[Better Prospect?] — Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell?

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Who is the better prospect?

Isaac Okoro
33
32%
Devin Vassell
69
68%
 
Total votes: 102

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Re: [Better Prospect?] — Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell? 

Post#41 » by tester551 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:38 pm

Roddy B for 3 wrote:I think we all know what Vassell is. He's got a two dribble mid range shot, a very good outside shot. I don't think he projects as an elite defender but he clearly will be an NBA rotation player either a 4th or 5th starter or a top 9 rotation guy. He'll never be buried on a bench until he's 34.

Okoro projects as an elite defender. He looks like a football player or OG Annouoby or Lugentz Dort. Literally I wouldn't be surprised if he tops out as a top 10 defensive wing.
He has confidence issues with his only outstanding weakness (shooting). But he still had shooting splits of 51/29/67 (on a deeper than ever three point line). That's better or in the neighborhood of top prospects like Avdija, Edwards, Anthony, and Ball. If Okoro can can get his three point corner shot to a respectable 33% he'll be a big time positive in the NBA. After getting burned by Thybulle and Clarke last season for doubting their three point shoot improving, I won't make that mistake again.

Why don't you think of Vassell as an elite defender? Just because he doesn't look like a football player & lacks bulk?

Vassell's defensive IQ is extremely high. I think he is one of the safest picks in the draft to be a high-level rotation player.
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Re: [Better Prospect?] — Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell? 

Post#42 » by Roddy B for 3 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:03 pm

tester551 wrote:
Roddy B for 3 wrote:I think we all know what Vassell is. He's got a two dribble mid range shot, a very good outside shot. I don't think he projects as an elite defender but he clearly will be an NBA rotation player either a 4th or 5th starter or a top 9 rotation guy. He'll never be buried on a bench until he's 34.

Okoro projects as an elite defender. He looks like a football player or OG Annouoby or Lugentz Dort. Literally I wouldn't be surprised if he tops out as a top 10 defensive wing.
He has confidence issues with his only outstanding weakness (shooting). But he still had shooting splits of 51/29/67 (on a deeper than ever three point line). That's better or in the neighborhood of top prospects like Avdija, Edwards, Anthony, and Ball. If Okoro can can get his three point corner shot to a respectable 33% he'll be a big time positive in the NBA. After getting burned by Thybulle and Clarke last season for doubting their three point shoot improving, I won't make that mistake again.

Why don't you think of Vassell as an elite defender? Just because he doesn't look like a football player & lacks bulk?

Vassell's defensive IQ is extremely high. I think he is one of the safest picks in the draft to be a high-level rotation player.


It depends on the definition of elite. I see him closer to the #20 defensive wing than #5.

I think he'll be very good, but closer to a guy like Dorian Finny-Smith than a guy like Ben Simmons.

And imo, DFS is closer to the #20 wing defender than #5 wing defender.
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Re: [Better Prospect?] — Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell? 

Post#43 » by mattao313 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:08 pm

I dont get the hype with Okoro he is a Michael Kidd-Gilchrist/Rondae Hollis-Jefferson clone. Every year its a athletic guy that cant shoot who gets hyped and people say "but if he develops a shot he'll be a star". Vassell at least projects to be a good shooter while also having good defense he has a much higher floor of being a 3&D guy.
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Re: [Better Prospect?] — Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell? 

Post#44 » by doordoor123 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:36 am

mattao313 wrote:I dont get the hype with Okoro he is a Michael Kidd-Gilchrist/Rondae Hollis-Jefferson clone. Every year its a athletic guy that cant shoot who gets hyped and people say "but if he develops a shot he'll be a star". Vassell at least projects to be a good shooter while also having good defense he has a much higher floor of being a 3&D guy.


I think his shot is better than both of this guys. Like he doesn’t have a bad jumper, it just doesn’t go in. The problem is his usage rate is so low. We have no idea what kind of player he’ll be. Could easily bust though.
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Re: [Better Prospect?] — Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell? 

