2020 NBA Draft II

Draft talk all year round

Moderators: Marcus, Ruzious

Stillwater
RealGM
Posts: 12,564
And1: 3,179
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1421 » by Stillwater » Thu Sep 3, 2020 2:13 am

amcoolio wrote:Is it just me are the consensus 4-8 best players in this draft better than the top 3?

All three of the top 3 players are everything you don't want in today's NBA

If I'm Charlotte I'd rather have Avidja, Hayes, Halliburton, Vassel, or Okongwu over Wiseman, Edwards, or Ball

Ball and Wiseman definitely have some bigger bust potential if they dont pop at the next level than others like Okongwu or Vassell but I think Edwards is pretty decent floor 2 way wing despite poor shot selection and floating defensively in meaningless games.
I think Avdija is overrated and could be a wasted pick if taken in top 10 like others in the past that had hype riding into their draft like Jan Vesley Super Mario etc
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
BlazersBroncos
Analyst
Posts: 3,595
And1: 2,545
Joined: Oct 27, 2016

Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1422 » by BlazersBroncos » Thu Sep 3, 2020 2:37 pm

I think Avdija is overrated and could be a wasted pick if taken in top 10 like others in the past that had hype riding into their draft like Jan Vesley Super Mario etc


IDK man, I get some of the defensive concerns but to me his feel for the game and overall skill development is far ahead of Jan and Mario, both of which were overwhelming drafted on physical talents.

Turns out Jan was all athleticism, no feel and when he got into the NBA he just didnt have a position. He should come back at this point, he has developed quite a bit.

Mario just physically looked like the prototypical SF, but he is a really stiff athlete and his testing didnt translate to functional, on court athleticism. His agility is just putrid. And he has a poor attitude from all reports. This should be his last year in the league, he needs to get back to Europe.
Stillwater
RealGM
Posts: 12,564
And1: 3,179
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1423 » by Stillwater » Thu Sep 3, 2020 5:55 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:
I think Avdija is overrated and could be a wasted pick if taken in top 10 like others in the past that had hype riding into their draft like Jan Vesley Super Mario etc


IDK man, I get some of the defensive concerns but to me his feel for the game and overall skill development is far ahead of Jan and Mario, both of which were overwhelming drafted on physical talents.

Turns out Jan was all athleticism, no feel and when he got into the NBA he just didnt have a position. He should come back at this point, he has developed quite a bit.

Mario just physically looked like the prototypical SF, but he is a really stiff athlete and his testing didnt translate to functional, on court athleticism. His agility is just putrid. And he has a poor attitude from all reports. This should be his last year in the league, he needs to get back to Europe.

you can go another direction too then and compare him to prospects like Bender or Saric
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
Mulhollanddrive
General Manager
Posts: 7,730
And1: 5,144
Joined: Jan 19, 2013

Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1424 » by Mulhollanddrive » Fri Sep 4, 2020 12:08 am

If there's a draft without an All Star this would be it.
EMG518
Starter
Posts: 2,089
And1: 542
Joined: Mar 11, 2012

Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1425 » by EMG518 » Fri Sep 4, 2020 1:09 am

Mulhollanddrive wrote:If there's a draft without an All Star this would be it.


Might be right but it would be hard to imagine, every year seems to have one. They are not always the anticipated one either.

Anyone know the last draft to not produce an All Star?
nolang1
Analyst
Posts: 3,396
And1: 1,555
Joined: Aug 03, 2012

Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1426 » by nolang1 » Fri Sep 4, 2020 1:42 am

amcoolio wrote:Is it just me are the consensus 4-8 best players in this draft better than the top 3?

