2020 NBA Draft II

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1581 » by stormi » Tue Nov 3, 2020 3:34 am

doordoor123 wrote:
stormi wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:
you should have just put your fingers in your ears and yelled "na na na boo boo, I can't hear you!" instead because that's exactly how you sound. Let me guess, born after 1995?


Bird is a tremendous passer and is a flashier passer, but Lebron is more efficient and technical. Superior career assist / turnover ratio. Much greater assist% (more of a floor general than Bird ever was). Bird has never averaged more than 7.5 assists per game. Lebron has had 3 seasons of 8+, a season of 9 and now this year averaged 10.

Lebron is just below Stockton and Magic and in that rung with Kidd, Rondo, Paul, Nash. Bird is a tier below.


I don't know why they need to be ranked, but Kidd, Rondo, Nash and Paul were not better passers than Bird. Bird just wasn't a PG. But overall it was a different kind of basketball.


I mean. Based on what. Rondo was absolutely a better passer than Bird. As was/is CP3.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1582 » by doordoor123 » Tue Nov 3, 2020 3:52 am

stormi wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:
stormi wrote:
Bird is a tremendous passer and is a flashier passer, but Lebron is more efficient and technical. Superior career assist / turnover ratio. Much greater assist% (more of a floor general than Bird ever was). Bird has never averaged more than 7.5 assists per game. Lebron has had 3 seasons of 8+, a season of 9 and now this year averaged 10.

Lebron is just below Stockton and Magic and in that rung with Kidd, Rondo, Paul, Nash. Bird is a tier below.


I don't know why they need to be ranked, but Kidd, Rondo, Nash and Paul were not better passers than Bird. Bird just wasn't a PG. But overall it was a different kind of basketball.


I mean. Based on what. Rondo was absolutely a better passer than Bird. As was/is CP3.


Rondo literally had the ball in his hands all the time, same with CP3. When they were playing the PG wasn't even the position it is today, where multiple guys can play that position. PGs were the controllers. They run plays for those guys to distribute constantly. First of all, Birds ability to shoot already gave him more space to pass than Rondo, plus you couldn't give bird room because he was such a good shooter. On top of that a lot of Birds passes were on the fly, that's why he was such a great passer. He could see spaces no one else could and could get it there with pinpoint accuracy. Bird didn't need to dribble the ball 50 times to find someone open, like all of these point guards did. Jason Kidd was probably the best out of those players in terms of actual passing ability.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1583 » by NO-KG-AI » Tue Nov 3, 2020 4:06 am

Rondo only in his advanced age even got out of the horrible habit of holding the ball till the shot clock before hitting a teammate for a contested long jumper with almost no time left on the clock. Lucky for him, he played with 3 absolutely stellar tough shot makers.


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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1584 » by stormi » Tue Nov 3, 2020 4:33 am

Rondo getting underrated itt and it's sad to see. But off topic, and I'm glad we've come to the consensus that Lebron is clear of Larry when it comes to playmaking (and most other categories lol).
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1585 » by doordoor123 » Tue Nov 3, 2020 5:06 am

stormi wrote:Rondo getting underrated itt and it's sad to see. But off topic, and I'm glad we've come to the consensus that Lebron is clear of Larry when it comes to playmaking (and most other categories lol).


Not really, I still think Rondo is a great passer, but were talking in context of the best passers ever. I don't think he's one of the greatest passers ever.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1586 » by getrichordie » Tue Nov 3, 2020 5:28 am

I have a question.

Why is Hayes' being left-hand dominant such an explored issue? Right-handed players have the same issues.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1587 » by MemphisX » Tue Nov 3, 2020 6:14 am

getrichordie wrote:I have a question.

Why is Hayes' being left-hand dominant such an explored issue? Right-handed players have the same issues.



Name one.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1588 » by getrichordie » Tue Nov 3, 2020 6:22 am

MemphisX wrote:
getrichordie wrote:I have a question.

Why is Hayes' being left-hand dominant such an explored issue? Right-handed players have the same issues.



Name one.


Needing to revert back to your dominant hand to throw a pass.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1589 » by MemphisX » Tue Nov 3, 2020 9:33 am

getrichordie wrote:
MemphisX wrote:
getrichordie wrote:I have a question.

Why is Hayes' being left-hand dominant such an explored issue? Right-handed players have the same issues.



Name one.


Needing to revert back to your dominant hand to throw a pass.


