Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II

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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#221 » by MemphisX » Sat Mar 27, 2021 2:03 pm

Is Emoni Bates going to reclassify?
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#222 » by clyde21 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:58 pm

Fischella wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:I think this is Roy Williams really struggles with top tier recruits

When is the last time that Roy had a top tier recruit, let's be real man


guys like Cole and Nas don't count?
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#223 » by Duke4life831 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:07 pm

Fischella wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:I think this is Roy Williams really struggles with top tier recruits

When is the last time that Roy had a top tier recruit, let's be real man


Cole Anthony
Nassir Little
Justin Jackson
James Michael McAdoo
Harrison Barnes

Those are all of the top 10 recruits of the last decade Roy has gotten. All of them saw their draft stock plummet at UNC. I will say Cole is the one that really is pretty different, he was given a pretty long leash but was just bad. Those are just the top 10 guys, the list gets a lot longer if we drop it down to top 15 guys.

Coby White is kind of the only freshman to come into UNC and bump up his draft stock. Maybe Tony Bradley a little. I mean I dont think Im being too much of a Duke homer to say Roy and elite freshman talent haven't really meshed all that well over the last decade.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#224 » by peZt » Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:57 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
Fischella wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:I think this is Roy Williams really struggles with top tier recruits

When is the last time that Roy had a top tier recruit, let's be real man


Cole Anthony
Nassir Little
Justin Jackson
James Michael McAdoo
Harrison Barnes

Those are all of the top 10 recruits of the last decade Roy has gotten. All of them saw their draft stock plummet at UNC. I will say Cole is the one that really is pretty different, he was given a pretty long leash but was just bad. Those are just the top 10 guys, the list gets a lot longer if we drop it down to top 15 guys.

Coby White is kind of the only freshman to come into UNC and bump up his draft stock. Maybe Tony Bradley a little. I mean I dont think Im being too much of a Duke homer to say Roy and elite freshman talent haven't really meshed all that well over the last decade.


Are they really elite? Just because they've been ranked at the top? It's not Roy Williams' fault when high school rankings are **** and hyped up High School players turn out to be trash. You could blame him for not scouting properly and recognizing that they are overhyped- But not for his coaching. He didn't make them bad or plummet their stock. They were bad in the first place
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#225 » by clyde21 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:59 pm

peZt wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Fischella wrote:When is the last time that Roy had a top tier recruit, let's be real man


Cole Anthony
Nassir Little
Justin Jackson
James Michael McAdoo
Harrison Barnes

Those are all of the top 10 recruits of the last decade Roy has gotten. All of them saw their draft stock plummet at UNC. I will say Cole is the one that really is pretty different, he was given a pretty long leash but was just bad. Those are just the top 10 guys, the list gets a lot longer if we drop it down to top 15 guys.

Coby White is kind of the only freshman to come into UNC and bump up his draft stock. Maybe Tony Bradley a little. I mean I dont think Im being too much of a Duke homer to say Roy and elite freshman talent haven't really meshed all that well over the last decade.


Are they really elite? Just because they've been ranked at the top? It's not Roy Williams' fault when high school rankings are **** and hyped up High School players turn out to be trash. You could blame him for not scouting properly and recognizing that they are overhyped- But not for his coaching. He didn't make them bad or plummet their stock. They were bad in the first place


lol, so they were all just ranked incorrectly?

people on this board LOVED Cole and Nas coming out of HS, btw, including Fisch who now will pretend he didn't.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#226 » by Fischella » Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:47 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
Fischella wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:I think this is Roy Williams really struggles with top tier recruits

When is the last time that Roy had a top tier recruit, let's be real man


Cole Anthony
Nassir Little
Justin Jackson
James Michael McAdoo
Harrison Barnes

Those are all of the top 10 recruits of the last decade Roy has gotten. All of them saw their draft stock plummet at UNC. I will say Cole is the one that really is pretty different, he was given a pretty long leash but was just bad. Those are just the top 10 guys, the list gets a lot longer if we drop it down to top 15 guys.

Coby White is kind of the only freshman to come into UNC and bump up his draft stock. Maybe Tony Bradley a little. I mean I dont think Im being too much of a Duke homer to say Roy and elite freshman talent haven't really meshed all that well over the last decade.

