consensus big board -- who is #17?

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Who is #17?

abdoulaye n'doye
0
No votes
grant riller
0
No votes
jahmi'us ramsey
0
No votes
josh green
4
17%
leandro bolmaro
0
No votes
patrick williams
9
39%
paul reed
3
13%
precious achiuwa
2
9%
theo maledon
5
22%
zeke nnaji
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 23

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Re: consensus big board -- who is #17? 

Post#21 » by getrichordie » Fri May 29, 2020 9:05 am

Fischella wrote:
Catchall wrote:So in real life, just be aware that Saddiq Bey is going to be a top 20 pick. Jaden McDaniels, even if he falls, will be a top-25 pick. Listing guys like N'doye or Nnaji as top 20 or 25 picks reflects your own personal reality-distortion field.

I went with Patrick Williams again, who probably won't last beyond this spot in the actual draft. He's considered a late lottery pick by some teams.

I'm not sure what the point of this exercise is going forward if you're going to muck it up with your own assumptions. See if you can find any big board or mock draft that shows Ndoye or Nnaji getting picked in this range.

Nnaji is 100% going top25


Call me crazy but I think it is weird that Okongwu is getting so much more hype than Nnaji. I actually think Nnaji has a better chance to be a starter.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #17? 

Post#22 » by The-Power » Fri May 29, 2020 1:22 pm

Polls like those should always have an other option as well.

edit: Also, using ‘being the youngest’ as the tie breaker doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. People already factor age in when voting. I understand that this has to be settled somehow and the project needs to be moving but since it's not exactly a quickly moving project anyway it would have been better to create a quick 24 hour poll with the three players that are tied. Not that it all matters a lot, just a general remark on how best to run such polls.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #17? 

Post#23 » by Stillwater » Fri May 29, 2020 2:17 pm

getrichordie wrote:
Fischella wrote:
Catchall wrote:So in real life, just be aware that Saddiq Bey is going to be a top 20 pick. Jaden McDaniels, even if he falls, will be a top-25 pick. Listing guys like N'doye or Nnaji as top 20 or 25 picks reflects your own personal reality-distortion field.

I went with Patrick Williams again, who probably won't last beyond this spot in the actual draft. He's considered a late lottery pick by some teams.

I'm not sure what the point of this exercise is going forward if you're going to muck it up with your own assumptions. See if you can find any big board or mock draft that shows Ndoye or Nnaji getting picked in this range.

Nnaji is 100% going top25


Call me crazy but I think it is weird that Okongwu is getting so much more hype than Nnaji. I actually think Nnaji has a better chance to be a starter.

I imagine you to be a 5' nothing female who values size and youth as the keys to success more than skill and athleticism.
Okongwu is 1000x better prospect than the skinny garbage man.
The way you have basically lived on here and played the "act as if " game with obvious clues your incapable of actual scouting of prospects , makes coming here far less interesting.
I suggest you grab a pencil and write down the reasons why you try so hard to disagree with everyone to the point of trying to sell some of these crap fringe nba prospects as real options.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #17? 

Post#24 » by clyde21 » Fri May 29, 2020 4:54 pm

1. you always gotta have an 'other' option...like the idea that N'Doye should be on there instead of an Other option is crazy

2. if a player gets 0 votes the last round, he should be rotated out...if Riller got 0 votes and McDaniels got at least 1, it's Riller who should have been rotated out
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #17? 

Post#25 » by getrichordie » Fri May 29, 2020 7:10 pm

Stillwater wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
Fischella wrote:Nnaji is 100% going top25


Call me crazy but I think it is weird that Okongwu is getting so much more hype than Nnaji. I actually think Nnaji has a better chance to be a starter.

I imagine you to be a 5' nothing female who values size and youth as the keys to success more than skill and athleticism.
Okongwu is 1000x better prospect than the skinny garbage man.
The way you have basically lived on here and played the "act as if " game with obvious clues your incapable of actual scouting of prospects , makes coming here far less interesting.
I suggest you grab a pencil and write down the reasons why you try so hard to disagree with everyone to the point of trying to sell some of these crap fringe nba prospects as real options.
No hard feelings i got none left to give


You must live a sad life if you have to be this disrespectful when someone has a different viewpoint than you.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #17? 

Post#26 » by getrichordie » Fri May 29, 2020 7:53 pm

The-Power wrote:Polls like those should always have an other option as well.

edit: Also, using ‘being the youngest’ as the tie breaker doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. People already factor age in when voting. I understand that this has to be settled somehow and the project needs to be moving but since it's not exactly a quickly moving project anyway it would have been better to create a quick 24 hour poll with the three players that are tied. Not that it all matters a lot, just a general remark on how best to run such polls.


