Vernon Carey Jr

BostonCouchGM · Post #1 » by **BostonCouchGM** » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:48 pm

I don't see many mention this kid despite the fact that he's putting up good numbers for a rare, talent depleted Duke squad. He's got a dozen double doubles, a 30 point game, a huge frame with nimble feet, nice touch around the basket, good passer and court awareness. I can imagine him getting in better shape, improving his athleticism and being a really solid big in the NBA especially if he develops a three pointer. I see no reason why he can't be like Sabonis. For a potential lottery pick, if not top 10 pick, he gets little to no buzz. It reminds me how everyone slept on SGA, Adebayo and White these past few years.

King Ken · Post #2 » by **King Ken** » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:40 pm

Sabonis is his comparison but unlike Sabonis, I would like him to shed about 10-15 pounds. 260-265 would be a great NBA weight for him.

Nazrmohamed · Post #3 » by **Nazrmohamed** » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:09 am

King Ken wrote:Sabonis is his comparison but unlike Sabonis, I would like him to shed about 10-15 pounds. 260-265 would be a great NBA weight for him.

Would make a world of difference if he wants to excel at the next level. I thought Kevin Love was great at UCLA and his transformation during the draft process was impressive. And even then to what he looks like now. Guys are running and shooting threes. Gotta keep up to survive

Post #4 » by **Ruzious** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:43 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:I don't see many mention this kid despite the fact that he's putting up good numbers for a rare, talent depleted Duke squad. He's got a dozen double doubles, a 30 point game, a huge frame with nimble feet, nice touch around the basket, good passer and court awareness. I can imagine him getting in better shape, improving his athleticism and being a really solid big in the NBA especially if he develops a three pointer. I see no reason why he can't be like Sabonis. For a potential lottery pick, if not top 10 pick, he gets little to no buzz. It reminds me how everyone slept on SGA, Adebayo and White these past few years.

The ESPN mock had him 29th - which seems a bit crazy to me. Do folks here think Isaiah Stewart is a better prospect than Carey?

Post #5 » by **Duke4life831** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:22 pm

The game has just passed him by. Looks like a great rim protector when he gets to sit in the paint and just swat at tiny guards, but when he has to leave the paint and guard the PnR or out on the perimeter it gets ugly. He has good feet but slow feet, so I dont see much potential on the defensive end. Offensively he is a nice jack of all trades when it comes to scoring, but he lacks any kind of facilitating gene in him. One of the things that makes Sabonis a really good big in today's game is his ability to facilitate, he has a great feel and understanding of the game.

Vernon is not a starting big in today's NBA.

clyde21 · Post #6 » by **clyde21** » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:13 pm

i think he has a role as a 3rd or 4th big off the bench but I don't see the dynamic game offensively or defensively to really earn a long term starting position IMO, he's gonna struggle more in NBA's space too on the defensive end

King Ken · Post #7 » by **King Ken** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:00 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:The game has just passed him by. Looks like a great rim protector when he gets to sit in the paint and just swat at tiny guards, but when he has to leave the paint and guard the PnR or out on the perimeter it gets ugly. He has good feet but slow feet, so I dont see much potential on the defensive end. Offensively he is a nice jack of all trades when it comes to scoring, but he lacks any kind of facilitating gene in him. One of the things that makes Sabonis a really good big in today's game is his ability to facilitate, he has a great feel and understanding of the game.

Vernon is not a starting big in today's NBA.

The biggest mistake you are making is comparing All Star Sabonis to prospect Sabonis. Sabonis massively improved compared to what I seen in college. Prospect Sabonis wasn't that good to me for the NBA. Not much different than Carey Jr. Truth be told, Carey is better.

No-Man · Post #8 » by **No-Man** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:03 pm

I think Carey is a worse athlete than Domas, plays with less force and he is a worse passer (has some flashes but Domas was way better)

Carey is somewhat in the Kanter-Sabonis spectrum, just not sure if he gets to clear the threshold to be valuable, Domas cuts it, does a guy who is 75% as good cut it enough? I just doubt it

kobyz · Post #9 » by **kobyz** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:30 pm

Reminds me more of Nicola Vucevic

King Ken · Post #10 » by **King Ken** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:50 pm

Nurkic considering his likeliness of being a drop big scheme wise potentially.

