Who you got: Prospects Duel

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realEAST
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Who you got: Prospects Duel 

Post#1 » by realEAST » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:10 pm

I tried pairing prospects in similar draft range playing more or less same position or similar role - just to be clear, there are some that are opposites, and that was the point in that case; and there are some cases where three players are matched up as they are all quite similar; and also, few cases where single player appears in multiple match-ups - and I'd like you to write down who do you think would be a better pick and why? Classic compare and contrast.

You can write it for every match-up, or just for those you like more or have more interest in. But please, provide at least a brief reasoning behind the decision.

Here it goes:

A. Edwards vs. L.Ball
J. Wiseman vs. O. Okongwu
D. Avdija vs. O. Toppin
I. Hayes vs. T. Haliburton
C. Anthony vs. K. Lewis
T. Maxey vs. RJ Hampton
I. Okoro vs. D. Vassell
A. Nesmith vs. S. Bey
J. McDaniels vs. A. Pokusevski

J. Green vs. J. McDaniels
J. Green vs. J. Ramsey
I. Quickley vs. J. Ramsey

P. Achiuwa vs. P. Reed
P. Achiuwa vs. A. Pokusevski
P. Achiuwa vs. T.Bey
P. Achiuwa vs. P. Williams

T. Bey vs. M. Diakite
T. Bey vs. P. Williams

P. Williams vs. R. Woodard II
I. Stewart vs. J. Smith
X. Tillman vs. D. Oturu

T. Maledon vs. N. Mannion vs. T. Terry
P. Pritchard vs. M. Flynn vs. C. Winston
G. Riller vs. J. Butler vs. J. Harris (Nevada)

J. Ayayi vs. C. Alocen


Thanks for reading and participating.
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Re: Who you got: Prospects Duel 

Post#2 » by clyde21 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:57 pm

realEAST wrote:A. Edwards vs. L.Ball - better 3 level scoring potential
J. Wiseman vs. O. Okongwu - more ball skills and mobility, better defender
D. Avdija vs. O. Toppin - more reliable scorer
I. Hayes vs. T. Haliburton - clear, valuable role in the NBA
C. Anthony vs. K. Lewis - a bit more shot versatility, more portable
T. Maxey vs. RJ Hampton - RJ is my #1 prospect
I. Okoro vs. D. Vassell - a plus defender, plus athletic profile at most valuable position
A. Nesmith vs. S. Bey - just a better version of Saddiq
J. McDaniels vs. A. Pokusevski - Poku has a higher floor and possibly higher ceiling

J. Green vs. J. McDaniels - Green is just better at everything
J. Green vs. J. Ramsey - Green is just better at everything
I. Quickley vs. J. Ramsey - some off bench scoring potential here

P. Achiuwa vs. P. Reed - toss up for me pretty much
P. Achiuwa vs. A. Pokusevski - better BBIQ, better ball skills
P. Achiuwa vs. T.Bey - more stable, more projectable game
P. Achiuwa vs. P. Williams - more stable, more projectable game

T. Bey vs. M. Diakite - just a lot better
T. Bey vs. P. Williams - clearer path to get on the court

P. Williams vs. R. Woodard II - higher ceiling while having similar floors
I. Stewart vs. J. Smith - athletic profile is good and can hit some 3s to go along with some rim protec.
X. Tillman vs. D. Oturu - more toolsy, better D

T. Maledon vs. N. Mannion vs. T. Terry - has the clearest path to being a back up PG
P. Pritchard vs. M. Flynn vs. C. Winston - trust the game management, exp
G. Riller vs. J. Butler vs. J. Harris (Nevada) - lotto talent being undervalued

J. Ayayi vs. C. Alocen - neither are in this class
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Re: Who you got: Prospects Duel 

Post#3 » by getrichordie » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:52 pm

Lol at green being better at everything than Ramsey
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Re: Who you got: Prospects Duel 

Post#4 » by The-Power » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:57 am

Love it.

