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[Hal14]

Sabonis has played more minutes at C than he has at PF, and would play almost exclusively there on most teams that don’t have another quality starter that can only play C. I’m not sure why someone would be hung up on Sabonis not being C sized.


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Someone who has an agenda.

Or someone who can't comprehend how a guy who's 6'10" with a 7'0" wingspan and 240 lbs. could possibly play center in the NBA.

e's not athletic? hmm, that's interesting, this is the first I'm hearing that a guy who threw down a 1 hand dunk from 2 feet outside the restricted area on one play, jumped from 2 feet outside the restricted area on another play to make a chase down block, and on another play threw down a 360 dunk, did all of those in a professional game at age 18, I didn't know a guy could do those things and not be athletic lol

[SNPA]

He has NBA athleticism and appears to have enough size to play center in this era. For the difficulties of roster construction he poses at center he poses even more at PF. I think you draft him as a center that can play in some two big sets. I don’t see how he defends all these modern fours who are really big wings.

[EvanZ]

e's not athletic? hmm, that's interesting, this is the first I'm hearing that a guy who threw down a 1 hand dunk from 2 feet outside the restricted area on one play, jumped from 2 feet outside the restricted area on another play to make a chase down block, and on another play threw down a 360 dunk, did all of those in a professional game at age 18, I didn't know a guy could do those things and not be athletic lol

Tell me something. Why is Blake Griffin such a terrible defender? I mean he can dunk a basketball too, right?

[EvanZ]

Or someone who can't comprehend how a guy who's 6'10" with a 7'0" wingspan and 240 lbs. could possibly play center in the NBA.

Give me the list of *starting* NBA centers with these measurements.

[Charm]

I'm glad this discussion happened, because I'm starting to think that Sengun may be a bit bigger than I initially thought (thanks to that Mirotic user for pointing out that listed heights for international guys are typically barefoot).

Consider this film of his Besiktas teammate Osmani. Can you see a significant size difference between Osmani and Sengun (23)?

Watch on YouTube

Osmani measured 6'10.5" in socks, 7'0" in shoes at the 2018 NBA Global camp (https://eurospects.com/2018-europeans-measurements), but like Sengun still has a 6'9" figure floating around the interwebs that's probably well out of date.

Overall though I agree with Evan that you can't necessarily determine whether a guy can play center by looking at measurements alone. What matters is whether he can rebound and block shots at an acceptable level. If he can't, then he's probably going to be a defensive liability at center. That's what forces guys like Griffin, Bagley, Love, Saric, and Sabonis (poor shot blocking for one reason or another) over to PF. It's also what forces some skinnier or less-physical 7-footers over to PF (poor rebounding).

Fortunately for Sengun, there's plenty of evidence that he's an excellent rebounder and a very good shot blocker.

[Hal14]

Or someone who can't comprehend how a guy who's 6'10" with a 7'0" wingspan and 240 lbs. could possibly play center in the NBA.

Give me the list of *starting* NBA centers with these measurements.

Capela 6'10", 240 lbs (exact same measurements as Sengun)
Jakob Poeltl 7'0", 229 lbs (2 inches taller than Sengun but Sengun has 11 lbs on Poeltl so I'd say they are in the same ballpark)
Blake Griffin 6'9", 249 lbs. (sengun is 1 inch taller but 9 lbs lighter, same ballpark)
Biyombo 6'8", 255 lbs. (sengun is 2 inches taller, 15 lbs less, same ballpark)
Kelly Olynyk (started a lot at center after trade to houston) 6'11", 240 lbs (same weight, olynyk 1 inch taller, same ballpark)
Plumlee 6'11", 236 lbs, (sengun 1 inch short but 4 lbs heavier, same ballpark)
Zubac 7'0", 240 lbs (same weight as sengun, zubac 2 inches taller, same ballpark)
Batum (has started for clippers at center in game 1 vs jazz) 6'8", 200 lbs (sengun significantly bigger)
Al Horford 6'9", 240 lbs (Sengun same weight and 1 inch taller so he is slightly bigger)
Christian Wood (started at center for rockets most of the time when he was healthy) 6'10", 215 lbs (sengun same height, 25 lbs heavier so obviously sengun is bigger)
Holmes 6'10", 235 lbs (sengun slightly bigger)
Bam 6'9", 255 lbs, (Sengun 1 inch taller, 15 lbs lighter, same ballpark)
Anthony Davis (starts quite a bit at center for lakers) 6'10", 254 lbs (same height, 14 lbs more than Sengun, same ballpark)
Robert williams (when healthy starts for celtics at center), 6'8", 237 lbs (sengun is a little bigger obviously)
Nerlens Noel (started for knicks 2nd half of season after robinson injury), 6'11", 220 lbs (sengun 1 inch shorter but 20 lbs heavier, same ballpark)
Tristan Thompson (started at center most of season for celtics) 6'9", 238 lbs, (sengun obviously a little bigger)
Mo Bamba (started at center quite a bit for magic after the Vucevic trade) 7'0", 231 lbs (sengun 2 inches short but 9 lbs heavier, same ballpark
Looney (started at center most of the time when wiseman was out) 6'9", 222 lbs (sengun obviously bigger)
Theis (started at center all last year for celtics team that made ECF), 6'8", 245 (sengun2. inches taller, theis 5 lbs heavier, same ballpark)
Kleiber (started quite a bit for Mavs, including almost every game in the clippers series), 6'10", 240 lbs (same measurements as sengun)
Jarrett Allen 6'11", 243 lbs (only 1 inch and 3 lbs bigger than sengun, basically same ballpark)

