Aleksej Pokusevski

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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#481 » by UcanUwill » Thu Feb 4, 2021 4:31 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:People can make excuses all day long for Vesely - saying the exact opposite of each other - he should have played center instead of forward or he should have played forward instead of center - but the truth is he sucked with the Wizards, and no other NBA team showed any interest in him. He couldn't play center in the NBA, because he was weak and had terrible hands. He couldn't play the 3, because his offense wasn't good enough. And all of that was predictable watching his Euro games on video. He was talked about ad nauseum on the Wiz board before he was drafted - it was almost unanimous there that he was going to bust. Eventually talent rises like cream to the top - no matter who the coach is. He didn't.


Once he got to his prime in Europe, he was like 5 times a better player than he was on Partizan. The guy is an absolute unreal athletic freak of nature and is 7 feet with a huge wingspan. He would have probably been at something like prime DeAndre Jordan level, if he continued to play in the NBA.

Considering that he's a 7 footer, I honestly can't think of a European player in all of history that had his overall level of athleticism. Pelekanos was more athletic if you don't account for height, but not if you factor in he was like 6-6, and not 7-0. And in terms of all players that played in EuroLeague (any nationality), and counting all the FIBA years back to the 1950s also, Vesely is probably like the second most athletic player ever after Raga.

He's literally a once in a generation level athlete at 7 feet. I have absolutely zero doubt that he could have eventually been a decent starting center in the NBA.

No doubt he was a very good athlete, but the Wiz had him with Javale McGee - who was a better athlete than Vesely and even longer. That didn't work out very well. McGee's been a career journeyman. I gotta disagree with you on Vesely becoming a good NBA center. An NBA center absolutely needs good hands to excel, and he didn't have them. He also lacked the strength.


As a center he just sucks. I mean he is good for Euroleague, but he has no NBA upside. He is basically a garbage bucket and lob finisher, but he cant block shots and is below average rebounder. In Europe he gets his buckets, but in the NBA whats good from a center like that, imagine if prime Deandre couldnt block shots nor rebound very well, absolute waste. I liked him way better as a 3 at a time, maybe I do overrate his ability to be perimeter player, but Thabo Safalosha and Andre Robertson were SF's in the league, so I dont know. My opinion stands, he was developed all wrong, they drafted a guy who couldnt rebound, defend the post or block shots and put him at center, of course he sucked.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#482 » by Fischella » Thu Feb 4, 2021 4:38 pm

wait what? the Wiz didn't put Vesely at Center, that's the main problem and he def isn't a guy that can't block shots lol, he isn't elite there but he is solid/good, he is an okay rebounder esp considering Zeljko played him often next to a bigger big too, liking him better as a 3 is just ridiculous sorry, you must have missed how mobility from your bigs is more important in modern bball than ever, Vesely being a plus defender in the perimeter for a 7-footer is an argument FOR him to play as a Center not AGAINST it man

And on offense he is definitely not a perimeter player, and that sets it, Sefolosha was a much better shooter, even though he was a limited player and Roberson played as a big on offense, they used him mostly as a screener, transition player and a guy to stay in the corners for open 3s/cuts, he defended the best perimeter player on the opposite team but on offense he was not a 2-3

Vesely was developed wrongly by an incompetent franchise, the Wiz, who wanted him to be an all around perimeter player, had they played him as a two-way big he would've stucked in the league eventually and be productive

Also Deandre Jordan was always just meh as a rim protector for a Center and sure, he rebounds a lot but he is almost a negative by doing that if you have followed his career, Vesely way more mobile/versatile in terms of defense
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#483 » by UcanUwill » Fri Feb 5, 2021 12:47 am

Thabo wasnt a better shooter at all when hr was drafted, and thats the point, they didnt even try to work on his shot. Jan was bad 3 point shooter but he wasnt non existent. He was mobile and lean, had an explosive dribble step, but look at him now... If you like center Vesely more than promising Partizan Vesely, I dont know what to say. And yeah, career 0.7 blocks in EL, he is not a guy who blocks shots. Nowadays I agree that mobility at perimeter is important for any position, but 10 years ago they still wanted bigs to beef up and defend the post, and thats exactly what Wizards did with Jan, they turned his biggest strength into big nothing, Partizan Vesely was far better at perimer, he never needed those extra pounds. He is quentisential example that sometimes being drafted by the wrong team what makes one a bust.

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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#484 » by God Squad » Fri Feb 5, 2021 9:15 am

Fischella VS UCanUWill VS Mirotic12
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#485 » by Fischella » Fri Feb 5, 2021 11:24 am

UcanUwill wrote:Thabo wasnt a better shooter at all when hr was drafted, and thats the point, they didnt even try to work on his shot. Jan was bad 3 point shooter but he wasnt non existent. He was mobile and lean, had an explosive dribble step, but look at him now... If you like center Vesely more than promising Partizan Vesely, I dont know what to say. And yeah, career 0.7 blocks in EL, he is not a guy who blocks shots. Nowadays I agree that mobility at perimeter is important for any position, but 10 years ago they still wanted bigs to beef up and defend the post, and thats exactly what Wizards did with Jan, they turned his biggest strength into big nothing, Partizan Vesely was far better at perimer, he never needed those extra pounds. He is quentisential example that sometimes being drafted by the wrong team what makes one a bust.

