Aleksej Pokusevski

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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#381 » by doordoor123 » Sat Sep 5, 2020 5:18 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
MemphisX wrote:
Stillwater wrote:He is not a center imo so that can just get tossed unless they want to wait a couple years and take him out of his comfort zone. I think the value here is his potential as a passer and playmaker on the wing at 7' where he can defend decent



Are we really doing this in 2020? A season in which PJ Tucker is playing center.


When PJ Tucker was in Europe, he played at the small forward position. Even though he didn't really have the necessary skills for that position. But I remember teams trying him at PF, and he wasn't strong enough to handle the 4 position in Europe.....


He didn’t play the 4 till he was on the Suns.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#382 » by EvanZ » Sat Sep 5, 2020 5:31 pm

MemphisX wrote:
Stillwater wrote:He is not a center imo so that can just get tossed unless they want to wait a couple years and take him out of his comfort zone. I think the value here is his potential as a passer and playmaker on the wing at 7' where he can defend decent



Are we really doing this in 2020? A season in which PJ Tucker is playing center.


I mean PJ Tucker would have no problem moving Poku. Being a center is clearly not just about height. Chuck Hayes was the forerunner to a guy like Tucker (or Green). You have to be strong enough to hold position down there.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#383 » by Stillwater » Sat Sep 5, 2020 5:48 pm

MemphisX wrote:
Stillwater wrote:He is not a center imo so that can just get tossed unless they want to wait a couple years and take him out of his comfort zone. I think the value here is his potential as a passer and playmaker on the wing at 7' where he can defend decent



Are we really doing this in 2020? A season in which PJ Tucker is playing center.

saying he isnt a center is not a knock on him its a reality. the kid has more skills than most centers and does have the size to play the position if he starts power lifting and piggin but wtf would he do that? he is a perimeter oriented prospect and should be treated as such.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#384 » by Sea2003 » Sun Sep 6, 2020 6:30 am

I think in today's NBA we overvalue C who might be able to shoot. With Poku, you not drafting based on talent but on potential. I don't think teams like Atlanta, Phoenix, Charlotte, etc should take a shot( unless they have multiple 1st's). Basically, lottery teams. I think teams like Boston, LA, OKC, Milluwake, New Orleans, etc should take a shot on a project like Poku since they don't have much to lose if he becomes a bust. The hope with Poku is that he becomes a Center capable of shooting and guarding multiple positions. Kinda like a Porzinges but more agile.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#385 » by MemphisX » Sun Sep 6, 2020 7:49 am

I think the only reason we keep having this limited thought process on positions is because coaches have a limited view of how to do things. Way to few D'Antoni's in the NBA. The NBA rules reward skillsnd more take advantage of that fact.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#386 » by NotACat » Sun Sep 6, 2020 12:58 pm

Poku is a wing
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#387 » by kobyz » Sun Sep 6, 2020 4:14 pm

You draft him in hope of the next Siakam
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#388 » by EvanZ » Sun Sep 6, 2020 4:27 pm

Don Nelson would have loved to have Poku.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#389 » by Pistol King » Sun Sep 6, 2020 6:54 pm

He barely seem to have the foot speed to be able to defend wings on the second division Greek league, yet some people here think he can play the wing at the NBA level. What am I missing here?

I really want to be high on him but he's the definition of twiner right now. Way too slow to guard wings, and way too skinny to guard PFs and Cs at NBA level. I also think his ball handling is nowhere tighten enough. Has anyone here seen him handling the ball under high level pressure? because all the handle I see is in the open court or against what it seems to be a semi professional competition.

The only way I see him pans out at the NBA level is as a skilled PF-C if he can add a lot of muscles weights without to lose his current agility, which is by its own questionable in NBA standards.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#390 » by Roddy B for 3 » Sun Sep 6, 2020 7:52 pm

Pistol King wrote:He barely seem to have the foot speed to be able to defend wings on the second division Greek league, yet some people here think he can play the wing at the NBA level. What am I missing here?

I really want to be high on him but he's the definition of twiner right now. Way too slow to guard wings, and way too skinny to guard PFs and Cs at NBA level. I also think his ball handling is nowhere tighten enough. Has anyone here seen him handling the ball under high level pressure? because all the handle I see is in the open court or against what it seems to be a semi professional competition.