Pretty sure the list of 4's Sengun is bigger than is just as long, if not longer

Turner and Towns are only a little bigger than sengun. Sabonis would be a center on most teams - he's same weight as sengun, 1 inch taller so same ballpark. Guys like Kanter, Nurkic and Drummond are bigger but they're so slow and lack any type of perimeter game that they are rapidly becoming unplaybable, especially in the playoffs.

[NO-KG-AI]

e's not athletic? hmm, that's interesting, this is the first I'm hearing that a guy who threw down a 1 hand dunk from 2 feet outside the restricted area on one play, jumped from 2 feet outside the restricted area on another play to make a chase down block, and on another play threw down a 360 dunk, did all of those in a professional game at age 18, I didn't know a guy could do those things and not be athletic lol

Tell me something. Why is Blake Griffin such a terrible defender? I mean he can dunk a basketball too, right?

Mostly effort and awareness. Blake’s length keeps him from being an all time great rim protector, but smaller and less athletic players were great defenders because they played harder and smarter defense.

[EvanZ]

e's not athletic? hmm, that's interesting, this is the first I'm hearing that a guy who threw down a 1 hand dunk from 2 feet outside the restricted area on one play, jumped from 2 feet outside the restricted area on another play to make a chase down block, and on another play threw down a 360 dunk, did all of those in a professional game at age 18, I didn't know a guy could do those things and not be athletic lol

Tell me something. Why is Blake Griffin such a terrible defender? I mean he can dunk a basketball too, right?

Mostly effort and awareness. Blake’s length keeps him from being an all time great rim protector, but smaller and less athletic players were great defenders because they played harder and smarter defense.

That's part of it. The real answer is he's just slow-footed laterally. That's the part that you have to worry about Sengun. It's laughable that some people think because a guy can dunk he is automatically "athletic" at every aspect of the game. Obi Toppin a great example of a guy who most people think is super "athletic", when that really just means he's vertically explosive. But he's slow as hell in every other direction.

[EvanZ]

Or someone who can't comprehend how a guy who's 6'10" with a 7'0" wingspan and 240 lbs. could possibly play center in the NBA.

Give me the list of *starting* NBA centers with these measurements.

Capela 6'10", 240 lbs (exact same measurements as Sengun)
Jakob Poeltl 7'0", 229 lbs (2 inches taller than Sengun but Sengun has 11 lbs on Poeltl so I'd say they are in the same ballpark)
Blake Griffin 6'9", 249 lbs. (sengun is 1 inch taller but 9 lbs lighter, same ballpark)
Biyombo 6'8", 255 lbs. (sengun is 2 inches taller, 15 lbs less, same ballpark)
Kelly Olynyk (started a lot at center after trade to houston) 6'11", 240 lbs (same weight, olynyk 1 inch taller, same ballpark)
Plumlee 6'11", 236 lbs, (sengun 1 inch short but 4 lbs heavier, same ballpark)
Zubac 7'0", 240 lbs (same weight as sengun, zubac 2 inches taller, same ballpark)
Batum (has started for clippers at center in game 1 vs jazz) 6'8", 200 lbs (sengun significantly bigger)
Al Horford 6'9", 240 lbs (Sengun same weight and 1 inch taller so he is slightly bigger)
Christian Wood (started at center for rockets most of the time when he was healthy) 6'10", 215 lbs (sengun same height, 25 lbs heavier so obviously sengun is bigger)
Holmes 6'10", 235 lbs (sengun slightly bigger)
Bam 6'9", 255 lbs, (Sengun 1 inch taller, 15 lbs lighter, same ballpark)
Anthony Davis (starts quite a bit at center for lakers) 6'10", 254 lbs (same height, 14 lbs more than Sengun, same ballpark)
Robert williams (when healthy starts for celtics at center), 6'8", 237 lbs (sengun is a little bigger obviously)
Nerlens Noel (started for knicks 2nd half of season after robinson injury), 6'11", 220 lbs (sengun 1 inch shorter but 20 lbs heavier, same ballpark)
Tristan Thompson (started at center most of season for celtics) 6'9", 238 lbs, (sengun obviously a little bigger)
Mo Bamba (started at center quite a bit for magic after the Vucevic trade) 7'0", 231 lbs (sengun 2 inches short but 9 lbs heavier, same ballpark
Looney (started at center most of the time when wiseman was out) 6'9", 222 lbs (sengun obviously bigger)
Theis (started at center all last year for celtics team that made ECF), 6'8", 245 (sengun2. inches taller, theis 5 lbs heavier, same ballpark)
Kleiber (started quite a bit for Mavs, including almost every game in the clippers series), 6'10", 240 lbs (same measurements as sengun)
Jarrett Allen 6'11", 243 lbs (only 1 inch and 3 lbs bigger than sengun, basically same ballpark)