I meant name a PG who was a top pick that had to do that...
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1590 » by BlazersBroncos » Tue Nov 3, 2020 4:08 pm

Rondo getting underrated itt and it's sad to see. But off topic, and I'm glad we've come to the consensus that Lebron is clear of Larry when it comes to playmaking (and most other categories lol).


I think playmaking may be one of the few fields where Bird actually was better. I think Larry was more fun to watch but going off advanced and raw stats its pretty clear LBJ is the superior player. Not to mention Bird was on a tremendously well run franchsie that consistently surrounded him with top tier talent. I think his supporting cast top-to-bottom was almost always better than what LBJ was working with, even with his constant super team hunting.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1591 » by doordoor123 » Tue Nov 3, 2020 8:18 pm

One of Hayes odd strengths is his ability to pass across court from either side of the floor despite being heavily left-handed. So I don't see much of an issue there. Its such a minor nit-picky thing.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1592 » by doordoor123 » Tue Nov 3, 2020 8:24 pm

lol this draft is going to be crazy
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1593 » by CoreyVillains » Tue Nov 3, 2020 8:26 pm

Newest scouting video available now on one of the draft internet’s favorites, Desmond Bane.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1594 » by MemphisX » Wed Nov 4, 2020 4:16 am

doordoor123 wrote:One of Hayes odd strengths is his ability to pass across court from either side of the floor despite being heavily left-handed. So I don't see much of an issue there. Its such a minor nit-picky thing.



Eh, I didn't see that at all. The low level Euro league was able to close off half the court on him. It is physically impossible to make some passes when you are one handed.

Just me personally, I can't recall another top point guard that was so one handed with passing and finishing.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1595 » by doordoor123 » Sun Nov 8, 2020 11:00 pm

Daniel Oturu and Precious Achiewa are the exact same age even if Oturu has one more year of college experience.

Achiewa is a great defender though his free throw shooting is pretty terrible. It doesn't project well for his jumper. He also probably has the best motor of any bigs in the draft. He can also handle the ball a little. Clearly immense upside.

Oturu could be a better wing defender, but he can really defend the inside. He can shoot a little bit. He's also probably the best finishing big in the draft. He can do it with contact pretty well even when he isn't that strong. Oturu also has a pretty darn good handle for someone his size. Clearly has a lot of upside.

Which player do you prefer?
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1596 » by clyde21 » Sun Nov 8, 2020 11:39 pm

i hate that we've had so much to time to think about this draft, overthinking is probably happening at this point and that's usually when the bigger mistakes happen.

i finalized my bb now by only up to the top 12 players i feel most strongly about, after that it becomes much more about positional/team fit, much closer in value for me.

---

1. R.J. HAMPTON
2. ONYEKA OKONGWU

3. DEVIN VASSELL
4. TYRESE HALIBURTON
5. ANTHONY EDWARDS

6. COLE ANTHONY
7. TYRESE MAXEY
8. JOSH GREEN
9. KIRA LEWIS JR.
10. JAMES WISEMAN
11. TYLER BEY
12. ISAAC OKORO
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1597 » by Stillwater » Sun Nov 8, 2020 11:59 pm

clyde21 wrote:i hate that we've had so much to time to think about this draft, overthinking is probably happening at this point and that's usually when the bigger mistakes happen.

i finalized my bb now by only up to the top 12 players i feel most strongly about, after that it becomes much more about positional/team fit, much closer in value for me.

---

1. R.J. HAMPTON
2. ONYEKA OKONGWU

3. DEVIN VASSELL
4. TYRESE HALIBURTON
5. ANTHONY EDWARDS

6. COLE ANTHONY
7. TYRESE MAXEY
8. JOSH GREEN
9. KIRA LEWIS JR.
10. JAMES WISEMAN
11. TYLER BEY
12. ISAAC OKORO

Ball is a bust then you think? what about Avdija?
I agree Wiseman is being overvalued ( you have him lower than most do)but I am not sure Green Maxey or Hampton are better pros long term either.
I am not that excited about Hampton despite seeing the upside, I think he is too far away to be considered the best prospect in the draft for sure.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1598 » by clyde21 » Mon Nov 9, 2020 12:11 am

Stillwater wrote:
clyde21 wrote:i hate that we've had so much to time to think about this draft, overthinking is probably happening at this point and that's usually when the bigger mistakes happen.

i finalized my bb now by only up to the top 12 players i feel most strongly about, after that it becomes much more about positional/team fit, much closer in value for me.