A. Edwards vs. L.Ball – both have flaws, but Ball is just a better basketball player and I like his upside better
J. Wiseman vs. O. Okongwu – I like Okongwu, but I believe Wiseman has an easier path to being a good starter plus has the potential to be more (I'm high on his defensive upside)
D. Avdija vs. O. Toppin – not really enthusiastic about either but I'm really low on Toppin (terrible defense) and Avdija has a good foundation to at least be solid and in demand
I. Hayes vs. T. Haliburton – close, because I love them both and have both at the top; but Hayes' higher upside makes me select him over Haliburton's great floor/easy fit anywhere
C. Anthony vs. K. Lewis – I'm higher on Cole than most, I believe his archetype is still really valuable (a potentially great pull-up Guard with good enough playmaking to play PG) and easier to plug than Lewis
T. Maxey vs. RJ Hampton – soured a bit on RJ over the year (don't trust his shot) but I've never been much of a fan of Maxey (neither high floor nor high ceiling to me), so it's still Hampton for me
I. Okoro vs. D. Vassell – close but probably still Okoro; Vassell is the safer bet but Okoro could be more valuable if he develops at least an inconsistent jumpshot (he's a skilled brute with presumably solid defense against the toughest assignments, i.e. big wings)
A. Nesmith vs. S. Bey – again I could see an argument for either but I have Nesmith ahead because of his shooting ability; Bey is fine and a safer bet but Nesmith shooting upside is a difference-maker for me
J. McDaniels vs. A. Pokusevski – can't vote because I haven't seen enough of Pokusevski; leaning Poku for the time being

J. Green vs. J. McDaniels – I like McDaniels as an upside pick and he has defensive potential, but I trust Green more to pan out and become a player teams covet
J. Green vs. J. Ramsey – Green because I expect him to be a really good role player teams will like; not much of a Ramsey fan to be honest but maybe I'm missing something
I. Quickley vs. J. Ramsey – don't care much for either but probably take my chances with Ramsey if I had to choose one

P. Achiuwa vs. P. Reed – big Reed fan, I really like his defensive upside and rebounding, and trust his offense just enough to believe he'll pan out as a fine player; Achiuwa is riskier and the potential upside isn't closing that gap for me
P. Achiuwa vs. A. Pokusevski – again not voting, but probably Poku from what I've seen
P. Achiuwa vs. T.Bey – not much of a T. Bey fan; maybe I underrate him but I trust Achiuwa's defensive archetype more to overcome (in terms of impact and team-building) the offensive deficiencies they have
P. Achiuwa vs. P. Williams – firmly Williams for me, I think his offensive upside is much higher; clearly bigger difference than on defense

T. Bey vs. M. Diakite – don't really have an opinion of Diakite, would have to look into him more but probably Bey
T. Bey vs. P. Williams – again easily Williams for me, same reasoning as before

P. Williams vs. R. Woodard II – once again clearly Williams
I. Stewart vs. J. Smith – good duel, but I like Smith's archetype better; Stewart could go either way in the NBA and the best case scenario isn't that great; Smith I feel will have an easier time finding a consistent role
X. Tillman vs. D. Oturu – not sure here; would have said Oturu easily not too long ago but I've been coming around on Tillman more recently (he's a bit safer, I feel) and doubting Oturu more

T. Maledon vs. N. Mannion vs. T. Terry – not super high on anyone here; probably Mannion last, Maledon and Terry relatively close towards the end of the 1st round (Mannion in the 2nd)
P. Pritchard vs. M. Flynn vs. C. Winston – not sure about Flynn, the other two are meh and I wouldn't really want either one with a pick although both Pritchard and Winston may find their niche as back-up PGs and be decent at that
G. Riller vs. J. Butler vs. J. Harris (Nevada) – not sure about Harris; I like Butler fine but probably take Riller here (although I need to see more full games of him, my opinion on him can still shift quite a bit)

J. Ayayi vs. C. Alocen – I'd take Ayayi but I'll admit that I haven't seen much of Alocen as of late; let's see what they do next year
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Re: Who you got: Prospects Duel 

Post#5 » by Catchall » Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:47 am

realEAST wrote:
Spoiler:
Here it goes:

