I Heart Okongwu

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Re: I Heart Okongwu 

Post#101 » by Stillwater » Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:10 pm

how much of a playmaker was Adebayo as a rookie? how about his 2nd season? was he ever responsible for bringing the ball up the court on a consistent basis?
I think some of you have a conveniently distorted memory as if anomalies of his game were commonplace early on.

O is just as mobile as Adebayo was at the same age , just as capable of an on ball defender and fluid without the ball athletically.
O is also a much higher bbiq prospect at the same age despite not having the same exact max vert or ws.
even if you want to suggest Adebayo had some elite handle back then it was passable and good for a big but
not at all indicative of some future all star caliber player.
I think the hinge on if O becomes worth taking in the top 3 is if said org thinks he will be able to transfer his defense and improve as a shooter. if not then why pick him until 10...He is a top 6 pick imo falling somewhere on upside between elite defender with paint ltd offense and fringe 2nd team all nba 2-way player that expands his offense to include those off the dribble shots he made with ease in HS.
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Re: I Heart Okongwu 

Post#102 » by HotelVitale » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:36 pm

Ruzious wrote:I think it's fair to say Bam's more of a physical freak, while O is a better rim protector - regardless of measurements. If anyone thought Bam would become the offensive force he's become, kudos to them. I certainly didn't.


Yup, great mystery of the draft process--why can some players not just develop new mental and physical skills but actually DO them exactly right in the tiny gaps of space and with the super tight timing that the NBA game requires you to be successful in. E.g. Bam had some kind of general outlines of a nice driving/passing game but he had a lot fewer signs of that than many players who don't end up being legit at that in the NBA. Just gotta take hats off to him for having that weird NBA adaptability superpower (and dudes like Siakam, Kawhi, etc).

I feel like a lot of draft talk (mine included) at the end of the day is 'X strength gets me really excited! so I'm not as worried about Y concern, which is real but I just have faith.' And the actual experience of draft success/failure is watching as the player maybe follows 50% of the trajectory you expected and then either develops/adapts in good ways to the NBA game or doesn't quite do enough of that to hang around as one of the best 400 or so players in the world. And then of course watching a bunch of dudes on the general board laugh and say 'how did this idiot GM not know that Y was real and X was a smokescreen?! LOL dis franchise a disgrace.'
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Re: I Heart Okongwu 

Post#103 » by Village Idiot » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:39 pm

Ruzious wrote:I think it's fair to say Bam's more of a physical freak, while O is a better rim protector - regardless of measurements. If anyone thought Bam would become the offensive force he's become, kudos to them. I certainly didn't.
I am seldom right but I was actually surprised Bam didn't get more attention in 2017 so I'll toot my horn here :lol:

I posted this on the T-Wolves boardregarding the #7 pick. I also had him at#7 in my mock draft on Realgm and 3rd on my big board after Fultz :banghead: and Tatum :nod:
I'm surprised Bam Adebayo isn't a guy you're discussing. He's strong enough to defend the post but quick enough to switch onto guards. Good help side shot blocker with much better awareness and anticipation than Dieng. He's a good shooter and ball handler but didn't get to show it in Lexington
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Re: I Heart Okongwu 

Post#104 » by getrichordie » Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:17 pm

Village Idiot wrote:
Ruzious wrote:I think it's fair to say Bam's more of a physical freak, while O is a better rim protector - regardless of measurements. If anyone thought Bam would become the offensive force he's become, kudos to them. I certainly didn't.
I am seldom right but I was actually surprised Bam didn't get more attention in 2017 so I'll toot my horn here :lol:

I posted this on the T-Wolves boardregarding the #7 pick. I also had him at#7 in my mock draft on Realgm and 3rd on my big board after Fultz :banghead: and Tatum :nod:
I'm surprised Bam Adebayo isn't a guy you're discussing. He's strong enough to defend the post but quick enough to switch onto guards. Good help side shot blocker with much better awareness and anticipation than Dieng. He's a good shooter and ball handler but didn't get to show it in Lexington