The only way I see him pans out at the NBA level is as a skilled PF-C if he can add a lot of muscles weights without to lose his current agility, which is by its own questionable in NBA standards.

I agree with this post alot. He also needs to improve his shooting percentages.

I want to like the guy too. His passing highlights are impressive and his shooting highlights are as well.
But if people are crapping on Jokic defense this guy will get torched nightly. Ryan Anderson with highlight passing, worse shooting and taller/longer but 20-40lbd lighter.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#391 » by Sea2003 » Sun Sep 6, 2020 8:03 pm

Aleksej Pokusevski might be the most overrated euro player I've seen in a while. For one, his level of competition is abysmal. When you consider he's level of competition, he's highlights aren't very interesting. He won't be able to do much of what he does in a more athletic league like the NCAA. His stats aren't very impressive considering the fact that he played about 22 mins against a bunch of scrubs. He also really was not very impressive at U18 FIBA. With Poku, You're basically betting on a small percent chance that he can translate his shot as well as his ball-handling.

If your evaluating him on talent alone, he doesn't sniff the top 15 taking into account his level of competition. While it's easy for me to see how much value he brings with his shooting and mobility it's hard for me to overlook his issues with finishing at the rim, defending( mostly on the perimeter).

I think he'd be perfect on teams like New Orleans, San Antonio, OKC, etc. Teams that can afford to mess on him as well as play him the necessary minutes for his development.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#392 » by nolang1 » Mon Sep 7, 2020 2:49 pm

Sea2003 wrote:Aleksej Pokusevski might be the most overrated euro player I've seen in a while. For one, his level of competition is abysmal. When you consider he's level of competition, he's highlights aren't very interesting. He won't be able to do much of what he does in a more athletic league like the NCAA. His stats aren't very impressive considering the fact that he played about 22 mins against a bunch of scrubs. He also really was not very impressive at U18 FIBA. With Poku, You're basically betting on a small percent chance that he can translate his shot as well as his ball-handling.

If your evaluating him on talent alone, he doesn't sniff the top 15 taking into account his level of competition. While it's easy for me to see how much value he brings with his shooting and mobility it's hard for me to overlook his issues with finishing at the rim, defending( mostly on the perimeter).

I think he'd be perfect on teams like New Orleans, San Antonio, OKC, etc. Teams that can afford to mess on him as well as play him the necessary minutes for his development.


3.9 steals and 5.8 blocks per 36 while being over a year younger than the competition is indeed impressive at FIBA U18. Players get drafted for that kind of defensive potential alone.

The competition argument is a non-starter for me since you can only play who’s in front of you and he put up great all-around numbers in the minutes he got. Between that and randomly not playing for 3 months in the middle of the season, it was a pretty obvious case of his club trying to keep him off the NBA radar for at least another year.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#393 » by Revenged25 » Mon Sep 7, 2020 5:00 pm

nolang1 wrote:
Sea2003 wrote:Aleksej Pokusevski might be the most overrated euro player I've seen in a while. For one, his level of competition is abysmal. When you consider he's level of competition, he's highlights aren't very interesting. He won't be able to do much of what he does in a more athletic league like the NCAA. His stats aren't very impressive considering the fact that he played about 22 mins against a bunch of scrubs. He also really was not very impressive at U18 FIBA. With Poku, You're basically betting on a small percent chance that he can translate his shot as well as his ball-handling.

If your evaluating him on talent alone, he doesn't sniff the top 15 taking into account his level of competition. While it's easy for me to see how much value he brings with his shooting and mobility it's hard for me to overlook his issues with finishing at the rim, defending( mostly on the perimeter).

I think he'd be perfect on teams like New Orleans, San Antonio, OKC, etc. Teams that can afford to mess on him as well as play him the necessary minutes for his development.


3.9 steals and 5.8 blocks per 36 while being over a year younger than the competition is indeed impressive at FIBA U18. Players get drafted for that kind of defensive potential alone.

The competition argument is a non-starter for me since you can only play who’s in front of you and he put up great all-around numbers in the minutes he got. Between that and randomly not playing for 3 months in the middle of the season, it was a pretty obvious case of his club trying to keep him off the NBA radar for at least another year.


