2020 NBA Draft II

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1301 » by nolang1 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:43 pm

mademan wrote:
nolang1 wrote:
mademan wrote:Can someone explain McDaniels drop in all these mocks? Does he have attitude issues? Cause what he's working with (young, big, tall, long, defensive versatility, decent jumpshot and pretty amazing handles for his size) should make him easy lotto, no? I get that his athleticism isnt really functional on the offensive end, but his elite 3+D potential should still give him lotto looks.


The amazing handles manifested as 2.1 assists and 3.2 turnovers per game, and I’d say his defensive versatility is similarly theoretical since he’s not strong enough to bang inside and played in a zone defense all year. He definitely doesn’t have that KD or even Brandon Ingram type of length that his fans tend to assume just because he’s tall and skinny, and the players with his height and length that tend to succeed are closer to being 3-point specialists than just having a kinda decent jump shot.


Sure. He was also inefficient in college. But he's 19 and has a physical profile and skillset that is not only fairly unique, but also highly coveted. He has PF size with decent guard skills. Even if theyre not refined, i would think most teams would look at him and think they can develop him into a star. I cant see him falling out of the lotto


He doesn’t really have PF size in terms of being too skinny (and like in a way that goes beyond “oh he’s young and will put on some muscle as he matures”), and I guess my personal bar for ‘decent guards skills’ is higher since he’s basically an average three-point shooter for the college level and wasn’t particularly good at creating for himself and others.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1302 » by doordoor123 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:02 pm

Honestly if you’re a big coming into the draft (PF or C), you need to be really good. Every year bigs slide out of the NBA. PF is the second strongest position because SFs have been stealing their jobs. And Cs are slowly getting their jobs cut. You need to be really good at those positions to get minutes or have really high upside with a high floor. Rebounders who cant shoot and aren’t big strong centers don’t exist anymore. Kyle O’Quinns and Amir Johnsons are fading away. I think Xavier Tillman is making the right choice.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1303 » by getrichordie » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:50 am

FINALLY got access to Synergy. If there's something you'd like to see, just let me know! There's tons of data.

One thing that I really wanted to see is Bane's defensive synergy stats because I've long felt he is overrated as a defender (66th percentile overall defender)

Some quick notes:

— 38th percentile defender on ball-handlers (BH) in P&R situations (24.4% frequency)
— more specifically, Bane is a 35th percentile defender when ball-handler dribbles off pick (87.7% frequency)
— 39th percentile when BH takes it to the basket
— 51th percentile when defending spot-ups (34.7% frequency)
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1304 » by Klomp » Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:37 am

Why have I not heard of this kid before?

Read on Twitter
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1305 » by MotownMadness » Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:49 am

Klomp wrote:Why have I not heard of this kid before?

Read on Twitter

Supposed to be in the 21 draft class
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1306 » by Fischella » Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:08 am

Cause he is bad bad
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1307 » by WargamesX » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:22 pm

Fischella wrote:Cause he is bad bad


I think he’s drafted as a late first rounder.

Both the Lakers and Celtics are in a position where they can put him into the G league for a whole year to develop. Other teams might just like his upside and take him late too.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1308 » by getrichordie » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:44 pm

WargamesX wrote:
Fischella wrote:Cause he is bad bad


I think he’s drafted as a late first rounder.

Both the Lakers and Celtics are in a position where they can put him into the G league for a whole year to develop. Other teams might just like his upside and take him late too.


I don't see that being in the realm of possibility. Mane is young, yes, and has great tools, but he hasn't shown a whole lot and there are major questions about his feel for the game.

He will get drafted late 2nd at best.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1309 » by Fischella » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:59 pm

Mane isn't even young he is already 20 and he is bad
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1310 » by Stillwater » Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:25 pm

WargamesX wrote:
Fischella wrote:Cause he is bad bad


I think he’s drafted as a late first rounder.

Both the Lakers and Celtics are in a position where they can put him into the G league for a whole year to develop. Other teams might just like his upside and take him late too.

