Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II

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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#121 » by getrichordie » Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:59 am

azcatz11 wrote:Here is the downside...and I'm just playing devils advocate and don't necessarily agree with all of this

- Lose college experience
- Ability to get exposed. Prob less likely in the NCAA
- Better NBA intel re training habits, game, etc. Can work against like the above

If you're a top guy and are 100% confident and don't really care about the college experience, there probably aren't any downsides. But there is certainly more risk to this path for the very top guys even though they're clearing $500k.

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree if you'd like


Why is there more risk? I just can’t see how there is MORE risk here... less risk, in my opinion...
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#122 » by Marcus » Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:01 am

azcatz11 wrote:Here is the downside...and I'm just playing devils advocate and don't necessarily agree with all of this

- Lose college experience
- Ability to get exposed. Prob less likely in the NCAA
- Better NBA intel re training habits, game, etc. Can work against like the above

If you're a top guy and are 100% confident and don't really care about the college experience, there probably aren't any downsides. But there is certainly more risk to this path for the very top guys even though they're clearing $500k.

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree if you'd like


All valid and thank you for presenting this perspective because I'm sure it's one that will be had by traditionalist. I think only the kids that aren't sure about the strides they've made in their game will be the hesitant ones. For the most part guys have an understanding of what they're capable of and enough confidence to see it through. I can also see the kids with family ties i.e. Cade, Mobley, going the college route due to that. Lastly I think this 21 class is abnormal in a way in terms of high level talent. You got 7 to as much as 10 kids where this move could make sense and be a successful move. I don't think this happens each class.

Knowing your game and how it could translate should be an important factor too I think in terms of avoiding exposure, the college and pro game are very different. A kid like Jalen likely translates better to a wide open game than he would to a more forced half court setting. Where a kid like Vern Carey likely benefits from looking as good as he did in a college setting.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#123 » by azcatz11 » Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:11 am

getrichordie wrote:
azcatz11 wrote:Here is the downside...and I'm just playing devils advocate and don't necessarily agree with all of this

- Lose college experience
- Ability to get exposed. Prob less likely in the NCAA
- Better NBA intel re training habits, game, etc. Can work against like the above

If you're a top guy and are 100% confident and don't really care about the college experience, there probably aren't any downsides. But there is certainly more risk to this path for the very top guys even though they're clearing $500k.

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree if you'd like


Why is there more risk? I just can’t see how there is MORE risk here... less risk, in my opinion...


It's more of an upside risk. NBA teams draft on potential and if they have more knowledge on a players' habits it could be a detriment. And also because these guys will be competing against other top guys which could hurt their stock (credit the poster on the GB, I forget his name)

I see both sides, curious how this plays out over the next few years
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#124 » by azcatz11 » Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:16 am

Marcus wrote:
azcatz11 wrote:Here is the downside...and I'm just playing devils advocate and don't necessarily agree with all of this

- Lose college experience
- Ability to get exposed. Prob less likely in the NCAA
- Better NBA intel re training habits, game, etc. Can work against like the above

If you're a top guy and are 100% confident and don't really care about the college experience, there probably aren't any downsides. But there is certainly more risk to this path for the very top guys even though they're clearing $500k.

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree if you'd like


All valid and thank you for presenting this perspective because I'm sure it's one that will be had by traditionalist. I think only the kids that aren't sure about the strides they've made in their game will be the hesitant ones. For the most part guys have an understanding of what they're capable of and enough confidence to see it through. I can also see the kids with family ties i.e. Cade, Mobley, going the college route due to that. Lastly I think this 21 class is abnormal in a way in terms of high level talent. You got 7 to as much as 10 kids where this move could make sense and be a successful move. I don't think this happens each class.

Knowing your game and how it could translate should be an important factor too I think in terms of avoiding exposure, the college and pro game are very different. A kid like Jalen likely translates better to a wide open game than he would to a more forced half court setting. Where a kid like Vern Carey likely benefits from looking as good as he did in a college setting.


I think this nails it. Does Carey even get drafted if he's playing in the up tempo game? Wiseman shutting it down earned him millions...
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#125 » by getrichordie » Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:23 am

azcatz11 wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
azcatz11 wrote:Here is the downside...and I'm just playing devils advocate and don't necessarily agree with all of this

- Lose college experience
- Ability to get exposed. Prob less likely in the NCAA
- Better NBA intel re training habits, game, etc. Can work against like the above

If you're a top guy and are 100% confident and don't really care about the college experience, there probably aren't any downsides. But there is certainly more risk to this path for the very top guys even though they're clearing $500k.

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree if you'd like


Why is there more risk? I just can’t see how there is MORE risk here... less risk, in my opinion...