No-Man · Post #11 » by **No-Man** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:53 pm

Nurkic is just way more nimble and mobile, he was bigger and moved better as a prospect, he is also more athletic and has better feel

TPV · Post #12 » by **TPV** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:27 pm

I see him as a guy whose scoring success in college won't necessarily translate against in an NBA that focuses on speed and outside shooting. He'll have to carve out a role for himself based on him being good vs. fitting into a big man role in the modern NBA. And that will be an uphill battle seeing as he doesn't have a calling card of an elite skill.

Seeing as most mocks have him going in the late 20s, I think that's the right area for teams to pick him up. There's an NBA player there, but he'll need to be a more consistent three point shooter to stay in a rotation.

CptCrunch · Post #13 » by **CptCrunch** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:35 pm

Very little star potential and old back to the post play style.

Don't know if teams are keep are drafting good role players in the lotto. Might be a mid-d to late first rounder for a team trying to get a starting PF/C.

BostonCouchGM · Post #14 » by **BostonCouchGM** » Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:05 am

It is amusing how people write off 18 y/o on here. Sabonis was putting up 10-7 with terrible defense as an 18 y/o at Gonzaga. Somehow he was able to develop as a sophomore and then over several years in the NBA making himself into an all-star. Yet, the five star recruit Carey Jr. putting up 18-11 with decent defense at Duke can't possibly be the next Sabonis. Okay

100proof · Post #15 » by **100proof** » Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:15 pm

I like Carey, he has some work to do, but I think he can do it.

He has already showed excellent improvement during his time at Duke and playing with some NBA bodies will go a long way.

Sure, he is not going to be Zion, KAT or Davis or some new hybrid of transcendent bigman,but he is

excellent around the rim
excellent rebounder
Excellent at getting to the line
range out to 3pt line
can handle a little(improving)
can pass a little(improving)
Can defend the post

He has solid size at 6foot11, not a huge wingspan, not the most athletic but he knows how to play within that. And athleticism is not always the be all end all. He needs to have a better eating plan and drop 10 or 15 pounds and the athleticism, perimeter defense and quickness will improve.

For mid first round pick he is a low risk choice imo, with a potential of a very high ceiling.

clyde21 · Post #16 » by **clyde21** » Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:32 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:It is amusing how people write off 18 y/o on here. Sabonis was putting up 10-7 with terrible defense as an 18 y/o at Gonzaga. Somehow he was able to develop as a sophomore and then over several years in the NBA making himself into an all-star. Yet, the five star recruit Carey Jr. putting up 18-11 with decent defense at Duke can't possibly be the next Sabonis. Okay

because Sabonis' development was not linear and isn't projectable on anyone else, yes Carey Jr. can be as good as Sabonis or better if he becomes one of the best passing and playmaking C in the league...can you confirm that he will?

BostonCouchGM · Post #17 » by **BostonCouchGM** » Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:42 am

clyde21 wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:It is amusing how people write off 18 y/o on here. Sabonis was putting up 10-7 with terrible defense as an 18 y/o at Gonzaga. Somehow he was able to develop as a sophomore and then over several years in the NBA making himself into an all-star. Yet, the five star recruit Carey Jr. putting up 18-11 with decent defense at Duke can't possibly be the next Sabonis. Okay

because Sabonis' development was not linear and isn't projectable on anyone else, yes Carey Jr. can be as good as Sabonis or better if he becomes one of the best passing and playmaking C in the league...can you confirm that he will?

nope, and since he's just 18 y/o I'm not prepared to write him off when he's better than Sabonis was at the same age yet everyone else seems ready to declare him a bum. It's funny. It's also funny how people chime in after one of his few bad games this season instead of the dozen double double performances.

Post #18 » by **Duke4life831** » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:09 am

100proof wrote:I like Carey, he has some work to do, but I think he can do it.

