bully people. He's an excellent finisher at the rim, and can pass and handle. His shot is the main offensive question mark but I don't mind the form and he's flashed some impressive OTD shot-making. Defensively he's great and positionally versatile. He's super young so I think there's a ton of room for growth, in particular if he can manage to refine his body type.

KPJ just has top notch tools, I think the star potential is pretty easy to see. Dynamic athlete, flashes of elite self-creation, tools for both ends, big frame, etc. The only real concerns there are the IQ/attitude ones.. if he had a smooth freshman year and made the most of his talents he could've been a top 5 pick in this class.

NAW is a solid, well-rounded player but I don't see anything particularly stand-out about his skill-set, and his athleticism/frame, to me, seem pretty average. I think he can be a very good 3rd guard or role playing starter but I don't see a high upside outcome as likely as with the former two.

If you look at redrafts most role playing starters are worthy of picks 8-18

[GimmeDat]

What do you like about THT and KPJ that puts them over the top for you?

For THT, for one, I think he has a really unique combination of elite length, shiftiness, and that mobility despite the pudgey frame that he uses to bully people. He's an excellent finisher at the rim, and can pass and handle. His shot is the main offensive question mark but I don't mind the form and he's flashed some impressive OTD shot-making. Defensively he's great and positionally versatile. He's super young so I think there's a ton of room for growth, in particular if he can manage to refine his body type.

KPJ just has top notch tools, I think the star potential is pretty easy to see. Dynamic athlete, flashes of elite self-creation, tools for both ends, big frame, etc. The only real concerns there are the IQ/attitude ones.. if he had a smooth freshman year and made the most of his talents he could've been a top 5 pick in this class.

NAW is a solid, well-rounded player but I don't see anything particularly stand-out about his skill-set, and his athleticism/frame, to me, seem pretty average. I think he can be a very good 3rd guard or role playing starter but I don't see a high upside outcome as likely as with the former two.

If you look at redrafts most role playing starters are worthy of picks 8-18

True, but that doesn't mean the chance at ending up with an fringe-All Star or greater player isn't exponentially more valuable than a role player.

And I also don't think it's a massive risk-reward tradeoff in this scenario either - both guys have fine median outcomes imo and I think NAW is far from a lock to be an effective role player, and could just be a dime a dozen rotation piece.

[Roddy B for 3]

For THT, for one, I think he has a really unique combination of elite length, shiftiness, and that mobility despite the pudgey frame that he uses to bully people. He's an excellent finisher at the rim, and can pass and handle. His shot is the main offensive question mark but I don't mind the form and he's flashed some impressive OTD shot-making. Defensively he's great and positionally versatile. He's super young so I think there's a ton of room for growth, in particular if he can manage to refine his body type.

KPJ just has top notch tools, I think the star potential is pretty easy to see. Dynamic athlete, flashes of elite self-creation, tools for both ends, big frame, etc. The only real concerns there are the IQ/attitude ones.. if he had a smooth freshman year and made the most of his talents he could've been a top 5 pick in this class.

NAW is a solid, well-rounded player but I don't see anything particularly stand-out about his skill-set, and his athleticism/frame, to me, seem pretty average. I think he can be a very good 3rd guard or role playing starter but I don't see a high upside outcome as likely as with the former two.

If you look at redrafts most role playing starters are worthy of picks 8-18

True, but that doesn't mean the chance at ending up with an fringe-All Star or greater player isn't exponentially more valuable than a role player.

And I also don't think it's a massive risk-reward tradeoff in this scenario either - both guys have fine median outcomes imo and I think NAW is far from a lock to be an effective role player, and could just be a dime a dozen rotation piece.

THT is 4 inches shorter than NAW with 4 inches more wingspan. NAW is a much better shooter. THT is much heavier.

They both seem like good secondary ball handlers.

Why is THT a candidate for the #7 pick in your eyes but NAW might just be another "fine a dozen role player"?

I feel like THT is being overrated due to his uniqueness, not his ability to play basketball.