A. Edwards vs. L.Ball
J. Wiseman vs. O. Okongwu
D. Avdija vs. O. Toppin
I. Hayes vs. T. Haliburton
C. Anthony vs. K. Lewis
T. Maxey vs. RJ Hampton
I. Okoro vs. D. Vassell
A. Nesmith vs. S. Bey
J. McDaniels vs. A. Pokusevski

J. Green vs. J. McDaniels
J. Green vs. J. Ramsey
I. Quickley vs. J. Ramsey

P. Achiuwa vs. P. Reed
P. Achiuwa vs. A. Pokusevski
P. Achiuwa vs. T.Bey
P. Achiuwa vs. P. Williams

T. Bey vs. M. Diakite
T. Bey vs. P. Williams

P. Williams vs. R. Woodard II
I. Stewart vs. J. Smith
X. Tillman vs. D. Oturu

T. Maledon vs. N. Mannion vs. T. Terry
P. Pritchard vs. M. Flynn vs. C. Winston
G. Riller vs. J. Butler vs. J. Harris (Nevada)

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Re: Who you got: Prospects Duel 

Post#6 » by getrichordie » Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:17 am

ball v. edwards

Edwards is the better athlete and has highest upside IMO. I trust his archetype more.

wiseman v. okongwu

Okongwu is less raw and has good instincts + motor but Wiseman's [rumored] 9'6 standing reach, elite size + frame, and superior upside is too much to pass up.

avdija v. toppin

Toppin is athletic but his shooting is overrated and defense is horrendous and puts a relatively low ceiling on a team and is best as a 6th man. Avdija has legitimate guard skills at 6'9, is the superior defender, and reportedly has an outstanding work ethic to go along with good athleticism and is also way more versatile and has higher upside.

hayes v. haliburton

Hayes has superior athleticism, frame, and can do more things than Haliburton which makes him more versatile.

anthony v. lewis

This is close, but I'd rather take a swing on Lewis who projects to be a better playmaker and has elite speed and finishing ability and can also knock down 3s but needs to get stronger.

maxey v. hampton

This is really a coin toss. Both players can get into the teeth of the defense due to elite athleticism but struggle with shooting. I'm giving the edge to Hampton due to size and projected versatility plus I like his chances at finishing at the rim better than I do Maxey at the next level. Hampton also edges out Maxey in the passing + handle department.

okoro v. vassell

Okoro clearly has more upside due to elite strength and athleticism and projects to be a better defender in NBA, IMO. His shot is in question, but if he can be a 35% 3-pt shooter and defend best wing, his upside is crazy due to playmaking (best wing playmaker in draft).

nesmith v. s-bey

Bey doesn't do anything better than Nesmith other than just being bigger. Nesmith is just a far superior movement shooter and I'm willing to bet he can defend better than S-Bey and has legitimate 6th man potential. He's possibly the next version of Reddick.

mcdaniels v. pokusevski

This isn't even a contest. Pokusevski's upside as a 4 and possible small ball 5 at the next level is crazy high if he can put it all together. He's flashed an unguardable shot, good playmaking ability, as well as solid rim-protection but needs to get bigger just like McDaniels who has shown very little playmaking or rim-protection potential.

green v. mcdaniels

Green can legitimately give best opposing guards fits with his elite lateral quickness and his knack for hounding ball-handlers. He's solid off-ball as well. He's flashed solid 3-pt shooting potential as well but needs to work on finishing at rim and creating.

green v. ramsey

I think you could say this is a coin toss but I'm going to give edge to Ramsey as I think he has a chance to be way better than Green. He's raw on defensive side but has flashed good instincts and ability to create defensive events and has legitimate rim-protection potential. Not to mention, Ramsey can light you up from 3.

quickley v. ramsey

Not a contest. Not even close. See above.

achiuwa v. reed

Achiuwa has higher upside, IMO. I like his shot better than I do Reeds and I think once he figures out reading P&Rs, he's going to be a nightmare on defensive end.

achiuwa v. pokusevski

This is closer than you think, but Pokusevski wins out here due to being more skilled. Could easily see Achiuwa being better though.

