2020 NBA Draft II

clyde21 · Post #441 » by **clyde21** » Fri Apr 3, 2020 6:59 am

^ no one is saying he's a bust and no one is claiming he has to be Anthony Davis, but if you're talking about a top 3 or top 5 CENTER in today's NBA...you HAVE to be a multi-level player, you just have to be

and when the majority of his offense is gonna come on catching and put-backs, he needs ELITE hands, which I'm not sure he has at this point...

yea, nothing is set in stone, he's still super young with a lot of developement ahead, but he's being graded as a top pick in the draft, these things matter.

RiotPunch · Post #442 » by **RiotPunch** » Fri Apr 3, 2020 7:09 am

CoreyVillains wrote:Just uploaded my Obi Toppin prospect breakdown. Went deep on him, 11 minutes With commentary. He’s so much fun. I hope he ends up with a good pg so so badly.

Watch on YouTube

Props on being able to afford Aziz for the voice-over work.

getrichordie · Post #443 » by **getrichordie** » Fri Apr 3, 2020 7:14 am

Roddy B for 3 wrote:
getrichordie wrote:

Watch on YouTube

This shows just how raw Wiseman is. He makes some pretty bone-headed decisions. Low IQ player from the looks of it. Post-moves, non-existent. Doesn't understand spacing. Shows poor hands here. Maybe it was nerves, who knows... but definitely something to consider. It was his first 3 games, after all and his mother moved so she could be in Memphis with him. The potential of all of that money and notoriety and it's affects on a young mind cannot be overstated. I definitely wouldn't call this a closed case.

He did have an ankle injury in October, before playing in November, so not sure if that affected his mobility, or factored into his motivation to move his feet, but just playing Devil's advocate here.

Also, here's an excerpt from a CBSSports article:

Spoiler:
I wouldn't blame him at all, just like you and I should not place any blame on Wiseman for what he's doing. The 7-footer's not to blame for the suspension to begin with and he's not to blame for his own choice to leave college basketball behind.

The adults failed him at just about every turn here. Memphis coach Penny Hardaway unwittingly failed him the moment he gave $11,500 to Wiseman's mother for what's been identified as moving expenses. Though no one could have known then, it triggered an eligibility case that would ultimately become the biggest melodrama of college basketball's first two months of the 2019-20 season.

That's extremely nit-picky stuff. An 18.5 year old 7 footer isn't a great permirer player against the #14 ranked team in the NCAA by his 3rd game? He missed a outback dunk! His teammates missed a floater after driving into a clogged lane! The 18.5 year old jumped on a pump fake in his 3rd game! He is CLEARLY not Anthony Davis... Smh bust..

A video like this can be made for any prospect. ANY. I'm sure LeBron missed dunks and rotations at St. Vincent St. Mary's. I bet his took shoots when double teamed with open teammates around him.

This kind of video can be made positively or negativitly for any prospect. It's a three minute video, but he resys each clip multiple times, so it's like 10 plays from three games of and 18 year old sying college ball against a #14 ranked team. Smh.

Fwiw I'm throwing shade at the creator of this video, not you getrichordie. I think your post under the video is very fair. That video is obviously biased. I'd like to see that guy make a highlight video of Wiseman and see if the +'s outweigh the -'s.

I understand where you are coming from, man. He's super young and raw. I'm sure more games would have helped him iron out some of the kinks in his game. FWIW though, other bigs such as Okungwu and Stewart did, indeed, come in a little more polished and they have good understanding and are/were aware of their role on the team. They understand spacing.

That's the big thing to me that stood out - how Wiseman just camps at the top of the key and doesn't move when the ball is moving. That is a big no-no, in my opinion.

No-Man · Post #444 » by **No-Man** » Fri Apr 3, 2020 12:16 pm

the point is that unless a big is ridiculously skilled taking him top3-5 is not a good idea

Wiseman being young and raw isn't enough of an excuse, it's just not worth it, skilled players showcase that to a degree, with him it's a pie in the sky type of scenario

CoreyVillains · Post #445 » by **CoreyVillains** » Fri Apr 3, 2020 1:36 pm

RiotPunch wrote:
CoreyVillains wrote:Just uploaded my Obi Toppin prospect breakdown. Went deep on him, 11 minutes With commentary. He’s so much fun. I hope he ends up with a good pg so so badly.

Watch on YouTube

Props on being able to afford Aziz for the voice-over work.

Appreciate that. I got deep pockets.

Wilber85 · Post #446 » by **Wilber85** » Fri Apr 3, 2020 4:04 pm

This draft is trash.

