consensus big board -- who is #23?

[hugepatsfan]

Also, mark my words: Achiuwa will be drafted before Saddiq, McDaniels, Reed, and Riller. Period.

You can bookmark that and save it for future or whatever.

Achiuwa should have been gone. He’s the most mobile big in this class by a mile. I have seen this man play post D, strip the ball, and take it coast to coast all by himself. Very very few big men are capable of such plays. That’s rare.

FT% and 3P% isn’t great but I buy him improving enough to where he’s a threat because his form looks really good. He just has to work on consistency.

His skill set and archetype is so valuable in today’s league. Not many big man can switch out on to the perimeter and hold their own. He projects to be able to do so with the right coaching. His problem isn’t lateral slides or not enough burst or recovery issues, it’s reads. That’s fixable.

Give me the guy who’s floor is:

+ plus rim-runner
+ 3-level defender
+ rebounding machine

Averaged 16 and 11 w/ 3 stocks in 30 minutes and a .500+ FTr for the cherry on top.

I love Achiuwa for Boston if he makes it to 17. I think he can grow into a beautiful compliment to Kemba/Brown/Hayward/Tatum at the 5. The jump shot doesn't need to be elite with the other things he brings. I think he'll be a great rim runner like you said. I also think his passing will be better at the NBA level where there's more space for him to use and he has better talent around him.

[Ruzious]

Cool. With that being said... what's the case for Stix? I don't think he's strong enough to play the 5 and I don't think he's mobile enough to the point where I trust him playing the 4. I just don't know what his path to success in the NBA is. His post defense should be passable at times, but I feel like I'd rather take a shot on a more proven archetype in Nick Richards. I have Jalen Smith in the 40 range on my BB.

He's not a perfect prospect, but he's the best available at that point, imo. I do think center is his best position - though matchups could make that vary against some teams. His stats improved quite a bit when he was switched to center (after the Mitchell brothers decided to transfer). Lower body strength will definitely be an issue, but in today's small-ball game - he should be fine, and he can out-quick bigger centers. His production at both ends and efficiency combined with his athleticism and 3 point range should get him picked long before the 40 range. He's got the mobility on D, though he hasn't been a high BBIQ defender and passer. If anyone remembers Joe Smith (also from MD), there are a lot of similarities - though Joe was a big more instinctive and didn't build up his upper body like Stix has.

So you think Stix has a chance at being a starter or just a bench big?

That's a fair question. It depends on how he and the NBA develop as far as the use of 5's and 4's. I think he can at least be a 3rd big.

[BlazersBroncos]

Maledon and Bey are a tier above the rest IMO. I am not as sold on Bolmaro yet.

[Catchall]

Also, mark my words: Achiuwa will be drafted before Saddiq, McDaniels, Reed, and Riller. Period.

I could see a team take Saddiq or Reed before Achiuwa. If McDaniels does well in interviews and workouts, he could go higher as well.

[Syd-TK3]

Theo should be gone by now so he's my pick

[Catchall]

How about replacing Jalen Cutcher with Jalen Smith on the next poll?

[getrichordie]

How about replacing Jalen Cutcher with Jalen Smith on the next poll?

Done. But can you tell me why Smith is a better prospect than Crutcher?

[DeBlazerRiddem]

How about replacing Jalen Cutcher with Jalen Smith on the next poll?

Done. But can you tell me why Smith is a better prospect than Crutcher?

I cant find any mock sites listing Crutcher at all, so I'm a bit interested to hear why you see him as a first round pick. From my perspective its really hard to be a guard in the NBA, in his 3rd year Crutcher should be a little more dominant if he has the ability to be a decent guard in the NBA. He is a good shooter, has a solid A/T ratio, looks like he could slot into a backup role if he develops well but I'm left doubting the upside.

Jalen Smith really he fits a desirable type of modern big, hitting 3's and blocking shots. Obviously he has some flaws but as a late first rounder he looks to have a more likely path to success than Crutcher. Probably wont end up great, has the upside to be pretty decent but probably wont, but checks all my boxes of someone that will stick in the league, health permitting.