achiuwa v. t-bey

I think the right fit will make Bey look better than Achiuwa, but Achiuwa is clearly the better prospect. If Bey ends up on Warriors somehow and plays a small ball 5 role, he's going to look really good. Achiuwa is way more raw and needs time to develop but if you hit on the 3-pt shooting, you are looking at a near all-star caliber player.

achiuwa v. williams

Williams is enticing because he is so young and has flashed the ability to do a little bit of everything, but Achiuwa is the better athlete and has higher chance of impacting the game due to superior defense and mobility, IMO.

t-bey v. diakite

Not even close. Not gonna waste time on this one.

t-bey v. williams

Williams has higher upside and has flashed more ability in terms of ball-skills than Bey has and could very well be a solid defender and combo-F and have better versatility.

williams v. woodard

Really wouldn't surprise me if Woodard turns out better than Williams, but Williams just has higher upside and potential to be a three-level scorer w/ playmaking ability whereas Woodard's ceiling is Ariza.

stewart v. smith

Hate Smith as a prospect due to tweener potential and don't see him projecting well at all at next level. Stewart could be a nice back up energy big man w/ 6th man potential. He's a problem in the post and runs floor better than Smith.

tillman v. oturu

Slight edge to Oturu here. While Tillman is more polished and Oturu has aspects of his game he needs to clean up (turnovers), Oturu has the higher upside on both ends of the floor due to superior size and good mobility in space. The smaller Tillman has better offensive game but works best as a small ball 5 and could struggle against NBA bigs where I can see Oturu having potential as a starter.

maledon v. mannion v. terry

I'd rank them in the order listed. Maledon is better athlete and quicker and faster than you think. He didn't get to showcase that in EL. His passing and playmaking is on par with Mannion's and he's the better shooter than Mannion while being bigger and more athletic. Terry is just too small and doesn't have a ton of pull-up ability to draw the Young/Curry comparisons. Wouldn't be able to defend a lick either.

flynn v. winston v. pritchard

Same as above pretty much. Rank them in order listed. Flynn is superior athlete and has legit pull-up ability and projects to best defender out of the 3. He's a legitimate three-level scorer that can make every pass out of P&R and has 6th man abilities and could start in 2-PG lineups at next level. Winston isn't super athletic but he's smart and reliable and basically a lesser version of Flynn in every way. Pritchard doesn't meet the athletic threshold and won't get drafted, IMO. Good college player. Bad NBA player. I think he's Europe-bound.

riller v. butler v. harris

I'd rank them in this order. Riller is just superior to Butler at pretty much everything. Legitimate candidate to start in NBA as better players around him will help his game, not hurt it. Butler just doesn't project to be very impactful at next level but could develop into a nice career back up point with a slim chance at 6th man potential. Harris shouldn't be on anyone's radar -- he's really that bad.

ayayi v. alocen

Honestly haven't watched a ton of Alocen but from what little I've seen, I'd probably say Alocen looks like the better prospect.
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Re: Who you got: Prospects Duel 

Post#7 » by Fischella » Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:01 am

realEAST wrote:
A. Edwards vs. L.Ball; not close, LaMelo has similarly good tools while being way better at bball
J. Wiseman vs. O. Okongwu; tough one but Wiseman's ceiling is higher, I don't love either at their ranges
D. Avdija vs. O. Toppin; toughest one for me, they are 2nd-3rd in my board
K. Hayes vs. T. Haliburton; Hali's floor is higher but again, ceiling play although I don't buy Hayes having a high high end outcome
C. Anthony vs. K. Lewis; easy one because of Cole's pull-up ability, strength and athleticism at the rim
T. Maxey vs. RJ Hampton; very easy
I. Okoro vs. D. Vassell; Vassell projects as a solid shooter, the play-making edge from Okoro may not translate at all
A. Nesmith vs. S. Bey; Bey is 6'8
J. McDaniels vs. A. Pokusevski; this one is a joke, easiest one on the board

J. Green vs. J. McDaniels; easy stuff
J. Green vs. J. Ramsey; easy stuff
I. Quickley vs. J. Ramsey; that one is hard, I have them close-ish, going with Quickley by a hair