That reply and the comments thereafter are a perfect example of why you should never put any stock into some site's "projections."
:basketball: 2020 BIG BOARD (updated 10/23/20)
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Re: I Heart Okongwu 

Post#105 » by Klomp » Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:14 pm

While it's possible Okongwu could become the second-coming of Bam Adebayo, Dikembe Mutombo and Bill Russell all rolled in one, I personally fear the other side of the spectrum that he could be the next Bismack Biyombo or Nerlens Noel.
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Re: I Heart Okongwu 

Post#106 » by getrichordie » Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:05 pm

FWIW, there's a small group of people on twitter who think Achiuwa is the guy that should be drawing Adebayo comparisons, not Okongwu.
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Re: I Heart Okongwu 

Post#107 » by Klomp » Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:54 pm

getrichordie wrote:FWIW, there's a small group of people on twitter who think Achiuwa is the guy that should be drawing Adebayo comparisons, not Okongwu.

I know personally I would rather have Achiuwa over Okongwu for what Minnesota asks of its PFs.
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Re: I Heart Okongwu 

Post#108 » by Onus » Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:42 pm

Klomp wrote:
getrichordie wrote:FWIW, there's a small group of people on twitter who think Achiuwa is the guy that should be drawing Adebayo comparisons, not Okongwu.

I know personally I would rather have Achiuwa over Okongwu for what Minnesota asks of its PFs.

Achiuwa might be the most versatile defender in the draft.
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Re: I Heart Okongwu 

Post#109 » by clyde21 » Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:50 pm

Klomp wrote:
getrichordie wrote:FWIW, there's a small group of people on twitter who think Achiuwa is the guy that should be drawing Adebayo comparisons, not Okongwu.

I know personally I would rather have Achiuwa over Okongwu for what Minnesota asks of its PFs.


highly disagree my man, Onyeka is such a good fit next to Kat

also Achiuwa is not much of a rim/paint defender tbh.
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Re: I Heart Okongwu 

Post#110 » by Klomp » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:22 pm

clyde21 wrote:highly disagree my man, Onyeka is such a good fit next to Kat

In an old-school system maybe. But the Minnesota defensive system requires switching 1-4. Whoever plays that spot will be defending perimeter players on practically every possession. To me, that's not going to be Onyeka's strength. A few possessions here and there he'd be fine, but I don't think his perimeter defense would hold up with that volume.
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Re: I Heart Okongwu 

Post#111 » by Justwar » Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:05 am

Stillwater wrote:how much of a playmaker was Adebayo as a rookie? how about his 2nd season? was he ever responsible for bringing the ball up the court on a consistent basis?
I think some of you have a conveniently distorted memory as if anomalies of his game were commonplace early on.

O is just as mobile as Adebayo was at the same age , just as capable of an on ball defender and fluid without the ball athletically.
O is also a much higher bbiq prospect at the same age despite not having the same exact max vert or ws.
even if you want to suggest Adebayo had some elite handle back then it was passable and good for a big but
not at all indicative of some future all star caliber player.
I think the hinge on if O becomes worth taking in the top 3 is if said org thinks he will be able to transfer his defense and improve as a shooter. if not then why pick him until 10...He is a top 6 pick imo falling somewhere on upside between elite defender with paint ltd offense and fringe 2nd team all nba 2-way player that expands his offense to include those off the dribble shots he made with ease in HS.


What made bam low iq? In hs he showed his ball handling, but at uk his role was improving as a defender which as you can see helped. He developed in the post at Kentucky too. He was really just a transition guy or driver in hs. Developed all around.
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Re: I Heart Okongwu 

Post#112 » by KGdaBom » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:34 pm

King Ken wrote:
Marcus wrote:
CP War Hawks wrote:His listed height is a concern, but he seems to play much bigger. Seems to excel as a help defender and if he shows the ability to guard the perimeter I'd expect him to be a top ten pick.


that developed as a blessing in disguise being the back line for that Chino Hills press. Kid was absolutely fantastic as the last line of defense usually stopping drives, passes, and blocking shots whilst more times than not being outnumbered once the trap broke down.