[getrichordie]

How about replacing Jalen Cutcher with Jalen Smith on the next poll?

Done. But can you tell me why Smith is a better prospect than Crutcher?

I cant find any mock sites listing Crutcher at all, so I'm a bit interested to hear why you see him as a first round pick. From my perspective its really hard to be a guard in the NBA, in his 3rd year Crutcher should be a little more dominant if he has the ability to be a decent guard in the NBA. He is a good shooter, has a solid A/T ratio, looks like he could slot into a backup role if he develops well but I'm left doubting the upside.

Jalen Smith really he fits a desirable type of modern big, hitting 3's and blocking shots. Obviously he has some flaws but as a late first rounder he looks to have a more likely path to success than Crutcher. Probably wont end up a great, has the upside to be pretty decent but probably wont be great, but checks all my boxes of someone that will stick in the league, health permitting.

Lol. I just got done posting about how everyone just uses mock sites to post "safe" takes because they can't form their own opinion. Not saying that is you, but it's just funny. Mock sites aren't the bible and obviously big boards/mock sites/etc. are wildly wrong each year. Wouldn't put much stock into that.

My Crutcher sales pitch:

Spoiler:

Crutcher was clearly over-shadowed by Toppin this year which is why I suspect his usage was so low. And he did dominate his role. He shot better from 3 than Sam Merrill AND had a higher 3Pr. He has DEEP range and is versatile as he can hit pull-ups, step-backs, OTD, C&S, coming off screens, etc.

He has the ability to finish above the rim and is solid there where he can finish w/ left or right hand and he has a really nice floater package as well. He has one of the quickest first steps in the class and a good handle package. He understands how to use his speed, along with hesitations and hang dribbles to manipulate the defense and get to the rim/penetrate the D, etc.

His passing game is pretty ridiculous as well. He can WHIP live-dribble off-hand passes to the open man coming off P&R action. He has great timing and great overall instincts here as well. His AST/TO ratio is a 2.4 to go along with a >25% assist ratio.

Defensively, he's not great in this area, but he's not a complete turnstile either. He understands team defense. His on-ball defense needs work but mostly will improve with added strength as he will be able to contain dribble penetration better with bumps.

Physically, he's listed at 6'1, but I suspect that is outdated and he's closer to 6'2. Maybe he just plays bigger, but going off eye test, I'd say he probably measures at 6'1.5 at least. He has long arms. I'd guess he has a 6'5-6'6 w/s. His frame is decent enough at 175 lbs. I think he probably gets stronger and can get to around 190-195 w/o losing any agility.

Here's his career #s:

https://i.imgur.com/QlSI000.png

Basically, in a league valuing athletic, floor-spacing points more and more each year, I'd argue Crutcher's entire package is a helluva lot more attractive than Smith's, who, while relatively mobile, doesn't have the skills to guard beyond the paint at NBA level and doesn't have lower body strength to battle bigs in interior.

[big-shot-ROB]

Am I missing something with Achiuwa?

Haven't really watched any tape but with the numerous claims about him basically being all athelticism - few skill type of player, I just don't understand how he is being mocked to be an effective small 5 given he is what? 6'9ish?

[Catchall]

Am I missing something with Achiuwa?

Haven't really watched any tape but with the numerous claims about him basically being all athelticism - few skill type of player, I just don't understand how he is being mocked to be an effective small 5 given he is what? 6'9ish?

His timing and instincts on defense are great, but his ball skills (dribble, pass, shoot) are limited. He was very productive as a freshman. If he develops his skill set, he could be a bit special. If not, he's more like Jordan Hill, imo.

[Ruzious]

Done. But can you tell me why Smith is a better prospect than Crutcher?

I cant find any mock sites listing Crutcher at all, so I'm a bit interested to hear why you see him as a first round pick. From my perspective its really hard to be a guard in the NBA, in his 3rd year Crutcher should be a little more dominant if he has the ability to be a decent guard in the NBA. He is a good shooter, has a solid A/T ratio, looks like he could slot into a backup role if he develops well but I'm left doubting the upside.