Post#45 » by Roddy B for 3 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:26 am

doordoor123 wrote:
mattao313 wrote:I dont get the hype with Okoro he is a Michael Kidd-Gilchrist/Rondae Hollis-Jefferson clone. Every year its a athletic guy that cant shoot who gets hyped and people say "but if he develops a shot he'll be a star". Vassell at least projects to be a good shooter while also having good defense he has a much higher floor of being a 3&D guy.


I think his shot is better than both of this guys. Like he doesn’t have a bad jumper, it just doesn’t go in. The problem is his usage rate is so low. We have no idea what kind of player he’ll be. Could easily bust though.


Okoro is also much more of a sure bet defensively than those two were,imo.

I see excellent feet, hips and hand when Okoro is on an island defensively.

I would compare Anthony Edwards more to RHJ and Stanley Johnson defensively. Highlights, but overall leaves you wanting much more consistency. Okoro is 100% ready to go on defense. MKG was to, but like Doordoor said, the shot was MUCH worse.

Okoro is also a much better ball handler and passer than any of those guys

He's a totally different tier of prospect imo. But I'm really high on him..

For me I'm only set in stone on my top 2 prospects right now, but the lowest I could possibly but Okoro on my big board is 6.
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Re: [Better Prospect?] — Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell? 

Post#46 » by Revenged25 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:24 pm

It really depends on if the team Okoro goes to can develop his shot or not. I think Vassell is the safer pick but Okoro has the potential to elite if he ever does develop the shot. Going somewhere like Cleveland who teams across the league have acknowledge their ability to develop players shooting would help him get there.
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Re: [Better Prospect?] — Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell? 

Post#47 » by doordoor123 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:30 pm

Roddy B for 3 wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:
mattao313 wrote:I dont get the hype with Okoro he is a Michael Kidd-Gilchrist/Rondae Hollis-Jefferson clone. Every year its a athletic guy that cant shoot who gets hyped and people say "but if he develops a shot he'll be a star". Vassell at least projects to be a good shooter while also having good defense he has a much higher floor of being a 3&D guy.


I think his shot is better than both of this guys. Like he doesn’t have a bad jumper, it just doesn’t go in. The problem is his usage rate is so low. We have no idea what kind of player he’ll be. Could easily bust though.


Okoro is also much more of a sure bet defensively than those two were,imo.

I see excellent feet, hips and hand when Okoro is on an island defensively.

I would compare Anthony Edwards more to RHJ and Stanley Johnson defensively. Highlights, but overall leaves you wanting much more consistency. Okoro is 100% ready to go on defense. MKG was to, but like Doordoor said, the shot was MUCH worse.

Okoro is also a much better ball handler and passer than any of those guys

He's a totally different tier of prospect imo. But I'm really high on him..

For me I'm only set in stone on my top 2 prospects right now, but the lowest I could possibly but Okoro on my big board is 6.


Hollis-Jefferson is a good defender. And coming out of the draft he looked like an elite defender. Okoro isnt a ball-handler and neither were the other two players. But they all handled the ball in transition and were solid passers in college. Okoro is probably the best finisher, but again low usage. Okoro has the best natural defensive ability for sure, but his offense still lacks a lot.
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Re: [Better Prospect?] — Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell? 

Post#48 » by mattao313 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:55 pm

doordoor123 wrote:
Roddy B for 3 wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:
I think his shot is better than both of this guys. Like he doesn’t have a bad jumper, it just doesn’t go in. The problem is his usage rate is so low. We have no idea what kind of player he’ll be. Could easily bust though.


Okoro is also much more of a sure bet defensively than those two were,imo.

I see excellent feet, hips and hand when Okoro is on an island defensively.

I would compare Anthony Edwards more to RHJ and Stanley Johnson defensively. Highlights, but overall leaves you wanting much more consistency. Okoro is 100% ready to go on defense. MKG was to, but like Doordoor said, the shot was MUCH worse.