He isn't a first rounder imo... I'd say he doesn't garner as much attn as Lecque did who had a lot of positive hype but went UDFA
I might give him a chance if this draft didnt have so many guards. He has good size and length for the position but isn't an elite passer or anything nor does he bring an elite shooters game to the table so I think he is a late 2nd rounder at best, barring some late sizzle buzz via a combine invite or something where he proves something else was missed.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1311 » by Catchall » Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:07 pm

Mane is a 5th year HS senior, now considered a 5-star recruit who would have been going to NC State. A team may have promised him in the 2nd round or promised to pick him up as a FA.



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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1312 » by clyde21 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:49 pm

Isaiah Livers withdrawing from the draft, going back to Michigan
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1313 » by Stillwater » Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:19 pm

^ Yeah not surprising imo. needs some work
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1314 » by Stillwater » Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:25 pm

Catchall wrote:Mane is a 5th year HS senior, now considered a 5-star recruit who would have been going to NC State. A team may have promised him in the 2nd round or promised to pick him up as a FA.



;t=1s

Mane was considering Alabama, DePaul, Marquette, Michigan State and Pittsburgh before opting to stay in the draft.
He has left a lot unproven and to get drafted would be surprising unless the latter half of the 2nd is just that bad for guards.
Seems unlikely more proven guards wont be available given the depth of them in this draft.
I could see somebody stashing him if they beleive in his upside as an intl prospect thats about it.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1315 » by getrichordie » Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:04 am

Jahmi'us Ramsey

DRIBBLING

Good and competent ball-handler though not a guy you want handling the ball for an extended period of time. Has flashed some advanced stuff like cross-overs, hesitations, and even behind-the-back dribbles. Left hand is pretty solid. Could stand to tighten up his handle a bit.

PASSING

Really solid passer and willing one, too. Has flashed an array of passes on the move, showing some creativity when pressured. Not a ball-stopper -- if he doesn't see good opportunity, will swing ball quickly. Uses long arms to whip passes around the court when opportunity presents itself. Can effectively rocket passes into shooting pocket. Does a good job of finding open guy on perimeter. Has flashed ability to find his big man in paint or a baseline cutter when driving with wrap-arounds. Likes to drive into top of key, get his feet set and find his guys on the perimeter/coming off screens. Doesn't see corners very well, but could be due to mask interfering with peripheral vision.

SHOOTING

Shot selection could improve, but not bad; likes to step inside 3-pt line and take long 2s at times. Should be attacking rim more often, but sometimes settles for mid-range Js. Takes shots within the flow of the offense for the most part. Really good spot-up/C&S shooter when feet are set -- virtually textbook jumper (84th percentile on spot-up, no-dribble Js; 91st percentile on C&S). Has flashed ability to hit OTD step-back Js.

Pretty and fluid shooting form coming off screens and/or pulling up but efficiency isn't there yet, but enough to reasonably assume it will improve with reps. Better with his feet set in C&S sitches. Dips the ball down pretty far on C&S 3s (below waist line). Release point is nice and high. Could stand to speed up his release a bit, but it's not slow. Has quite a bit of gravity. Defenders are pretty much only 2-3 feet away almost always. Has shown ability to knock down shots from NBA range.

Touch around the rim isn't great as of current, but has flashed enough finishing ability to be optimistic for future improvement. Has shown he can finish through contact at times. Can play above the rim at times when he has room to load up.

MISC

Has flashed ability to euro-step as well as the willingness to attempt behind-the-back dribbles when driving. Shows willingness and instinct for cutting, reads when man is sleeping on him. Pretty awesome ISO player (84th percentile in ISO-derived offense + 88th percentile in own ISO offense) due to gravity from pull-up 3 and threat of going to rim.

DEFENSE

Somewhat raw on defensive end. Makes head-scratching decisions at times, though not very often. Shows good understanding of angles; does a good job of keeping arms up to cut off potential passes. Gets caught ball-watching at times and loses sense of where man is.

When switched on to bigs in P&Rs, does a good job fronting and discouraging entry passes. Isn't easy to push around due to strength.