AND even the uniqunes isn't THAT special.

A lot of 2 guards in the NBA have 6'9"+ wingspan. Is 4" of wingspan going to make a player a superstar compared to a role player?

Is their 1 NBA role player you think would be a star with 4" more wingspan?

[GimmeDat]

If you look at redrafts most role playing starters are worthy of picks 8-18

True, but that doesn't mean the chance at ending up with an fringe-All Star or greater player isn't exponentially more valuable than a role player.

And I also don't think it's a massive risk-reward tradeoff in this scenario either - both guys have fine median outcomes imo and I think NAW is far from a lock to be an effective role player, and could just be a dime a dozen rotation piece.

THT is 4 inches shorter than NAW with 4 inches more wingspan. NAW is a much better shooter. THT is much heavier.

They both seem like good secondary ball handlers.

Why is THT a candidate for the #7 pick in your eyes but NAW might just be another "fine a dozen role player"?

I feel like THT is being overrated due to his uniqueness, not his ability to play basketball.

AND even the uniqunes isn't THAT special.

A lot of 2 guards in the NBA have 6'9"+ wingspan. Is 4" of wingspan going to make a player a superstar compared to a role player?

Is their 1 NBA role player you think would be a star with 4" more wingspan?

4 inches shorter with 4 inches more wingspan is a massive disparity. I'll take the smaller/longer prospect every day of the week as it pertains to the impact on their athletic profile. I feel like THT is more shifty with his combination of athleticism/handle and his weight I find is largely a bonus, as he bullies with his frame and he's still got a quick step with it. Perhaps he loses weight and gains even more quickness/explosion as well.

By comparison NAW is of a slender frame, is a mediocre athlete, and his dimensions are by no means bad (6'5 w/ 6'9 wingspan is about as archetypal as you can hope for) but not as freakish as THT's. So for that I think there's cumulatively quite a difference in their athletic/physical intrigue. In particular I think there's a considerable difference in their defensive upside.

As for an NBA player that would be a star with more length? That's pretty hard to say. Certainly a lot of smaller guards, like Lillard, CJ, Murray, Kemba, etc. would turn into more 2-way stars with longer wingspans that would help compensate for their physical limitations guarding opposing guards. Obviously on the offensive end these guys have absolute elite skill-sets and that sort of stuff can translate in spite of a degree of physical limitation, but NAW is far from that.

Guys like Griffin or Love with +4 wingspan would also gain lots of defensive value and be able to bump up to the 5 more effectively, if not full time.

By all means, NAW probably has a higher absolute floor because of a consolidated skill foundation, but I think THT has shown more unique abilities on offense that hint at higher potential (on top of his special physical profile), so long as his fundamental skills continue to progress.

[Wizop]

I voted other because I think Brooklyn will want a big and you don't have them listed. Fernando? Bitadze? Gafford? perhaps I could have voted Claxton.

in any event, I love the way this is playing out for my Pacers at 18 as I want a wing.

[Roddy B for 3]

True, but that doesn't mean the chance at ending up with an fringe-All Star or greater player isn't exponentially more valuable than a role player.

And I also don't think it's a massive risk-reward tradeoff in this scenario either - both guys have fine median outcomes imo and I think NAW is far from a lock to be an effective role player, and could just be a dime a dozen rotation piece.

THT is 4 inches shorter than NAW with 4 inches more wingspan. NAW is a much better shooter. THT is much heavier.

They both seem like good secondary ball handlers.

Why is THT a candidate for the #7 pick in your eyes but NAW might just be another "fine a dozen role player"?

I feel like THT is being overrated due to his uniqueness, not his ability to play basketball.

AND even the uniqunes isn't THAT special.

A lot of 2 guards in the NBA have 6'9"+ wingspan. Is 4" of wingspan going to make a player a superstar compared to a role player?

Is their 1 NBA role player you think would be a star with 4" more wingspan?