Okoro is also a much better ball handler and passer than any of those guys

He's a totally different tier of prospect imo. But I'm really high on him..

For me I'm only set in stone on my top 2 prospects right now, but the lowest I could possibly but Okoro on my big board is 6.


Hollis-Jefferson is a good defender. And coming out of the draft he looked like an elite defender. Okoro isnt a ball-handler and neither were the other two players. But they all handled the ball in transition and were solid passers in college. Okoro is probably the best finisher, but again low usage. Okoro has the best natural defensive ability for sure, but his offense still lacks a lot.

I just dont see him becoming a scorer being able to break down a defense. He'd have to make huge strides in ball handling and shooting. His best case scenerio is like a Aaron Gordon But then again Gordon is bigger and more bouncy.
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Re: [Better Prospect?] — Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell? 

Post#49 » by doordoor123 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:56 pm

mattao313 wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:
Roddy B for 3 wrote:
Okoro is also much more of a sure bet defensively than those two were,imo.

I see excellent feet, hips and hand when Okoro is on an island defensively.

I would compare Anthony Edwards more to RHJ and Stanley Johnson defensively. Highlights, but overall leaves you wanting much more consistency. Okoro is 100% ready to go on defense. MKG was to, but like Doordoor said, the shot was MUCH worse.

Okoro is also a much better ball handler and passer than any of those guys

He's a totally different tier of prospect imo. But I'm really high on him..

For me I'm only set in stone on my top 2 prospects right now, but the lowest I could possibly but Okoro on my big board is 6.


Hollis-Jefferson is a good defender. And coming out of the draft he looked like an elite defender. Okoro isnt a ball-handler and neither were the other two players. But they all handled the ball in transition and were solid passers in college. Okoro is probably the best finisher, but again low usage. Okoro has the best natural defensive ability for sure, but his offense still lacks a lot.

I just dont see him becoming a scorer being able to break down a defense. He'd have to make huge strides in ball handling and shooting. His best case scenerio is like a Aaron Gordon But then again Gordon is bigger and more bouncy.


Aaron Gordon isn’t a defender, Okoro is a much better defender than Aaron Gordon. At least on the perimeter. Plus Gordon has always had somewhat of a handle. He was considered a top 3 prospect from high school to college. He isn’t similar to Okoro.
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Re: [Better Prospect?] — Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell? 

Post#50 » by mattao313 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:10 pm

doordoor123 wrote:
mattao313 wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:
Hollis-Jefferson is a good defender. And coming out of the draft he looked like an elite defender. Okoro isnt a ball-handler and neither were the other two players. But they all handled the ball in transition and were solid passers in college. Okoro is probably the best finisher, but again low usage. Okoro has the best natural defensive ability for sure, but his offense still lacks a lot.

I just dont see him becoming a scorer being able to break down a defense. He'd have to make huge strides in ball handling and shooting. His best case scenerio is like a Aaron Gordon But then again Gordon is bigger and more bouncy.


Aaron Gordon isn’t a defender, Okoro is a much better defender than Aaron Gordon. At least on the perimeter. Plus Gordon has always had somewhat of a handle. He was considered a top 3 prospect from high school to college. He isn’t similar to Okoro.

I was talking best case scenario on offense, but sure maybe your right probably closer to OG Anunoby if everything went right what you think of that? Realistically he will probably just camp in the corner on offense while getting some transition buckets.
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Re: [Better Prospect?] — Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell? 

Post#51 » by getrichordie » Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:15 pm

OG Anunoby was, indeed, a very similar prospect coming out.
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Re: [Better Prospect?] — Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell? 

Post#52 » by doordoor123 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:54 pm

getrichordie wrote:OG Anunoby was, indeed, a very similar prospect coming out.


