Haliburton

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Re: Haliburton 

Post#161 » by EvanZ » Fri Jan 8, 2021 11:22 pm

clyde21 wrote:who cares about 'star' or not? being a winning player has nothing to do with being a 'star'...there are a lot of 'stars' that are not winning players...they gets #s based strictly off their usage and don't have any substantive impact on winning



The discussion *is* about whether he is going to be a star. If you agree he won't be without increasing his usage, then we can end this right now. I have no quarrel about him being a "winning" player. Looks like one to me. Always has. But it's a supporting kind of role.

Usage isn't sufficient for stardom. It is necessary (in 99% of cases outside of Draymond).
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Re: Haliburton 

Post#162 » by clyde21 » Fri Jan 8, 2021 11:26 pm

EvanZ wrote:
clyde21 wrote:who cares about 'star' or not? being a winning player has nothing to do with being a 'star'...there are a lot of 'stars' that are not winning players...they gets #s based strictly off their usage and don't have any substantive impact on winning



The discussion *is* about whether he is going to be a star. If you agree he won't be without increasing his usage, then we can end this right now. I have no quarrel about him being a "winning" player. Looks like one to me. Always has. But it's a supporting kind of role.

Usage isn't sufficient for stardom. It is necessary (in 99% of cases outside of Draymond).


not really, "star" is meaningless without context. if guy like D-Lo or Melo is your benchmark for "star" I think Hali will be a much more useful and winning player. you can have the usage/raw numbers.
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Re: Haliburton 

Post#163 » by EvanZ » Fri Jan 8, 2021 11:41 pm

clyde21 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
clyde21 wrote:who cares about 'star' or not? being a winning player has nothing to do with being a 'star'...there are a lot of 'stars' that are not winning players...they gets #s based strictly off their usage and don't have any substantive impact on winning



The discussion *is* about whether he is going to be a star. If you agree he won't be without increasing his usage, then we can end this right now. I have no quarrel about him being a "winning" player. Looks like one to me. Always has. But it's a supporting kind of role.

Usage isn't sufficient for stardom. It is necessary (in 99% of cases outside of Draymond).


not really, "star" is meaningless without context. if guy like D-Lo or Melo is your benchmark for "star" I think Hali will be a much more useful and winning player. you can have the usage/raw numbers.


Melo will be a winning player and a star. DLo is a fake star and not a winning player. Nice strawman though.
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Re: Haliburton 

Post#164 » by 916fan » Sat Jan 9, 2021 12:17 am

EvanZ wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
Could say the same about Hali.


lol not even close. Hali's body is not even developed yet.


LOL you think he's 15? He's older than Deni. The dude has a terrible frame.


I haven't been on this forum in almost a year, so I was really interested in seeing what people had to say about Haliburton. Was a bit shocked to see someone nitpick at his usage above all, but I'm aware it has more to do with how you see his potential as a star. But to address your post, Haliburton is 1 year older than Deni. Deni just turned 20. Haliburton is 20, turning 21. I don't think his age is a big deal at all. I also disagree with Haliburton having a "terrible" frame. He's very lanky with more of a narrow shoulder yes, but that's not to say he has a bad frame by any means. He's 6'5 175 with a good wingspan. He can still fill out. His teammate Fox has filled out tremendously well since Kentucky.

EvanZ wrote:
clyde21 wrote:ROTY so far by a pretty decent margin


Not really better than Deni after tonight.

You made this comment the night AFTER Deni had a 11pt 7reb 3asts 3stl game on 4-7 from the floor. Prior to that game, here's Deni's splits in comparison to Haliburton in the same time frame:
Deni (5 games): 26.0mpg 7.2pts 4.8rebs 2.6asts 1stl 0.2blk 0.6tos on 50/43.8/60
Hali (5 games): 26.9mpg 10.6pts 2rebs 4.4asts 1stl 0.4blk 0.8tos on 52.9/50/87.5

In those 5 games, Deni had 0 double digits games, whereas Hali had 4. I'm not sure how you can say Deni has been the better rookie, especially making a statement that bold after a 11/7/3 game. That's really well for a rookie, but that's not a game that would put him over the ROY edge when Haliburton has clearly looked better this year.


There was only 1 user who made a claim that Hali could be a star. Aside from him, I don't think anyone else has made this point? I do think it's too premature to put any type of expectation on him. I think people are underrating his potential just because he's such a well rounded player already. This notion was ALSO added to Luka. It was a huge topic on this forum and even in the NBA circles according to Givony. It's really silly looking back at it now. Tyrese is a very fun player to watch. The ball never sticks to his hand. He's constantly looking to move it and finds players in their spots. His passing is very infectious. I wouldn't say that he's a great ball handler like Fox, but his IQ and decision making make him one of the smartest players with the ball as demonstrated by his total of 28asts in the season o only 4 turnovers.

If you think he lacks a killer instinct, I think his last game vs. the Bulls was very indicitave of his confidence and potential scoring ability. He only had 2pts on 1-8 shooting going into the 4th quarter. He finished the game with 17pts 7-15 from the floor with a clutch performance.