Solid defensive awareness. Understands what is happening around him and when he needs to help, though is prone to over-helping on occasion. Rotates well on the perimeter and interior for the most part. Needs to work on footwork -- prone to crossing feet.

Overall decision-making is not bad, but needs to improve in order to unlock full defensive potential. Sometimes takes less-than-ideal angles, instead of backpedaling to keep BH in front. Overall, does a solid job of staying in front of guys and discouraging anything real from happening in ISO situations. Can find himself caught in ""no man's land"" at time with poor positioning off-ball at times.

Has flashed capability of stopping attacking BH in transition while backpedaling and keeping arms up. Capable of using long arms to play passing lanes; does read passes before they happen.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1316 » by babyjax13 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:03 am

Mane reminds me of Mudiay. Looks athletic and impressive against high school athletes, but I don't think he is going to be an above average NBA athlete in terms of speed and explosiveness (but perhaps strength, as he fills out). He also appears to have a loose handle (but I think he can tighten it up) and I don't see impressive court vision. Jumper looks okay, but sometimes seems a bit slow. He doesn't look like someone who can run an offense right now, but maybe someone who can exploit a bent defense with a decent jumper, the ability to drive hard and finish with contact, and make basic reads and smart passes.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1317 » by doordoor123 » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:27 pm

babyjax13 wrote:Mane reminds me of Mudiay. Looks athletic and impressive against high school athletes, but I don't think he is going to be an above average NBA athlete in terms of speed and explosiveness (but perhaps strength, as he fills out). He also appears to have a loose handle (but I think he can tighten it up) and I don't see impressive court vision. Jumper looks okay, but sometimes seems a bit slow. He doesn't look like someone who can run an offense right now, but maybe someone who can exploit a bent defense with a decent jumper, the ability to drive hard and finish with contact, and make basic reads and smart passes.


I like the arc to his shot and he catches the ball high. He’s going to be a good shooter eventually. I’m not sold on his handling or cutting ability. He looks more like a cutter than a slasher. He has some moves off the bounce, but not a lot of control and nothing exceptional. In the NBA that handle can keep you from making stupid mistakes, but it isn’t going to get you free from a defender. He also just plays like a kid. Plays way too fast and just plays to dominate kids with less physical ability. He looks like a SG who’ll need a lot of development time, like Lecque.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1318 » by nolang1 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:51 pm

getrichordie wrote:Jahmi'us Ramsey

DRIBBLING

Good and competent ball-handler though not a guy you want handling the ball for an extended period of time. Has flashed some advanced stuff like cross-overs, hesitations, and even behind-the-back dribbles. Left hand is pretty solid. Could stand to tighten up his handle a bit.

PASSING

Really solid passer and willing one, too. Has flashed an array of passes on the move, showing some creativity when pressured. Not a ball-stopper -- if he doesn't see good opportunity, will swing ball quickly. Uses long arms to whip passes around the court when opportunity presents itself. Can effectively rocket passes into shooting pocket. Does a good job of finding open guy on perimeter. Has flashed ability to find his big man in paint or a baseline cutter when driving with wrap-arounds. Likes to drive into top of key, get his feet set and find his guys on the perimeter/coming off screens. Doesn't see corners very well, but could be due to mask interfering with peripheral vision.

SHOOTING

Shot selection could improve, but not bad; likes to step inside 3-pt line and take long 2s at times. Should be attacking rim more often, but sometimes settles for mid-range Js. Takes shots within the flow of the offense for the most part. Really good spot-up/C&S shooter when feet are set -- virtually textbook jumper (84th percentile on spot-up, no-dribble Js; 91st percentile on C&S). Has flashed ability to hit OTD step-back Js.

Pretty and fluid shooting form coming off screens and/or pulling up but efficiency isn't there yet, but enough to reasonably assume it will improve with reps. Better with his feet set in C&S sitches. Dips the ball down pretty far on C&S 3s (below waist line). Release point is nice and high. Could stand to speed up his release a bit, but it's not slow. Has quite a bit of gravity. Defenders are pretty much only 2-3 feet away almost always. Has shown ability to knock down shots from NBA range.