OG is more similar. OG still didnt have the finishing ability Okoro has and I dont think OG is as quick as Okoro. Than again, Okoro doesnt have the size, body or athleticism of OG. But that is proabably the best comparison in terms of production and natural defensive ability while lacking offensive ability. But the question remains, how good can OG be offensively? His handle is improving, but can it be at the level of a superstar? Until that happens he won't be able to be a leading scorer.
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Re: [Better Prospect?] — Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell? 

Post#53 » by mattao313 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:49 pm

doordoor123 wrote:
getrichordie wrote:OG Anunoby was, indeed, a very similar prospect coming out.


OG is more similar. OG still didnt have the finishing ability Okoro has and I dont think OG is as quick as Okoro. Than again, Okoro doesnt have the size, body or athleticism of OG. But that is proabably the best comparison in terms of production and natural defensive ability while lacking offensive ability. But the question remains, how good can OG be offensively? His handle is improving, but can it be at the level of a superstar? Until that happens he won't be able to be a leading scorer.

I think thats an easy no.
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Re: [Better Prospect?] — Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell? 

Post#54 » by MotownMadness » Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:35 pm

Whenever I watched Okoro he just settles into that role-player mentality. I'm not sure if it would be more of a skillset or mentality issue holding him back from being a bigger offensive threat.

Hes just not that aggressive as a main scoring option.
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Re: [Better Prospect?] — Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell? 

Post#55 » by vincecarter4pres » Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:12 pm

I'd just like to talk more about Devin Vassell. Or really just ask some questions and express some concerns on him and hear you guys talk about him.

I haven't kept up with college B-ball this last shortened season, so a lot of what I'm basing stuff off of, is scouting and highlight vids of all these guys and the main thing I keep coming back to with Vassell is:

Is his first step just tragically bad, or is it more so his undeveloped, sloppy raw handle?

And if it is mainly his tragic first step, is it something that has potential to improve when he improves his body and conditioning? Because he is a fluid athlete, but there's a serious lack of explosion with the ball, that Imho isn't just his handle, he just doesn't have true burst from a standstill on the perimeter. I have thought the same of some players in the past, like Jamal Murray and even Bradley Beal for example, but not to this extreme for a guy whose such a lauded prospect.

I see Paul George comparisons, and I understand we're talking ceiling and just style of play, but I see someone much more Danny Green in the league. There's nothing wrong with that. Prime Danny Green was an ace defender, great shooter, solid in transition and I was always stunned he was slept on so much going into the draft and that he was passed around so much his first few years in the league.

But I'm just trying to understand, is he a lot more Anthony Morrow with some solid D and transition ability(Morrow had concrete feet, which was exposed on D, so I'm not relating that aspect), or is he maybe slightly shorter small forward Sonics, Rashard Lewis in the making?

I get this guy doesn't need to have Kyrie playground handles, or a ridiculous Dwayne Wade first step to eventually be a high level starter, maybe multiple time All Star, but if he's a guy who can literally not even get past Vucecic on a switch with the ball in his hands because he has the explosion of Zach Randolph on the perimeter and can't dribble the ball more than once in a straight line without bouncing it off his foot, he's going to be targeted on traps all the time in crunch time situations and be a walking turnover.
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Re: [Better Prospect?] — Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell? 

Post#56 » by pcbothwel » Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:17 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:I'd just like to talk more about Devin Vassell. Or really just ask some questions and express some concerns on him and hear you guys talk about him.

I haven't kept up with college B-ball this last shortened season, so a lot of what I'm basing stuff off of, is scouting and highlight vids of all these guys and the main thing I keep coming back to with Vassell is:

Is his first step just tragically bad, or is it more so his undeveloped, sloppy raw handle?

And if it is mainly his tragic first step, is it something that has potential to improve when he improves his body and conditioning? Because he is a fluid athlete, but there's a serious lack of explosion with the ball, that Imho isn't just his handle, he just doesn't have true burst from a standstill on the perimeter. I have thought the same of some players in the past, like Jamal Murray and even Bradley Beal for example, but not to this extreme for a guy whose such a lauded prospect.

