consensus big board -- who is #29?

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who is #29?

Poll ended at Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:26 pm

isaiah joe
2
5%
isaiah stewart
9
21%
jay scrubb
2
5%
robert woodard ii
2
5%
malachi flynn
1
2%
mason jones
1
2%
tre jones
8
19%
xavier tillman sr.
3
7%
vernon carey jr.
6
14%
*OTHER (write-in)
8
19%
 
Total votes: 42

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Re: consensus big board -- who is #29? 

Post#21 » by getrichordie » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:12 am

Kind of shocked that Stewart is going to take this down. I was pretty high on him early on, but I've since soured on him. I just think he's not a super explosive leaper which hurts him a lot.

I think he's a high-energy rebounder, put-back guy that you can probably throw on smaller bigs. He's going to earn 2nd possessions for his team and run the floor hard and by all accounts, he's got the intangibles.

Just don't see his game translating super well.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #29? 

Post#22 » by Roddy B for 3 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:37 am

getrichordie wrote:Kind of shocked that Stewart is going to take this down. I was pretty high on him early on, but I've since soured on him. I just think he's not a super explosive leaper which hurts him a lot.

I think he's a high-energy rebounder, put-back guy that you can probably throw on smaller bigs. He's going to earn 2nd possessions for his team and run the floor hard and by all accounts, he's got the intangibles.

Just don't see his game translating super well.


Five years from now when you redraft this draft class, don't you want to compare it to your big board and see most of the names in the same spots on both boards?

Most players who aren't top 35(ish) in redrafts are basically equivalent to providing 0 to an NBA team.

If you think Stewart will provide more than 0 over the course of his NBA career, idk how you can reasonably not have him in your top 35. Same with Nwora fwiw.

You asked me earlier in this thread about my opinion on Nwora. Just like you I see a guy who can shoot lights out and isn't a great athlete. I don't think he's much worse of an athlete than a guy like Justin Jackson who played meaningful minutes on the best offense in the NBA this season. Nwora is a far better shooter and Jackson is better at most other things, but Nwora plays intelligent, makes basic passes when the catch and shoot isn't there, he's notuch athletic than Kyle Korver at this stage, who will likely play playoff minutes on a title favorite.

My thoughts on Stewart are that he's a guy who will be a force on the glass and he'll get you buckets against the right matchups. If he can be as good defensively as (or even less than) a guy like Montrez Harrell I don't see why he can't at least be a player who plays the role of Boban Marjonivic, eat 15 minutes a game get 25 DNPCD's and just be a guy who can get buckets.

Say Kristaps is resting for a game, and Kleber needs a few minutes off, Bobans giving up more defensively bthan he's getting offensivley and Luka needs a breather. If you but Stewart in there, he can at least get back defensively, and make his rotations (better than Boban) then offensivley who is making a play? A spot up shooter? Trey Burke? Delon Wright? Well you can run a play for whoever, but if the shot clock is winding down, throw it into Stewart and he might get you something.

Sort of like what Jahlil Okagor did for New Orleans this season.

If you saw Jahlil go #29 in a redraft, would that "shock" you?

You have a very holier than though attitude on this board the past few months. I did alot of research on last year's draft and I can only think of Jalen McDaniels and Terrance Davis who did anything in the NBA this year, that I didn't scout at all. Out of every impactful rookie from last year's draft (as low an impact as Jalen McDaniels) I missed on two.

You have seemingly 15 players on your big board I've never paid ANY attention too. I feel like your going to whiff on those guys, yet you're "shocked" to see a guy like a Stewart be mocked #29.

I bet you would've had Dejuan Blair in your 40's or 50's that year too. You probably wouldn't have understood the Jae Crowder love because theirs a division 2 PG who's averging 19&6 with 37% from three and YOU and only YOU see he is a phenomenal athlete.