Jalen Smith really he fits a desirable type of modern big, hitting 3's and blocking shots. Obviously he has some flaws but as a late first rounder he looks to have a more likely path to success than Crutcher. Probably wont end up a great, has the upside to be pretty decent but probably wont be great, but checks all my boxes of someone that will stick in the league, health permitting.

Lol. I just got done posting about how everyone just uses mock sites to post "safe" takes because they can't form their own opinion. Not saying that is you, but it's just funny. Mock sites aren't the bible and obviously big boards/mock sites/etc. are wildly wrong each year. Wouldn't put much stock into that.

My Crutcher sales pitch:

Spoiler:

Crutcher was clearly over-shadowed by Toppin this year which is why I suspect his usage was so low. And he did dominate his role. He shot better from 3 than Sam Merrill AND had a higher 3Pr. He has DEEP range and is versatile as he can hit pull-ups, step-backs, OTD, C&S, coming off screens, etc.

He has the ability to finish above the rim and is solid there where he can finish w/ left or right hand and he has a really nice floater package as well. He has one of the quickest first steps in the class and a good handle package. He understands how to use his speed, along with hesitations and hang dribbles to manipulate the defense and get to the rim/penetrate the D, etc.

His passing game is pretty ridiculous as well. He can WHIP live-dribble off-hand passes to the open man coming off P&R action. He has great timing and great overall instincts here as well. His AST/TO ratio is a 2.4 to go along with a >25% assist ratio.

Defensively, he's not great in this area, but he's not a complete turnstile either. He understands team defense. His on-ball defense needs work but mostly will improve with added strength as he will be able to contain dribble penetration better with bumps.

Physically, he's listed at 6'1, but I suspect that is outdated and he's closer to 6'2. Maybe he just plays bigger, but going off eye test, I'd say he probably measures at 6'1.5 at least. He has long arms. I'd guess he has a 6'5-6'6 w/s. His frame is decent enough at 175 lbs. I think he probably gets stronger and can get to around 190-195 w/o losing any agility.

Here's his career #s:

https://i.imgur.com/QlSI000.png

Basically, in a league valuing athletic, floor-spacing points more and more each year, I'd argue Crutcher's entire package is a helluva lot more attractive than Smith's, who, while relatively mobile, doesn't have the skills to guard beyond the paint at NBA level and doesn't have lower body strength to battle bigs in interior.

Crutcher's a good find. Really good shooter. I think the lack of strength keeps him from the 1st round, because he doesn't make up for it with athleticism. Defense is going to be a big problem for him, imo. While he's a little taller, he reminds me of Trey Burke.

[Stillwater]

board continues to favor questionable prospects leaving dominant options like Stewart on the board smh
imo Stewart and Achiuwa are clearly better NBA prospects than anyone else on this list and not even close given they are
one and dones. Bey is better too but older.
Ramsey is a project but that shooting is well worth a higher ranking than 23.
Dont know much about the likes of Maledon or Bolmaro this could be their range, but I am not buying they are even 1st round locks compared to the votes here.

[getrichordie]

I cant find any mock sites listing Crutcher at all, so I'm a bit interested to hear why you see him as a first round pick. From my perspective its really hard to be a guard in the NBA, in his 3rd year Crutcher should be a little more dominant if he has the ability to be a decent guard in the NBA. He is a good shooter, has a solid A/T ratio, looks like he could slot into a backup role if he develops well but I'm left doubting the upside.

Jalen Smith really he fits a desirable type of modern big, hitting 3's and blocking shots. Obviously he has some flaws but as a late first rounder he looks to have a more likely path to success than Crutcher. Probably wont end up a great, has the upside to be pretty decent but probably wont be great, but checks all my boxes of someone that will stick in the league, health permitting.

