Aleksej Pokusevski

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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#241 » by nolang1 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:10 pm

I think the general point is that a player like Pokusevski could easily be less bad than a lot of rookies who look more NBA-ready from a physical perspective but don’t know how to play defense and throw up a bunch of bad shots.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#242 » by EvanZ » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:25 pm

King Ken wrote:KP was raw as hell one year but he went back to Europe, got taller and more skilled, and was a top 5 pick. Poku is just too raw at this stage.


Not trying to be political, but this is like when Ron DeSantis was saying "We hardly have any coronavirus here." Just wait.

I mean yeah he's "raw". Because he's 18. Not only is he 18, but if he was literally born 6 days later, he wouldn't even be eligible for this Draft. Sometimes you have to see the writing on the wall.

It's true there is only one Giannis, but the fact is there is a Giannis. There is precedent for picking out a guy at a lower level. Poku developed kind of late, so it's not really that suprising where he is. If he is left in Europe for a year or two, you don't think he'll be at a higher level? Of course he will be.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#243 » by Catchall » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:03 pm

King Ken wrote:Giannis was different. His physical tools are MJ like. It's a tough thing to swing on tools and athleticism.

KP was raw as hell one year but he went back to Europe, got taller and more skilled, and was a top 5 pick. Poku is just too raw at this stage.


I think Pokusevski has shown enough at this point. He's a highly mobile 7-footer who can rip 3s off the dribble, step into comfortable 20-foot jump shots, make reads and deliver passes, contest shots, and rebound in his area. I also like that he plays in attack mode, gets downhill and gets on top of the rim. That's a quality that most 7-footers lack.

He probably won't contribute much during his first two seasons, but you could say the same about prospects like Brandon Ingram, Jonathan Isaac and a lot of other 19 year-olds. Giannis didn't do much his rookie season. Rudy Gobert was in the G-league as a 21 year-old rookie.

If Poku is seen as a developmental pick, then maybe he falls to the late teens or even early 20s, but he'll go to a team that doesn't need much from him for a couple years and that's willing to be patient and really develop him.

There is some risk, however, that he never quite adapts to the speed of the NBA game.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#244 » by nolang1 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:42 pm

Catchall wrote:
King Ken wrote:Giannis was different. His physical tools are MJ like. It's a tough thing to swing on tools and athleticism.

KP was raw as hell one year but he went back to Europe, got taller and more skilled, and was a top 5 pick. Poku is just too raw at this stage.


I think Pokusevski has shown enough at this point. He's a highly mobile 7-footer who can rip 3s off the dribble, step into comfortable 20-foot jump shots, make reads and deliver passes, contest shots, and rebound in his area. I also like that he plays in attack mode, gets downhill and gets on top of the rim. That's a quality that most 7-footers lack.

He probably won't contribute much during his first two seasons, but you could say the same about prospects like Brandon Ingram, Jonathan Isaac and a lot of other 19 year-olds. Giannis didn't do much his rookie season. Rudy Gobert was in the G-league as a 21 year-old rookie.

If Poku is seen as a developmental pick, then maybe he falls to the late teens or even early 20s, but he'll go to a team that doesn't need much from him for a couple years and that's willing to be patient and really develop him.


Giannis contributed quite a bit as a rookie. He was a rotation player who started some games, and by any all-in-one metric he actually deserved those minutes and wasn’t just force-fed them because he was a 1st round pick. Then in his 2nd year he was a full-time starter for a team that made the playoffs while still being younger than most rookies; Kendrick Nunn is gonna be like a unanimous 1st-team all rookie selection this season for doing that at age 24. Guys like Giannis and Isaac did more as rookies to help their teams win than the RJ Barrett/Collin Sexton type of players who average ~15 a game with really bad efficiency and defense.

Some of the guards drafted this year are going to rate as some of the worst players in the league as rookies, yet nobody is saying anything like “The team that picks Anthony Edwards shouldn’t expect anything from him until he improves his shot selection, defense, and feel for the game. Until then he should be in the G league.”
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#245 » by Catchall » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:49 pm

nolang1 wrote:
Catchall wrote:
King Ken wrote:Giannis was different. His physical tools are MJ like. It's a tough thing to swing on tools and athleticism.

KP was raw as hell one year but he went back to Europe, got taller and more skilled, and was a top 5 pick. Poku is just too raw at this stage.


I think Pokusevski has shown enough at this point. He's a highly mobile 7-footer who can rip 3s off the dribble, step into comfortable 20-foot jump shots, make reads and deliver passes, contest shots, and rebound in his area. I also like that he plays in attack mode, gets downhill and gets on top of the rim. That's a quality that most 7-footers lack.