It's more of an upside risk. NBA teams draft on potential and if they have more knowledge on a players' habits it could be a detriment. And also because these guys will be competing against other top guys which could hurt their stock (credit the poster on the GB, I forget his name)

I see both sides, curious how this plays out over the next few years


I don’t know if you would say better intel is a bad thing, if it is better intel. Teams do their homework on prospects whether it’s a high school prospect, a college prospect, or an overseas guy so I don’t know that the “better intel” thing holds much water.

You could also argue that teams would rather go with the devil they know rather than the devil they don’t.

And kids get a gtd. $500k + $125k towards college so they don’t lose out on college experience if they do not want to. It’s better to have an option than not to have one. Also, the “college experience” can be detrimental to a student-athlete that doesn’t have any real guidance or mentor-ship.

I just know that if I was a college athlete that wasn’t from a super wealthy family, I’m taking the $500k alllllll dayyyyyy. I mean, kids are one injury away from having all their hard work earn them $0.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#126 » by azcatz11 » Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:35 am

getrichordie wrote:
azcatz11 wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
Why is there more risk? I just can’t see how there is MORE risk here... less risk, in my opinion...


It's more of an upside risk. NBA teams draft on potential and if they have more knowledge on a players' habits it could be a detriment. And also because these guys will be competing against other top guys which could hurt their stock (credit the poster on the GB, I forget his name)

I see both sides, curious how this plays out over the next few years


I don’t know if you would say better intel is a bad thing, if it is better intel. Teams do their homework on prospects whether it’s a high school prospect, a college prospect, or an overseas guy so I don’t know that the “better intel” thing holds much water.

You could also argue that teams would rather go with the devil they know rather than the devil they don’t.

And kids get a gtd. $500k + $125k towards college so they don’t lose out on college experience if they do not want to. It’s better to have an option than not to have one. Also, the “college experience” can be detrimental to a student-athlete that doesn’t have any real guidance or mentor-ship.

I just know that if I was a college athlete that wasn’t from a super wealthy family, I’m taking the $500k alllllll dayyyyyy. I mean, kids are one injury away from having all their hard work earn them $0.


the 500K is very appealing. I think this will cause huge waves for sure. Teams can do their homework but it's not the same as being an in-house player. The money in the NCAA has certainly dried up. The days of Arizona players receiving $10k a month are gone
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#127 » by Sea2003 » Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:39 am

azcatz11 wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
azcatz11 wrote:
It's more of an upside risk. NBA teams draft on potential and if they have more knowledge on a players' habits it could be a detriment. And also because these guys will be competing against other top guys which could hurt their stock (credit the poster on the GB, I forget his name)

I see both sides, curious how this plays out over the next few years


I don’t know if you would say better intel is a bad thing, if it is better intel. Teams do their homework on prospects whether it’s a high school prospect, a college prospect, or an overseas guy so I don’t know that the “better intel” thing holds much water.

You could also argue that teams would rather go with the devil they know rather than the devil they don’t.

And kids get a gtd. $500k + $125k towards college so they don’t lose out on college experience if they do not want to. It’s better to have an option than not to have one. Also, the “college experience” can be detrimental to a student-athlete that doesn’t have any real guidance or mentor-ship.

I just know that if I was a college athlete that wasn’t from a super wealthy family, I’m taking the $500k alllllll dayyyyyy. I mean, kids are one injury away from having all their hard work earn them $0.


the 500K is very appealing. I think this will cause huge waves for sure. Teams can do their homework but it's not the same as being an in-house player. The money in the NCAA has certainly dried up. The days of Arizona players receiving $10k a month are gone


The truth is most of these kids aren't rich. So in their viewpoint why play one year in college where you could conceivably get hurt and be left with nothing to gain from it? The thing is, most of these kids are going this route purely from a financial outlook. I think going forward this is gonna be much better option than removing the OAD rule.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#128 » by akhan786 » Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:03 am

HeadtopChunes wrote:Yeah it’s a pretty great deal honestly. Looks like Isaiah Todd just joined too.

$500k
Team in Socal meant specifically for development ( not part of gleague ecosystem but will play exhibition games erc)
Full Ride scholarship

I don’t see why any top prospect should turn that down.


If the NBA is smart, they try to get 6-8 of the top kids and make it a huge event where each new kid “gets chosen”.

And all of these kids live on a campus somewhere like US Soccer did for a decade or so with the Bradenton Academy that produced Landon Donovan.

Add a Nike Academy-level video production team and you might have something that could be more enticing to young ballers and could potentially be better for their brand long term than college.

The obvious question though that is unique to our labor laws...is this child labor? That’s why this is such a confusing and complicated situation in the United States specifically.

Is the NBA the only private business that gets to do this? Does the NBA own these kids contractually like the International soccer model?

