2020 NBA Draft II

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1441 » by Chi town » Mon Sep 7, 2020 5:05 am

doordoor123 wrote:Deni is not the difference-maker or safe pick everyone makes him out to be. He’s a solid defender, he’s a solid passer who can push the ball and kind of shoot. He’s still missing a lot of his game, like the ability to cut or shoot off-ball. Playing with his off-hand. Dribbling the ball. Attacking off of dribble moves. He’s a straight line cutter who needs to diversify his game. And all of his big games were in the Israeli league. I’ve heard his draft stock is all over the place in front offices and it makes complete sense since he’s such a long term prospect and is more likely a roleplayer than big piece. His range is probably more like 12-20 than 1-10.


What?
He’s great as a cutter off ball his IQ is strong.
His handles are strong for his height and age. He doesn’t go left a lot but he finishes with his left really well.

From what I’ve heard Dubs are taking him if Edwards off the board and they can’t move their pick.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1442 » by doordoor123 » Mon Sep 7, 2020 6:35 am

Chi town wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:Deni is not the difference-maker or safe pick everyone makes him out to be. He’s a solid defender, he’s a solid passer who can push the ball and kind of shoot. He’s still missing a lot of his game, like the ability to cut or shoot off-ball. Playing with his off-hand. Dribbling the ball. Attacking off of dribble moves. He’s a straight line cutter who needs to diversify his game. And all of his big games were in the Israeli league. I’ve heard his draft stock is all over the place in front offices and it makes complete sense since he’s such a long term prospect and is more likely a roleplayer than big piece. His range is probably more like 12-20 than 1-10.


What?
He’s great as a cutter off ball his IQ is strong.
His handles are strong for his height and age. He doesn’t go left a lot but he finishes with his left really well.

From what I’ve heard Dubs are taking him if Edwards off the board and they can’t move their pick.


He doesn’t play off-ball much and doesn’t generally move off-ball. He even brings it up in multiple interviews, how it’s one of his weaknesses. Part of it is because he can only play with one hand. It’s hard to cut when catching the ball with the wrong hand. He can sizeup a tiny bit out of triple threat, but will always use a straight-line drive to attack. The problem with that it that it works on an open lane or when a defender arrives late leaving a gap to cut. It doesn’t work when the player catches the ball with a man in him. Which makes him pretty worthless in the playoffs. Right now Deni needs a team that runs the floor to be useful. He’s a quick runner, but he’s not explosive and doesn’t know how to lose his defender off-ball. Like Lonzo, once the game gets to half-court his game struggles due to his lack of handle. The handle is the difference between someone with superstar potential and just a good player.
That doesn’t mean he can’t be successful with what he does, but he still has a lot to learn before he even gets to working to perfect his handle.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1443 » by arusinov » Mon Sep 7, 2020 8:12 am

doordoor123 wrote:He doesn’t play off-ball much and doesn’t generally move off-ball.


Well. Everyone is entitled to have their own opinion.. It doesn't mean that opinion has even slightest connection to reality though..

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1444 » by doordoor123 » Mon Sep 7, 2020 1:07 pm

One play doesn’t make a career
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1445 » by arusinov » Mon Sep 7, 2020 2:00 pm

doordoor123 wrote:One play doesn’t make a career


well, you didn't even bother to take look in the video which contains not "one play" but about 15 different off-ball cuts by Avdija...
In fact Avdija being very high BBIQ player is almost unbelievably good in this component for 19 years old... If in some interview he said that he should improve his off-ball abilities - it's because he's perfectionist which thinks that being just very good is not good enough
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1446 » by PerkinsFor3 » Mon Sep 7, 2020 2:14 pm

doordoor123 wrote:One play doesn’t make a career




Follow me on Twitter - https://twitter.com/perkinsfor3.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1447 » by doordoor123 » Mon Sep 7, 2020 2:18 pm

PerkinsFor3 wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:One play doesn’t make a career






:lol:
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1448 » by Chi town » Mon Sep 7, 2020 4:25 pm

doordoor123 wrote:
Chi town wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:Deni is not the difference-maker or safe pick everyone makes him out to be. He’s a solid defender, he’s a solid passer who can push the ball and kind of shoot. He’s still missing a lot of his game, like the ability to cut or shoot off-ball. Playing with his off-hand. Dribbling the ball. Attacking off of dribble moves. He’s a straight line cutter who needs to diversify his game. And all of his big games were in the Israeli league. I’ve heard his draft stock is all over the place in front offices and it makes complete sense since he’s such a long term prospect and is more likely a roleplayer than big piece. His range is probably more like 12-20 than 1-10.