He probably won't contribute much during his first two seasons, but you could say the same about prospects like Brandon Ingram, Jonathan Isaac and a lot of other 19 year-olds. Giannis didn't do much his rookie season. Rudy Gobert was in the G-league as a 21 year-old rookie.

If Poku is seen as a developmental pick, then maybe he falls to the late teens or even early 20s, but he'll go to a team that doesn't need much from him for a couple years and that's willing to be patient and really develop him.


Giannis contributed quite a bit as a rookie. He was a rotation player who started some games, and by any all-in-one metric he actually deserved those minutes and wasn’t just force-fed them because he was a 1st round pick. Then in his 2nd year he was a full-time starter for a team that made the playoffs while still being younger than most rookies. Guys like Giannis and Isaac did more as rookies to help their teams win than the RJ Barrett/Collin Sexton type of players who average ~15 a game with really bad efficiency and defense.

Some of the guards drafted this year are going to rate as some of the worst players in the league as rookie, yet nobody is saying anything like “Anthony Edwards should be in the G league until he improves his shot selection and feel for the game.”


The Bucks were a 15-win team when Giannis was a rookie. They were tanking and could afford to play Giannis significant minutes to develop him. Even still, Giannis averaged 6.8 ppg as a rookie. Nothing eye-opening.

There's a difference between a young team that isn't trying to win and a team that's trying to compete. If Anthony Edwards were on the Jazz, he probably would spend some of his rookie season in the G-league.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#246 » by eminence » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:53 pm

Watched my first real film of this guy today. I'm interested in seeing official measurements. He doesn't look nearly that tall (7'2) on film. And I never believe the shot looks good, he's got to be better than his %'s take. You are your %'s, so as of now he's a shooting prospect, not a shooter. Don't have the time or interest to dig into his defense. Like his handle/passing quite a lot for a guy that size (even if only ~6'10). Not going to do a full evaluation, but seems like a fine lotto prospect of some sort.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#247 » by nolang1 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:11 pm

Catchall wrote:
nolang1 wrote:
Catchall wrote:
I think Pokusevski has shown enough at this point. He's a highly mobile 7-footer who can rip 3s off the dribble, step into comfortable 20-foot jump shots, make reads and deliver passes, contest shots, and rebound in his area. I also like that he plays in attack mode, gets downhill and gets on top of the rim. That's a quality that most 7-footers lack.

He probably won't contribute much during his first two seasons, but you could say the same about prospects like Brandon Ingram, Jonathan Isaac and a lot of other 19 year-olds. Giannis didn't do much his rookie season. Rudy Gobert was in the G-league as a 21 year-old rookie.

If Poku is seen as a developmental pick, then maybe he falls to the late teens or even early 20s, but he'll go to a team that doesn't need much from him for a couple years and that's willing to be patient and really develop him.


Giannis contributed quite a bit as a rookie. He was a rotation player who started some games, and by any all-in-one metric he actually deserved those minutes and wasn’t just force-fed them because he was a 1st round pick. Then in his 2nd year he was a full-time starter for a team that made the playoffs while still being younger than most rookies. Guys like Giannis and Isaac did more as rookies to help their teams win than the RJ Barrett/Collin Sexton type of players who average ~15 a game with really bad efficiency and defense.

Some of the guards drafted this year are going to rate as some of the worst players in the league as rookie, yet nobody is saying anything like “Anthony Edwards should be in the G league until he improves his shot selection and feel for the game.”


The Bucks were a 15-win team when Giannis was a rookie. They were tanking and could afford to play Giannis significant minutes to develop him. Even still, Giannis averaged 6.8 ppg as a rookie. Nothing eye-opening.

There's a difference between a young team that isn't trying to win and a team that's trying to compete. If Anthony Edwards were on the Jazz, he probably would spend some of his rookie season in the G-league.


He was 107th in the league in RAPM, which is very solid for a rookie regardless of age, and as I mentioned he started for a playoff team while still being younger than a lot of one-and-dones are as rookies. If players like Knox or Sexton can do what they did as rookies (what, were their teams so much more competitive than the Bucks?) while it’s apparently a bridge too far to expect that Pokusevski could see playing time, that to me speaks to how it’s just lazy jargon attempting to pass as analysis where basically any tall, skinny player is considered a project who’s 2 years away from being able to step foot on an NBA court.

People did this with Jaxson Hayes last year and he’s already been able to be a rotation contributor for a team that’s in the playoff hunt. Any player who’s long, mobile, and not completely clueless about what they’re capable of on offense has a limit to how bad they can actually be.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#248 » by EvanZ » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:23 pm

eminence wrote:Watched my first real film of this guy today. I'm interested in seeing official measurements. He doesn't look nearly that tall (7'2) on film. And I never believe the shot looks good, he's got to be better than his %'s take. You are your %'s, so as of now he's a shooting prospect, not a shooter. Don't have the time or interest to dig into his defense. Like his handle/passing quite a lot for a guy that size (even if only ~6'10). Not going to do a full evaluation, but seems like a fine lotto prospect of some sort.