What a ridiculous list. Half the guys have much longer wingspans/reach than Sengun and the other half are simply not starting centers. Blake Griffin was never a starting center until LaMarcus Aldridge retired LOL.

For example, Looney 7'3" ws. Robert Williams 7'5" wingspan. Clint Capela 7'5" wingspan. You can't just ignore that man as much as you seem eager to.

Once again, please give me the list of *starting centers* who are 6'10" 240lbs with a 7' wingspan. You get one more try.

[Charm]

Give me the list of *starting* NBA centers with these measurements.

Capela 6'10", 240 lbs (exact same measurements as Sengun)
Jakob Poeltl 7'0", 229 lbs (2 inches taller than Sengun but Sengun has 11 lbs on Poeltl so I'd say they are in the same ballpark)
Blake Griffin 6'9", 249 lbs. (sengun is 1 inch taller but 9 lbs lighter, same ballpark)
Biyombo 6'8", 255 lbs. (sengun is 2 inches taller, 15 lbs less, same ballpark)
Kelly Olynyk (started a lot at center after trade to houston) 6'11", 240 lbs (same weight, olynyk 1 inch taller, same ballpark)
Plumlee 6'11", 236 lbs, (sengun 1 inch short but 4 lbs heavier, same ballpark)
Zubac 7'0", 240 lbs (same weight as sengun, zubac 2 inches taller, same ballpark)
Batum (has started for clippers at center in game 1 vs jazz) 6'8", 200 lbs (sengun significantly bigger)
Al Horford 6'9", 240 lbs (Sengun same weight and 1 inch taller so he is slightly bigger)
Christian Wood (started at center for rockets most of the time when he was healthy) 6'10", 215 lbs (sengun same height, 25 lbs heavier so obviously sengun is bigger)
Holmes 6'10", 235 lbs (sengun slightly bigger)
Bam 6'9", 255 lbs, (Sengun 1 inch taller, 15 lbs lighter, same ballpark)
Anthony Davis (starts quite a bit at center for lakers) 6'10", 254 lbs (same height, 14 lbs more than Sengun, same ballpark)
Robert williams (when healthy starts for celtics at center), 6'8", 237 lbs (sengun is a little bigger obviously)
Nerlens Noel (started for knicks 2nd half of season after robinson injury), 6'11", 220 lbs (sengun 1 inch shorter but 20 lbs heavier, same ballpark)
Tristan Thompson (started at center most of season for celtics) 6'9", 238 lbs, (sengun obviously a little bigger)
Mo Bamba (started at center quite a bit for magic after the Vucevic trade) 7'0", 231 lbs (sengun 2 inches short but 9 lbs heavier, same ballpark
Looney (started at center most of the time when wiseman was out) 6'9", 222 lbs (sengun obviously bigger)
Theis (started at center all last year for celtics team that made ECF), 6'8", 245 (sengun2. inches taller, theis 5 lbs heavier, same ballpark)
Kleiber (started quite a bit for Mavs, including almost every game in the clippers series), 6'10", 240 lbs (same measurements as sengun)
Jarrett Allen 6'11", 243 lbs (only 1 inch and 3 lbs bigger than sengun, basically same ballpark)

What a ridiculous list. Half the guys have much longer wingspans/reach than Sengun and the other half are simply not starting centers. Blake Griffin was never a starting center until LaMarcus Aldridge retired LOL.

For example, Looney 7'3" ws. Robert Williams 7'5" wingspan. Clint Capela 7'5" wingspan. You can't just ignore that man as much as you seem eager to.

Once again, please give me the list of *starting centers* who are 6'10" 240lbs with a 7' wingspan. You get one more try.

If you think he's a PF, maybe you could try to find some PFs who're 6'10" 240lbs with a 7' wingspan. That'd make your case more convincing.

Or at any point we could agree that a player's position depends less on whether his height is above or below some arbitrary cutoff, and more on the skills he brings to the table. I think we all know that there's no perfect 1:1 correlation between physical measurements and rebounding/shot blocking impact, especially when you get down to margins of single inches between players.