What would you use as the tie breaker then if we aren't doing a quick 24 hour poll? Don't like that idea at all. Too much work.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #17? 

Post#27 » by clyde21 » Fri May 29, 2020 7:58 pm

having a run off with the top vote getters works really well if u want to do the extra polls

otherwise the tie breaker would be the next vote, or if someone wants to change their vote to move the poll along.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #17? 

Post#28 » by getrichordie » Fri May 29, 2020 9:16 pm

clyde21 wrote:having a run off with the top vote getters works really well if u want to do the extra polls

otherwise the tie breaker would be the next vote, or if someone wants to change their vote to move the poll along.


I agree that's probably better. Not a fan of waiting though. I'm in favor of speed.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #17? 

Post#29 » by DeBlazerRiddem » Fri May 29, 2020 9:24 pm

getrichordie wrote:
clyde21 wrote:having a run off with the top vote getters works really well if u want to do the extra polls

otherwise the tie breaker would be the next vote, or if someone wants to change their vote to move the poll along.


I agree that's probably better. Not a fan of waiting though. I'm in favor of speed.


There's a poll option to allow revoting, that would let people change their vote.


I can be convinced P Will is a good choice here. Nice mix of decently high floor and decently high ceiling. Not sure he will be the best player picked after 17 but its a sensible choice.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #17? 

Post#30 » by getrichordie » Fri May 29, 2020 9:26 pm

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
clyde21 wrote:having a run off with the top vote getters works really well if u want to do the extra polls

otherwise the tie breaker would be the next vote, or if someone wants to change their vote to move the poll along.


I agree that's probably better. Not a fan of waiting though. I'm in favor of speed.


There's a poll option to allow revoting, that would let people change their vote.


I can be convinced P Will is a good choice here. Nice mix of decently high floor and decently high ceiling. Not sure he will be the best player picked after 17 but its a sensible choice.


Fair point. I'll open things up to allow re-voting in next poll and add "other" option.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #17? 

Post#31 » by RiotPunch » Fri May 29, 2020 9:28 pm

PatWill again but I see you, Riller.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #17? 

Post#32 » by DeBlazerRiddem » Fri May 29, 2020 9:29 pm

getrichordie wrote:
Fischella wrote:
Catchall wrote:So in real life, just be aware that Saddiq Bey is going to be a top 20 pick. Jaden McDaniels, even if he falls, will be a top-25 pick. Listing guys like N'doye or Nnaji as top 20 or 25 picks reflects your own personal reality-distortion field.

I went with Patrick Williams again, who probably won't last beyond this spot in the actual draft. He's considered a late lottery pick by some teams.

I'm not sure what the point of this exercise is going forward if you're going to muck it up with your own assumptions. See if you can find any big board or mock draft that shows Ndoye or Nnaji getting picked in this range.

Nnaji is 100% going top25


Call me crazy but I think it is weird that Okongwu is getting so much more hype than Nnaji. I actually think Nnaji has a better chance to be a starter.


Nnaji has such a low block rate and doesn't create offense for himself. I just cant see him being more than a backup garbage man. Bad block/foul ratio, bad block/steal rates, bad assist and turnover rates, just some huge red flags for me translating to the next level. He's got a decent little shot so not saying he isn't league material but just looks like a guy I would want coming off the bench for 3-5 million.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #17? 

Post#33 » by getrichordie » Fri May 29, 2020 9:51 pm

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
Fischella wrote:Nnaji is 100% going top25


Call me crazy but I think it is weird that Okongwu is getting so much more hype than Nnaji. I actually think Nnaji has a better chance to be a starter.


Nnaji has such a low block rate and doesn't create offense for himself. I just cant see him being more than a backup garbage man. Bad block/foul ratio, bad block/steal rates, bad assist and turnover rates, just some huge red flags for me translating to the next level.


If the block rate is too high, people will say they are the next Hassan Whiteside. If block rate is too low, then it's not good enough. I just have concerns about Okongwu's fit in the NBA as a low-post scorer. Nnaji can at least stretch the defense with his mid-range shooting and he's a good defender in space.

Also, Nnaji's rim protection and general post defense can certainly improve at the next level. He's same as OO and has shown more offensive versatility and even has added value as a potential 3-pt shooter.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #17? 