I see Paul George comparisons, and I understand we're talking ceiling and just style of play, but I see someone much more Danny Green in the league. There's nothing wrong with that. Prime Danny Green was an ace defender, great shooter, solid in transition and I was always stunned he was slept on so much going into the draft and that he was passed around so much his first few years in the league.

But I'm just trying to understand, is he a lot more Anthony Morrow with some solid D and transition ability(Morrow had concrete feet, which was exposed on D, so I'm not relating that aspect), or is he maybe slightly shorter small forward Sonics, Rashard Lewis in the making?

I get this guy doesn't need to have Kyrie playground handles, or a ridiculous Dwayne Wade first step to eventually be a high level starter, maybe multiple time All Star, but if he's a guy who can literally not even get past Vucecic on a switch with the ball in his hands because he has the explosion of Zach Randolph on the perimeter and can't dribble the ball more than once in a straight line without bouncing it off his foot, he's going to be targeted on traps all the time in crunch time situations and be a walking turnover.


I keep coming back to Otto Porter:
Young Sophomore with thin/weak frame, below average to terrible first step and explosion... But 3 & D prototype that rebounds well. And while neither rack up assist, they both make the right pass (Hockey assist) and Never turn the ball over. In a game that values leadership, defense, and possessions, players like Vassell and Porter always matter more than people think.

Otto flamed out because of injuries, but dont lose site that at 23 y/o he put up 15 & 7 on a TS of 63% and elite team defense. There were serious debates about whether Otto or Beal was the better young prospect.

One issue he always had was his complacency with being a role player and not demanding more shots. But looking back on that season, you see some ridiculous games.
Boston: 34 / 14 / 4 / 3 / 3 with zero turnovers on only 19 shots :o

I think Vassell is actually a bit more assertive and vocal than Otto, so that could benefit him a bit as well.
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Re: [Better Prospect?] — Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell? 

Post#57 » by Nate the Great » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:21 pm

Okoro is a demon in defense, capable of guarding four positions well. On offense, he gets to the basket well and that’s about it. He’s sub - .300 from three and his FT% doesn’t inspire confidence that he’ll get that much better. His assist / turnover ratio is about one. So, if he has the ball, just stop him from penetrating and you’re in good shape. If you draft him, you’re banking that he can develop as a shooter.

Vassell isn’t Okoro level as a defender, but he’s good, and he can shoot. So Vassell is probably a safer bet, at least.

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Re: [Better Prospect?] — Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell? 

Post#58 » by gswhoops » Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:52 pm

Nate the Great wrote:Okoro is a demon in defense, capable of guarding four positions well. On offense, he gets to the basket well and that’s about it. He’s sub - .300 from three and his FT% doesn’t inspire confidence that he’ll get that much better. His assist / turnover ratio is about one. So, if he has the ball, just stop him from penetrating and you’re in good shape. If you draft him, you’re banking that he can develop as a shooter.

Vassell isn’t Okoro level as a defender, but he’s good, and he can shoot. So Vassell is probably a safer bet, at least.

Agree - I see Okoro as a guy with an Iguodala-like ceiling but a Stanley Johnson floor; whereas Vassell is somewhere between a poor man's Danny Green and a rich man's Danny Green.

I think Okoro is a better prospect overall but would take Vassell for the Warriors because he's more ready now. If we trade down Vassell is my #2 target for GS (behind Haliburton).
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Re: [Better Prospect?] — Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell? 

Post#59 » by DevinVassell » Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:49 am

Behind Wiseman, Vassell is actually my favorite guy in the draft. At 6'7 can defend AND SHOOT.

Okoro would have been better choosing NFL as a career path.
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Re: [Better Prospect?] — Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell? 

Post#60 » by PerkinsFor3 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:41 am

Okoro also reminds me somewhat of guys like Justin Anderson and Terrence Williams. And I was kind of high on both coming into the draft.
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