He has already showed excellent improvement during his time at Duke and playing with some NBA bodies will go a long way.

Sure, he is not going to be Zion, KAT or Davis or some new hybrid of transcendent bigman,but he is

excellent around the rim
excellent rebounder
Excellent at getting to the line
range out to 3pt line
can handle a little(improving)
can pass a little(improving)
Can defend the post

He has solid size at 6foot11, not a huge wingspan, not the most athletic but he knows how to play within that. And athleticism is not always the be all end all. He needs to have a better eating plan and drop 10 or 15 pounds and the athleticism, perimeter defense and quickness will improve.

For mid first round pick he is a low risk choice imo, with a potential of a very high ceiling.

He's actually gotten worse throughout the year.

First 14 games: 18/9 with 2 blocks on 63% shooting
Last 14 games: 17/8 with 1 block on 52% shooting

He's not excellent around the rim. He actually has the worst FG% around the rim for any of the recent Duke prospects that were bigs.

13.4 rebounds per 40 is good, but I wouldn't say excellent.

Is excellent at getting to the line. But he is a bad FT shooter.

37% on 0.7 attempts is okay for a big. But has a lot to work on when it comes to speeding up his shot, it is very slow.

He hasn't really shown any kind of handle and is as basic of a passer as it gets.

Okay defender when he gets to plant himself under the basket, horrible defender when trying to defend in space or the PnR.

There is nothing about his game that I like for the current NBA. No way I touch him with a 1st round pick and with a 2nd round pick, id rather use it on a raw athletic big that might be a little undersized or a euro big (if there are any in this draft).

Post #19 » by **Duke4life831** » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:11 am

BostonCouchGM wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:It is amusing how people write off 18 y/o on here. Sabonis was putting up 10-7 with terrible defense as an 18 y/o at Gonzaga. Somehow he was able to develop as a sophomore and then over several years in the NBA making himself into an all-star. Yet, the five star recruit Carey Jr. putting up 18-11 with decent defense at Duke can't possibly be the next Sabonis. Okay

because Sabonis' development was not linear and isn't projectable on anyone else, yes Carey Jr. can be as good as Sabonis or better if he becomes one of the best passing and playmaking C in the league...can you confirm that he will?

nope, and since he's just 18 y/o I'm not prepared to write him off when he's better than Sabonis was at the same age yet everyone else seems ready to declare him a bum. It's funny. It's also funny how people chime in after one of his few bad games this season instead of the dozen double double performances.

To be fair, people like Clyde, myself and many others have been low on Vernon even before the season began and weren't afraid to say it even when he was playing great. And this is coming from probably the most biased Duke fan on here (Ken may have a word on this though haha) .

BostonCouchGM · Post #20 » by **BostonCouchGM** » Sun Mar 1, 2020 6:34 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
because Sabonis' development was not linear and isn't projectable on anyone else, yes Carey Jr. can be as good as Sabonis or better if he becomes one of the best passing and playmaking C in the league...can you confirm that he will?

nope, and since he's just 18 y/o I'm not prepared to write him off when he's better than Sabonis was at the same age yet everyone else seems ready to declare him a bum. It's funny. It's also funny how people chime in after one of his few bad games this season instead of the dozen double double performances.

To be fair, people like Clyde, myself and many others have been low on Vernon even before the season began and weren't afraid to say it even when he was playing great. And this is coming from probably the most biased Duke fan on here (Ken may have a word on this though haha) .

another double double for Carey Jr. yesterday. This despite his team failing to deliver him the ball appropriately all game. I've felt this for awhile, Coach K is just average at this point. Carey Jr. is clearly not a finished product. And if he doesn't lose weight, get sculpted, and improve his quickness and urgency, he's going to be riding the pine at the next level. But you can't teach his size and skill. I've seen flashes of him, where he's motivated, and he impresses. It's because he has that potential he deserves to be taken in the mid to late 1st. It's not about what he is now which is my point, about how people give up on 18 y/o way too soon.