consensus big board -- who is #22?

[getrichordie]

Grant Riller earns 5 votes and locks down the 22 spot while Stewart, Achiuwa, Bey (Saddiq), and Maledon each tie for 3 votes.

Taking out Carey Jr. since I think it is obvious he isn't going this high and hasn't earned many votes.

Added Zeke Nnaji.
Added Leandro Bolmaro.

current consensus big board:

Spoiler:

1. Anthony Edwards
2. LaMelo Ball
3. James Wiseman
4. Killian Hayes
5. Deni Avdija
6. Tyrese Haliburton
7. Isaac Okoro
8. Cole Anthony
9. Onyeka Okongwu
10. Devin Vassell
11. Obi Toppin
12. R.J. Hampton
13. Tyrese Maxey
14. Kira Lewis Jr.
15. Aaron Nesmith
16. Aleksej Pokusevski
17. Patrick Williams
18. Josh Green
19. Jaden McDaniels
20. Paul Reed
21. Grant Riller
22. ?

Who is going to be #22?

DO NOT FORGET TO POST REASONING BEHIND SELECTION.

[clyde21]

still Stewy and then T Bey

i mean, at some point you gotta go Stewy, elite wingspan with 3 level mobility, plus shot blocker, aggro in the paint, in conference play got to the line over 10 times a game and converted at near 80%, his 3 point shooting improved as well, in conf play shot 33% from 3 at over an attempt a game, hella young, productive, toolsy...at the very least he's a Bob Williams type guy off the bench

[getrichordie]

still Stewy and then T Bey

i mean, at some point you gotta go Stewy, elite wingspan with 3 level mobility, plus shot blocker, aggro in the paint, in conference play got to the line over 10 times a game and converted at near 80%, his 3 point shooting improved as well, in conf play shot 33% from 3 at over an attempt a game, hella young, productive, toolsy...at the very least he's a Bob Williams type guy off the bench

Evidence? I have seen zero evidence of 3-level mobility out of Stewart, let alone 2-level.

[clyde21]

still Stewy and then T Bey

i mean, at some point you gotta go Stewy, elite wingspan with 3 level mobility, plus shot blocker, aggro in the paint, in conference play got to the line over 10 times a game and converted at near 80%, his 3 point shooting improved as well, in conf play shot 33% from 3 at over an attempt a game, hella young, productive, toolsy...at the very least he's a Bob Williams type guy off the bench

Evidence? I have seen zero evidence of 3-level mobility out of Stewart, let alone 2-level.

what kinda evidence do u want? watch his games. he can rotate 3 levels at a plus level for a big, he's lightfooted with decent hips, he can cover the elbows and switch inside for the help side block easily, and does it all the time, has no issues covering stretch bigs on the perimeter either.

[getrichordie]

still Stewy and then T Bey

i mean, at some point you gotta go Stewy, elite wingspan with 3 level mobility, plus shot blocker, aggro in the paint, in conference play got to the line over 10 times a game and converted at near 80%, his 3 point shooting improved as well, in conf play shot 33% from 3 at over an attempt a game, hella young, productive, toolsy...at the very least he's a Bob Williams type guy off the bench

Evidence? I have seen zero evidence of 3-level mobility out of Stewart, let alone 2-level.

what kinda evidence do u want? watch his games. he can rotate 3 levels at a plus level for a big, he's lightfooted with decent hips, he can cover the elbows and switch inside for the help side block easily, and does it all the time, has no issues covering stretch bigs on the perimeter either.

Washington plays zone. It's very rare to see Stewart out in space or on perimeter. I was the biggest proponent of Stewart, too. I have watched his scouting tape. All of it. While specifically looking for signs of defense/footwork on perimeter. And I just didn't see it.

[Sir-Swish-A-Lot]

Isaiah Stewart is a certified first round 2020 NBA draft pick he will most likely get drafted somewhere in the top 20...recognize game. He has the best hands of any big man in this draft. He is built like a tank. Has a great touch around the basket. Has a high basketball IQ. Is relentless on both ends of the court. And has only scratched the surface of his physical abilities. Any team that drafts him will be getting a quality person off of the court that doesn't drink nor smoke nor is into the club scene but is focused on getting better at his craft. Barring injuries he will be a force to be reckoned with in the NBA for a long time.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[RiotPunch]

Bolmaro for me now that Riller is finally off the board.

One of the best advantage creators in the class, very manipulative as a passer, excellent in transition. Great POA defense and very good off-ball being disruptive to passing lanes. I buy the shot coming along, and think he is athletic enough to take a chance on. Have to account for his high-end outcome, which is higher than anyone left, IMO.

[getrichordie]

Bolmaro for me now that Riller is finally off the board.