None of those guys were stud talents and that showed after the fact, their stock would have plummeted anywhere, they were just massively overrated by HS ranks it happens, talking about them as if they were hot **** is just ridiculous, they were never good, Roy or not Roy

They def don't count, guys regularly improve their stock at UNC, I am talking mid-level ranked guys and 4 stars
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#227 » by Fischella » Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:49 am

clyde21 wrote:lol, so they were all just ranked incorrectly?

people on this board LOVED Cole and Nas coming out of HS, btw, including Fisch who now will pretend he didn't.

yes, other than Cole they were ranked incorrectly, I was wrong on Nas and I ranked Cole borderline lotto, I loved him out of HS but not in his draft class

also putting Justin Jackson in that list by Duke is just ridiculous, Jackson improved his stock at UNC, not the opposite

You guys are being so facetious
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#228 » by jman3134 » Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:39 am

Roy Williams' player development is known to be terrible. He plays a very specific style and players are forced into that box, instead of molding his style to the players he is recruiting; or, alternatively, making in-game adjustments.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#229 » by Coeur » Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:47 am

North Carolina should try to steal Jay Wright
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#230 » by Fischella » Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:48 am

jman3134 wrote:Roy Williams' player development is known to be terrible. He plays a very specific style and players are forced into that box, instead of molding his style to the players he is recruiting; or, alternatively, making in-game adjustments.

lmao, Roy has slipped like everybody but he has the best track record developing guys that stay out of all the blue blood coaches by a lot

sure he is not flexible, neither are K, nor Cal, and a whole lot of college coaches

Roy is flawed, but the arguments used against him are just wrong from the basics, if anything be harsh on him for being bad at identifying talent at HS levels
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#231 » by peZt » Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:37 pm

clyde21 wrote:
peZt wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Cole Anthony
Nassir Little
Justin Jackson
James Michael McAdoo
Harrison Barnes

Those are all of the top 10 recruits of the last decade Roy has gotten. All of them saw their draft stock plummet at UNC. I will say Cole is the one that really is pretty different, he was given a pretty long leash but was just bad. Those are just the top 10 guys, the list gets a lot longer if we drop it down to top 15 guys.

Coby White is kind of the only freshman to come into UNC and bump up his draft stock. Maybe Tony Bradley a little. I mean I dont think Im being too much of a Duke homer to say Roy and elite freshman talent haven't really meshed all that well over the last decade.


Are they really elite? Just because they've been ranked at the top? It's not Roy Williams' fault when high school rankings are **** and hyped up High School players turn out to be trash. You could blame him for not scouting properly and recognizing that they are overhyped- But not for his coaching. He didn't make them bad or plummet their stock. They were bad in the first place


lol, so they were all just ranked incorrectly?

people on this board LOVED Cole and Nas coming out of HS, btw, including Fisch who now will pretend he didn't.


You act like players are always ranked accordingly coming from High School. Just look at 2012, it's full of busts
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2012/view/super60/sort/rank/order/true

Players don't forget how to play Basketball in a year. Roy Williams didn't suck every last drop of Basketball skill out of their bodys for them to never recover. Some people are injured for 2 years and come back close to their old level. But High School kids will forever lose all of their Basketball skills just because they played under Roy Williams for a year?
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#232 » by jman3134 » Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:39 pm

peZt wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
peZt wrote:
Are they really elite? Just because they've been ranked at the top? It's not Roy Williams' fault when high school rankings are **** and hyped up High School players turn out to be trash. You could blame him for not scouting properly and recognizing that they are overhyped- But not for his coaching. He didn't make them bad or plummet their stock. They were bad in the first place


lol, so they were all just ranked incorrectly?

people on this board LOVED Cole and Nas coming out of HS, btw, including Fisch who now will pretend he didn't.


You act like players are always ranked accordingly coming from High School. Just look at 2012, it's full of busts
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2012/view/super60/sort/rank/order/true

Players don't forget how to play Basketball in a year. Roy Williams didn't suck every last drop of Basketball skill out of their bodys for them to never recover. Some people are injured for 2 years and come back close to their old level. But High School kids will forever lose all of their Basketball skills just because they played under Roy Williams for a year?



How does this support your argument? 'Because an entire class was bad.....let's give Roy a pass.'

Fwiw, Coach K is also terrible at player development of his cursory players, but probably not to the extent of Roy.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#233 » by clyde21 » Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:03 pm

Fischella wrote:
jman3134 wrote:Roy Williams' player development is known to be terrible. He plays a very specific style and players are forced into that box, instead of molding his style to the players he is recruiting; or, alternatively, making in-game adjustments.

lmao, Roy has slipped like everybody but he has the best track record developing guys that stay out of all the blue blood coaches by a lot

sure he is not flexible, neither are K, nor Cal, and a whole lot of college coaches

Roy is flawed
, but the arguments used against him are just wrong from the basics, if anything be harsh on him for being bad at identifying talent at HS levels


that's literally what everyone is saying, so you agree but disagreeing at the same time. nice.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#234 » by Fischella » Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:17 am

jman3134 wrote:
Fwiw, Coach K is also terrible at player development of his cursory players, but probably not to the extent of Roy.

you must not follow college bball, Roy has many more cases of guys who improved their stocks uunder him than K
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#235 » by jman3134 » Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:21 am

Fischella wrote:
jman3134 wrote:
Fwiw, Coach K is also terrible at player development of his cursory players, but probably not to the extent of Roy.