Stillwater · Post #447 » by **Stillwater** » Fri Apr 3, 2020 7:24 pm

Wilber85 wrote:This draft is trash.

its not much different than most except it lacks top of the mock type locks sort like last year except it had Zion and Ja.
There are plenty of potential rotation prospects same as last draft not many high upside though and for the ones you could say have it, are really more or less extremely high bust potential types. I am guessing many orgs opt for higher floor safer picks with average upside barring significant improvements.
I guess what I am saying I would not be surprised to see P.Pritchard or J.Smith go before Maxey or McDaniels.

clyde21 · Post #448 » by **clyde21** » Fri Apr 3, 2020 7:25 pm

my top 2 tiers

TIER 1
⦁ R.J. HAMPTON
⦁ ANTHONY EDWARDS

TIER 2
⦁ OBI TOPPIN
⦁ SCOTTIE LEWIS
⦁ TYRESE HALIBURTON
⦁ JOSH GREEN
⦁ COLE ANTHONY
⦁ TYRESE MAXEY
⦁ NICO MANNION
⦁ TYLER BEY

pretty set in stone at this point.

MemphisX · Post #449 » by **MemphisX** » Fri Apr 3, 2020 9:53 pm

Fischella wrote:the point is that unless a big is ridiculously skilled taking him top3-5 is not a good idea

Wiseman being young and raw isn't enough of an excuse, it's just not worth it, skilled players showcase that to a degree, with him it's a pie in the sky type of scenario

I think this notion is growing with NBA draft Twitter types and I do not think it is right. If the wing/PG has no potential to be an offensive engine, their value isn't greater than a center that can be a defensive anchor. Even good 3&D wings are not more valuable IMO.

The problem with evaluating Wiseman is you got no showcase. He is a hard evaluation and showing lowlights from 3 college games is small sample size theater. The true evaluation on him will be between the ears and none of us will have that info.

Stillwater · Post #450 » by **Stillwater** » Fri Apr 3, 2020 10:27 pm

MemphisX wrote:
Fischella wrote:the point is that unless a big is ridiculously skilled taking him top3-5 is not a good idea

Wiseman being young and raw isn't enough of an excuse, it's just not worth it, skilled players showcase that to a degree, with him it's a pie in the sky type of scenario

I think this notion is growing with NBA draft Twitter types and I do not think it is right. If the wing/PG has no potential to be an offensive engine, their value isn't greater than a center that can be a defensive anchor. Even good 3&D wings are not more valuable IMO.

The problem with evaluating Wiseman is you got no showcase. He is a hard evaluation and showing lowlights from 3 college games is small sample size theater. The true evaluation on him will be between the ears and none of us will have that info.

even with the ltd spotlight in college being a decent show of force by him , there definitely is that gamble that is higher not knowing what his level of interest in the game is, how much work he has been putting in etc just from not playing .
However imo with nobody able to play in the big dance and nobody who was in contention for the top 3 having unprecedented seasons to push them to lock status ahead of Wiseman , there is no reason to think he won't still be gone after #3. and imo is if anything the only true top 3 lock in the draft with Edwards being a top 5 lock. Always that slim chance depending on the org a pg or Edwards goes #1 or 1-2 pushing him to 3 but unless he fails the interview process he is the #1 prospect in this draft imo on most orgs bb's.https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28751421/james-wiseman-opens-heartbreaking-memphis-saga

clyde21 · Post #451 » by **clyde21** » Sat Apr 4, 2020 1:54 am

MemphisX wrote:
Fischella wrote:the point is that unless a big is ridiculously skilled taking him top3-5 is not a good idea

Wiseman being young and raw isn't enough of an excuse, it's just not worth it, skilled players showcase that to a degree, with him it's a pie in the sky type of scenario

I think this notion is growing with NBA draft Twitter types and I do not think it is right. If the wing/PG has no potential to be an offensive engine, their value isn't greater than a center that can be a defensive anchor. Even good 3&D wings are not more valuable IMO.

The problem with evaluating Wiseman is you got no showcase. He is a hard evaluation and showing lowlights from 3 college games is small sample size theater. The true evaluation on him will be between the ears and none of us will have that info.

there is very little proof that Wiseman can be a defensive anchor, let's stop acting like he's Anthony Davis coming out...can he be good defensively? sure he can get there, but he's far from an elite defensive prospect at this point. if he was this discussion would be completely different.

