Ziaire Williams - Stanford

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Re: Ziaire Williams - Stanford 

Post#21 » by crows2 » Fri Jan 8, 2021 11:35 am

God Squad wrote:
crows2 wrote:I still fear he’s the Reddish/Knox of this draft. Just doesn’t seem to have “it” mentally.

So far he's been more productive than both. Especially Knox who has no business being drafted where he did. Reddish has definitely flashed since coming to the league, but still iffy at times.


No he hasn't. Even after today's game he's only averaging 11ppg on 34.9% from the field with disastrous advanced stats. His numbers thus far are slightly worse than Reddish and far worse than Knox. And despite "flashing", Reddish has again been statistically one of the worst players in the league this year. He should've been benched by the Hawks already.
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Re: Ziaire Williams - Stanford 

Post#22 » by God Squad » Fri Jan 8, 2021 11:39 am

crows2 wrote:
God Squad wrote:
crows2 wrote:I still fear he’s the Reddish/Knox of this draft. Just doesn’t seem to have “it” mentally.

So far he's been more productive than both. Especially Knox who has no business being drafted where he did. Reddish has definitely flashed since coming to the league, but still iffy at times.


No he hasn't. Even after today's game he's only averaging 11ppg on 34.9% from the field with disastrous advanced stats. His numbers thus far are slightly worse than Reddish and far worse than Knox. And despite "flashing", Reddish has again been statistically one of the worst players in the league this year. He should've been benched by the Hawks already.

The shooting percentages can go up for Williams but I agree I guess. But Willams has shown more than both as a playmaker IMO.
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Re: Ziaire Williams - Stanford 

Post#23 » by crows2 » Fri Jan 8, 2021 12:38 pm

God Squad wrote:
crows2 wrote:
God Squad wrote:So far he's been more productive than both. Especially Knox who has no business being drafted where he did. Reddish has definitely flashed since coming to the league, but still iffy at times.


No he hasn't. Even after today's game he's only averaging 11ppg on 34.9% from the field with disastrous advanced stats. His numbers thus far are slightly worse than Reddish and far worse than Knox. And despite "flashing", Reddish has again been statistically one of the worst players in the league this year. He should've been benched by the Hawks already.

The shooting percentages can go up for Williams but I agree I guess. But Willams has shown more than both as a playmaker IMO.


He’d want to cut down on turnovers if he’s ever going to be a plus playmaker. Currently has a TOV% of 22%.
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Re: Ziaire Williams - Stanford 

Post#24 » by cgf » Fri Jan 8, 2021 4:17 pm

crows2 wrote:
God Squad wrote:
crows2 wrote:
No he hasn't. Even after today's game he's only averaging 11ppg on 34.9% from the field with disastrous advanced stats. His numbers thus far are slightly worse than Reddish and far worse than Knox. And despite "flashing", Reddish has again been statistically one of the worst players in the league this year. He should've been benched by the Hawks already.

The shooting percentages can go up for Williams but I agree I guess. But Willams has shown more than both as a playmaker IMO.


He’d want to cut down on turnovers if he’s ever going to be a plus playmaker. Currently has a TOV% of 22%.


Let's see where things stand when the season ends. Because of that bike crash he only started moving like himself a few games ago, and we just saw Stanford put him in a significant on-ball role for the first time last night. Judging him on his #s to this point would be completely pointless.

Plus he's a lot smarter than Knox. Thibs & Julius may still turn Kevin into a functional rotation player in the NBA, but he'll always be an airhead. Ziaire's a smart kid who is adapting to a new level and his intelligence is palpable when you watch him.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Ziaire Williams - Stanford 

Post#25 » by crows2 » Fri Jan 8, 2021 5:25 pm

cgf wrote:
crows2 wrote:
God Squad wrote:The shooting percentages can go up for Williams but I agree I guess. But Willams has shown more than both as a playmaker IMO.


He’d want to cut down on turnovers if he’s ever going to be a plus playmaker. Currently has a TOV% of 22%.


Let's see where things stand when the season ends. Because of that bike crash he only started moving like himself a few games ago, and we just saw Stanford put him in a significant on-ball role for the first time last night. Judging him on his #s to this point would be completely pointless.

Plus he's a lot smarter than Knox. Thibs & Julius may still turn Kevin into a functional rotation player in the NBA, but he'll always be an airhead. Ziaire's a smart kid who is adapting to a new level and his intelligence is palpable when you watch him.


