[Better Prospect?] — Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell?

getrichordie · Post #1 » by **getrichordie** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:49 am

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isaac okoro — 19.3 years old
6'5" — 225 — 6'9"

devin vassell — 19.8 years old
6'6" — 194 — 6'10"

King Ken · Post #2 » by **King Ken** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:42 am

Okoro and it's not close for me. A 3&D SG is the most overrated 3&D and the only 3&D that's less valuable is the 3&D PG. The shorter and smaller you are, the less value the 3&D has.

Okoro has the first step, explosiveness, size, versatility, movement skills, passing vision, feel for the game, and intangibles over Vassell. Vassell is a rich man's Danny Green as a prospect. He can help you Day 1 but he's not going to be that good. 4th or 5th option at best. Okoro at least is going to be a very good two-way big wing if his shot comes around or not. He's in the mold of Jimmy Butler, Iggy, and guys like that. Vassell is too small. 195 at 6'6 is just too small unless you got this crazy athleticism for me. While he's not Culver, Culver to me was overrated last year as a prospect and I feel the same way about Vassell.

Catchall · Post #3 » by **Catchall** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:58 am

Okoro has star potential. There's some risk with him, as he needs to develop his shooting, but the explosive athleticism puts him in a higher tier than Vassell for me.

I like Okoro as a prospect more than I liked Jaylen Brown coming out of Cal.

Fischella · Post #4 » by **Fischella** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:59 am

Okoro has star potential if he hits like a 95%tile outcome, he is most likely a different flavour of Justise Winslow

Also Okoro is thick and strong but lol at big wing, he is 6'5 bf with a 6'8 wingspan, he has average SG size with a the skillset of a PF

Vassell probably has a lower absolute ceiling, but his most likely outcome is flat out better

King Ken · Post #5 » by **King Ken** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:35 pm

Fischella wrote:Okoro has star potential if he hits like a 95%tile outcome, he is most likely a different flavour of Justise Winslow

Also Okoro is thick and strong but lol at big wing, he is 6'5 bf with a 6'8 wingspan, he has average SG size with a the skillset of a PF

Vassell probably has a lower absolute ceiling, but his most likely outcome is flat out better

Winslow literally spent most of his career injured and he didn't have Okoro off ball abilities or his first step and explosiveness. Winslow was more of a point forward type. Okoro already fits what the NBA is looking for, for his style of play. He just needs more offensive polish. There is a solid chance, he will be the best overall wing in this draft class by 2024. His defense is already plus plus for a prospect and insane for a freshman entry.

I don't see any percentile outcome outside of day 1 where Vassell is more helpful. Once Okoro gets more offensive polish, he passes him up ASAP. 30 pounds is a massive difference in this league. It's all about versatility. Okoro offers that.

Fischella · Post #6 » by **Fischella** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:40 pm

Okoro is really really likely to be limited offensively, if you wanna buy in on unrealistic offensive improvements be my guest

King Ken · Post #7 » by **King Ken** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:37 pm

Fischella, explain what you mean?

getrichordie · Post #8 » by **getrichordie** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:11 pm

King Ken wrote:Fischella, explain what you mean?

I think he's saying that it is unrealistic to think Okoro becomes a good shooter...

King Ken · Post #9 » by **King Ken** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:24 pm

getrichordie wrote:
King Ken wrote:Fischella, explain what you mean?

I think he's saying that it is unrealistic to think Okoro becomes a good shooter...

I asked him and I disagree with your notion

eminence · Post #10 » by **eminence** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:35 pm

I'd take Vassell. Not huge upside, but lengthy guard who can hit a shot has a long history of success, will probably give him a later lotto/mid 1st grade.

Not high on Okoro at all. Not an elite athlete by NBA standards and is lacking in basically every skill department. Late 1st/early 2nd as a development guy. No realistic star upside.

getrichordie · Post #11 » by **getrichordie** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:53 pm

King Ken wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
King Ken wrote:Fischella, explain what you mean?

I think he's saying that it is unrealistic to think Okoro becomes a good shooter...

I asked him and I disagree with your notion

Not my notion. I think that's what he is saying.

Fischella · Post #12 » by **Fischella** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:56 pm

Oh I am, and even if he shoots okay it's gonna be corner 3s, low volume, low difficulty, he has less ball skills/creation ability than Winslow, he is more explosive/better on cuts, they both have vision and feel, Winslow more handling chops

I think he is a bit different but kinda similar impact wise, I am def not seeing a high end outcome for Okoro on offense as likely as you seem

I think he is a tier 3, teens level prospect, the earliest I'd consider him is probably at 10th for the Suns

nolang1 · Post #13 » by **nolang1** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:57 pm

King Ken wrote:Okoro and it's not close for me. A 3&D SG is the most overrated 3&D and the only 3&D that's less valuable is the 3&D PG. The shorter and smaller you are, the less value the 3&D has.

Okoro has the first step, explosiveness, size, versatility, movement skills, passing vision, feel for the game, and intangibles over Vassell. Vassell is a rich man's Danny Green as a prospect. He can help you Day 1 but he's not going to be that good. 4th or 5th option at best. Okoro at least is going to be a very good two-way big wing if his shot comes around or not. He's in the mold of Jimmy Butler, Iggy, and guys like that. Vassell is too small. 195 at 6'6 is just too small unless you got this crazy athleticism for me. While he's not Culver, Culver to me was overrated last year as a prospect and I feel the same way about Vassell.

