2021 NBA Draft

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Re: 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#1761 » by clyde21 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 4:24 pm

Upperclass wrote:Butler isnt an nba player.. Mitchell is barely an nba player. there were so many steals mitchell couldnt get to with his amazing anticipation .. because of his lack of length.. NBA guards will take him to the post and on offense he wont be able to score at the rim. Hes fun though.


terrible take per usual
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#1762 » by Fischella » Tue Apr 6, 2021 4:28 pm

MeloNY wrote:
Upperclass wrote:Butler isnt an nba player.. Mitchell is barely an nba player. there were so many steals mitchell couldnt get to with his amazing anticipation .. because of his lack of length.. NBA guards will take him to the post and on offense he wont be able to score at the rim. Hes fun though.


Disagree about Mitchell. He has an elite on ball defender and his bulk makes up for his lack of height. And on offense he's an elite ball handler who can take defenders off the dribble and can stroke it from deep. Don't sleep on this guy at the next level. The only knock is his age. 22.

Butler is an elite handler, Mitchell is average
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#1763 » by arbsn » Tue Apr 6, 2021 4:32 pm

I'd almost rather be in the 14-30 range in this draft than the 5-14. After the top 5 the projected lottery picks are no better than the latter part of the draft guys like
Moses Moody, Kispert, Wagner, Keon Johnson; Kai Jones

Id rather take a chance on Mitchell, Springer, Josh Giddey, Garuba

I really dont see any increase in value from the top to the bottom guys. Wagner (couldnt score in the most important game in his career?) and Kispert (will be 23 next year) particularly look like busts to me

Top 5 looks solid though
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#1764 » by clyde21 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 4:33 pm

Butler has + ball skills, great handle, can run half-court sets at a decent level, has requisite NBA athleticism, versatile scorer who isn't a negative defensively who can also play off-ball, productive

not sure what there is to overthink about Butler, not sure about his medical redflags haven't heard anything there, but there's no way he shouldn't be a first rounder given his skills and toolset at his position. a good 1st guard off the bench might be his baseline.
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#1765 » by CptCrunch » Tue Apr 6, 2021 4:53 pm

The yearly NCAA tourney reactionary takes are among the worst ways to evaluate prospects.

The poster child of this failed strategy is Derrick Williams who entire draft prospect was based on his dismantling of Duke and its NBA prospects in the tourney.

Actually the entire 2011 NBA draft was an experience in being unlucky, despite the same strategies of drafting players based on prototypes working much better in recent years (probably due to luck and marginally better scouting)
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#1766 » by clyde21 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 4:57 pm

arbsn wrote:I'd almost rather be in the 14-30 range in this draft than the 5-14. After the top 5 the projected lottery picks are no better than the latter part of the draft guys like
Moses Moody, Kispert, Wagner, Keon Johnson; Kai Jones

Id rather take a chance on Mitchell, Springer, Josh Giddey, Garuba

I really dont see any increase in value from the top to the bottom guys. Wagner (couldnt score in the most important game in his career?) and Kispert (will be 23 next year) particularly look like busts to me

Top 5 looks solid though


problem with your logic is that it's just as easily Springer goes 6th has much as 15th or 16, so you obviously would always rather have 6 and take whoever you like there, unless you guarantee they'll be there if you trade down.

after the top 5, there is no set tier or consensus tier, so yea, I personally have Springer 6th/7th overall, so he wouldn't be available to you in that range if it were up to me.
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#1767 » by rapstarter » Tue Apr 6, 2021 5:40 pm

CptCrunch wrote:The yearly NCAA tourney reactionary takes are among the worst ways to evaluate prospects.

The poster child of this failed strategy is Derrick Williams who entire draft prospect was based on his dismantling of Duke and its NBA prospects in the tourney.

Actually the entire 2011 NBA draft was an experience in being unlucky, despite the same strategies of drafting players based on prototypes working much better in recent years (probably due to luck and marginally better scouting)


I think that's kinda unfair on Derrick Williams. He was actually pretty damn good that year and his stock rose consistently.
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#1768 » by Stillwater » Tue Apr 6, 2021 6:23 pm

rapstarter wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:The yearly NCAA tourney reactionary takes are among the worst ways to evaluate prospects.