4 inches shorter with 4 inches more wingspan is a massive disparity. I'll take the smaller/longer prospect every day of the week as it pertains to the impact on their athletic profile. I feel like THT is more shifty with his combination of athleticism/handle and his weight I find is largely a bonus, as he bullies with his frame and he's still got a quick step with it. Perhaps he loses weight and gains even more quickness/explosion as well.

By comparison NAW is of a slender frame, is a mediocre athlete, and his dimensions are by no means bad (6'5 w/ 6'9 wingspan is about as archetypal as you can hope for) but not as freakish as THT's. So for that I think there's cumulatively quite a difference in their athletic/physical intrigue. In particular I think there's a considerable difference in their defensive upside.

As for an NBA player that would be a star with more length? That's pretty hard to say. Certainly a lot of smaller guards, like Lillard, CJ, Murray, Kemba, etc. would turn into more 2-way stars with longer wingspans that would help compensate for their physical limitations guarding opposing guards. Obviously on the offensive end these guys have absolute elite skill-sets and that sort of stuff can translate in spite of a degree of physical limitation, but NAW is far from that.

Guys like Griffin or Love with +4 wingspan would also gain lots of defensive value and be able to bump up to the 5 more effectively, if not full time.

By all means, NAW probably has a higher absolute floor because of a consolidated skill foundation, but I think THT has shown more unique abilities on offense that hint at higher potential (on top of his special physical profile), so long as his fundamental skills continue to progress.

I may be underestimating wingspans importance.
Having a low center of gravity to be able to body bigger players while having long arms to contest their shot probably is more important than I've been thinking.

That being said I feel it's a little disingenuous to name Ayers who would be better with 4" more wingspan who are already stars.

Those names you listed probably hammer home my point more than yours as they are stars despite not having exceddenlly long arms.

Who's a player with as small amount of skill as THT who became a star?

THT may well become a high level NBA starter, but I would say there's less than 1/4 players who have rare physical gifts but are not as skilled as their draft peers that still out preform their draft peers.

I would say the players percieved mental makeup/personatiy traits/etc. Is more indicative of a players success than 4" more wingspan.

I don't think I got my point through as coherently as I would have liked to, but I want to reiterate that I think you were being disingenuous when you listed off star players names after I said "who would be a star with 4" more wingspan". Although technically you were not wrong (of course Blake Griffin would be a star with 4" more wingspan, he is already a star though).

So now I'll ask you, which palyer do you think would be a star with 4" more wingspan?

As I ask that question the first name that comes to mind for me is Marcus Smart.

So if you think THT can be a better defensive version of Marcus Smart I get why your so high on him (you do like wingspan for defensive purposes primarily correct?)

[Wizop]

are you guys ever going to move on to the Pacers pick?

[Coeur]

1. Zion Williamson, PF, Duke
2. Ja Morant, PG, Murray St.
3. R.J. Barrett, SF, Duke
4. Jarrett Culver, SG/SF, Texas Tech
5. Darius Garland, PG, Vanderbilt
6. De'Andre Hunter, SF, Virginia
7. Coby White, PG/SG, North Carolina
8. Cameron Reddish, SF, Duke
9. Sekou Doumbouya, PF, Limoges
10. Goga Bitadze, C, Mega Bemax
11. Brandon Clarke, PF/C, Gonzaga
12. Jaxson Hayes, C, Texas
13. Bol Bol, C, Oregon
14. Rui Hachimura, SF/PF, Gonzaga
15. Nassir Little, SF, North Carolina
16. Romeo Langford, SG, Indiana
17.

I’m convinced this is a good draft and will produce way more than usual nba players that last a few years or more

-Still have 9 guys on your next list
-high floor CarsenE, kab, Thybulle
-lottery talent KZ/King/camJ/Dort
-??Claxton, mcdaniels, ???
-still more sg’s Oni/Norvell
-Samanic and some we aren’t on?

I feel like we each have 10 more.


There are going to be a handful of undrafted guys that get minutes next season
-