I bet you feel an intensive need to reply to me because I'm being minorly critical of you and your image on the internet is very important to you. Even though your so rude as to say your "shocked" Isiah Stewart is mocked #29. Like really? You maybe don't agree with that, but look at where professionals have him ranked (higher than 29) and then tell me your shocked? C'mon you just want a reply. Like I said, I'm being minorly critical and I expect you will either tolake the aggression up a notch, or because I pointed out I expect that you will out of character(ly) be passive.

Your "shocked" to see Isiah Stewart mocked #29.

Last year I took a couple swings with less familiar names, Miye Oni and Bruno Fernando. I had Sekuo Domboya #9. I had Rui Hachimura #5. The lessons I learned is that it's a bit silly to think I prleraonally see something NO ONE ELSE DOES. Now, Miye might still turn into the 3&D player I thought, Bruno might have a long career similar to Brendan Hayward that I thought, Rui is actually doing what I thought (I think I was right on him, just had him 3 or 4 spots to high) and Sekou might turn into an impactful player who starts for a good, playoff team. But at this point I wish I was closer to the consensus and moved those guys up, only a 5-7 spots more than the consensus instead 10-15. I saw Thybulle and had him #17. But if I had just been softer on my Oni hot take or closer to the consensus with Kelson Johnson (who is a dominant Glegaue player for a very guard heavy Spurs orginazation) I would have been 100% right on Thybulle! He would've probably been my #2 SG and a lotto pick, instead he was my #4 SG and an outside the lotto pick.

Although I was more correct on him than the NBA draft reality was, I could've been spot on!

Another thing I want to tell you is nobody cares who your #55-#60 guy is. You shouldn't even care. Straight up NBA teams don't care. The #60 pick in the draft is usually a guy who is top 45 on the team who drafts the players big board. You think Utah traded back into #55 and #57 because they saw those players as their #55 and #57 players? No. They probably had them both as middle round or early seconds, saw value and made a trade. NBA teams are incredibly conservative and don't just make moves to make moves.

What I'm saying is, if you don't have a player in your top 40-45 on your big board, you basically don't think they have an NBA career in front of them and are at that point scouting for Euro league clubs rather than NBA clubs.

If someone had Ben Wallace #35 on their big board the year he was drafted, credit to them.
If someone had Ben Wallace #51 on their big board, no credit to them (unless of course they bring him in as an UDFA but the odds of bringing in a player as an UDFA who is a difference maker that you had #51 on your big board is very unlikely.). I'd wager Toronto had Terrance Davis as at least an early 2nd guy, same with 'Sota and Reid (who I had #30) same with Charlotte and McDaniels.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #29? 

Post#23 » by Roddy B for 3 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:41 am

That long post wouldn't be so annoying to look at if, getrichordie didn't disay such an arrogant attitude.

"I'm shocked Stewart is going #29 here". Bro go look at Tankathon, ESPN, The Ringer, etc. I bet #29 is considered a fine spot for Stewart and probably lost have him higher.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #29? 

Post#24 » by Fischella » Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:47 am

Stewart is very likely to be a top30 player when you re-draft this class, but that it's not the way you should approach this
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #29? 

Post#25 » by bravor » Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:16 am

Stillwater wrote:
bravor wrote:Even if the injury prone factor does not help, Killian Tillie should be a late 1st pick.

maybe in your mind his offensive chops warrant it, but I cannot imagine any team willing to gaurantee a deal to him when they could easily negotiate one with better waivers in their favor in the 2nd.
I am not sold he can even plan on getting drafted if he is not able to do physicals for anyone depending on C-19


We are not taking about Kevin Love 2.0 or even kaminsky defensively (or even offensively, as he is a very willing passer). He used to be soft when he started in the ncaa, but he improved in toughness every year and his basket iq is certainly higher than many other pfs who are generally listed because of their athleticism.

He was back in the rotation since a while when the ncaa stoped. And his impact on the zags is unquestionable. He should do fine in try out/work out, he is not gonna sprain his ankle every time.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #29? 

Post#26 » by getrichordie » Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:59 am

Roddy B for 3 wrote:...