Lol. I just got done posting about how everyone just uses mock sites to post "safe" takes because they can't form their own opinion. Not saying that is you, but it's just funny. Mock sites aren't the bible and obviously big boards/mock sites/etc. are wildly wrong each year. Wouldn't put much stock into that.

My Crutcher sales pitch:

Spoiler:

Crutcher was clearly over-shadowed by Toppin this year which is why I suspect his usage was so low. And he did dominate his role. He shot better from 3 than Sam Merrill AND had a higher 3Pr. He has DEEP range and is versatile as he can hit pull-ups, step-backs, OTD, C&S, coming off screens, etc.

He has the ability to finish above the rim and is solid there where he can finish w/ left or right hand and he has a really nice floater package as well. He has one of the quickest first steps in the class and a good handle package. He understands how to use his speed, along with hesitations and hang dribbles to manipulate the defense and get to the rim/penetrate the D, etc.

His passing game is pretty ridiculous as well. He can WHIP live-dribble off-hand passes to the open man coming off P&R action. He has great timing and great overall instincts here as well. His AST/TO ratio is a 2.4 to go along with a >25% assist ratio.

Defensively, he's not great in this area, but he's not a complete turnstile either. He understands team defense. His on-ball defense needs work but mostly will improve with added strength as he will be able to contain dribble penetration better with bumps.

Physically, he's listed at 6'1, but I suspect that is outdated and he's closer to 6'2. Maybe he just plays bigger, but going off eye test, I'd say he probably measures at 6'1.5 at least. He has long arms. I'd guess he has a 6'5-6'6 w/s. His frame is decent enough at 175 lbs. I think he probably gets stronger and can get to around 190-195 w/o losing any agility.

Here's his career #s:

https://i.imgur.com/QlSI000.png

Basically, in a league valuing athletic, floor-spacing points more and more each year, I'd argue Crutcher's entire package is a helluva lot more attractive than Smith's, who, while relatively mobile, doesn't have the skills to guard beyond the paint at NBA level and doesn't have lower body strength to battle bigs in interior.

Crutcher's a good find. Really good shooter. I think the lack of strength keeps him from the 1st round, because he doesn't make up for it with athleticism. Defense is going to be a big problem for him, imo. While he's a little taller, he reminds me of Trey Burke.

Wait. Why is strength a concern? He’s basically Lillard-lite. He doesn’t really need strength to have offensive impact. It’s just going to help him on defensive end. He’s young for a junior, too.

He will be a hair over 21 by the time the draft happens.

[Ruzious]

Lol. I just got done posting about how everyone just uses mock sites to post "safe" takes because they can't form their own opinion. Not saying that is you, but it's just funny. Mock sites aren't the bible and obviously big boards/mock sites/etc. are wildly wrong each year. Wouldn't put much stock into that.

My Crutcher sales pitch:

Spoiler:

Crutcher was clearly over-shadowed by Toppin this year which is why I suspect his usage was so low. And he did dominate his role. He shot better from 3 than Sam Merrill AND had a higher 3Pr. He has DEEP range and is versatile as he can hit pull-ups, step-backs, OTD, C&S, coming off screens, etc.

He has the ability to finish above the rim and is solid there where he can finish w/ left or right hand and he has a really nice floater package as well. He has one of the quickest first steps in the class and a good handle package. He understands how to use his speed, along with hesitations and hang dribbles to manipulate the defense and get to the rim/penetrate the D, etc.

His passing game is pretty ridiculous as well. He can WHIP live-dribble off-hand passes to the open man coming off P&R action. He has great timing and great overall instincts here as well. His AST/TO ratio is a 2.4 to go along with a >25% assist ratio.

Defensively, he's not great in this area, but he's not a complete turnstile either. He understands team defense. His on-ball defense needs work but mostly will improve with added strength as he will be able to contain dribble penetration better with bumps.