[EvanZ]

The thing is we both agree he’s big enough to be a 4. Nobody is questioning that. The question is how many starting centers are his size, which is basically the same size as Kevin Love or Domantas Sabonis. The answer is very very few.

[Charm]

The thing is we both agree he’s big enough to be a 4. Nobody is questioning that. The question is how many starting centers are his size, which is basically the same size as Kevin Love or Domantas Sabonis. The answer is very very few.

If he's bigger than almost all 4's, and a better rebounder than almost all 4's, and a better shot blocker than almost all 4's...then...maybe he's not a 4?

It's not complicated.

[EvanZ]

The thing is we both agree he’s big enough to be a 4. Nobody is questioning that. The question is how many starting centers are his size, which is basically the same size as Kevin Love or Domantas Sabonis. The answer is very very few.

If he's bigger than almost all 4's, and a better rebounder than almost all 4's, and a better shot blocker than almost all 4's...then...maybe he's not a 4?

It's not complicated.

It's not complicated at all, because he's obviously a 4. Let me ask you this. What is the team that is drafting him that will start him at the 5 in your opinion? Charlotte?

[Hal14]

The thing is we both agree he’s big enough to be a 4. Nobody is questioning that. The question is how many starting centers are his size, which is basically the same size as Kevin Love or Domantas Sabonis. The answer is very very few.

If he's bigger than almost all 4's, and a better rebounder than almost all 4's, and a better shot blocker than almost all 4's...then...maybe he's not a 4?

It's not complicated.

It's not complicated at all, because he's obviously a 4. Let me ask you this. What is the team that is drafting him that will start him at the 5 in your opinion? Charlotte?

1) Charlotte. Toronto. Oklahoma City. Washington. Golden State (if they trade Wiseman, lots of trade rumors swirling around), Orlando, Pelicans (trying to trade adams and even if they keep him for 1 more year, that 1 year you bring sengun off the bench behind Adams and then start sengun in 2022-2023 once adams is gone), Spurs, Celtics, Knicks..

2) also, why are you deflecting the question charm asked you? He asked you why is it that Sengun is bigger than pretty much every 4 in the league..yet you don't think he's a 5, even though In just listed out like 15 starting 5's who are same size as sengun, smaller than sengun or in same ballpark size-wise as sengun..

[Charm]

The thing is we both agree he’s big enough to be a 4. Nobody is questioning that. The question is how many starting centers are his size, which is basically the same size as Kevin Love or Domantas Sabonis. The answer is very very few.

If he's bigger than almost all 4's, and a better rebounder than almost all 4's, and a better shot blocker than almost all 4's...then...maybe he's not a 4?

It's not complicated.

It's not complicated at all, because he's obviously a 4. Let me ask you this. What is the team that is drafting him that will start him at the 5 in your opinion? Charlotte?

Is this a trick question? Only a few teams drafting in the lottery or the teens are heavily invested in a true center (Warriors, Cavs if they extend Allen, Pacers if they think Turner can stay healthy), and they probably won't draft Sengun to play him out of position at the 4.

I wish you could understand how funny this is. He's literally a just few weeks removed from an MVP season at the 5, and you're saying that's "obviously" not his position. I can tell that you're mainly an NCAA guy (and as I mentioned before, I'm actually in really close agreement with you on most NCAA prospects). But when it comes to international prospects, I suggest that you do a little homework instead of doubling down on random hot takes.

[WuTang_OG]

It's funny that some people think an unathletic nothing-special 18-year-old could win MVP in Turkey. Probably the same people who thought Doncic was an unathletic nothing-special wing a few years ago.

Yep. And he looks pretty athletic to me.

[EMG518]

Anyone whom thinks this kid is playing the 4 has lost it. Have you watched the kids feet move for a second.

[Charm]

Anyone whom thinks this kid is playing the 4 has lost it. Have you watched the kids feet move for a second.

Yeah, i'm obviously a big fan...but...I don't think you want Sengun chasing wings around the 3-point line, and he'll be doing a lot of that if he plays PF. Not his ideal role.

[EvanZ]

If you don't think he can be a 4, then it means he probably shouldn't be a high draft pick. Because he's definitely not a starting center. Not long enough or athletic enough. It's exactly why Indiana can't get away with trading Myles Turner, even though it would obviously make sense if Domantas was good enough to be a full time center.

[EvanZ]

Anyone whom thinks this kid is playing the 4 has lost it. Have you watched the kids feet move for a second.

I mean it's going to be more of a liability at center than at 4. At least, if he's a 4 you can put a rim protector behind him. If he's playing the 5, he's going to get hunted on every PNR and just get torched at the rim. Again, this is why Indiana still has Myles Turner.