One of the best advantage creators in the class, very manipulative as a passer, excellent in transition. Great POA defense and very good off-ball being disruptive to passing lanes. I buy the shot coming along, and think he is athletic enough to take a chance on. Have to account for his high-end outcome, which is higher than anyone left, IMO.

Talk me into this. If his strength is as an advantage creator, what is he doing with that creation ability? Assist metrics aren't great. His FG% is decent but how much of that is at rim vs. mid-range? FT shooting looks poor, too (66% over last two season on 100 attempts).

Where I do buy Bolmaro's value is as a big guard who can defend 1-3. His defensive metrics jump out at you and the tape supports this.

I also buy his ability to push the ball in transition and I'm buying his motor.

Not buying the shot, tbh. I think if Bolmaro is 6'3, we aren't talking about him at all. Also, I have him at 6'5 just going off eye test and what ESL has on record. Everyone seems to think he is 6'7, though. I'd take a flyer on him in late first/early second.

Maledon is just superior across the board on offensive end vs. tougher competition (give slight to edge to Bolmaro on vision/passing skills) and while he doesn't bring same defensive value, I think he'll be perfectly average, maybe slightly above. I do think Bolmaro has higher upside, but also has lower floor.

[Catchall]

Bolmaro for me now that Riller is finally off the board.

One of the best advantage creators in the class, very manipulative as a passer, excellent in transition. Great POA defense and very good off-ball being disruptive to passing lanes. I buy the shot coming along, and think he is athletic enough to take a chance on. Have to account for his high-end outcome, which is higher than anyone left, IMO.

Talk me into this. If his strength is as an advantage creator, what is he doing with that creation ability? Assist metrics aren't great. His FG% is decent but how much of that is at rim vs. mid-range? FT shooting looks poor, too (66% over last two season on 100 attempts).

Where I do buy Bolmaro's value is as a big guard who can defend 1-3. His defensive metrics jump out at you and the tape supports this.

I also buy his ability to push the ball in transition and I'm buying his motor.

Not buying the shot, tbh. I think if Bolmaro is 6'3, we aren't talking about him at all. Also, I have him at 6'5 just going off eye test and what ESL has on record. Everyone seems to think he is 6'7, though. I'd take a flyer on him in late first/early second.

Maledon is just superior across the board on offensive end vs. tougher competition (give slight to edge to Bolmaro on vision/passing skills) and while he doesn't bring same defensive value, I think he'll be perfectly average, maybe slightly above. I do think Bolmaro has higher upside, but also has lower floor.

The appeal of Bolmaro is that he's a Gordon Hayward-sized wing with the skills to be a solid creator out of the pick-and-roll. That type of player can have a significant impact on the game. Plus, he's a tenaciously competitive defender, both on ball and in team defense.

He's shown an above-average handle for a player his size, good change of direction and use of hesitations, along with very advanced timing and feel for passing with either hand. He's shown some ability to finish at the rim, though he hasn't gotten there consistently. He's shown enough flashes to make people believe in his upside.

Regarding his shooting, he shoots without hesitation out to 27 or 28 feet. His motion hasn't been consistent, but that's something that can be fixed. He should be able to hit a decent percentage of his spot-ups, and he's shown touch from mid-range off the dribble. He shot the ball pretty well at the Nike Hoop Summit two years ago and has good touch if he can be consistent with his form.

When Gordon Hayward first came into the league from Butler, he was a skinny 6'7" kid with a very basic handle, a first step that was average at best, and what appeared to be middling athleticism. He had shot 29% from the college 3pt line the year before. Yet he was a guard with size, with high IQ and advanced feel for the game. That gave him a foundation to build upon. He started as a spot-up shooter, and by his third year became a legit triple-threat player who could play on the ball.

Compared to Hayward, Bolmaro has slightly better speed, a better handle, better passing, and the same quick feet, loose hips and advanced timing that Hayward had on defense. He needs to get stronger and get his shooting consistent. Then his game should open up.

[getrichordie]

Spoiler:

Bolmaro for me now that Riller is finally off the board.

One of the best advantage creators in the class, very manipulative as a passer, excellent in transition. Great POA defense and very good off-ball being disruptive to passing lanes. I buy the shot coming along, and think he is athletic enough to take a chance on. Have to account for his high-end outcome, which is higher than anyone left, IMO.

Talk me into this. If his strength is as an advantage creator, what is he doing with that creation ability? Assist metrics aren't great. His FG% is decent but how much of that is at rim vs. mid-range? FT shooting looks poor, too (66% over last two season on 100 attempts).

Where I do buy Bolmaro's value is as a big guard who can defend 1-3. His defensive metrics jump out at you and the tape supports this.

I also buy his ability to push the ball in transition and I'm buying his motor.

Not buying the shot, tbh. I think if Bolmaro is 6'3, we aren't talking about him at all. Also, I have him at 6'5 just going off eye test and what ESL has on record. Everyone seems to think he is 6'7, though. I'd take a flyer on him in late first/early second.