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Thabo was a way better shooter in NBA, this isn't even an argument

And yeah, look at Jan now, after many massive injuries, of course he has lost athleticism, he is also over 30 man

Center Vesely has been a way better player than wing Vesely would've been, basically because wing Vesely was never tenable, he wasn't skilled enough to play there and it would have not worked out, ever, it's a fantasy

In his prime Vesely had around a 4BLK% in Euroleague, which yeah isn't elite for a Center but considering he played a ton next to another big and that Zeljko's schemes are kinda conservative, it isn't half bad

I said that he wasn't a monster shot blocker but he was alright, far from a guy "who doesn't block shots"

Man, the Wiz didn't play Vesely inside, not sure what you are talking about and he def needed the extra lbs, guessing you'd have advocated for Pau Gasol to play SF too even though his strengths/weaknesses made way more sense as a big

Funny thing is, you are completely right with that last sentence, but for all the wrong reasons :lol:
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#486 » by Fischella » Fri Feb 5, 2021 11:24 am

God Squad wrote:Fischella VS UCanUWill VS Mirotic12

They are such stereotypes of euro-fans, it's truly remarkable
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#487 » by UcanUwill » Fri Feb 5, 2021 12:33 pm

Fischella wrote:
God Squad wrote:Fischella VS UCanUWill VS Mirotic12

They are such stereotypes of euro-fans, it's truly remarkable


Sorry we hijacked this thread, what stereotype is me? You will not change my mind on Vesely, fact is they made him into center, made him put a lot of weight, and he is not NBA caliber player now. I still rewatch his partizan mixtapes on youtube, he was so mobile and nothing about his game screamed center except for the fact he was tall...

P.S. I might expressed myself wrong. I mean even guys like Gallinari play bigman now, my problem is not that Vesely is bigman now, is that the WIzards tried to make him in traditional bigman, who he is now, and he sucks. They abandoned his jumpshot, face up game, they made him into a guy who cna just catch and finish 10 feet out and no futher. Guy turned from promising defensive foraward to bum center.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#488 » by God Squad » Fri Feb 5, 2021 12:42 pm

UcanUwill wrote:
Fischella wrote:
God Squad wrote:Fischella VS UCanUWill VS Mirotic12

They are such stereotypes of euro-fans, it's truly remarkable


Sorry we hijacked this thread, what stereotype is me? You will not change my mind on Vesely, fact is they made him into center, made him put a lot of weight, and he is not NBA caliber player now. I still rewatch his partizan mixtapes on youtube, he was so mobile and nothing about his game screamed center except for the fact he was tall...

Oh its okay, I don't really care tbh. Just saw the back and forth between you guys have gone on for a couple of pages and any Euro-centric thread lol.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#489 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Feb 5, 2021 1:02 pm

Ruzious wrote:We will have to agree to disagree on that. As a Wiz fan, I've seen a TON of games that both of them played in. Not saying Vesely wasn't a very good athlete, but he wasn't at McGee's level.


What exactly do you define athleticism as? I am asking because how I have always understood it for athletes, and also for basketball players, there is simply zero argument to say MgCee is more athletic than Vesely. So how are you defining athleticism?
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#490 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Feb 5, 2021 1:06 pm

Ruzious wrote:That doesn't jibe with what this article on the top Euro salaries were in 2018. https://www.eurohoops.net/en/top-lists/722638/the-top-10-euroleague-salaries/4/ The top salary was around $4 million, and Jan's was $2,430,000. Interestingly, Chris Singleton's up there around 1.8. He was picked later in the first round by the Wiz in the Vesely draft. He was an awful offensive player and overrated defender. Funny story on him - the first thing he did after signing his rookie contract was buy thousands of lottery tickets.


The salaries in Europe are only reported as the net income. Those are the salaries after all taxes, all deductions, all fees are taken out. That is how much the players earned after they already paid all their taxes, all their agent fees, and all of their union dues and retirement funds and any other deductions.

Salaries in Europe not reported as gross income (before taxes, agent fees, and retirement fund / union dues, other deductions) like salaries in the NBA.

From the same source and same link that you quoted:

*The reported sums are the net salaries. Due to the various tax laws in Europe, it’s hard to calculate the gross amount of each contract, and in many cases, the tax is almost equal to the net salary. Furthermore, the Euro is not the official currency in countries like Israel, Russia and Turkey. That’s why many of the EuroLeague deals are made in US dollars. In order to avoid confusion and to have an easier comparison to NBA contracts, we calculated all the salaries in US dollars.


Also, Vesely was making more than that at some points. At one time, his contract with Fener was at $3.2 million net income per season. If you figure in taxes, union dues, retirement fund fees, and agent fees, general deductions that comes to a salary of around $7.2 million a season gross (the way that NBA contracts are figured and listed).