Are all these questions a waste of time because we’re arguing about an imaginary word - “amateurism”? And if we don’t adapt, are we providing a lesser environment to develop our American athlete prodigies compared to the rest of the world (ie Doncic playing professionally since 16)? Do sports even matter? lol
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#129 » by clyde21 » Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:05 am

if your ultimate goal is the NBA and developing enough for the NBA, I don't think there is a downside here with the new structure, instead of going to college and spending half your time going to BS classes and getting distracted by college parties, you'll already be in a pseudo NBA environment from the get go, make real cash and spend 100% of your time preparing for the NBA immediately

the downside is less on the basketball court and more just missing out on the college experience, but for 500K if you're Jalen Green or Isaiah Todd who cares lol
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#130 » by GimmeDat » Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:27 am

With 500K in the bank you can definitely party harder than in college if you wanted to anyway, lol

My question is, will these NBA Academy teams or watered down/junior 'national teams' provide any level of challenge? I tend to doubt it.

On top of that, they're all meaningless exhibition games. I get it, it's a means to an end for these guys where they go for development, but I feel like being in a truly pro environment in meaningful, high stakes games would be a better environment to get the most out of them.

I think that's the downside compared to the NBL.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#131 » by MemphisX » Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:05 am

Getting immediate feedback on your game from nba decision makers is huge. Not having to worry about class and the ncaa/college limitations on working out with a coach. Plus getting to actually get used as you would in the nba is big even for guys who are odd fits like Carey. I mean, nba teams would more than likely assume you can’t do something if you have never done it.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#132 » by Fischella » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:47 pm

AZ is putting together a really weird team for Sean Miller to coach (?)

Williams-Kriisa
Brown-Akinjo
Baker-Terry
Lee-Mathurin
Brown-Koloko

small guards overall, shooting, dynamism, very little in terms of size inside, pretty confused :-?
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#133 » by Fischella » Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:20 pm

I hope Kentucky gets Haarms, it'd actually give them a pretty nicely balanced roster if BJ can impact their offense as much as I think he will

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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#134 » by DirtyDez » Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:46 am

Fischella wrote:AZ is putting together a really weird team for Sean Miller to coach (?)

Williams-Kriisa
Brown-Akinjo
Baker-Terry
Lee-Mathurin
Brown-Koloko

small guards overall, shooting, dynamism, very little in terms of size inside, pretty confused :-?


Brandon Williams has a condition where he can’t receive blood flow to cartilage in his knee. If he plays again I think he’ll be very limited. I like Mathurin a lot and think he starts at the 3.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#135 » by NO-KG-AI » Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:26 pm

I think college as this learning experience, "Best days of our lives" romanticized movie-like dream is a middle/upper class thing. I don't think most of the lower class and people from impoverished backgrounds view college as anything more than a means to getting out of poverty, and almost every guy who can skip it and be successful and lucrative is going to do it.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#136 » by andyhop » Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:40 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:I think college as this learning experience, "Best days of our lives" romanticized movie-like dream is a middle/upper class thing. I don't think most of the lower class and people from impoverished backgrounds view college as anything more than a means to getting out of poverty, and almost every guy who can skip it and be successful and lucrative is going to do it.


I think the NCAA changes coming make this G League experiment a very short lived affair.

Once they can earn in college why wouldn't you go raise your profile , get better endorsement opportunities and actually play meaningful games.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#137 » by clyde21 » Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:28 am

andyhop wrote:
NO-KG-AI wrote:I think college as this learning experience, "Best days of our lives" romanticized movie-like dream is a middle/upper class thing. I don't think most of the lower class and people from impoverished backgrounds view college as anything more than a means to getting out of poverty, and almost every guy who can skip it and be successful and lucrative is going to do it.


I think the NCAA changes coming make this G League experiment a very short lived affair.

Once they can earn in college why wouldn't you go raise your profile , get better endorsement opportunities and actually play meaningful games.


doubt whatever they make in college for a 1 yr will come close to 500K, plus you still have to attend classes and deal with regular college BS, while in the G League you can focus 100% on your development

all the serious top tier recruits will still choose the G League IMO if Green/Todd prove there is a legit path there
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#138 » by andyhop » Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:29 am

clyde21 wrote:
doubt whatever they make in college for a 1 yr will come close to 500K, plus you still have to attend classes and deal with regular college BS, while in the G League you can focus 100% on your development

all the serious top tier recruits will still choose the G League IMO if Green/Todd prove there is a legit path there


Nike and Adidas are going to steer these kids to college , the Duke or Kentucky point guard is worth a lot more to them than a guy who is going to be invisible for a year.

Some guys will as you say not want to go to college and the G League may suit them but I doubt it ever comes to be normal once college athletes can earn money legally.

I am also not sure that the program will even continue once players can profit from their image in college given the suggestion that it was only implemented to stop NBA teams having to scout players in Australia. Once they have a reasonable avenue to earn money in the US the appeal of the NBL will likely fade removing the NBA's problem
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#139 » by clyde21 » Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:12 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#140 » by Marcus » Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:14 pm

clyde21 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Best bet. Never was super impressed with his game.
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