Maledon is just superior across the board on offensive end vs. tougher competition (give slight to edge to Bolmaro on vision/passing skills) and while he doesn't bring same defensive value, I think he'll be perfectly average, maybe slightly above. I do think Bolmaro has higher upside, but also has lower floor.

The appeal of Bolmaro is that he's a Gordon Hayward-sized wing with the skills to be a solid creator out of the pick-and-roll. That type of player can have a significant impact on the game. Plus, he's a tenaciously competitive defender, both on ball and in team defense.

He's shown an above-average handle for a player his size, good change of direction and use of hesitations, along with very advanced timing and feel for passing with either hand. He's shown some ability to finish at the rim, though he hasn't gotten there consistently. He's shown enough flashes to make people believe in his upside.

Regarding his shooting, he shoots without hesitation out to 27 or 28 feet. His motion hasn't been consistent, but that's something that can be fixed. He should be able to hit a decent percentage of his spot-ups, and he's shown touch from mid-range off the dribble. He shot the ball pretty well at the Nike Hoop Summit two years ago and has good touch if he can be consistent with his form.

When Gordon Hayward first came into the league from Butler, he was a skinny 6'7" kid with a very basic handle, a first step that was average at best, and what appeared to be middling athleticism. He had shot 29% from the college 3pt line the year before. Yet he was a guard with size, with high IQ and advanced feel for the game. That gave him a foundation to build upon. He started as a spot-up shooter, and by his third year became a legit triple-threat player who could play on the ball.

Compared to Hayward, Bolmaro has slightly better speed, a better handle, better passing, and the same quick feet, loose hips and advanced timing that Hayward had on defense. He needs to get stronger and get his shooting consistent. Then his game should open up.

I get that he projects to be a good defender, but we need to come back down to earth on his shooting. He's not a good shooter and doesn't project to be. Can he get better? Yes. Anyone can. Will he is the big question. Because if he can't shoot, he doesn't hold much value at this range.

And like I said, I'm looking at Bolmaro as a 6'5 guard. You can't convince me he is 6'7.

[Catchall]

Spoiler:

Talk me into this. If his strength is as an advantage creator, what is he doing with that creation ability? Assist metrics aren't great. His FG% is decent but how much of that is at rim vs. mid-range? FT shooting looks poor, too (66% over last two season on 100 attempts).

Where I do buy Bolmaro's value is as a big guard who can defend 1-3. His defensive metrics jump out at you and the tape supports this.

I also buy his ability to push the ball in transition and I'm buying his motor.

Not buying the shot, tbh. I think if Bolmaro is 6'3, we aren't talking about him at all. Also, I have him at 6'5 just going off eye test and what ESL has on record. Everyone seems to think he is 6'7, though. I'd take a flyer on him in late first/early second.

Maledon is just superior across the board on offensive end vs. tougher competition (give slight to edge to Bolmaro on vision/passing skills) and while he doesn't bring same defensive value, I think he'll be perfectly average, maybe slightly above. I do think Bolmaro has higher upside, but also has lower floor.

The appeal of Bolmaro is that he's a Gordon Hayward-sized wing with the skills to be a solid creator out of the pick-and-roll. That type of player can have a significant impact on the game. Plus, he's a tenaciously competitive defender, both on ball and in team defense.

He's shown an above-average handle for a player his size, good change of direction and use of hesitations, along with very advanced timing and feel for passing with either hand. He's shown some ability to finish at the rim, though he hasn't gotten there consistently. He's shown enough flashes to make people believe in his upside.

Regarding his shooting, he shoots without hesitation out to 27 or 28 feet. His motion hasn't been consistent, but that's something that can be fixed. He should be able to hit a decent percentage of his spot-ups, and he's shown touch from mid-range off the dribble. He shot the ball pretty well at the Nike Hoop Summit two years ago and has good touch if he can be consistent with his form.

When Gordon Hayward first came into the league from Butler, he was a skinny 6'7" kid with a very basic handle, a first step that was average at best, and what appeared to be middling athleticism. He had shot 29% from the college 3pt line the year before. Yet he was a guard with size, with high IQ and advanced feel for the game. That gave him a foundation to build upon. He started as a spot-up shooter, and by his third year became a legit triple-threat player who could play on the ball.

Compared to Hayward, Bolmaro has slightly better speed, a better handle, better passing, and the same quick feet, loose hips and advanced timing that Hayward had on defense. He needs to get stronger and get his shooting consistent. Then his game should open up.

I get that he projects to be a good defender, but we need to come back down to earth on his shooting. He's not a good shooter and doesn't project to be. Can he get better? Yes. Anyone can. Will he is the big question. Because if he can't shoot, he doesn't hold much value at this range.

And like I said, I'm looking at Bolmaro as a 6'5 guard. You can't convince me he is 6'7.