What?
He’s great as a cutter off ball his IQ is strong.
His handles are strong for his height and age. He doesn’t go left a lot but he finishes with his left really well.

From what I’ve heard Dubs are taking him if Edwards off the board and they can’t move their pick.


He doesn’t play off-ball much and doesn’t generally move off-ball. He even brings it up in multiple interviews, how it’s one of his weaknesses. Part of it is because he can only play with one hand. It’s hard to cut when catching the ball with the wrong hand. He can sizeup a tiny bit out of triple threat, but will always use a straight-line drive to attack. The problem with that it that it works on an open lane or when a defender arrives late leaving a gap to cut. It doesn’t work when the player catches the ball with a man in him. Which makes him pretty worthless in the playoffs. Right now Deni needs a team that runs the floor to be useful. He’s a quick runner, but he’s not explosive and doesn’t know how to lose his defender off-ball. Like Lonzo, once the game gets to half-court his game struggles due to his lack of handle. The handle is the difference between someone with superstar potential and just a good player.
That doesn’t mean he can’t be successful with what he does, but he still has a lot to learn before he even gets to working to perfect his handle.


Are you watching highlights or complete games?

Watching complete games you see he plays off ball a lot and normally only brings the ball up on a grab n go. He’s excellent cutting off ball. Know when and where to go. Great feel. His lack of left hand doesn’t effect his cutting. That’s nonsense. I’d like to see those clips.

Right now he’s got the tools to develop into a point forward secondary playmaker. He has to put a lot of work into his handle in order to create separation and use his body to make plays much like Jimmy Butler and Gordon Hayward.

His absolute ceiling would be a lead handler which IMO he has shown flashes of this on the break but not really in the halfcourt. This could really develop in the PNR though. I wouldn’t bank on this.

Given his work ethic and tenacity and what he showed with increased time and opportunity post break I’m a believer in the Hayward comp as a point fwd.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1449 » by thinktank » Mon Sep 7, 2020 9:49 pm

KJStark23 wrote:


I got a lot out of this. Thanks for posting. Well-reasoned stuff.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1450 » by getrichordie » Tue Sep 8, 2020 4:47 am

I've started to come around on a few guys who I haven't really considered before:

Quinton Rose (Temple)
Kamar Baldwin (Butler)
Lamar Stevens (Penn St.)

A few international guys who have caught my eye are:

Borisa Simanic
Tadas Sederkerskis
Vit Krejci
:basketball: 2020 BIG BOARD
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1451 » by King Ken » Tue Sep 8, 2020 7:00 am

getrichordie wrote:I've started to come around on a few guys who I haven't really considered before:

Quinton Rose (Temple)
Kamar Baldwin (Butler)
Lamar Stevens (Penn St.)

A few international guys who have caught my eye are:

Borisa Simanic
Tadas Sederkerskis
Vit Krejci

Been sky high on Baldwin since I saw him play in HS. He's an excellent basketball player and really developed into a nice combo guard with NBA potential at Butler. He's an NBA player, I just don't know his position yet and what's his best fit overall but his ability and talent with his BBIQ is there as well as his tough shot-making ability.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1452 » by BostonCouchGM » Tue Sep 8, 2020 7:29 am

amcoolio wrote:Is it just me are the consensus 4-8 best players in this draft better than the top 3?