What happened to me using a strawman and no one talking about him being a center? I know it's petty but still gotta. Also I still think he's a PF not a center personally.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#394 » by nolang1 » Mon Sep 7, 2020 6:04 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
nolang1 wrote:
Sea2003 wrote:Aleksej Pokusevski might be the most overrated euro player I've seen in a while. For one, his level of competition is abysmal. When you consider he's level of competition, he's highlights aren't very interesting. He won't be able to do much of what he does in a more athletic league like the NCAA. His stats aren't very impressive considering the fact that he played about 22 mins against a bunch of scrubs. He also really was not very impressive at U18 FIBA. With Poku, You're basically betting on a small percent chance that he can translate his shot as well as his ball-handling.

If your evaluating him on talent alone, he doesn't sniff the top 15 taking into account his level of competition. While it's easy for me to see how much value he brings with his shooting and mobility it's hard for me to overlook his issues with finishing at the rim, defending( mostly on the perimeter).

I think he'd be perfect on teams like New Orleans, San Antonio, OKC, etc. Teams that can afford to mess on him as well as play him the necessary minutes for his development.


3.9 steals and 5.8 blocks per 36 while being over a year younger than the competition is indeed impressive at FIBA U18. Players get drafted for that kind of defensive potential alone.

The competition argument is a non-starter for me since you can only play who’s in front of you and he put up great all-around numbers in the minutes he got. Between that and randomly not playing for 3 months in the middle of the season, it was a pretty obvious case of his club trying to keep him off the NBA radar for at least another year.


What happened to me using a strawman and no one talking about him being a center? I know it's petty but still gotta. Also I still think he's a PF not a center personally.


Sorry, I should've been more blunt and said only simpleminded people who hadn't watched him play until a couple weeks ago talk about him as a center. You can look at earlier pages in the thread and see no one was talking about him as a center, which isn’t too hard to do. Sorry you’re butthurt that nobody gave you a pat on the head for making the Captain Obvious statement that Pokusevski is closer to being a 4 than a 5, but you don’t need to clutter threads with your continued obsession over this.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#395 » by Mirotic12 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 12:27 am

nolang1 wrote:3.9 steals and 5.8 blocks per 36 while being over a year younger than the competition is indeed impressive at FIBA U18. Players get drafted for that kind of defensive potential alone.

The competition argument is a non-starter for me since you can only play who’s in front of you and he put up great all-around numbers in the minutes he got. Between that and randomly not playing for 3 months in the middle of the season, it was a pretty obvious case of his club trying to keep him off the NBA radar for at least another year.


Olympiacos did not bench him because they wanted to keep him from the NBA. Why does this same narrative always come up with every single draft prospect that isn't playing in Europe? Olympiacos did not do that.

In fact, they have been greatly hoping he gets drafted. They want him to be drafted. They want the $1 million buyout he has for the NBA. Because he wasn't good enough to make their EuroLeague rotation, and yet they get $1 million for a player that wasn't even able to contribute to the team. They want him to get drafted, and if he had any chance of making the rotation he absolutely 100% for sure would have been playing.

This whole "European teams bench players so they don't get drafted" narrative is a false myth. In most cases the European teams are greatly hoping the player gets drafted so they get a buyout.

Olympiacos didn't do anything but everything they could to hope he gets drafted. He didn't play on the senior team because he wasn't ready. They actually had articles in Greek media talking about how much hope they had he gets drafted so they get that buyout for this season.

Getting large buyouts for young players like that can help to fund their development team (the team Poku was on). That way it doesn't take any resources from the first team, and also it makes is financially feasible to spend the time developing players like Poku, that Olympiacos spent the last 5 years developing.

And having him on the team another year is meaningless for Olympiacos. Because he's not going to contribute anything to them winning games in the EuroLeague. So they have no motivation other than seeing him get drafted.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#396 » by Mirotic12 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 12:42 am

Sea2003 wrote:Aleksej Pokusevski might be the most overrated euro player I've seen in a while. For one, his level of competition is abysmal. When you consider he's level of competition, he's highlights aren't very interesting. He won't be able to do much of what he does in a more athletic league like the NCAA. His stats aren't very impressive considering the fact that he played about 22 mins against a bunch of scrubs. He also really was not very impressive at U18 FIBA. With Poku, You're basically betting on a small percent chance that he can translate his shot as well as his ball-handling.