All three of the top 3 players are everything you don't want in today's NBA

If I'm Charlotte I'd rather have Avidja, Hayes, Halliburton, Vassel, or Okongwu over Wiseman, Edwards, or Ball


Yes, they are all about the same to me (and I'd put Poksuevski in there too ahead of Avdija), so you should take any report that teams are willing to trade anything significant to move to the top of the draft with a grain of salt.
Fischella
RealGM
Posts: 14,384
And1: 3,348
Joined: Feb 11, 2012

Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1427 » by Fischella » Fri Sep 4, 2020 2:54 pm

100% guaranteed there will be more than 1 AS from this class, and at least one top20 player in the league during their prime
User avatar
clyde21
RealGM
Posts: 43,295
And1: 49,057
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
   

Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1428 » by clyde21 » Fri Sep 4, 2020 8:38 pm

Fischella wrote:100% guaranteed there will be more than 1 AS from this class, and at least one top20 player in the league during their prime


well yea that's the case for most drafts i think
#BLM #FREEPALESTINE
Catchall
RealGM
Posts: 12,146
And1: 5,050
Joined: Jul 06, 2008
     

Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1429 » by Catchall » Fri Sep 4, 2020 8:53 pm

There are 10 guys that have at least fringe All Star potential. A couple of them should hit.
doordoor123
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,571
And1: 1,149
Joined: Jul 23, 2013

Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1430 » by doordoor123 » Fri Sep 4, 2020 9:46 pm

Fischella wrote:100% guaranteed there will be more than 1 AS from this class, and at least one top20 player in the league during their prime


I’ll take that bet. Don’t think there’ll be a top 20 player in this class.
User avatar
Chicago-Bull-E
RealGM
Posts: 10,863
And1: 3,301
Joined: Jun 27, 2008

Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1431 » by Chicago-Bull-E » Sat Sep 5, 2020 12:03 am

BlazersBroncos wrote:
I think Avdija is overrated and could be a wasted pick if taken in top 10 like others in the past that had hype riding into their draft like Jan Vesley Super Mario etc


IDK man, I get some of the defensive concerns but to me his feel for the game and overall skill development is far ahead of Jan and Mario, both of which were overwhelming drafted on physical talents.

Turns out Jan was all athleticism, no feel and when he got into the NBA he just didnt have a position. He should come back at this point, he has developed quite a bit.

Mario just physically looked like the prototypical SF, but he is a really stiff athlete and his testing didnt translate to functional, on court athleticism. His agility is just putrid. And he has a poor attitude from all reports. This should be his last year in the league, he needs to get back to Europe.


What do you see that makes you think Deni has a quick 1st step? Most of his movement towards the basketball is with the help of a pick. He’s going to struggle to create on his own in the NBA. I don’t see a lot of functional athleticism.

Which means he’ll be a poor shooter, struggle to create outside of the pick and roll, and I don’t think defense is going to be his calling card.

We are going to look back in 3 years at all the warning signs and wonder how everyone didn’t see it. He’s Gallinari without the elite shooting.
KC: Do you still think you're a championship-caliber team?
Gar: I never said that and correct me if I'm wrong
Stillwater
RealGM
Posts: 12,564
And1: 3,179
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1432 » by Stillwater » Sat Sep 5, 2020 12:26 am

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:
BlazersBroncos wrote:
I think Avdija is overrated and could be a wasted pick if taken in top 10 like others in the past that had hype riding into their draft like Jan Vesley Super Mario etc


IDK man, I get some of the defensive concerns but to me his feel for the game and overall skill development is far ahead of Jan and Mario, both of which were overwhelming drafted on physical talents.

Turns out Jan was all athleticism, no feel and when he got into the NBA he just didnt have a position. He should come back at this point, he has developed quite a bit.

Mario just physically looked like the prototypical SF, but he is a really stiff athlete and his testing didnt translate to functional, on court athleticism. His agility is just putrid. And he has a poor attitude from all reports. This should be his last year in the league, he needs to get back to Europe.


What do you see that makes you think Deni has a quick 1st step? Most of his movement towards the basketball is with the help of a pick. He’s going to struggle to create on his own in the NBA. I don’t see a lot of functional athleticism.