I know that US sports media almost always reports the salaries in Europe, without stating those are net income amounts. Although sometimes, even US sports media does clarify that. I remember for example they clarified that when guys like Josh Childress and Linas Kleiza signed in Europe, and US fans couldn't understand how it was for "more money", so they had to explain that the salary numbers in Europe are the net income.

Just remember that whenever you see a salary for a player in Europe, that you are seeing how much money they keep as their take home, after all taxes, union dues, retirement fees, agent fees are paid. As a general rule, you can multiply the salary from Europe by 2.25 to get the equivalent NBA salary. Also, if you are talking about guys that get paid in Euros, which are worth more than US dollars, then you have to also factor in the exchange rate. Over the last 13 years, the exchange rate has been varying around 1.1 to 1.6 US dollars for every single Euro. It's currently at about 1.2 US dollars for every single Euro.

I can tell you that the highest paid basketball players in Europe, have made around $9 million to $11.25 million a season, in how the NBA counts salary, since around the early 1990s. Going back to the early 1990s, the very highest paid players in Europe have been making in the range of $4 million to $5 million net income per season.

For some reason, the top salary range has never gone above that level in over 25 years. But that is how much it's been. Just recently, Toni Kukoc did an interview where he explained that he took a huge pay cut to play in the NBA, from his salary in Europe, and that was back in 1993.

If you want to know what the highest contract offer ever in European basketball was, 10 years ago, CSKA Moscow offered Kevin Durant a contract at $8 million net income per season, which translates to about $18 million a season in NBA money terms. But Durant turned it down.

It should also be noted that the teams in Europe also pay for the player's cars, housing, and utilities, something that NBA teams do not do.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#491 » by Ruzious » Fri Feb 5, 2021 1:30 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:We will have to agree to disagree on that. As a Wiz fan, I've seen a TON of games that both of them played in. Not saying Vesely wasn't a very good athlete, but he wasn't at McGee's level.


What exactly do you define athleticism as? I am asking because how I have always understood it for athletes, and also for basketball players, there is simply zero argument to say MgCee is more athletic than Vesely. So how are you defining athleticism?

Let me start by saying, I think you're just as wrong as you think I am, so this is almost certainly a complete waste of time. If you're really sincere with that question, you tell me what your definition is.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#492 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Feb 5, 2021 1:39 pm

Ruzious wrote:Let me start by saying, I think you're just as wrong as you think I am, so this is almost certainly a complete waste of time. If you're really sincere with that question, you tell me what your definition is.


I am sincere with the question, but if you are that convinced that McGee was more athletic than Vesely - yeah, it's probably best to not waste time with a debate. I can agree on that.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#493 » by MemphisX » Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:50 pm

2-10 no free throws in G league debut :nonono:
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#494 » by clyde21 » Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:22 am

again no FTs in 26 mins, 2/13 (2 makes are 3s), 7 TOs

he has to have to the record for most mins without a single FTs at this point, especially for a 7 footer lol.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#495 » by UcanUwill » Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:23 pm

clyde21 wrote:again no FTs in 26 mins, 2/13 (2 makes are 3s), 7 TOs

he has to have to the record for most mins without a single FTs at this point, especially for a 7 footer lol.


He might be playable in few years, stop kidding yourselves saying he shows that he belongs in the NBA, not even close.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#496 » by Mirotic12 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:09 pm

Again guys, Olympiacos' head coach had already stated right before the draft, that if Poku stayed with Olympiacos this year, he would again be on the developmental team this season.

I really don't see why anyone would be surprised that he's just a project right now. Like seriously, what else were people expecting?
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#497 » by God Squad » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:08 am

clyde21 wrote:again no FTs in 26 mins, 2/13 (2 makes are 3s), 7 TOs

he has to have to the record for most mins without a single FTs at this point, especially for a 7 footer lol.

He was terrible vs the Ignite.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#498 » by God Squad » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:13 am

Mirotic12 wrote:Again guys, Olympiacos' head coach had already stated right before the draft, that if Poku stayed with Olympiacos this year, he would again be on the developmental team this season.

I really don't see why anyone would be surprised that he's just a project right now. Like seriously, what else were people expecting?

From Fischella
I dont think anyone who is posting here has really watched him, his touch looks worse than I expected but like I mentioned before he looks like he belongs already in a NBA court


some of his passes and shots are def wild and out there but he also has flashes of consistency as a decision maker, he understands basketball and doesn't look to sped up out there considering age/level of experience, which I thought would be the case because he just knows how to play

Have you guys seen how many turnovers he gets per game because of dumb/lazy passes? Honestly just go back two pages and read the nonsense. Where Poku has done a great job IMO would be as a weakside shot blocker.
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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#499 » by ThunderBolt » Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:35 pm

Still no free throws. Good game with some comedy.

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Re: Aleksej Pokusevski 

Post#500 » by retrobro90 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:52 am



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