Physically, he's listed at 6'1, but I suspect that is outdated and he's closer to 6'2. Maybe he just plays bigger, but going off eye test, I'd say he probably measures at 6'1.5 at least. He has long arms. I'd guess he has a 6'5-6'6 w/s. His frame is decent enough at 175 lbs. I think he probably gets stronger and can get to around 190-195 w/o losing any agility.

Here's his career #s:

https://i.imgur.com/QlSI000.png

Basically, in a league valuing athletic, floor-spacing points more and more each year, I'd argue Crutcher's entire package is a helluva lot more attractive than Smith's, who, while relatively mobile, doesn't have the skills to guard beyond the paint at NBA level and doesn't have lower body strength to battle bigs in interior.

Crutcher's a good find. Really good shooter. I think the lack of strength keeps him from the 1st round, because he doesn't make up for it with athleticism. Defense is going to be a big problem for him, imo. While he's a little taller, he reminds me of Trey Burke.

Wait. Why is strength a concern? He’s basically Lillard-lite. He doesn’t really need strength to have offensive impact. It’s just going to help him on defensive end. He’s young for a junior, too.

He will be a hair over 21 by the time the draft happens.

He's not Lillard-anything. Notice he doesn't draw many foul shots - unlike Lillard. He's a LOT more like Burke. Burke had basically the same length that Crutcher has and was a bit heavier at the same age. With very few exceptions, small guards who don't make up for it with athleticism or explosion or another great quality usually don't make real good NBA players.

[getrichordie]

Crutcher's a good find. Really good shooter. I think the lack of strength keeps him from the 1st round, because he doesn't make up for it with athleticism. Defense is going to be a big problem for him, imo. While he's a little taller, he reminds me of Trey Burke.

Wait. Why is strength a concern? He’s basically Lillard-lite. He doesn’t really need strength to have offensive impact. It’s just going to help him on defensive end. He’s young for a junior, too.

He will be a hair over 21 by the time the draft happens.

C'mon, he's not Lillard-anything. He's a LOT more like Burke. Burke had basically the same length that Crutcher has and was a bit heavier at the same age. With very few exceptions, small guards who don't make up for it with athleticism or explosion or another great quality usually don't make real good NBA players.

I guess we will agree to disagree. I don't see the Burke comparison at all. They don't even really play the same. Burke is 6'0. Crutcher is much closer to Lillard in size and playing style. Lillard played a different role than Crutcher in college, and he was a little bit more craftier around the rim, but Crutcher has the athleticism and explosion Lillard never had in college. He can dunk it over you, as we've seen him do it in college multiple times. He is also the better finisher at the rim coming out than Lillard was.

As far as foul rate, goes, it is a stylistic difference. Lillard will try to finish at the rim whereas Crutcher will just shoot a floater, which he's very effective at, and he takes what the defense gives him. You can coach him to attack the basket more instead of settling for floaters. Not a huge issue once he gains strength.

[Sir-Swish-A-Lot]

board continues to favor questionable prospects leaving dominant options like Stewart on the board smh
imo Stewart and Achiuwa are clearly better NBA prospects than anyone else on this list and not even close given they are
one and dones. Bey is better too but older.
Ramsey is a project but that shooting is well worth a higher ranking than 23.
Dont know much about the likes of Maledon or Bolmaro this could be their range, but I am not buying they are even 1st round locks compared to the votes here.

That's because a lot of people up in here like to try and act like they have some magical insight on foreign prospects that makes them feel superior in someway. Some people will seemingly promote a foreign ball boy over an American draft prospect. Deni Avdija is highly overrated and is definitely not better than say Jaden McDaniels.

Maledon & Bolmaro are the current flavor of the month for many posters up in here but neither one impresses me that much in order to rank them above some of the still available American draft prospects in this poll. There are no Luka Doncic's in this draft.

In the real NBA draft both Stewart and Achiuwa will most likely be drafted somewhere inside of the top 20 selections.

Also, CJ Elleby is a better all around player than Tyler Bey who is a very solid prospect but Elleby get very little respect from many posters up in here.

[getrichordie]

Alright, shutting this bad boy down. Maledon finally gets on the board.