Post#34 » by Sir-Swish-A-Lot » Fri May 29, 2020 10:50 pm

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
Fischella wrote:Nnaji is 100% going top25


Call me crazy but I think it is weird that Okongwu is getting so much more hype than Nnaji. I actually think Nnaji has a better chance to be a starter.


Nnaji has such a low block rate and doesn't create offense for himself. I just cant see him being more than a backup garbage man. Bad block/foul ratio, bad block/steal rates, bad assist and turnover rates, just some huge red flags for me translating to the next level. He's got a decent little shot so not saying he isn't league material but just looks like a guy I would want coming off the bench for 3-5 million.

Isaiah Stewart is a better player than both Nnaji and Okongwu as he outplayed both of them everytime that they matched up in Pac-12 games.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #17? 

Post#35 » by DeBlazerRiddem » Fri May 29, 2020 10:54 pm

getrichordie wrote:
DeBlazerRiddem wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
Call me crazy but I think it is weird that Okongwu is getting so much more hype than Nnaji. I actually think Nnaji has a better chance to be a starter.


Nnaji has such a low block rate and doesn't create offense for himself. I just cant see him being more than a backup garbage man. Bad block/foul ratio, bad block/steal rates, bad assist and turnover rates, just some huge red flags for me translating to the next level.


If the block rate is too high, people will say they are the next Hassan Whiteside. If block rate is too low, then it's not good enough. I just have concerns about Okongwu's fit in the NBA as a low-post scorer. Nnaji can at least stretch the defense with his mid-range shooting and he's a good defender in space.

Also, Nnaji's rim protection and general post defense can certainly improve at the next level. He's same as OO and has shown more offensive versatility and even has added value as a potential 3-pt shooter.


Could be but I still think he wont ever stand out at any one particular thing, it takes a bit of optimism to even see him as a Jason Thompson type player. I feel pretty comfortable predicting Okongwu to be a standout defender from day one, and then I know you probably disagree but I think Okongwu actually has more untapped offensive potential than Nnaji as well. Not in the the post but neither guy is going to be a "throw it down low to them" type anyways.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #17? 

Post#36 » by getrichordie » Fri May 29, 2020 11:00 pm

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
DeBlazerRiddem wrote:
Nnaji has such a low block rate and doesn't create offense for himself. I just cant see him being more than a backup garbage man. Bad block/foul ratio, bad block/steal rates, bad assist and turnover rates, just some huge red flags for me translating to the next level.


If the block rate is too high, people will say they are the next Hassan Whiteside. If block rate is too low, then it's not good enough. I just have concerns about Okongwu's fit in the NBA as a low-post scorer. Nnaji can at least stretch the defense with his mid-range shooting and he's a good defender in space.

Also, Nnaji's rim protection and general post defense can certainly improve at the next level. He's same as OO and has shown more offensive versatility and even has added value as a potential 3-pt shooter.


Could be but I still think he wont ever stand out at any one particular thing, it takes a bit of optimism to even see him as a Jason Thompson type player. I feel pretty comfortable predicting Okongwu to be a standout defender from day one, and then I know you probably disagree but I think Okongwu actually has more untapped offensive potential than Nnaji as well. Not in the the post but neither guy is going to be a "throw it down low to them" type anyways.


What leads you to believe that OO has untapped offensive potential? You don't think Nnaji has untapped offensive potential? Just look at his scouting video. The first play shows you a lot. Face up potential. He has a lot of the same moves as OO in the post, too. He has some things he needs to clean up just like every prospect in this draft does, but the potential should be clear to anyone who has seen his tape.



I mean Nnaji has some footwork and defensive things to work on in the post, but you have to be optimistic about that due to his footwork and ability to defend in space. I think he has more positional versatility as well. I feel more confident about Nnaji being able to play some 4 than I do Okongwu.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #17? 

Post#37 » by getrichordie » Fri May 29, 2020 11:07 pm

Also, IIRC, Nnaji's FTr is significantly higher than OOs. By like 13 percentage points. He's a better free throw shooter too.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #17? 

Post#38 » by DeBlazerRiddem » Sat May 30, 2020 12:14 am

getrichordie wrote:What leads you to believe that OO has untapped offensive potential? You don't think Nnaji has untapped offensive potential? Just look at his scouting video. The first play shows you a lot. Face up potential. He has a lot of the same moves as OO in the post, too. He has some things he needs to clean up just like every prospect in this draft does, but the potential should be clear to anyone who has seen his tape.