If your evaluating him on talent alone, he doesn't sniff the top 15 taking into account his level of competition. While it's easy for me to see how much value he brings with his shooting and mobility it's hard for me to overlook his issues with finishing at the rim, defending( mostly on the perimeter).

I think he'd be perfect on teams like New Orleans, San Antonio, OKC, etc. Teams that can afford to mess on him as well as play him the necessary minutes for his development.


Greek 2nd division is clearly much higher level competition than you think it is. Of course it's lower than the first division in Greece, and that is much lower than EuroLeague. But you can't talk about NCAA being better than Greek 2nd division.

In years past, G-League selection teams (like all star selections) used to go play Greek 2nd division teams in the preseason, and most of the times the G-League teams lost. One summer the G-League selection team went 0-3 against teams from Greece's 2nd division.

If we talk about NCAA, quite a few mid major and mid minor teams have played against 3rd and 4th division Greek teams. Not 2nd division, but 3rd and 4th division teams. And plenty of times those mid major NCAA teams lost to teams from Greece's 3rd division. I remember a game some years back where a mid minor college team actually lost to a 4th division Greek team. I don't remember the names of the teams, but just what leagues (NCAA DI and Greek 4th).

I mean sure, some elite college team like Kentucky or Duke might very well beat an average or good team from Greece's 2nd division. But no way is the overall average level NCAA DI as good as the Greek 2nd division level. In Greece's 2nd division there are numerous players that were very good, or even dominant in FIBA youth competitions, there are guys that have played many years and been good players in first divisions in Europe, like in good leagues like Greece, Italy, Spain.....

There are also plenty of players in Greek 2nd division that have played in European-wide leagues like EuroCup and even EuroLeague. And it certainly is not a semi-professional competition. The best players in Greece's 2nd league make around $220,000 to $350,000 a year. So it's most definitely not semi-professional. It's a professional men's league.

Granted, it's miles from something like EuroLeague level, but the NCAA shouldn't even be used as a comparison. The best teams in Greece's 2nd league are clearly better than an average DI college team. Let's put it this way for clarification, there are plenty of former NCAA division 1 players that have played in Greek 2nd division that were below average players, were scrubs, or that even got cut for poor play.

Obviously, looking at what a guy is doing in Greece's second league is way different from looking at a guy that is playing regularly in EuroLeague, like say Luka Doncic was. But, you can't swing that the other way around all the way to if he played against NCAA level competition, he would not be as good. The average NCAA player wouldn't make the rotation of a Greek second league team. The vast majority (98%) of NCAA players never even play at a pro level anywhere.

It's certainly a valid and good point to make about him not playing at EuroLeague level, and not playing even in a first division European national league. But on the other hand, we can't start comparing to college hoops, or even implying that college ball is better than a fully pro men's league in Europe, in a country that has a highly developed basketball system. Even if it is a second league, because the second tier leagues in France, Spain, Italy, and Greece are serious leagues. Those country's second level leagues are better than some of the first tier national leagues in Europe.

In Greece's 2nd league, there are lots of players that could easily play in the first league, but they choose the second league because they can actually make more money that way, as a team will pay them more, in trying to be promoted to the higher league. So the 2nd division teams will pay higher contracts than a first division team would to such players, to help them get that league promotion. It's not like NBA to G-League. It's not a system where all the players are in a second league because they are not good enough for a higher level league. That's not how it works. You actually have guys that would be good players in the first division, choosing to play in the second division, for more money.

From time to time, you will get former NBA players in those second level leagues of Spain, Greece, Italy, and France. And most importantly, most of the players are grown men, not boys (NCAA).
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#397 » by nolang1 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 1:37 am

Mirotic12 wrote:
nolang1 wrote:3.9 steals and 5.8 blocks per 36 while being over a year younger than the competition is indeed impressive at FIBA U18. Players get drafted for that kind of defensive potential alone.

The competition argument is a non-starter for me since you can only play who’s in front of you and he put up great all-around numbers in the minutes he got. Between that and randomly not playing for 3 months in the middle of the season, it was a pretty obvious case of his club trying to keep him off the NBA radar for at least another year.


Olympiacos did not bench him because they wanted to keep him from the NBA. Why does this same narrative always come up with every single draft prospect that isn't playing in Europe? Olympiacos did not do that.