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Re: Haliburton 

Post#165 » by SNPA » Sat Jan 9, 2021 5:32 am

Read on Twitter


Catch and pump fake going left, step in with a dribble, jump step back, fake pass right, instantly drop the three. Balance. He is a fantastically balanced player. Even on the move he uses his wingspan and legs to keep a balanced core.

To those that were worried about his shot, you can stop worrying.
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Re: Haliburton 

Post#166 » by MemphisX » Sat Jan 9, 2021 6:00 am

Sometimes you have to throw everything away and just watch this dude make winning play after winning play, game after game. If he was bigger, more athletic or whatever you want to say, he would be a generational prospect. As is, he is damn good and if the Kings get good enough, he might be an All Star one day. No way you watch him play and don't "get it". He really might be the Kings best player already.
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Re: Haliburton 

Post#167 » by clyde21 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 6:01 am

Mr Evan has it completely backwards, the fact that Hali is such a valuable player WHILE having such low usage is exactly why he's such a good prospect/player

low usage, high impact players are at a **** premium in today's NBA for team building. you can have your ball monopolizers, I'll take a Hali over Melo any of the week and twice on Sunday if we're playing football too
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Re: Haliburton 

Post#168 » by EvanZ » Sat Jan 9, 2021 6:12 am

clyde21 wrote:Mr Evan has it completely backwards, the fact that Hali is such a valuable player WHILE having such low usage is exactly why he's such a good prospect/player

low usage, high impact players are at a **** premium in today's NBA for team building. you can have your ball monopolizers, I'll take a Hali over Melo any of the week and twice on Sunday if we're playing football too


Do you think he's a future star or not? I've been told nobody is claiming he's a star. Let's just put our cards on the table.
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Re: Haliburton 

Post#169 » by EvanZ » Sat Jan 9, 2021 6:13 am

SNPA wrote:
Read on Twitter


Catch and pump fake going left, step in with a dribble, jump step back, fake pass right, instantly drop the three. Balance. He is a fantastically balanced player. Even on the move he uses his wingspan and legs to keep a balanced core.

To those that were worried about his shot, you can stop worrying.


What do you think his wingspan is? I think people have this incorrect notion that he has a 7' wingspan or something. It's 6'7.5". I mean it's fine. But it's not close to elite.
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Re: Haliburton 

Post#170 » by clyde21 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 6:15 am

EvanZ wrote:
clyde21 wrote:Mr Evan has it completely backwards, the fact that Hali is such a valuable player WHILE having such low usage is exactly why he's such a good prospect/player

low usage, high impact players are at a **** premium in today's NBA for team building. you can have your ball monopolizers, I'll take a Hali over Melo any of the week and twice on Sunday if we're playing football too


Do you think he's a future star or not? I've been told nobody is claiming he's a star. Let's just put our cards on the table.


what's your definition of a star?

i care more about his base, and his base a Draymond-level ELITE role-player who will be more conducive to winning than the majority of twitter stars dropping 30 points a night because they take 25 shots.
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Re: Haliburton 

Post#171 » by EvanZ » Sat Jan 9, 2021 6:17 am

clyde21 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
clyde21 wrote:Mr Evan has it completely backwards, the fact that Hali is such a valuable player WHILE having such low usage is exactly why he's such a good prospect/player

low usage, high impact players are at a **** premium in today's NBA for team building. you can have your ball monopolizers, I'll take a Hali over Melo any of the week and twice on Sunday if we're playing football too


Do you think he's a future star or not? I've been told nobody is claiming he's a star. Let's just put our cards on the table.


what's your definition of a star?

i care more about his base, and his base a Draymond-level ELITE role-player who will be more conducive to winning than the majority of twitter stars dropping 30 points a night because they take 25 shots.


"His base is Draymond-level"

:lol:
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Re: Haliburton 

Post#172 » by SNPA » Sat Jan 9, 2021 6:33 am

EvanZ wrote:
SNPA wrote:
Read on Twitter


Catch and pump fake going left, step in with a dribble, jump step back, fake pass right, instantly drop the three. Balance. He is a fantastically balanced player. Even on the move he uses his wingspan and legs to keep a balanced core.

To those that were worried about his shot, you can stop worrying.


What do you think his wingspan is? I think people have this incorrect notion that he has a 7' wingspan or something. It's 6'7.5". I mean it's fine. But it's not close to elite.

There has been a lot of chatter about this. What is your source?
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Re: Haliburton 

Post#173 » by EvanZ » Sat Jan 9, 2021 3:55 pm

SNPA wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
SNPA wrote:
Read on Twitter


Catch and pump fake going left, step in with a dribble, jump step back, fake pass right, instantly drop the three. Balance. He is a fantastically balanced player. Even on the move he uses his wingspan and legs to keep a balanced core.

To those that were worried about his shot, you can stop worrying.


What do you think his wingspan is? I think people have this incorrect notion that he has a 7' wingspan or something. It's 6'7.5". I mean it's fine. But it's not close to elite.

There has been a lot of chatter about this. What is your source?