Actually. Just wanted to ask you a question. I don't think getting into everything you said is worth it, so yeah, I'll just ask a question.

You okay, bro?
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #29? 

Post#27 » by aguiar95 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:32 pm

bravor wrote:We are not taking about Kevin Love 2.0 or even kaminsky defensively (or even offensively, as he is a very willing passer). He used to be soft when he started in the ncaa, but he improved in toughness every year and his basket iq is certainly higher than many other pfs who are generally listed because of their athleticism.

He was back in the rotation since a while when the ncaa stoped. And his impact on the zags is unquestionable. He should do fine in try out/work out, he is not gonna sprain his ankle every time.


I'm actually very high on him, and would love the Mavs to take him at #31, but his colection of injuries in Gonzaga made him fall to maybe a 35-45 range. Has potential to be a Kleber 2.0, with defense, great PnP and PnR partner. Without injuries I have no doubt he would be a mid-1st.

Voted Stewart and Tre to round out the 1st round, since they are the best available.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #29? 

Post#28 » by getrichordie » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:42 pm

aguiar95 wrote:
bravor wrote:We are not taking about Kevin Love 2.0 or even kaminsky defensively (or even offensively, as he is a very willing passer). He used to be soft when he started in the ncaa, but he improved in toughness every year and his basket iq is certainly higher than many other pfs who are generally listed because of their athleticism.

He was back in the rotation since a while when the ncaa stoped. And his impact on the zags is unquestionable. He should do fine in try out/work out, he is not gonna sprain his ankle every time.


I'm actually very high on him, and would love the Mavs to take him at #31, but his colection of injuries in Gonzaga made him fall to maybe a 35-45 range. Has potential to be a Kleber 2.0, with defense, great PnP and PnR partner. Without injuries I have no doubt he would be a mid-1st.

Voted Stewart and Tre to round out the 1st round, since they are the best available.


Tillie is good. No doubt. I question his defensive ability but don't think he's awful there.

It wasn't just Tillie's ankle that has issues. (BTW, He had stress fractures there which is concerning.) He had knee issues as well which suggest something could be wrong in the kinetic chain.

And he hasn't ever played more than 26 MPG on average.

I'm fine with mid-2nd as a guy who can come in and play 10-15 minutes a night and stretch the floor at the 4 or 5 depending on matchups.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #29? 

Post#29 » by babyjax13 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:12 pm

Roddy B for 3 wrote:
getrichordie wrote:Kind of shocked that Stewart is going to take this down. I was pretty high on him early on, but I've since soured on him. I just think he's not a super explosive leaper which hurts him a lot.

I think he's a high-energy rebounder, put-back guy that you can probably throw on smaller bigs. He's going to earn 2nd possessions for his team and run the floor hard and by all accounts, he's got the intangibles.

Just don't see his game translating super well.


Five years from now when you redraft this draft class, don't you want to compare it to your big board and see most of the names in the same spots on both boards?

Most players who aren't top 35(ish) in redrafts are basically equivalent to providing 0 to an NBA team.

If you think Stewart will provide more than 0 over the course of his NBA career, idk how you can reasonably not have him in your top 35. Same with Nwora fwiw.

You asked me earlier in this thread about my opinion on Nwora. Just like you I see a guy who can shoot lights out and isn't a great athlete. I don't think he's much worse of an athlete than a guy like Justin Jackson who played meaningful minutes on the best offense in the NBA this season. Nwora is a far better shooter and Jackson is better at most other things, but Nwora plays intelligent, makes basic passes when the catch and shoot isn't there, he's notuch athletic than Kyle Korver at this stage, who will likely play playoff minutes on a title favorite.

My thoughts on Stewart are that he's a guy who will be a force on the glass and he'll get you buckets against the right matchups. If he can be as good defensively as (or even less than) a guy like Montrez Harrell I don't see why he can't at least be a player who plays the role of Boban Marjonivic, eat 15 minutes a game get 25 DNPCD's and just be a guy who can get buckets.