The only "official" measurements are from 2018 when he measured 6'11" barefoot. 7'3" wingspan 9'2.5" standing reach. There's a reason he gets a ton of blocks. You can "think he's not that tall", but that's probably because he moves like someone much shorter.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#249 » by eminence » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:47 pm

EvanZ wrote:
eminence wrote:Watched my first real film of this guy today. I'm interested in seeing official measurements. He doesn't look nearly that tall (7'2) on film. And I never believe the shot looks good, he's got to be better than his %'s take. You are your %'s, so as of now he's a shooting prospect, not a shooter. Don't have the time or interest to dig into his defense. Like his handle/passing quite a lot for a guy that size (even if only ~6'10). Not going to do a full evaluation, but seems like a fine lotto prospect of some sort.


The only "official" measurements are from 2018 when he measured 6'11" barefoot. 7'3" wingspan 9'2.5" standing reach. There's a reason he gets a ton of blocks. You can "think he's not that tall", but that's probably because he moves like someone much shorter.


He moves very well for a large man that's for sure, guess we'll find out. I'm looking at him next to Ellis in various videos with the main squad and he doesn't look half a foot taller.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#250 » by BlazersBroncos » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:55 pm

He moves very well for a large man that's for sure, guess we'll find out.


I think this is an understatement. He moves, arguably, generationally well for someone his size. He doesnt have the vertical athleticism like Zinger but his biometrics in moving around the court are unreal for someone his size. He has tons and tons to work on, and adding bulk may be a huge negative to this movement, but at this moment his movement skills for someone his size are absolutely special. Its the main selling point IMO, closely followed by his handle and passing with a sizable gap then his shooting.

I think he has the form and fluidity to develop a much more consistent shot, but he will have to work. Right now I see Kukoc potential, a pure PF version as Tony was at times used at SF. But something like 17ppg, 7rpg, 4apg while spacing the floor very well for a PF is my ceiling. And to me that is a top-10 pick.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#251 » by eminence » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:05 am

BlazersBroncos wrote:
He moves very well for a large man that's for sure, guess we'll find out.


I think this is an understatement. He moves, arguably, generationally well for someone his size. He doesnt have the vertical athleticism like Zinger but his biometrics in moving around the court are unreal for someone his size. He has tons and tons to work on, and adding bulk may be a huge negative to this movement, but at this moment his movement skills for someone his size are absolutely special. Its the main selling point IMO, closely followed by his handle and passing with a sizable gap then his shooting.

I think he has the form and fluidity to develop a much more consistent shot, but he will have to work. Right now I see Kukoc potential, a pure PF version as Tony was at times used at SF. But something like 17ppg, 7rpg, 4apg while spacing the floor very well for a PF is my ceiling. And to me that is a top-10 pick.


If he's Porzingis size (7'2+) and moving like this I'd agree. If he's closer to 7 ft then he's just good (WCS is actually the best recent guy I can think of in that regard).
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#252 » by nolang1 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:28 am

eminence wrote:
BlazersBroncos wrote:
He moves very well for a large man that's for sure, guess we'll find out.


I think this is an understatement. He moves, arguably, generationally well for someone his size. He doesnt have the vertical athleticism like Zinger but his biometrics in moving around the court are unreal for someone his size. He has tons and tons to work on, and adding bulk may be a huge negative to this movement, but at this moment his movement skills for someone his size are absolutely special. Its the main selling point IMO, closely followed by his handle and passing with a sizable gap then his shooting.

I think he has the form and fluidity to develop a much more consistent shot, but he will have to work. Right now I see Kukoc potential, a pure PF version as Tony was at times used at SF. But something like 17ppg, 7rpg, 4apg while spacing the floor very well for a PF is my ceiling. And to me that is a top-10 pick.


If he's Porzingis size (7'2+) and moving like this I'd agree. If he's closer to 7 ft then he's just good (WCS is actually the best recent guy I can think of in that regard).


The 7’2” thing is referring to something he said on social media as in he’s grown taller over the past few months. Obviously not an official measurement but not implausible that he’s still growing. I remember Porzingis was a similar case where I was average on him because the film of his was as a 7’0 player and didn’t really adjust to him measuring taller in pre-draft workouts.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#253 » by ejs78 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:52 am

Where do you see him going?