He defends in space well too. That's more important for the modern NBA. To be honest, he is everything you want in a modern 5 outside of the shooting and you would prefer if he had more height but his bulk and body is very good.

I see him as a 4 not a 5. He's plenty big and can guard inside and out.
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Re: I Heart Okongwu 

Post#113 » by KGdaBom » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:46 pm

Klomp wrote:
getrichordie wrote:FWIW, there's a small group of people on twitter who think Achiuwa is the guy that should be drawing Adebayo comparisons, not Okongwu.

I know personally I would rather have Achiuwa over Okongwu for what Minnesota asks of its PFs.

You have your right to be wrong :lol: :lol:
Just messing with you. We're drafting Wiseman anyway.
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Re: I Heart Okongwu 

Post#114 » by KGdaBom » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:47 pm

clyde21 wrote:
Klomp wrote:
getrichordie wrote:FWIW, there's a small group of people on twitter who think Achiuwa is the guy that should be drawing Adebayo comparisons, not Okongwu.

I know personally I would rather have Achiuwa over Okongwu for what Minnesota asks of its PFs.


highly disagree my man, Onyeka is such a good fit next to Kat

also Achiuwa is not much of a rim/paint defender tbh.

Klomp is hung up on 3 point shooting and for some reason doesn't think OO can defend the perimeter.
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Re: I Heart Okongwu 

Post#115 » by prime1time » Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:19 pm

getrichordie wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:
getrichordie wrote:Okongwu and Adebayo comps need to end. Other than height, where are they similar?


This is a useful tool available over on Tankathon that compares the two players in their respective final years of college.

Okongwu compares favorably in efficiency, production and advanced stats.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=onyeka-okongwu--bam-adebayo


What makes Bam, Bam, is his outlier lateral agility and passing ability combined with outlier athleticism and fluidity. Adebayo can play the 4/5. Okongwu does not project to be a 4/5. Just a 5. Maybe 10 years ago, that'd be different, but not today.

Did you know what Bam was going to become when he was drafted? Just because Bam exceeded expectations doesn't mean the comparison isn't valid. Look at Bam's college stats and tell me why the comparison needs to end...
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Re: I Heart Okongwu 

Post#116 » by Fischella » Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:23 pm

Well if Okongwu is what Adebayo was projected to be after college he would barely be a 1st round talent
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Re: I Heart Okongwu 

Post#117 » by prime1time » Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:24 pm

Looking at Adebayo's college stats, the comparison is not just fair, it bodes well for Okongwu. Funny to see people explain that Bam is so much better than Okongwu. Where was all of this great passing ability in college? It might not be the perfect comparison, but it's better than most others we can throw out.
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Re: I Heart Okongwu 

Post#118 » by prime1time » Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:25 pm

Fischella wrote:Well if Okongwu is what Adebayo was projected to be after college he would barely be a 1st round talent

How should we account for the fact that projections are often wrong?
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Re: I Heart Okongwu 

Post#119 » by Fischella » Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:32 pm

prime1time wrote:
Fischella wrote:Well if Okongwu is what Adebayo was projected to be after college he would barely be a 1st round talent

How should we account for the fact that projections are often wrong?

You are using college stats for projections, I am just saying, Bam's evolution post college makes no sense if you are projecting based on his college numbers
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Re: I Heart Okongwu 

Post#120 » by prime1time » Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:30 pm

Fischella wrote:
prime1time wrote:
Fischella wrote:Well if Okongwu is what Adebayo was projected to be after college he would barely be a 1st round talent

How should we account for the fact that projections are often wrong?

You are using college stats for projections, I am just saying, Bam's evolution post college makes no sense if you are projecting based on his college numbers

That's a half true. I'm using college stats to look for comparisons. Add in the fact that they have similar sizes, okay similar positions and will be asked to do similar things. Also, Bam as a 3rd year player in the NBA was surprising. But his first and second years? It's out of the realm of expectation that Okongwu could do that? The only thing I don't see Okongwu being able to replicate is the 5 assists a game which is perfectly fine. A big man that can pass is a treat.

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