The poster child of this failed strategy is Derrick Williams who entire draft prospect was based on his dismantling of Duke and its NBA prospects in the tourney.

Actually the entire 2011 NBA draft was an experience in being unlucky, despite the same strategies of drafting players based on prototypes working much better in recent years (probably due to luck and marginally better scouting)


I think that's kinda unfair on Derrick Williams. He was actually pretty damn good that year and his stock rose consistently.

Yeah but there is a big difference between over drafting a good college player like Williams who was still very raw and picking one that you know has pro level skill beyond athleticism like the Mitchell's or Lillards of the draft
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#1769 » by clyde21 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 7:32 pm

Wasserman now has Mitchell 11th
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#1770 » by ruffian253 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 9:10 pm

Mitchell and Butler were tough last night and were grown men throughout the tournament. The only thing i can see holding them back is there height, but i dont see how Springer, Johnson, Cooper, Moody can be selected before either of Mitchell or Butler.

Maybe I like the proven winners as opposed to potential, but for some reason, there are always these overhyped freshman guards that get selected over the more proven upperclassmen and this year will be no different. Give me Butler, Mitchell, Kisper, Zigaroski (Creighton G) over any of the guards mentioned above.
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#1771 » by Neeva » Tue Apr 6, 2021 9:43 pm

arbsn wrote:I'd almost rather be in the 14-30 range in this draft than the 5-14. After the top 5 the projected lottery picks are no better than the latter part of the draft guys like
Moses Moody, Kispert, Wagner, Keon Johnson; Kai Jones

Id rather take a chance on Mitchell, Springer, Josh Giddey, Garuba

I really dont see any increase in value from the top to the bottom guys. Wagner (couldnt score in the most important game in his career?) and Kispert (will be 23 next year) particularly look like busts to me

Top 5 looks solid though


Same thing as last draft but more a top 2-3, but last draft seems deeper.
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#1772 » by Duke4life831 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 10:17 pm

Does anyone waste a pick on DJ Steward? 6'2 160 pounds, inconsistent shooter, quick but not a great athlete and not a good defender.

(still shocked he entered and hired an agent).
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#1773 » by Chuck Everett » Tue Apr 6, 2021 10:40 pm

Zegarowski is not an legit NBA prospect IMO. He is not/cannot play the point and he is small. He would need to play next to someone like Ben Simmons or Harden to even have a chance.
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#1774 » by basketballRob » Tue Apr 6, 2021 11:04 pm

Catchall wrote:
clyde21 wrote:Butler continues to be one of the most underrated players in the entire draft


He's this year's honorary George Hill comp.
Keon Johnson resembles George Hill.

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Re: 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#1775 » by Fischella » Tue Apr 6, 2021 11:46 pm

I like Steward in the late 2nd for a team with a big primary
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#1776 » by Almost Retired » Wed Apr 7, 2021 12:06 am

Catchall wrote:I don't think I'd take Davion Mitchell in the lottery, especially if he measures out small. I get that he's tough and he's got some burst, but tough, physical PGs can look good in the NCAA and pretty average in the league. Is his shiftiness and push off the dribble enough to separate him that much from a Jevon Carter or Pierre Jackson back in the day?


I disagree. He is EXACTLY what our team needs. He gives you everything we want in a PG and the contrasts with Coby could not be more glaring. Coby plays matador perimeter defense. Mitchell gets in the jocks of the guys he's guarding. And he's smart. He moves his feet pretty quick for a guy that could play outside linebacker. He uses those feet to stay in front of guys and to stop on a dime and draw charges. Mitchell was Defensive Player of the Year. And well earned. His defense is elite. Even when he's playing off ball. He has pretty quick hands. He pokes away a lot of balls yet he is not foul prone considering how incredibly active he is every minute he's on the court.

Coby is turnover prone and does not demonstrate a high degree of BBIQ. Mitchell is the complete opposite. His assist to turnover ratio is absolutely stellar. He sees the court very well on both ends. Turnovers are killing the Bulls. He'd help cut those turnover numbers right away.