B/R had him going to the Mavs at 18 today. The hype train seems to have him moving up a little every week.
EvanZ wrote:
eminence wrote:Watched my first real film of this guy today. I'm interested in seeing official measurements. He doesn't look nearly that tall (7'2) on film. And I never believe the shot looks good, he's got to be better than his %'s take. You are your %'s, so as of now he's a shooting prospect, not a shooter. Don't have the time or interest to dig into his defense. Like his handle/passing quite a lot for a guy that size (even if only ~6'10). Not going to do a full evaluation, but seems like a fine lotto prospect of some sort.


The only "official" measurements are from 2018 when he measured 6'11" barefoot. 7'3" wingspan 9'2.5" standing reach. There's a reason he gets a ton of blocks. You can "think he's not that tall", but that's probably because he moves like someone much shorter.


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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#254 » by BlazersBroncos » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:56 am

B/R had him going to the Mavs at 18 today. The hype train seems to have him moving up a little every week.


I think the potential of a Luka, Zinger, Poku trio is about as fun as I could imagine as a fan. It would be must watch basketball. Throw a deal at Bol Bol to round it out lol
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#255 » by clyde21 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:09 am

dude just doesn't look or play 7 feet at all
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#256 » by doordoor123 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:04 am

nolang1 wrote:
eminence wrote:
BlazersBroncos wrote:
I think this is an understatement. He moves, arguably, generationally well for someone his size. He doesnt have the vertical athleticism like Zinger but his biometrics in moving around the court are unreal for someone his size. He has tons and tons to work on, and adding bulk may be a huge negative to this movement, but at this moment his movement skills for someone his size are absolutely special. Its the main selling point IMO, closely followed by his handle and passing with a sizable gap then his shooting.

I think he has the form and fluidity to develop a much more consistent shot, but he will have to work. Right now I see Kukoc potential, a pure PF version as Tony was at times used at SF. But something like 17ppg, 7rpg, 4apg while spacing the floor very well for a PF is my ceiling. And to me that is a top-10 pick.


If he's Porzingis size (7'2+) and moving like this I'd agree. If he's closer to 7 ft then he's just good (WCS is actually the best recent guy I can think of in that regard).


The 7’2” thing is referring to something he said on social media as in he’s grown taller over the past few months. Obviously not an official measurement but not implausible that he’s still growing. I remember Porzingis was a similar case where I was average on him because the film of his was as a 7’0 player and didn’t really adjust to him measuring taller in pre-draft workouts.


Dwight Howard is 6’9, Montrezl Harrell is 6’7. Even if he’s shorter than 7ft and closer to 6’11 it’s still a big deal if he’s fluid and can do the things he can do.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#257 » by EvanZ » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:41 am

ejs78 wrote:Where do you see him going?

B/R had him going to the Mavs at 18 today. The hype train seems to have him moving up a little every week.


I think his realistic ceiling is probably San Antonio at 11? And his floor might be Toronto at 28. Maybe Denver completes the "Tall Death" lineup and takes him at 21.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#258 » by Mirotic12 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:28 pm

Fischella wrote:Poku is at least 7'1 in shoes yeah

As for investing 3 years and blao... Poku has real feel and can play basketball, he does need to improve and develop physically, he is so young that it's only natural, but the guy will be fine playing minutes as soon as next season, he is a real player not Bruno Caboclo people


The only way he can play in NBA next season is in garbage time, or in a team that is tanking. He could not make Olympiacos' main rotation right now.

EvanZ wrote:
eminence wrote:Watched my first real film of this guy today. I'm interested in seeing official measurements. He doesn't look nearly that tall (7'2) on film. And I never believe the shot looks good, he's got to be better than his %'s take. You are your %'s, so as of now he's a shooting prospect, not a shooter. Don't have the time or interest to dig into his defense. Like his handle/passing quite a lot for a guy that size (even if only ~6'10). Not going to do a full evaluation, but seems like a fine lotto prospect of some sort.


The only "official" measurements are from 2018 when he measured 6'11" barefoot. 7'3" wingspan 9'2.5" standing reach. There's a reason he gets a ton of blocks. You can "think he's not that tall", but that's probably because he moves like someone much shorter.


Olympiacos B team listings are official. They do just like NBA combine does. The listing they have is most definitely official.

Now, keep in mind, that is from before last season. And also of course, people can vary an inch or even more for people that height, depending on time of day. But other than that, most definitely that 7-0 barefoot listing from Olympiacos B is very official.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#259 » by Mirotic12 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:42 pm

double post
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#260 » by Fischella » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:43 pm

Again, not making it to Oly's EL roster means absolutely nothing when it comes to his capabilities of making a NBA rotation come December-January

If you guys can't drill that through your (tbh hard) heads, there is no point in arguing

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