---

1. R.J. HAMPTON
2. ONYEKA OKONGWU

3. DEVIN VASSELL
4. TYRESE HALIBURTON
5. ANTHONY EDWARDS

6. COLE ANTHONY
7. TYRESE MAXEY
8. JOSH GREEN
9. KIRA LEWIS JR.
10. JAMES WISEMAN
11. TYLER BEY
12. ISAAC OKORO

Ball is a bust then you think? what about Avdija?
I agree Wiseman is being overvalued ( you have him lower than most do)but I am not sure Green Maxey or Hampton are better pros long term either.
I am not that excited about Hampton despite seeing the upside, I think he is too far away to be considered the best prospect in the draft for sure.


Ball as a bust is too strong of a word, I'm just not a huge fan of the archetype, high-usage, low-efficiency and very little defense...he's either your primary handler or he's not contributing much, and I don't see myself building a winning team with Melo as the primary initiator at this point...D'Angelo Russell career arc possibly, will get numbers, just not a winning player

Avdija is well rounded for his age and I like the archetype conceptually but skill by skill I don't think he does anything NBA-level at this point imo which makes his projection a bit tough, gonna lead to him being a bit overdrafted...but I do think he'd be a good pick in the teens somewhere depending on fit
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1599 » by Stillwater » Mon Nov 9, 2020 12:40 am

clyde21 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
clyde21 wrote:i hate that we've had so much to time to think about this draft, overthinking is probably happening at this point and that's usually when the bigger mistakes happen.

i finalized my bb now by only up to the top 12 players i feel most strongly about, after that it becomes much more about positional/team fit, much closer in value for me.

---

1. R.J. HAMPTON
2. ONYEKA OKONGWU

3. DEVIN VASSELL
4. TYRESE HALIBURTON
5. ANTHONY EDWARDS

6. COLE ANTHONY
7. TYRESE MAXEY
8. JOSH GREEN
9. KIRA LEWIS JR.
10. JAMES WISEMAN
11. TYLER BEY
12. ISAAC OKORO

Ball is a bust then you think? what about Avdija?
I agree Wiseman is being overvalued ( you have him lower than most do)but I am not sure Green Maxey or Hampton are better pros long term either.
I am not that excited about Hampton despite seeing the upside, I think he is too far away to be considered the best prospect in the draft for sure.


Ball as a bust is too strong of a word, I'm just not a huge fan of the archetype, high-usage, low-efficiency and very little defense...he's either your primary handler or he's not contributing much, and I don't see myself building a winning team with Melo as the primary initiator at this point...D'Angelo Russell career arc possibly, will get numbers, just not a winning player

Avdija is well rounded for his age and I like the archetype conceptually but skill by skill I don't think he does anything NBA-level at this point imo which makes his projection a bit tough, gonna lead to him being a bit overdrafted...but I do think he'd be a good pick in the teens somewhere depending on fit

Thats where I am at with Deni for the most part right now and as far as Ball goes I think he will be drafted to be the primary and so he will have plenty of ops to improve but I am also not sold he is a winner
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1600 » by BostonCouchGM » Mon Nov 9, 2020 4:36 am

stormi wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:
stormi wrote:
Absolutely not pressing play on that LOL. And he's not a better passer than Lebron James, save your keystrokes at me or on youtube.


you should have just put your fingers in your ears and yelled "na na na boo boo, I can't hear you!" instead because that's exactly how you sound. Let me guess, born after 1995?


Bird is a tremendous passer and is a flashier passer, but Lebron is more efficient and technical. Superior career assist / turnover ratio. Much greater assist% (more of a floor general than Bird ever was). Bird has never averaged more than 7.5 assists per game. Lebron has had 3 seasons of 8+, a season of 9 and now this year averaged 10.

Lebron is just below Stockton and Magic and in that rung with Kidd, Rondo, Paul, Nash. Bird is a tier below.


you literally don't know what you're talking about. I'm guessing you never watched Bird play a game live and didn't witness the vast differences in era. Lebron is a high usage point forward in a wide open era, with no defense, unclogged lanes and shooters everywhere around him. Of course his assists numbers will be higher. Bird had two sometimes three 6'10" guys clogging lanes, who couldn't shoot, and they allowed defense. The fact Bird's assist numbers aren't that much lower than Lebron's speaks volumes. Magic, Kidd and Bird are on their own tier. Glad we could settle this "debate"

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