That is what Mike Schmitz cited it as when he interviewed Haliburton. Would Haliburton have approved a nationally viewed interview if Schmitz was off by 5 inches? I don't think so. The "Haliburton 7' wingspan" was just never true. Fake news.
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Re: Haliburton 

Post#174 » by KembaWalker » Sat Jan 9, 2021 5:09 pm

like this kid, he's a bit more under control than Melo but he's a good bit older so that makes sense. look forward to their battle for ROY. though i don't think they be statistically very close once Melo starts getting 30+ minutes
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Re: Haliburton 

Post#175 » by SNPA » Sat Jan 9, 2021 6:33 pm

EvanZ wrote:
SNPA wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
What do you think his wingspan is? I think people have this incorrect notion that he has a 7' wingspan or something. It's 6'7.5". I mean it's fine. But it's not close to elite.

There has been a lot of chatter about this. What is your source?


That is what Mike Schmitz cited it as when he interviewed Haliburton. Would Haliburton have approved a nationally viewed interview if Schmitz was off by 5 inches? I don't think so. The "Haliburton 7' wingspan" was just never true. Fake news.


Ehhh...not convincing. The setup of that interview makes it so Tyrese didn’t see that graphic in real-time and I don’t think it was actually discussed (if I’m wrong and they talked about it let me know).

By looking at him I’d be shocked if his wingspan is that small. He looks a lot closer to Tyreke Evans type wingspan. I really wish someone would ask him.
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Re: Haliburton 

Post#176 » by EvanZ » Sat Jan 9, 2021 6:35 pm

SNPA wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
SNPA wrote:There has been a lot of chatter about this. What is your source?


That is what Mike Schmitz cited it as when he interviewed Haliburton. Would Haliburton have approved a nationally viewed interview if Schmitz was off by 5 inches? I don't think so. The "Haliburton 7' wingspan" was just never true. Fake news.


Ehhh...not convincing. The setup of that interview makes it so Tyrese didn’t see that graphic in real-time and I don’t think it was actually discussed (if I’m wrong and they talked about it let me know).

By looking at him I’d be shocked if his wingspan is that small. He looks a lot closer to Tyreke Evans type wingspan. I really wish someone would ask him.


Well you can believe what you want. Of course, the "7-foot wingspan" is not actually reported anywhere legit that I know of.

Even the NBA site has him at 6'7.5":

Standing 6-foot-5 with a lanky frame that is still filling out and a 6-foot-7.5 wingspan, Haliburton has terrific size for a point guard to go along with impressive quickness.


https://www.nba.com/draft/2020/prospects/tyrese-haliburton#:~:text=Standing%206%2Dfoot%2D5%20with,go%20along%20with%20impressive%20quickness.

It's annoying because i know people are citing an incorrect number and it's partly responsible for the hype. Similar to everyone saying Wiseman has a 9'6" standing reach when it's really more like 9'4" at best according to measurements.
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Re: Haliburton 

Post#177 » by SNPA » Sat Jan 9, 2021 7:02 pm

It’s interesting they used that number but it’s circle chasing. They didn’t cite where it came from. Who took that measurement, when and where? By the eye test saying Hali has a smaller than average ratio wingspan for an NBA player doesn’t line up. He looks long. He plays long. To convince me or others he has a relatively short wingspan needs some evidence beyond a random unsubstantiated internet number being rehashed by lazy writers.
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Re: Haliburton 

Post#178 » by EvanZ » Sat Jan 9, 2021 7:14 pm

SNPA wrote:It’s interesting they used that number but it’s circle chasing. They didn’t cite where it came from. Who took that measurement, when and where? By the eye test saying Hali has a smaller than average ratio wingspan for an NBA player doesn’t line up. He looks long. He plays long. To convince me or others he has a relatively short wingspan needs some evidence beyond a random unsubstantiated internet number being rehashed by lazy writers.


So the figure given by ESPN and the NBA website is bogus but the “7-foot” number you just heard somewhere is valid? Got it. Confirmation bias at its finest.
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Re: Haliburton 

Post#179 » by SNPA » Sat Jan 9, 2021 7:16 pm

EvanZ wrote:
SNPA wrote:It’s interesting they used that number but it’s circle chasing. They didn’t cite where it came from. Who took that measurement, when and where? By the eye test saying Hali has a smaller than average ratio wingspan for an NBA player doesn’t line up. He looks long. He plays long. To convince me or others he has a relatively short wingspan needs some evidence beyond a random unsubstantiated internet number being rehashed by lazy writers.


So the figure given by ESPN and the NBA website is bogus but the “7-foot” number you just heard somewhere is valid? Got it. Confirmation bias at its finest.

Lol. I want a legit source. I’ve said he looks longer than that. And he clearly does, only takes eyes.

You are claiming a specific number without a legit source, don’t get that confused. Where did they get that number? Original source?
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Re: Haliburton 

Post#180 » by 916fan » Sat Jan 9, 2021 9:48 pm

Another great game by Haliburton. 15pts 8asts 2rebs 2stls 1blk 1to on 50% FG. Should be noted, he would've had 18pts, but the refs reviewed the shot way after a play ended and determined that he stepped out of bounds before getting it off, thus giving him his only turnover in the game.

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