All three of the top 3 players are everything you don't want in today's NBA

If I'm Charlotte I'd rather have Avidja, Hayes, Halliburton, Vassel, or Okongwu over Wiseman, Edwards, or Ball


The team picking 4th (Chicago or someone wanting to trade up) is hoping and praying someone is dumb enough to take Ball top 3.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1453 » by BlazersBroncos » Tue Sep 8, 2020 10:05 pm

NBADraft.net has Petrusev at 37 but Tillie undrafted. Thats insane on a monumental level.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1454 » by doordoor123 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 11:20 pm

The PG position is really deep in this draft. I only think there are a few starters, but a lot of backups. The problem with that is that the NBA is already loaded with PGs. Guys like Trey Burke are fliers. A lot of good players are not going to make the league. Maybe some of these guys play more of the 2 than the 1 just because they're talented enough to be in the league and handling/passing is important. If you need a sleeper PG is where to choose, but they aren't likely going to be all-stars just because its so difficult to be an all-star as a PG in the league. PGs in the NBA are just so skilled and there are already too many good ones. That's one of the reasons this is a bad draft. Unless the player has big potential, like enough to be a one-time type of all-star or better, PGs aren't really needed. This is also why passing is so valuable and why people shouldnt sleep on great passers versus good ones. A lot of teams need PG organizers or guys that can deliver the ball where it needs to go. Its why Rubio has spent so much time without getting benched and found the minutes to learn to shoot better and why Rondo is still not out of the league. These kind of guys are really useful. And when they're your superstar, like LeBron or Jokic, they are perennial all-stars. That's why I'm telling people not to sleep on Nico Mannion and Cassius Winston. They'll both get minutes. Sigh... and LaMelo Ball...
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1455 » by Revenged25 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 1:57 pm

Chi town wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:Deni is not the difference-maker or safe pick everyone makes him out to be. He’s a solid defender, he’s a solid passer who can push the ball and kind of shoot. He’s still missing a lot of his game, like the ability to cut or shoot off-ball. Playing with his off-hand. Dribbling the ball. Attacking off of dribble moves. He’s a straight line cutter who needs to diversify his game. And all of his big games were in the Israeli league. I’ve heard his draft stock is all over the place in front offices and it makes complete sense since he’s such a long term prospect and is more likely a roleplayer than big piece. His range is probably more like 12-20 than 1-10.


What?
He’s great as a cutter off ball his IQ is strong.
His handles are strong for his height and age. He doesn’t go left a lot but he finishes with his left really well.

From what I’ve heard Dubs are taking him if Edwards off the board and they can’t move their pick.


So that means the top 4 is almost locked to be Edwards/Ball/Wiseman/Deni is one order or another. The only way that changes is if Minnesota surprises everyone and makes the logical pick in Okongwu, rather than shooting for high upside of Edwards.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1456 » by BlazersBroncos » Wed Sep 9, 2020 2:04 pm

So that means the top 4 is almost locked to be Edwards/Ball/Wiseman/Deni is one order or another. The only way that changes is if Minnesota surprises everyone and makes the logical pick in Okongwu, rather than shooting for high upside of Edwards.


Yep. I am also in the minority that thinks MIN should take OO. His defensive versatility and rim running, high motor, 'do the little things' type play would be such an ideal compliment to KAT and DLo, who lack about all those traits.

He could play PF next to KAT, guarding whomever is a worse matchup for KAT among the other teams PF/C, and be an elite efficiency garbage man on offense until that jumper develops, which it will.

Edwards, DLo and KAT strike me as a paper tiger. The lack of moxie amongst those three excellent talents would be very worrisome to me.

OO's ability to roll hard on the PnR would team so well with DLo, KAT seems to be more of a pop guy in the PnR.

My 'what they should do' top-5 right now is:

1. Minnesota - Onyeka Okongwu PF/C
2. Golden State - Deni Avdija F
3. Charlotte - Anthony Edwards G
4. Chicago - James Wiseman C
5. Cleveland - Aleksej Pokusevski F
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1457 » by Chi town » Wed Sep 9, 2020 3:54 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
Chi town wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:Deni is not the difference-maker or safe pick everyone makes him out to be. He’s a solid defender, he’s a solid passer who can push the ball and kind of shoot. He’s still missing a lot of his game, like the ability to cut or shoot off-ball. Playing with his off-hand. Dribbling the ball. Attacking off of dribble moves. He’s a straight line cutter who needs to diversify his game. And all of his big games were in the Israeli league. I’ve heard his draft stock is all over the place in front offices and it makes complete sense since he’s such a long term prospect and is more likely a roleplayer than big piece. His range is probably more like 12-20 than 1-10.