Which means he’ll be a poor shooter, struggle to create outside of the pick and roll, and I don’t think defense is going to be his calling card.

We are going to look back in 3 years at all the warning signs and wonder how everyone didn’t see it. He’s Gallinari without the elite shooting.

exactly... but there is some hope that he could develop his playmaking ability and I agree with that part enough so that he should at least be in the late lottery to early 20 range in a redraft
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
KJStark23
Ballboy
Posts: 13
And1: 7
Joined: Feb 21, 2020

Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1433 » by KJStark23 » Sat Sep 5, 2020 11:25 pm

Virtual Draft War Room series: Atlantic Division




doordoor123
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,571
And1: 1,149
Joined: Jul 23, 2013

Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1434 » by doordoor123 » Sun Sep 6, 2020 6:58 pm

My issue with both Ball and Edwards are the same issue I have with Wiggins. Shot selection. These guys were two guys on losing teams, of whom their teams allowed to take every shot. Both players are streaky and both take a lot of bad shots. I don’t think either of them will fix their streaky scoring and it’ll hurt both players in the NBA. Both players should be more of the 5th and 6th pick than the first.
Pistol King
Sophomore
Posts: 212
And1: 236
Joined: Apr 13, 2016
 

Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1435 » by Pistol King » Sun Sep 6, 2020 8:03 pm

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:
What do you see that makes you think Deni has a quick 1st step? Most of his movement towards the basketball is with the help of a pick. He’s going to struggle to create on his own in the NBA. I don’t see a lot of functional athleticism.


I've seen some evidence on his live games. Just two samples:
From 7:12', against Yves Pons who is considered a great defender and an elite athlete:

https://youtu.be/CtBkxDY1ZJI?t=431

From 1:36, 1 v1 against John Holland, who is a good athlete:

Read on Twitter


Remember he's a 6'9-6'10 who is still grow into his body, don't expect him to show a 6'5 like first step.

Which means he’ll be a poor shooter

Your statement was based off the idea he has a bad first step, which I don't think it's correct. Also, you a bit overrating the first step thing, most of the times you see a wing beat a defender 1v1 is thx to a screen, or due to his ball handling and ability to recognize the right moment to attack. Obviously the first step is a good advantage, but not the only one.

,struggle to create outside of the pick and roll,

According to his scouting report his PnR skills ranks in the 92nd percentile (1.054 PTS/POS)

and I don’t think defense is going to be his calling card.

Probably not his calling card but also not a liability. He will have a good combination of big body, good enough lateral movement and good positioning to not be a liability on defense, mixing it with some weak side shot blocking, deflections/steals and high level team defense.

We are going to look back in 3 years at all the warning signs and wonder how everyone didn’t see it. He’s Gallinari without the elite shooting.


The lazy become lazier. Except they're both white European 6'10 players, they are not the same. Here is what Tyler Metcalf who has a nice draft site and spent hundreds of hours on evaluating each prospect in this class has to say about it:

Read on Twitter
doordoor123
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,571
And1: 1,149
Joined: Jul 23, 2013

Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1436 » by doordoor123 » Sun Sep 6, 2020 8:46 pm

Deni is not the difference-maker or safe pick everyone makes him out to be. He’s a solid defender, he’s a solid passer who can push the ball and kind of shoot. He’s still missing a lot of his game, like the ability to cut or shoot off-ball. Playing with his off-hand. Dribbling the ball. Attacking off of dribble moves. He’s a straight line cutter who needs to diversify his game. And all of his big games were in the Israeli league. I’ve heard his draft stock is all over the place in front offices and it makes complete sense since he’s such a long term prospect and is more likely a roleplayer than big piece. His range is probably more like 12-20 than 1-10.
mr570
Sophomore
Posts: 243
And1: 139
Joined: Jul 01, 2018
 

Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1437 » by mr570 » Sun Sep 6, 2020 9:18 pm

What's everyone's thoughts on RJ Hampton? I really like him.
Pistol King
Sophomore
Posts: 212
And1: 236
Joined: Apr 13, 2016
 

Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1438 » by Pistol King » Sun Sep 6, 2020 9:22 pm

doordoor123 wrote:Deni is not the difference-maker or safe pick everyone makes him out to be. He’s a solid defender, he’s a solid passer who can push the ball and kind of shoot. He’s still missing a lot of his game, like the ability to cut or shoot off-ball. Playing with his off-hand. Dribbling the ball. Attacking off of dribble moves. He’s a straight line cutter who needs to diversify his game. And all of his big games were in the Israeli league. I’ve heard his draft stock is all over the place in front offices and it makes complete sense since he’s such a long term prospect and is more likely a roleplayer than big piece. His range is probably more like 12-20 than 1-10.

I wish everyone makes him to be safe, most of the people here are actually underrating him. You expect him to do things his coach would bench him for. To grow through mistakes. This is not how things works in a team like Maccabi Tel Aviv. This is not Illawarra Hawks when LaMelo can brick 17 shots a game until something looks flashy and he can add it to his highlights tape. in a team like Maccabi Tel Aviv every game is matter, every lose is a disaster, Whether if in the Euroleague or the Israeli league, and defense is matter a lot. And they brought players with a lot of money to win games for them, so if Deni doesn't do what his coach ask him to do, other player would take his place. While Deni anyway projected to go to the NBA next year, so they had no real reason to let him grow through mistakes or let him do the ISO stuff you asking him to do. Do you really think he can't take someone off the dribble, or to make some flashy passes? It's all about green light, to feel you have the back of your coach and you can take risk and do some 1v1 flashy plays and he wouldn't bench you immediately, even if it failed. I've seen by my eyes many times when his coach just thrown him to the bench after a little mistake. It's like playing with tight hands behind your back. What he has shown in a team-ball like Maccabi is nowhere near what he will show in an ISO oriented league like the NBA. Don't get me wrong, I have my list of things I'd like him to improve, my only problem is when people claiming 'he can't be this he can't be that' even in the future. It's like taking a kid, tell him to sit down and claim he can't stand up because he sits down.

And where you've heard his draft stock is all over the place in front offices? from what I've heard teams are high on him, some are higher on him more than on LaMelo:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2905180-2020-nba-draft-lottery-buzz-the-mystery-begins-right-at-the-top
BlazersBroncos
Analyst
Posts: 3,595
And1: 2,545
Joined: Oct 27, 2016

Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1439 » by BlazersBroncos » Sun Sep 6, 2020 11:09 pm

Yep, I am a Deni fanboy. I can see him easily being the best player out of this draft. Albeit its a poor year talent wise, but to me its him or OO as the top guys in the class.

He is so different than Gallo, Danilo is an elite shooter where Deni is passable as a shooter but has a tremendous feel for the game specifically as a handler and passer, He should be non-Indiana (Where he was a PF with inflated RB #'s) Detlef IMO. And a Detlef caliber player likely is the best in this draft class.

His floor is appealing as well, as to me there is no chance Deni isnt a rotation caliber guy. I am not sold that Ball or Edwards are rotation guys if they bottom out. Then again, you gamble when picking high. I might take Poku over everyone in this class. Hell, Bol probably would be my #1 in 2020 even with his inability to emotionally get involved in the game.
doordoor123
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,571
And1: 1,149
Joined: Jul 23, 2013

Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1440 » by doordoor123 » Mon Sep 7, 2020 3:15 am

It seems like the Cavs are going to trade their pick. They’re looking at small forwards in free agency, which likely means they aren’t drafting Deni. Plus they already have a bunch of young players they need to give minutes to. If they’re trying to be competitive with Drummond and Love it makes the most sense to find a veteran versus developing more young players. Plus they’ve made it clear they aren’t drafting another point guard. They’re happy with Garland and Sexton (although I’m not sure they should be). They get Windler back next season too.

Return to NBA Draft