P. Achiuwa vs. P. Reed, just toolsier, better frame
P. Achiuwa vs. A. Pokusevski; easy stuff
P. Achiuwa vs. T.Bey; easy stuff
P. Achiuwa vs. P. Williams; Williams is better at basketball, way younger

T. Bey vs. M. Diakite; not by much
T. Bey vs. P. Williams; easy stuff

P. Williams vs. R. Woodard II; easy stuff
I. Stewart vs. J. Smith; not by much but Smith shooting is easy to buy and at 6'11 with length, that's enough
X. Tillman vs. D. Oturu; laughable one, Oturu is terrible

T. Maledon vs. N. Mannion vs. T. Terry; this one was close-ish, I think Maledon's ceiling is way higher
P. Pritchard vs. M. Flynn vs. C. Winston; Winston's shooting ability is ridiculous and he is the best passer too
G. Riller vs. J. Butler vs. J. Harris (Nevada); easy stuff

J. Ayayi vs. C. Alocen; Alocén by a good margin, neither are in this class
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Re: Who you got: Prospects Duel 

Post#8 » by RiotPunch » Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:16 am

A. Edwards vs. L.Ball
I have struggled with this, but at the end of the day I think Melo is the right call. Preternatural feel for the game. He is largely uneducated when it comes to professional level X's and O's, especially defensively, but exhibits flashes of what he could be with a good coach/system. His passing instincts are otherworldly.

J. Wiseman vs. O. Okongwu
Okongwu all day. Wiseman has the edge with measurables, but that is all. Onyeka has lightyears better overall feel and has shown more promise facing up than Wiseman has. I am rooting for James, he seems like a great kid, but my God he needs some structure and guidance. Way too consistently lost out there, whereas Okongwu is just a better basketball player across the board.

D. Avdija vs. O. Toppin
Lower than consensus on both, but I'll take Deni. At least with him you have a two-way player that can hopefully hit that swing skill (pullup shooting) to maximize his potential. Toppin's body type is damning defensively, IMO. You are getting a one-way player who is also pretty old.

K. Hayes vs. T. Haliburton
Hands down Killian. Has shown way more as a self-creator and defender. I love Hali, but he is more of a connecting player rather than initiator, so really needs the right fit next to other initiators to flourish.

C. Anthony vs. K. Lewis
Neck and neck engine types, but I give the edge to Cole. Stronger with the better pull-up game, but Kira's speed and passing make this close.

T. Maxey vs. RJ Hampton
Maxey for me. He is an underrated athlete, displaying exceptional strength and balance as a finisher/POA defender with some self-creation and playmaking sprinkled in. Far better shooter than his college numbers indicate, IMO. I get the Hampton appeal though, he is super fast and athletic, has shown some self-creation and passing, but was lost often on defense.

I. Okoro vs. D. Vassell
Vassell. He is the best team defender in this class and has flashed some promising tough shot-making ability. Okoro is awesome as a defender and facilitator, but when you cannot capitalize on getting the Tony Allen treatment in the SEC, that does not bode well for shooting the ball at the next level.

A. Nesmith vs. S. Bey
Lower on both but Nesmith pretty easily here. Saddiq is just too heavy-footed to play effectively on the perimeter. Aaron is an elite high-volume movement shooter that will be a passable off-ball defender.

J. McDaniels vs. A. Pokusevski
Poku. A 7-footer than can run, shoot, pass like he can is just a rarer commodity. They are similar in that they are both (should be) projects.


J. Green vs. J. McDaniels
Green because at least you have a tenacious and effective defender.

J. Green vs. J. Ramsey
Gotta go Green. Jah is so much worse as a defender than his stock numbers indicate. Effort, aloofness, being out-of-position. Ramsey is the far superior shooter right now, but I buy Green as the more positive impact player right now.

I. Quickley vs. J. Ramsey
Ramsey. Quickley can't do anything but shoot, which is basically the case with Jah, but Jah is bigger and more athletic. I have more hope for him to develop other aspects of his game.