Touch around the rim isn't great as of current, but has flashed enough finishing ability to be optimistic for future improvement. Has shown he can finish through contact at times. Can play above the rim at times when he has room to load up.

MISC

Has flashed ability to euro-step as well as the willingness to attempt behind-the-back dribbles when driving. Shows willingness and instinct for cutting, reads when man is sleeping on him. Pretty awesome ISO player (84th percentile in ISO-derived offense + 88th percentile in own ISO offense) due to gravity from pull-up 3 and threat of going to rim.

DEFENSE

Somewhat raw on defensive end. Makes head-scratching decisions at times, though not very often. Shows good understanding of angles; does a good job of keeping arms up to cut off potential passes. Gets caught ball-watching at times and loses sense of where man is.

When switched on to bigs in P&Rs, does a good job fronting and discouraging entry passes. Isn't easy to push around due to strength.

Solid defensive awareness. Understands what is happening around him and when he needs to help, though is prone to over-helping on occasion. Rotates well on the perimeter and interior for the most part. Needs to work on footwork -- prone to crossing feet.

Overall decision-making is not bad, but needs to improve in order to unlock full defensive potential. Sometimes takes less-than-ideal angles, instead of backpedaling to keep BH in front. Overall, does a solid job of staying in front of guys and discouraging anything real from happening in ISO situations. Can find himself caught in ""no man's land"" at time with poor positioning off-ball at times.

Has flashed capability of stopping attacking BH in transition while backpedaling and keeping arms up. Capable of using long arms to play passing lanes; does read passes before they happen.


Can space the floor, switch on defense, move off the ball, score on mismatches in iso, and his weaknesses are the standard 'needs a little more polish' stuff when he's one of the handful of youngest players in the draft. If he's not quite the shooter as Malik Beasley but a better athlete and defender, he'll be at least a good starting 2 for a while.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1319 » by clyde21 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:57 pm

final rankings (4 tiers)

Spoiler:
RJ HAMPTON
ONYEKA OKONGWU

ANTHONY EDWARDS
TYRESE MAXEY
TYRESE HALIBURTON

JAMES WISEMAN
ISAAC OKORO
JOSH GREEN
COLE ANTHONY
LAMELO BALL
JARED BUTLER
DEVIN VASSELL
OBI TOPPIN
TYLER BEY
ALEKSEJ POKUSEVSKI

PATRICK WILLIAMS
LEANDRO BOLMARO
ISAIAH STEWART
KIRA LEWIS JR.
KILLIAN HAYES
DENI AVDIJA
AARON NESMITH
NICO MANNION
PAUL REED
XAVIER TILLMAN
KILLIAN TILLIE
DESMOND BANE
VERNON CAREY JR.
JAY SCRUB
DEVON DOTSON
JAHMIUS RAMSEY
JADEN MCDANIELS
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1320 » by Stillwater » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:25 pm

clyde21 wrote:final rankings (4 tiers)

Spoiler:
RJ HAMPTON
ONYEKA OKONGWU

ANTHONY EDWARDS
TYRESE MAXEY
TYRESE HALIBURTON

JAMES WISEMAN
ISAAC OKORO
JOSH GREEN
COLE ANTHONY
LAMELO BALL
JARED BUTLER
DEVIN VASSELL
OBI TOPPIN
TYLER BEY
ALEKSEJ POKUSEVSKI

PATRICK WILLIAMS
LEANDRO BOLMARO
ISAIAH STEWART
KIRA LEWIS JR.
PATRICK WILLIAMS
KILLIAN HAYES
DENI AVDIJA
AARON NESMITH
NICO MANNION
PAUL REED
XAVIER TILLMAN
KILLIAN TILLIE
DESMOND BANE
VERNON CAREY JR.
JAY SCRUB
DEVON DOTSON
JAHMIUS RAMSEY
JADEN MCDANIELS

PWIll listed twice
there is only 1 right? lol
Its ok you meant to add Nate Hinton anyway :wink:
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater

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