Rich man's Danny Green should be a top 5 pick in this draft. Danny Green is actually top 5 in his draft class in VORP behind Harden, Curry, Griffin, and Holiday. Team defense and floor spacing are pretty important.

King Ken · Post #14 » by **King Ken** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:00 pm

nolang1 wrote:
King Ken wrote:Okoro and it's not close for me. A 3&D SG is the most overrated 3&D and the only 3&D that's less valuable is the 3&D PG. The shorter and smaller you are, the less value the 3&D has.

Okoro has the first step, explosiveness, size, versatility, movement skills, passing vision, feel for the game, and intangibles over Vassell. Vassell is a rich man's Danny Green as a prospect. He can help you Day 1 but he's not going to be that good. 4th or 5th option at best. Okoro at least is going to be a very good two-way big wing if his shot comes around or not. He's in the mold of Jimmy Butler, Iggy, and guys like that. Vassell is too small. 195 at 6'6 is just too small unless you got this crazy athleticism for me. While he's not Culver, Culver to me was overrated last year as a prospect and I feel the same way about Vassell.

Rich man's Danny Green should be a top 5 pick in this draft. Danny Green is actually top 5 in his draft class in VORP behind Harden, Curry, Griffin, and Holiday. Team defense and floor spacing are pretty important.

I don't care about VORP for role players. They usually have to play for good teams to have good VORPs. When they don't, their metrics aren't good. If I have to put you around LeBron James to be effective, I don't want you unless of course, I have LeBron James.

Fischella · Post #15 » by **Fischella** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:01 pm

Danny Green is a top10 pick in any draft, I don't care all that much for VORP, and value wise you still take DeRozan over him, if anything due to trade value in his draft class, and guys like Rubio,Ingles and Matthews are about the same level to me, but again, top10 regardless

Ghost of Kleine · Post #16 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:10 pm

How would you guys rank Vassell and Okoro against these other defensive 2s: Josh Green/ Tyrese Maxey, Jahmius Ramsey, Trevelin Queen? Are they at all comparable in terms of value defensively?

nolang1 · Post #17 » by **nolang1** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:11 pm

Fischella wrote:Danny Green is a top10 pick in any draft, I don't care all that much for VORP, and value wise you still take DeRozan over him, if anything due to trade value in his draft class, and guys like Rubio,Ingles and Matthews are about the same level to me, but again, top10 regardless

Thanks for just restating my point, which is that the only players you'd take over Danny Green are max contract All Stars. Obviously the 'rich man's Danny Green' would be even higher.

Fischella · Post #18 » by **Fischella** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:13 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:How would you guys rank Vassell and Okoro against these other defensive 2s: Josh Green/ Tyrese Maxey, Jahmius Ramsey, Trevelin Queen? Are they at all comparable in terms of value defensively?

Maxey is strictly a Guard defender, I don't think he qualifies, Queen is pretty erratic on D imo, Green is really good, prob comparable to them although he is less of a team defender and better tracking guys, Ramsey is terrible on team defense, 1on1 if he can lock on one guy he is alright

Ghost of Kleine · Post #19 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:20 pm

Fischella wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:How would you guys rank Vassell and Okoro against these other defensive 2s: Josh Green/ Tyrese Maxey, Jahmius Ramsey, Trevelin Queen? Are they at all comparable in terms of value defensively?

Maxey is strictly a Guard defender, I don't think he qualifies, Queen is pretty erratic on D imo, Green is really good, prob comparable to them although he is less of a team defender and better tracking guys, Ramsey is terrible on team defense, 1on1 if he can lock on one guy he is alright

Thanks man! :thumbsup:

King Ken · Post #20 » by **King Ken** » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:21 pm

Fischella wrote:Oh I am, and even if he shoots okay it's gonna be corner 3s, low volume, low difficulty, he has less ball skills/creation ability than Winslow, he is more explosive/better on cuts, they both have vision and feel, Winslow more handling chops

I think he is a bit different but kinda similar impact wise, I am def not seeing a high end outcome for Okoro on offense as likely as you seem

I think he is a tier 3, teens level prospect, the earliest I'd consider him is probably at 10th for the Suns

Okoro has an elite first step, exceptional body control, great finisher with great explosiveness, he just has much better tools than Winslow even if you can argue that they are similar prospects overall at the same stage. I would argue that Okoro has a legit excellent ceiling and that Winslow is a different type of prospect that is outside of the box. Okoro fits a role that's already there in the NBA. You don't have to think outside of the box. I don't see any issues with low volume shooting if you are that good at movement off the ball and you have the potential of an excellent straight-line dribble-drive game-like Okoro shows. Okoro's athleticism, BBIQ, intangibles, and movement skills should see him average 20+ppg in his prime. I think he's one of the most obvious potential bets in this class even if his floor isn't all that and he's more of an 8th-10th man at this stage. Whereas Vassell is a legit 7th man right now.

Potentially, Okoro will be a 2nd or 3rd option at his worst in his prime unless his squad in LOADED. Vassell, at best will be the 4th option and depending how good you are, 5th option, or a key bench piece. He might have high VORPs and other things if he lands in a great situation but he's not one of those guys I am going to go crazy over if I watch him live. What I like about him is his role polish. The most polished Florida State player I've seen for the NBA. Most of the FSU guys tend to be role wise raw for the NBA but they usually have a lot more potential on average.

I just don't see how Okoro isn't a future All-Star candidate. Just based on his ceiling, he's in the top 5 of this class for me for potential.

Who is the better prospect?