In fact, they have been greatly hoping he gets drafted. They want him to be drafted. They want the $1 million buyout he has for the NBA. Because he wasn't good enough to make their EuroLeague rotation, and yet they get $1 million for a player that wasn't even able to contribute to the team. They want him to get drafted, and if he had any chance of making the rotation he absolutely 100% for sure would have been playing.

This whole "European teams bench players so they don't get drafted" narrative is a false myth. In most cases the European teams are greatly hoping the player gets drafted so they get a buyout.

Olympiacos didn't do anything but everything they could to hope he gets drafted. He didn't play on the senior team because he wasn't ready. They actually had articles in Greek media talking about how much hope they had he gets drafted so they get that buyout for this season.

Getting large buyouts for young players like that can help to fund their development team (the team Poku was on). That way it doesn't take any resources from the first team, and also it makes is financially feasible to spend the time developing players like Poku, that Olympiacos spent the last 5 years developing.

And having him on the team another year is meaningless for Olympiacos. Because he's not going to contribute anything to them winning games in the EuroLeague. So they have no motivation other than seeing him get drafted.


He didn't play for their B team from late November to late February. Are you trying to tell me that someone with those numbers was suddenly bad enough to get DNP-CDs lol
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#398 » by patman66 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 3:48 am

Pistol King wrote:He barely seem to have the foot speed to be able to defend wings on the second division Greek league, yet some people here think he can play the wing at the NBA level. What am I missing here?

I really want to be high on him but he's the definition of twiner right now. Way too slow to guard wings, and way too skinny to guard PFs and Cs at NBA level. I also think his ball handling is nowhere tighten enough. Has anyone here seen him handling the ball under high level pressure? because all the handle I see is in the open court or against what it seems to be a semi professional competition.

The only way I see him pans out at the NBA level is as a skilled PF-C if he can add a lot of muscles weights without to lose his current agility, which is by its own questionable in NBA standards.


I think he is still growing into his body, his speed looks fine for a rangy big, he just looks like a a younger teenager kind of awkward still, herky jerky type. I think his co-od will improve over time. Disclaimer: I am by no means even an amateur basketball talent evaluator. :D
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#399 » by Saberestar » Tue Sep 8, 2020 12:16 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
nolang1 wrote:3.9 steals and 5.8 blocks per 36 while being over a year younger than the competition is indeed impressive at FIBA U18. Players get drafted for that kind of defensive potential alone.

The competition argument is a non-starter for me since you can only play who’s in front of you and he put up great all-around numbers in the minutes he got. Between that and randomly not playing for 3 months in the middle of the season, it was a pretty obvious case of his club trying to keep him off the NBA radar for at least another year.


Olympiacos did not bench him because they wanted to keep him from the NBA. Why does this same narrative always come up with every single draft prospect that isn't playing in Europe? Olympiacos did not do that.

In fact, they have been greatly hoping he gets drafted. They want him to be drafted. They want the $1 million buyout he has for the NBA. Because he wasn't good enough to make their EuroLeague rotation, and yet they get $1 million for a player that wasn't even able to contribute to the team. They want him to get drafted, and if he had any chance of making the rotation he absolutely 100% for sure would have been playing.

This whole "European teams bench players so they don't get drafted" narrative is a false myth. In most cases the European teams are greatly hoping the player gets drafted so they get a buyout.

Olympiacos didn't do anything but everything they could to hope he gets drafted. He didn't play on the senior team because he wasn't ready. They actually had articles in Greek media talking about how much hope they had he gets drafted so they get that buyout for this season.

Getting large buyouts for young players like that can help to fund their development team (the team Poku was on). That way it doesn't take any resources from the first team, and also it makes is financially feasible to spend the time developing players like Poku, that Olympiacos spent the last 5 years developing.

And having him on the team another year is meaningless for Olympiacos. Because he's not going to contribute anything to them winning games in the EuroLeague. So they have no motivation other than seeing him get drafted.

At which spot do you think that Pokusevski deserves to be selected in the draft? Over or under #15? I want to know your personal opinion.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#400 » by Revenged25 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 1:09 pm

Drafting Poku isn't about immediate success, it's about realizing the skills he has, willing to take the time to help him develop both his skills and his body further, and then in 2-3 years hopefully have a player that went from raw but extremely talented like Giannis into an All-Star or better. A team that is already borderline playoff or is a playoff team and has multiple 1sts, like Boston, are the exact environments that will let Poku reach his full potential.

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