I mean Nnaji has some footwork and defensive things to work on in the post, but you have to be optimistic about that due to his footwork and ability to defend in space. I think he has more positional versatility as well. I feel more confident about Nnaji being able to play some 4 than I do Okongwu.


I didn't say Nnaji doesn't have it. Both have pretty simple offensive games and wont be asked to do too much at the next level. What they will be asked to do is score hustle points and I think Okongwu's athletic tools give him the advantage there for contributing with things like being a lob threat, roll man, offensive rebounds, back-door cuts. Nnaji does have a better shot but Okongwu is way quicker and more explosive out of the post and on the floor.

A lot of it comes down to physical traits, Okongwu will still be an athletic mismatch at the next level but Nnaji wont be bigger and stronger than most the players he will be going against. And Nnaji isn't a good enough shooter to make up for that in my opinion. Happy to be wrong, always love to see underrated players be successful.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #17? 

Post#39 » by getrichordie » Sat May 30, 2020 12:28 am

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:
getrichordie wrote:What leads you to believe that OO has untapped offensive potential? You don't think Nnaji has untapped offensive potential? Just look at his scouting video. The first play shows you a lot. Face up potential. He has a lot of the same moves as OO in the post, too. He has some things he needs to clean up just like every prospect in this draft does, but the potential should be clear to anyone who has seen his tape.

I mean Nnaji has some footwork and defensive things to work on in the post, but you have to be optimistic about that due to his footwork and ability to defend in space. I think he has more positional versatility as well. I feel more confident about Nnaji being able to play some 4 than I do Okongwu.


I didn't say Nnaji doesn't have it. Both have pretty simple offensive games and wont be asked to do too much at the next level. What they will be asked to do is score hustle points and I think Okongwu's athletic tools give him the advantage there for contributing with things like being a lob threat, roll man, offensive rebounds, back-door cuts. Nnaji does have a better shot but Okongwu is way quicker and more explosive out of the post and on the floor.

A lot of it comes down to physical traits, Okongwu will still be an athletic mismatch at the next level but Nnaji wont be bigger and stronger than most the players he will be going against. And Nnaji isn't a good enough shooter to make up for that in my opinion. Happy to be wrong, always love to see underrated players be successful.


All fair points. Nnaji is only 5 pounds from being the same weight as Okongwu, but I agree that he doesn’t have same strength or athleticism. I guess I’m just buying his shooting and ability to generate free throws more as well as be the better defender in space, though I don’t think Okongwu will be bad in space.

By the way, is block/foul ratio a thing? Or are you saying both Nnaji’s block AND foul ratio is poor? Because Nnaji actually commits less fouls per 100 possessions than Okongwu.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #17? 

Post#40 » by HeadtopChunes » Sat May 30, 2020 12:35 am

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
DeBlazerRiddem wrote:
Nnaji has such a low block rate and doesn't create offense for himself. I just cant see him being more than a backup garbage man. Bad block/foul ratio, bad block/steal rates, bad assist and turnover rates, just some huge red flags for me translating to the next level.


If the block rate is too high, people will say they are the next Hassan Whiteside. If block rate is too low, then it's not good enough. I just have concerns about Okongwu's fit in the NBA as a low-post scorer. Nnaji can at least stretch the defense with his mid-range shooting and he's a good defender in space.

Also, Nnaji's rim protection and general post defense can certainly improve at the next level. He's same as OO and has shown more offensive versatility and even has added value as a potential 3-pt shooter.


Could be but I still think he wont ever stand out at any one particular thing, it takes a bit of optimism to even see him as a Jason Thompson type player. I feel pretty comfortable predicting Okongwu to be a standout defender from day one, and then I know you probably disagree but I think Okongwu actually has more untapped offensive potential than Nnaji as well. Not in the the post but neither guy is going to be a "throw it down low to them" type anyways.



I think Nnaji’s possible standout skill would be his PnR defense. He’s the most mobile “big” in the class imo. I think his PnR defense is pretty good already and he should be able to switch 3-5 in the league.

Concerning his rim protection theres a couple confounding factors there even though he probably still won’t be a good rim protector. Sean Miller’s 2 big system in Arizona does suppress block numbers especially with Nnaji playing 4 alot. (We saw similar with Ayton)

I do think theres a concern with physicality with Nnaji and how that might translate. But he is pretty young and strength gains could get him to be maybe a Cody Zeller/ Richaun Holmes type defender.

I think comparing him with OO, Nnaji is probably the superior shooting prospect with comparable finishing numbers. But i do think OO is a better bet to create (shown some passing and scoring flashes Nnaji hasn’t)

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