What?
He’s great as a cutter off ball his IQ is strong.
His handles are strong for his height and age. He doesn’t go left a lot but he finishes with his left really well.

From what I’ve heard Dubs are taking him if Edwards off the board and they can’t move their pick.


So that means the top 4 is almost locked to be Edwards/Ball/Wiseman/Deni is one order or another. The only way that changes is if Minnesota surprises everyone and makes the logical pick in Okongwu, rather than shooting for high upside of Edwards.


Maybe. Hayes could be in there too.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1458 » by doordoor123 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 4:14 pm

I actually think Haliburton is the Tatum of this draft. He started to get so much better by the end of the season. People are overlooking him and he might be the best player in the draft. There’s a possibility the Warriors take him if he’s there and he becomes really good. Weird comparison, but his pacing reminds me of modern Paul George with how meticulous he is. It’s the speed he plays is and the ability to always take the right shots. When he hit that midrange and adds more moves to his arsenal he’s going to be really good. And he only recently started to fix his shot without a drop off. You can tell he has a really strong work ethic. Even look how his body has changed in the past year. He seems like a future leader of a team.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1459 » by amcoolio » Wed Sep 9, 2020 5:46 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:
So that means the top 4 is almost locked to be Edwards/Ball/Wiseman/Deni is one order or another. The only way that changes is if Minnesota surprises everyone and makes the logical pick in Okongwu, rather than shooting for high upside of Edwards.


Yep. I am also in the minority that thinks MIN should take OO. His defensive versatility and rim running, high motor, 'do the little things' type play would be such an ideal compliment to KAT and DLo, who lack about all those traits.

He could play PF next to KAT, guarding whomever is a worse matchup for KAT among the other teams PF/C, and be an elite efficiency garbage man on offense until that jumper develops, which it will.

Edwards, DLo and KAT strike me as a paper tiger. The lack of moxie amongst those three excellent talents would be very worrisome to me.

OO's ability to roll hard on the PnR would team so well with DLo, KAT seems to be more of a pop guy in the PnR.

My 'what they should do' top-5 right now is:

1. Minnesota - Onyeka Okongwu PF/C
2. Golden State - Deni Avdija F
3. Charlotte - Anthony Edwards G
4. Chicago - James Wiseman C
5. Cleveland - Aleksej Pokusevski F


I'm hoping Okongwu is picked by Charlotte. I think he has the most "Paul George" potential in this draft
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1460 » by doordoor123 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 5:53 pm

amcoolio wrote:
BlazersBroncos wrote:
So that means the top 4 is almost locked to be Edwards/Ball/Wiseman/Deni is one order or another. The only way that changes is if Minnesota surprises everyone and makes the logical pick in Okongwu, rather than shooting for high upside of Edwards.


Yep. I am also in the minority that thinks MIN should take OO. His defensive versatility and rim running, high motor, 'do the little things' type play would be such an ideal compliment to KAT and DLo, who lack about all those traits.

He could play PF next to KAT, guarding whomever is a worse matchup for KAT among the other teams PF/C, and be an elite efficiency garbage man on offense until that jumper develops, which it will.

Edwards, DLo and KAT strike me as a paper tiger. The lack of moxie amongst those three excellent talents would be very worrisome to me.

OO's ability to roll hard on the PnR would team so well with DLo, KAT seems to be more of a pop guy in the PnR.

My 'what they should do' top-5 right now is:

1. Minnesota - Onyeka Okongwu PF/C
2. Golden State - Deni Avdija F
3. Charlotte - Anthony Edwards G
4. Chicago - James Wiseman C
5. Cleveland - Aleksej Pokusevski F


I'm hoping Okongwu is picked by Charlotte. I think he has the most "Paul George" potential in this draft


Are you taking a dig at me without quoting me?

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