P. Achiuwa vs. P. Reed
Reed, though it is close. He is the superior rim-protector, I buy the shot more (despite the funky mechanics) and just think he is a smarter player. Precious is a bench energy big to me, which just isn't that valuable.

P. Achiuwa vs. A. Pokusevski
Poku with a chasm between him and Precious.

P. Achiuwa vs. T. Bey
Bey. More versatile defender and I buy his shot more than I do Achiuwa's. Way higher IQ defensively as well, Precious is just not the smartest, which makes me very worried for him.

P. Achiuwa vs. P. Williams
Pat by the largest margin in this section. Way higher ceiling on offense and wayyyy smarter on defense.


T. Bey vs. M. Diakite
Bey. Again, just super switchable on D and I buy the shot. I do love Diakite though.

T. Bey vs. P. Williams
PatWill comfortably.


P. Williams vs. R. Woodard II
PatWill, not close.

I. Stewart vs. J. Smith
Jalen. He has improved his strength. You immediately get a rebounder/shot-blocker that can stretch the floor, and that has value. Stewart is barely draftable in his archetype.

X. Tillman vs. D. Oturu
Tillman runs circles around Oturu. One is in my Top-30, one is not in my Top-75.


T. Maledon vs. N. Mannion vs. T. Terry
Maledon > Terry > Mannion. My concerns with Theo are well-documented, but I'm betting on his size/shooting/passing being enough for him to succeed. There is a world where he is 3rd on this list, but he is blessed with the best frame.

P. Pritchard vs. M. Flynn vs. C. Winston
FLYNN>>>>>>>Winston>Pritchard. Malachi is just so much better than both. Pick and roll monster with great strength for his size, great shooter, and I even buy him as a positive defender in the NBA, despite his size. Flynn is a 1st round talent in this class.

G. Riller vs. J. Butler vs. J. Harris (Nevada)
This is a disrespectful grouping for Riller, who has lottery talent. Butler is way better than Harris, who is barely draftable.


J. Ayayi vs. C. Alocen
Alocen by a country mile here for me, but I do not believe he will declare this year. Would bet on him being a Top-20 pick next year.
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Re: Who you got: Prospects Duel 

Post#9 » by jezzerinho » Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:04 am

Riot Punch: you saved me the exercise as -from what I've watched so far - I'd agree with pretty much every one of your choices.
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Re: Who you got: Prospects Duel 

Post#10 » by Saints14 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:08 pm

What do folks here think about Devin Vassell vs Aaron Nesmith? Similar stats and measurables though Vassell slightly better as a playmaker (A/TO) and Nesmith as a pure shooter with higher scoring volume, but Vassell seems to be regarded a tick higher from what I've seen. Is it the team defense that puts Vassell comfortably ahead?
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Re: Who you got: Prospects Duel 

Post#11 » by jezzerinho » Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:45 pm

Vassells elite feet put him ahead of Nesmith for me.
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Re: Who you got: Prospects Duel 

Post#12 » by getrichordie » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:02 pm

jezzerinho wrote:Vassells elite feet put him ahead of Nesmith for me.


Vassell is also waaay better on the defensive side and IMO the superior athlete and has the better frame. He's going to be 6'7/205-210 in no time and he's going to be able to switch.
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Re: Who you got: Prospects Duel 

Post#13 » by SNPA » Wed Jul 1, 2020 5:21 am

J. Wiseman vs. O. Okocngwu
D. Avdija vs. O. Toppin
I. Hayes vs. T. Haliburton
I. Okoro vs. D. Vassell drawish but lean Okoro
J. McDaniels vs. A. Pokusevski Battle of the potentials.
P. Achiuwa vs. P. Reed, big Reed fan
P. Achiuwa vs. A. Pokusevski

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Re: Who you got: Prospects Duel 

Post#14 » by Stillwater » Wed Jul 1, 2020 8:02 pm

jezzerinho wrote:Vassells elite feet put him ahead of Nesmith for me.

meh neither have an elite handle or exceptional drive and finish ability. both are top notch 3/d prospects that lack
high ceilings.
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