Say Kristaps is resting for a game, and Kleber needs a few minutes off, Bobans giving up more defensively bthan he's getting offensivley and Luka needs a breather. If you but Stewart in there, he can at least get back defensively, and make his rotations (better than Boban) then offensivley who is making a play? A spot up shooter? Trey Burke? Delon Wright? Well you can run a play for whoever, but if the shot clock is winding down, throw it into Stewart and he might get you something.

Sort of like what Jahlil Okagor did for New Orleans this season.

If you saw Jahlil go #29 in a redraft, would that "shock" you?

You have a very holier than though attitude on this board the past few months. I did alot of research on last year's draft and I can only think of Jalen McDaniels and Terrance Davis who did anything in the NBA this year, that I didn't scout at all. Out of every impactful rookie from last year's draft (as low an impact as Jalen McDaniels) I missed on two.

You have seemingly 15 players on your big board I've never paid ANY attention too. I feel like your going to whiff on those guys, yet you're "shocked" to see a guy like a Stewart be mocked #29.

I bet you would've had Dejuan Blair in your 40's or 50's that year too. You probably wouldn't have understood the Jae Crowder love because theirs a division 2 PG who's averging 19&6 with 37% from three and YOU and only YOU see he is a phenomenal athlete.

I bet you feel an intensive need to reply to me because I'm being minorly critical of you and your image on the internet is very important to you. Even though your so rude as to say your "shocked" Isiah Stewart is mocked #29. Like really? You maybe don't agree with that, but look at where professionals have him ranked (higher than 29) and then tell me your shocked? C'mon you just want a reply. Like I said, I'm being minorly critical and I expect you will either tolake the aggression up a notch, or because I pointed out I expect that you will out of character(ly) be passive.

Your "shocked" to see Isiah Stewart mocked #29.

Last year I took a couple swings with less familiar names, Miye Oni and Bruno Fernando. I had Sekuo Domboya #9. I had Rui Hachimura #5. The lessons I learned is that it's a bit silly to think I prleraonally see something NO ONE ELSE DOES. Now, Miye might still turn into the 3&D player I thought, Bruno might have a long career similar to Brendan Hayward that I thought, Rui is actually doing what I thought (I think I was right on him, just had him 3 or 4 spots to high) and Sekou might turn into an impactful player who starts for a good, playoff team. But at this point I wish I was closer to the consensus and moved those guys up, only a 5-7 spots more than the consensus instead 10-15. I saw Thybulle and had him #17. But if I had just been softer on my Oni hot take or closer to the consensus with Kelson Johnson (who is a dominant Glegaue player for a very guard heavy Spurs orginazation) I would have been 100% right on Thybulle! He would've probably been my #2 SG and a lotto pick, instead he was my #4 SG and an outside the lotto pick.

Although I was more correct on him than the NBA draft reality was, I could've been spot on!

Another thing I want to tell you is nobody cares who your #55-#60 guy is. You shouldn't even care. Straight up NBA teams don't care. The #60 pick in the draft is usually a guy who is top 45 on the team who drafts the players big board. You think Utah traded back into #55 and #57 because they saw those players as their #55 and #57 players? No. They probably had them both as middle round or early seconds, saw value and made a trade. NBA teams are incredibly conservative and don't just make moves to make moves.

What I'm saying is, if you don't have a player in your top 40-45 on your big board, you basically don't think they have an NBA career in front of them and are at that point scouting for Euro league clubs rather than NBA clubs.

If someone had Ben Wallace #35 on their big board the year he was drafted, credit to them.
If someone had Ben Wallace #51 on their big board, no credit to them (unless of course they bring him in as an UDFA but the odds of bringing in a player as an UDFA who is a difference maker that you had #51 on your big board is very unlikely.). I'd wager Toronto had Terrance Davis as at least an early 2nd guy, same with 'Sota and Reid (who I had #30) same with Charlotte and McDaniels.