And I don't see his physicality as a detriment. He's built to withstand the punishment of the NBA from Day 1. He clearly won the matchup with Suggs when they were matched against one another. I have no reason the doubt that his defense will translate to the NBA. And that is whether he measures out at 6'1" or 6"2.5" . Because he measures pretty tall if you add in heart and intensity.

I hope against hope that Ak can package Coby for the Pelican's 2nd First Round Pick and hope that Mitchell is still on the board. I think he's going to go somewhere between 9 and 14 depending on team needs. He is a ready made starter on Day 1 and would fill our biggest remaining need on a rookie scale contract. Paying him 1/3 of what Lonzo would cost us gives us more options to fill out the roster.
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#1777 » by Catchall » Wed Apr 7, 2021 1:50 am

rapstarter wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:The yearly NCAA tourney reactionary takes are among the worst ways to evaluate prospects.

The poster child of this failed strategy is Derrick Williams who entire draft prospect was based on his dismantling of Duke and its NBA prospects in the tourney.

Actually the entire 2011 NBA draft was an experience in being unlucky, despite the same strategies of drafting players based on prototypes working much better in recent years (probably due to luck and marginally better scouting)


I think that's kinda unfair on Derrick Williams. He was actually pretty damn good that year and his stock rose consistently.


I remember thinking that Thomas Robinson was the closest to a Karl Malone-type prospect I had seen in a long time.
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#1778 » by Catchall » Wed Apr 7, 2021 1:54 am

Almost Retired wrote:
Catchall wrote:I don't think I'd take Davion Mitchell in the lottery, especially if he measures out small. I get that he's tough and he's got some burst, but tough, physical PGs can look good in the NCAA and pretty average in the league. Is his shiftiness and push off the dribble enough to separate him that much from a Jevon Carter or Pierre Jackson back in the day?


I disagree. He is EXACTLY what our team needs. He gives you everything we want in a PG and the contrasts with Coby could not be more glaring. Coby plays matador perimeter defense. Mitchell gets in the jocks of the guys he's guarding. And he's smart. He moves his feet pretty quick for a guy that could play outside linebacker. He uses those feet to stay in front of guys and to stop on a dime and draw charges. Mitchell was Defensive Player of the Year. And well earned. His defense is elite. Even when he's playing off ball. He has pretty quick hands. He pokes away a lot of balls yet he is not foul prone considering how incredibly active he is every minute he's on the court.

Coby is turnover prone and does not demonstrate a high degree of BBIQ. Mitchell is the complete opposite. His assist to turnover ratio is absolutely stellar. He sees the court very well on both ends. Turnovers are killing the Bulls. He'd help cut those turnover numbers right away.

And I don't see his physicality as a detriment. He's built to withstand the punishment of the NBA from Day 1. He clearly won the matchup with Suggs when they were matched against one another. I have no reason the doubt that his defense will translate to the NBA. And that is whether he measures out at 6'1" or 6"2.5" . Because he measures pretty tall if you add in heart and intensity.

I hope against hope that Ak can package Coby for the Pelican's 2nd First Round Pick and hope that Mitchell is still on the board. I think he's going to go somewhere between 9 and 14 depending on team needs. He is a ready made starter on Day 1 and would fill our biggest remaining need on a rookie scale contract. Paying him 1/3 of what Lonzo would cost us gives us more options to fill out the roster.


I'm not comparing Mitchell to Coby White. I'm appraising Mitchell as a lottery pick. I'm not sold on it. For example, I'd rather have Giddey than Mitchell, and probably at least one of the Tennessee guys.
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#1779 » by Roddy B for 3 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 3:12 am

Asking non oversized guards to be consistently great defensive players 82 games a year + playoffs is asking ALOT.

Oversized guards can float through 3-4 minute stretches and rely on their physical advantages to help if the action comes to them. Undersized players have to be on alert 24/7. Imo.

Any NBA player that is below 6-5" and defense is their calling card, is a red flag imo. That doesn't mean their aren't exceptions.. I'm just saying more times than not a defense first player who is <6'5" won't be a star.
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#1780 » by Chuck Everett » Wed Apr 7, 2021 3:27 am

If Monte Morris can play in the NBA, so can Davion Mitchell. Hell, Dennis Smith Jr. was a lottery pick and he flat out sucks.

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