Suit yourself.

[RiotPunch]

Bolmaro for me now that Riller is finally off the board.

One of the best advantage creators in the class, very manipulative as a passer, excellent in transition. Great POA defense and very good off-ball being disruptive to passing lanes. I buy the shot coming along, and think he is athletic enough to take a chance on. Have to account for his high-end outcome, which is higher than anyone left, IMO.

Talk me into this. If his strength is as an advantage creator, what is he doing with that creation ability? Assist metrics aren't great. His FG% is decent but how much of that is at rim vs. mid-range? FT shooting looks poor, too (66% over last two season on 100 attempts).

Where I do buy Bolmaro's value is as a big guard who can defend 1-3. His defensive metrics jump out at you and the tape supports this.

I also buy his ability to push the ball in transition and I'm buying his motor.

Not buying the shot, tbh. I think if Bolmaro is 6'3, we aren't talking about him at all. Also, I have him at 6'5 just going off eye test and what ESL has on record. Everyone seems to think he is 6'7, though. I'd take a flyer on him in late first/early second.

Maledon is just superior across the board on offensive end vs. tougher competition (give slight to edge to Bolmaro on vision/passing skills) and while he doesn't bring same defensive value, I think he'll be perfectly average, maybe slightly above. I do think Bolmaro has higher upside, but also has lower floor.

I'll let P.D. Web do the selling here because he sold me on Bolmaro with this writeup:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ivUubNMnG3rVIe0fD2zCfm_Na4Q2gasd5VyMDEi-oms/edit

It's a long read, but worth it (he has several for free on his patreon if you're not familiar)

He does not come without red flags, as is the reality in this range, but his shooting deficiencies are potentially correctable. His consistent advantage creation, his understanding of passing angles / delivering every pass you could want, paired with his ability to slide 1-3 defensively and produce turnovers makes for a bet worth making.

I believe how Bolmaro moves with the ball in his hands is a rare trait at 6’6, and when combined with his defensive floor game makes for true upside. Betting on movement skills, advantage creation and the ability to slide with multiple positions is a worthwhile gamble in a class that lacks players with high end tail outcomes. Bolmaro may totally flame out, he may also be able to be a versatile G/F creation piece in a playoff team.

[RiotPunch]

Also, Isaiah Stewart has no business being considered in the 1st round, IMO.

[a-French-Fan]

Malédon is becoming a steal

[No-Man]

It's Bolmaro for me, although Tre Jones is close enough

[getrichordie]

Also, Isaiah Stewart has no business being considered in the 1st round, IMO.

I agree with you here.

And man the disrespect that Maledon is getting is unreal

[Catchall]

I agree that Maledon is being overlooked. He should have gone in the 16 - 20 range. There are just so many guards in this draft, that a couple of them are going to slip.

[clyde21]

Maledon way overrated

it's Stewy, Bey and then Bolmaro

[DeBlazerRiddem]

I voted Maledon but I like Bolmaro here too. This board is way lower on Achiuwa than most mock drafts, although since I'm not a big fan I haven't really been pushing to get him on the board.

Looks like Saddiq is running away with it. I don't hate the pick, I feel he has a decent floor for a playoff team drafting in the 20's, but this is a bit earlier than I would go for him. I am still undecided which Bey I like more as an NBA prospect even though they are quite different as players.

Stewart is late first/early second for me. Hustle bigs always have a place in the league but I don't like drafting them myself because they require a few years seasoning before they can have an Ed Davis like impact, so let someone else draft them and then pick them up on their second contract.

[Catchall]

I voted Maledon but I like Bolmaro here too. This board is way lower on Achiuwa than most mock drafts, although since I'm not a big fan I haven't really been pushing to get him on the board.

Looks like Saddiq is running away with it. I don't hate the pick, I feel he has a decent floor for a playoff team drafting in the 20's, but this is a bit earlier than I would go for him. I am still undecided which Bey I like more as an NBA prospect even though they are quite different as players.

Stewart is late first/early second for me. Hustle bigs always have a place in the league but I don't like drafting them myself because they require a few years seasoning before they can have an Ed Davis like impact, so let someone else draft them and then pick them up on their second contract.

I think Achiuwa is ultimately a 5 in the modern NBA, and probably a backup 5 at that. If teams believe he can develop his shooting, then that moves him up. Until then, I think his role is like Faried, Montrez or Nene. He'll be good in that role, but backup bigs don't tend to get drafted very high. There just isn't enough shooting or passing right now. The right team could probably make him a successful pick-and-roll finisher, like Dwight Powell in Dallas.

Tyler Bey strikes me as being like Larry Nance, a defensive-minded forward, unless he's about to show more ability to play on the wing that he hasn't yet shown at age 22. He has the body of Trevor Ariza, but doesn't have the game.