I think you make a good point in the first 1/3rd of the post. I still don't have Stewart that high either, though, b/c I just don't think he's a passable athlete at his position. I'd rather go for Zeke Nnaji who seems to lack vertical explosiveness but is actually pretty quick from end to end and laterally (not insanely fast, but I can see him working out). There are a bunch of okay but not exciting center prospects in this draft, and Stewart (to me) is the least exciting out of them.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #29? 

Post#30 » by Ruzious » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:07 pm

Roddy B for 3 wrote:That long post wouldn't be so annoying to look at if, getrichordie didn't disay such an arrogant attitude.

"I'm shocked Stewart is going #29 here". Bro go look at Tankathon, ESPN, The Ringer, etc. I bet #29 is considered a fine spot for Stewart and probably lost have him higher.

I gotta be honest; I couldn't get past the "holier than though" part. :wink: Let's put that in the past, be better, spell better, and move forward.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #29? 

Post#31 » by clyde21 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:11 pm

Stewy this late is an absolutely a steal
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #29? 

Post#32 » by Roddy B for 3 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:33 pm

getrichordie wrote:
Roddy B for 3 wrote:...


Actually. Just wanted to ask you a question. I don't think getting into everything you said is worth it, so yeah, I'll just ask a question.

You okay, bro?


Arrogance again. I called you out and that means their must be something wrong with me.

I was trying to do three things with that post, explain the way I believe the draft should be looked at, let you know that players you have ranked 45+ are basically players you don't see an NBA future for (so who cares if you have them 45 or 61) , and to let you know the only reason I'm openly telling you what your doing that's wrong and why what your doing is wrong is because if your arogant tone on this board.

You ask, "you ok, bro?" Like their has to be something wrong with me for doing that. I'm just fine, bro. I got off work and had an hour to kill, i was going to watch DBZ or light you up, I decided to light you up.

Once again, their were only two players who made an impact last year from the 2019 class that I didn't scout and you have about 8 of your top 50 I didn't scout. Bro I'll tell you right now, those 8 guys aren't going to all be players in the NBA.

You have guys ranked 35 in your board you believe "have a high floor". That's so silly, DeAndre Hunter had a high floor, Rui Hachimura had a high floor. To have a high floor as an NBA prospect means lock first round pick.

But I wrote a long article going at you and I did that because I was bored and had time to kill. Your arrogance immediately goes to thinking, "He must be having a hard time". As if to completely invalidate my points.

I'm saying you post with an arrogant attitude and I can't wait to see you miss over and over again. And if you stay on this board, believe me, when your arrogant in the 2023 draft I'll remind you how wrong you were on the 2020 draft.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #29? 

Post#33 » by Roddy B for 3 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:41 pm

Fischella wrote:Stewart is very likely to be a top30 player when you re-draft this class, but that it's not the way you should approach this


I disagree. I think getting role players on tiny salaries is a huge deal. I think drafting Jae Crowder at 35 is incredible and swinging for the fences and missing is the waste if a huge value.

The counter is, go for upside like Rudy Gobert, my counter to you is, if you thought Rudy Gobert was going to be anywhere as good as he has been he should've been way higher than 27 on your board.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #29? 

Post#34 » by getrichordie » Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:55 pm

Spoiler:
Roddy B for 3 wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
Roddy B for 3 wrote:...


Actually. Just wanted to ask you a question. I don't think getting into everything you said is worth it, so yeah, I'll just ask a question.

You okay, bro?


Arrogance again. I called you out and that means their must be something wrong with me.

I was trying to do three things with that post, explain the way I believe the draft should be looked at, let you know that players you have ranked 45+ are basically players you don't see an NBA future for (so who cares if you have them 45 or 61) , and to let you know the only reason I'm openly telling you what your doing that's wrong and why what your doing is wrong is because if your arogant tone on this board.

You ask, "you ok, bro?" Like their has to be something wrong with me for doing that. I'm just fine, bro. I got off work and had an hour to kill, i was going to watch DBZ or light you up, I decided to light you up.