you must not follow college bball, Roy has many more cases of guys who improved their stocks uunder him than K


Re-read what I wrote. Please. Is a cursory player an NBA prospect? I was trying to give you something.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#236 » by jman3134 » Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:29 am

Fischella wrote:
jman3134 wrote:Roy Williams' player development is known to be terrible. He plays a very specific style and players are forced into that box, instead of molding his style to the players he is recruiting; or, alternatively, making in-game adjustments.

lmao, Roy has slipped like everybody but he has the best track record developing guys that stay out of all the blue blood coaches by a lot

sure he is not flexible, neither are K, nor Cal, and a whole lot of college coaches

Roy is flawed, but the arguments used against him are just wrong from the basics, if anything be harsh on him for being bad at identifying talent at HS levels


I am impressed by Brice Johnson and Marcus Paige's NBA stats. Justin Jackson and .... in the last 10 years? And, no, he isn't even in the conversation with someone like Jay Wright (when he does decide to recruit upper echelon talent), Mark Few, Bill Self. And honestly, I don't like Self's player development in the last 4 years or so.

Love Leaky Black's development.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#237 » by clyde21 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:25 am

so regarding Zags next year, assumption is Suggs/Kispert/Ayayi are leaving, everyone else returning

adding Sallis and Chet to the roster (+ any transfer), next year's team might be just as good, it's absurd.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#238 » by nolang1 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:48 am

MemphisX wrote:Is Emoni Bates going to reclassify?


I would assume so. The real question is whether he's going to be at Michigan St. or the G league next year.

Duke4life831 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:Gonzaga is in that sweet spot right now from a college fan perspective. This reminds me of Duke in the early 2010s. Gonzaga is in that nice sweet spot of having a team built around damn good 3-4 year players, then one elite freshman tossed in. Kind of like the 2011 Duke team when they had Kyrie Irving tossed in with Nolan Smith, Kyle Singler, Mason Plumlee, Ryan Kelly and so on.

Dont ge me wrong I loved that 2015 championship team and I really enjoyed that Zion young team. But man I loved how that 2011 Duke team was built, very curious what they couldve done without that Kyrie injury.

This year's Gonzaga team reminds me of that kind of roster. Just speaking from a college basketball fan perspective, those are my favorite teams to watch. Sallis is going to fit in very well with Gonzaga.


yea, I think that really should've been their model, but UK and Duke just ended up hoarding all the top recruits and started trottin out like 4/5 freshmen and it's been all downhill from there


K and Cal just stopped being college coaches. They became full-time recruiters, that is it. No more development for the non stars. It just became make way for the new 4-5 incoming freshmen, everyone else on the team kind of just figure it out or transfer. Then I think both guys felt like they had such a talent advantage, just roll the ball out there and let the talent advantage be the thing that wins the game.

Ive been watching Suggs all year with this Gonzaga team and thinking to myself, this is essentially the 2011 Duke team. This is how the top tier college programs should be doing it. Its a perfect mix of elite 3-4 year college players mixed with an elite freshman NBA prospect. And you got an elite coach that knows how to handle that balance perfectly. Where Suggs isnt being lost in the system (I think this is Roy Williams really struggles with top tier recruits), but he also isnt this overwhelming force that crushes the system. Few is doing a great job at showing Suggs skills off, while also coaching his team to win. Huge fan of this Gonzaga team.


Coach K has been lacking as a coach for 15+ years but just had Nike give him a major shot in the arm recruiting-wise when they made him the national team coach; Duke would've dropped off much worse with 3-4 year players. With all these blue blood schools I think it's just the natural conclusion of the very top recruits having other options (put Kuminga on Duke this year and they're pretty easily a top 10 team) and other schools having coaches who have embraced a more analytic approach which is harder to beat on talent alone when playing 1980s style basketball.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#239 » by Fischella » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:43 pm

clyde21 wrote:so regarding Zags next year, assumption is Suggs/Kispert/Ayayi are leaving, everyone else returning

adding Sallis and Chet to the roster (+ any transfer), next year's team might be just as good, it's absurd.

I think Timme is going to go too, no reason to stay, Nembhard also wanted to leave last year already, so possible that he is gone too but sounds like he could stay and attempt to be the star and aim for a 1st round selection in 2022

They need to bring in some Guard transfers, as it stands now I'd have them with;

Nembhard-Harris
Sallis-Arlauskas
Strawther-Gregg
Watson-Perry
*Holmgren-Ballo-Zakharov

Obviously Gregg isn't a SF just now and I expect them to get a couple backcourt transfers and maybe a couple of bigs leaving (Ballo, and Zakharov the main candidates, maybe european route for them like Petrusev did)

Maybe Aaron Cook comes back for a 5th year
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#240 » by clyde21 » Thu Apr 1, 2021 2:51 pm

andddddddd Roy Williams is gone
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