MemphisX · Post #452 » by **MemphisX** » Sat Apr 4, 2020 3:38 am

clyde21 wrote:
MemphisX wrote:
Fischella wrote:the point is that unless a big is ridiculously skilled taking him top3-5 is not a good idea

Wiseman being young and raw isn't enough of an excuse, it's just not worth it, skilled players showcase that to a degree, with him it's a pie in the sky type of scenario

I think this notion is growing with NBA draft Twitter types and I do not think it is right. If the wing/PG has no potential to be an offensive engine, their value isn't greater than a center that can be a defensive anchor. Even good 3&D wings are not more valuable IMO.

The problem with evaluating Wiseman is you got no showcase. He is a hard evaluation and showing lowlights from 3 college games is small sample size theater. The true evaluation on him will be between the ears and none of us will have that info.

there is very little proof that Wiseman can be a defensive anchor, let's stop acting like he's Anthony Davis coming out...can he be good defensively? sure he can get there, but he's far from an elite defensive prospect at this point. if he was this discussion would be completely different.

No player in this draft has shown to be competent in their potential NBA role except for guys projected to be a backup.

HeadtopChunes · Post #453 » by **HeadtopChunes** » Sat Apr 4, 2020 4:01 am

if the season is canceled should all the teams be added to the lottery?

clyde21 · Post #454 » by **clyde21** » Sat Apr 4, 2020 4:12 am

HeadtopChunes wrote:if the season is canceled should all the teams be added to the lottery?

why? the lottery was already pretty much set before the season was suspended...what would have changed if the season continued?

HeadtopChunes · Post #455 » by **HeadtopChunes** » Sat Apr 4, 2020 4:22 am

clyde21 wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:if the season is canceled should all the teams be added to the lottery?

why? the lottery was already pretty much set before the season was suspended...what would have changed if the season continued?

well with no playoffs its a lost season for over half the league, throwing everyone in the lottery would make it possible for some value to be gained.

i can see why the teams already in the lottery wouldn't like it though

clyde21 · Post #456 » by **clyde21** » Sat Apr 4, 2020 4:27 am

HeadtopChunes wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:if the season is canceled should all the teams be added to the lottery?

why? the lottery was already pretty much set before the season was suspended...what would have changed if the season continued?

well with no playoffs its a lost season for over half the league, throwing everyone in the lottery would make it possible for some value to be gained.

i can see why the teams already in the lottery wouldn't like it though

either way half the league would be pissed

HeadtopChunes · Post #457 » by **HeadtopChunes** » Sat Apr 4, 2020 4:29 am

clyde21 wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
why? the lottery was already pretty much set before the season was suspended...what would have changed if the season continued?

well with no playoffs its a lost season for over half the league, throwing everyone in the lottery would make it possible for some value to be gained.

i can see why the teams already in the lottery wouldn't like it though

either way half the league would be pissed

there's probably a compromise somewhere regarding the lottery odds, ie, keep it mostly the same but give 14 seed odds to every playoff team.

but yeah nobody coming out of this COVID thing happy, the paycuts and layoffs have already started...

clyde21 · Post #458 » by **clyde21** » Sat Apr 4, 2020 4:31 am

HeadtopChunes wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:
well with no playoffs its a lost season for over half the league, throwing everyone in the lottery would make it possible for some value to be gained.

i can see why the teams already in the lottery wouldn't like it though

either way half the league would be pissed

there's probably a compromise somewhere regarding the lottery odds, ie, keep it mostly the same but give 14 seed odds to every playoff team.

but yeah nobody coming out of this COVID thing happy, the paycuts and layoffs have already started...

maybe you can do a tournament in a couple of months for all the teams that are in the playoffs today or something to come out with a champion, just a quick 3 day tourney or something

at the end of the day no one is happy with what happened here but we all gotta deal with it

Stillwater · Post #459 » by **Stillwater** » Sat Apr 4, 2020 4:49 am

If all teams were willing to agree the record when the season stopped is acceptable then you do the 14 team lottery same as normal and instead of 15- 30 being by record those 16 teams are given lottery odds for picks 15-20 lottery picked and 21-30 by record with the second lottery performed for the playoff teams.
This could mean some team at 27 by record picks 16th on a long shot lottery draw but most likely the team at 16 stays 15-20.
Or they could just tell everyone to stay home.

getrichordie · Post #460 » by **getrichordie** » Sat Apr 4, 2020 9:07 am

Abdoulaye N'Doye. This is the guy I want OKC to draft. If we can move up into the early 2nd, I would be ecstatic to have this guy.

Knicks fans...

#25 + #51 + Diallo + 2023 2nd swap

for

#27 and #38 + Dotson?