Once again, their were only two players who made an impact last year from the 2019 class that I didn't scout and you have about 8 of your top 50 I didn't scout. Bro I'll tell you right now, those 8 guys aren't going to all be players in the NBA.

You have guys ranked 35 in your board you believe "have a high floor". That's so silly, DeAndre Hunter had a high floor, Rui Hachimura had a high floor. To have a high floor as an NBA prospect means lock first round pick.

But I wrote a long article going at you and I did that because I was bored and had time to kill. Your arrogance immediately goes to thinking, "He must be having a hard time". As if to completely invalidate my points.

I'm saying you post with an arrogant attitude and I can't wait to see you miss over and over again. And if you stay on this board, believe me, when your arrogant in the 2023 draft I'll remind you how wrong you were on the 2020 draft.


Everyone is going to be wrong on guys. This isn't a perfect science.

If you are going to call me arrogant, be specific. Provide examples. Don't generalize.

Honestly not sure who you are referencing as having a high floor at 35, but it seems you are making assumptions about how I think about prospects. That's weird. Can you please be more specific?
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #29? 

Post#35 » by Stillwater » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:31 pm

I can't for the life of me understand the low opinion on these boards for a kid who dominated college basketball has exceptional length ( that completely obliterates head height concerns) and is an above the rim player even if he isn't a freakish athlete nor does he need to be since he is dunking without barely leaving the ground but has to have at least a 30" standing vert from watching him play. I also would not be surprised if Stewarts floor stretching ability upside is going to become something many slept on. He has better form than Toppin and just turned 19 last month where Toppin turned 22 in March and is ranked at 11 on this board. smh
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #29? 

Post#36 » by clyde21 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:46 pm

Stewy is actually quite nuanced for his age too, does a really good job of positioning himself underneath the rim, is strong and really knows how to box out and is willing to do it, knows how to set a screen, already does a lot of the little things you want to see from a young big to earn him minutes on the floor

honestly, I just don't why Wiseman's a top 3 guy but Stewy is barely even in the top 30, what is the logic here honestly behind that discrepancy?
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #29? 

Post#37 » by Roddy B for 3 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:56 am

clyde21 wrote:Stewy is actually quite nuanced for his age too, does a really good job of positioning himself underneath the rim, is strong and really knows how to box out and is willing to do it, knows how to set a screen, already does a lot of the little things you want to see from a young big to earn him minutes on the floor

honestly, I just don't why Wiseman's a top 3 guy but Stewy is barely even in the top 30, what is the logic here honestly behind that discrepancy?


For me it starts and ends with physical tools,although I have Stewart higher than #30 (probably 18-25 range).

But if all athletisim, height/weight/wingspan/strength/speed/etc. was the same I'd pick Stewart easily over Wiseman.
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #29? 

Post#38 » by clyde21 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:51 am

Stewy has an elite wingspan and is plenty mobile, strong as an ox too, he has a + physical profile for sure so not really sure where these size/athletic question marks are coming from tbh
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #29? 

Post#39 » by Roddy B for 3 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:00 am

clyde21 wrote:Stewy has an elite wingspan and is plenty mobile, strong as an ox too, he has a + physical profile for sure so not really sure where these size/athletic question marks are coming from tbh


I assume your replying to me.

You asked a direct question. I gave my personal, direct answer to that, direct question.

I'll ask you. Do you have Wiseman higher than Stewart? If so, why?
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Re: consensus big board -- who is #29? 

Post#40 » by clyde21 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:13 pm

Roddy B for 3 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:Stewy has an elite wingspan and is plenty mobile, strong as an ox too, he has a + physical profile for sure so not really sure where these size/athletic question marks are coming from tbh


I assume your replying to me.

You asked a direct question. I gave my personal, direct answer to that, direct question.

I'll ask you. Do you have Wiseman higher than Stewart? If so, why?


Wiseman is #6
Stewy is #10

both tier 3

and that's my point, per this poll Wiseman is a top 3 prospect but Stewy barely even top 30

why?
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