Fair enough but I’m not talking about intelligence, I’m looking at mental fortitude. From what I’ve seen so far (in high school and college) he lacks what it takes mentally to fulfil his potential. Early to judge though as you say.
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Re: Ziaire Williams - Stanford 

Post#26 » by cgf » Fri Jan 8, 2021 5:50 pm

crows2 wrote:
cgf wrote:
crows2 wrote:
He’d want to cut down on turnovers if he’s ever going to be a plus playmaker. Currently has a TOV% of 22%.


Let's see where things stand when the season ends. Because of that bike crash he only started moving like himself a few games ago, and we just saw Stanford put him in a significant on-ball role for the first time last night. Judging him on his #s to this point would be completely pointless.

Plus he's a lot smarter than Knox. Thibs & Julius may still turn Kevin into a functional rotation player in the NBA, but he'll always be an airhead. Ziaire's a smart kid who is adapting to a new level and his intelligence is palpable when you watch him.


Fair enough but I’m not talking about intelligence, I’m looking at mental fortitude. From what I’ve seen so far (in high school and college) he lacks what it takes mentally to fulfil his potential. Early to judge though as you say.


I've only seen clips of his play in HS so can't comment on that, and I don't think we've seen nearly enough yet to judge his mental fortitude at the college level. So you may well be completely right. That said, if he builds on this last game like I'm hoping he will, I would feel a lot more confident in him than I was in Knox or even Reddish...whom I liked a lot more than Kevin & haven't given up on becoming a high-end role player in his prime.

I don't have a strong opinion on his mental fortitude yet...but what he has shown so far, has generally been positive (IMO) & feels like one of the biggest differences between him & reddish to me; since I do think Cam is a smart kid too, he's just not assertive enough to be more than a role player.

Despite how limited Williams was physically to start the season -- because of both the injury itself & the giant knee brace he had to wear until their extended break -- and the supporting role he had in Stanford's offense before the Wills & Davis injuries; the kid seems to have just kept putting in the work to adjust to this new level of competition & carve out his place.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Ziaire Williams - Stanford 

Post#27 » by Marcus » Sat Jan 9, 2021 2:08 am

Watch More Basketball

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Re: Ziaire Williams - Stanford 

Post#28 » by cgf » Sat Jan 9, 2021 4:06 am

Marcus wrote:


...the Mavs needs to go back to tanking for us...
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Ziaire Williams - Stanford 

Post#29 » by crows2 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 6:43 am

Marcus wrote:


Still nearly all straight line attack, including his passing. Doesn’t seem to have the ability to make more than one read on each play. He’s also nowhere near the level of knock-down shooters who have been mentioned in this thread (Robinson, Redick etc). Seems to try hard and possess some level of intelligence though, which is at least an improvement on Reddish and Knox.
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Re: Ziaire Williams - Stanford 

Post#30 » by cgf » Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:04 am

Is Ziaire going to be a star out of the gates? I doubt it, is he going to be a #1 option someday & run a playoff caliber offense? Maybe :dontknow:

What I can say for sure is that I really love the base that he has to build from with his tools/skill & instincts...and see a clear path to contributing early, even if he has to start off as a low-usage guy. His length, springy-ness, defensive instincts, cutting & passing will let him make a positive contribution quickly...even if his 3ball (30%) is lagging behind his FT stroke (86%) and his outside shooting will be a big part of his ability to create with the ball in his hands.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Ziaire Williams - Stanford 

Post#31 » by MemphisX » Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:06 am

Really like how he has looked since getting a bit healthier.
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Re: Ziaire Williams - Stanford 

Post#32 » by Marcus » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:10 pm

MemphisX wrote:Really like how he has looked since getting a bit healthier.


Scroll up, watch the film vid against Washington
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Re: Ziaire Williams - Stanford 

Post#33 » by EvanZ » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:50 pm

It's funny in many ways he reminds me of Kessler Edwards.
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Re: Ziaire Williams - Stanford 

Post#34 » by cgf » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:38 pm

Frustrating night for Stanford, but Ziaire was looking good before picking up his 4th foul. He'll need to get stronger to improve his finishing at the next level, but a kid with his length & springiness, who can get his team-mates good looks and drain 3s off the bounce with confidence, is always going to be fun to watch.

I know we won't get Cade (or Suggs), but can the Knicks please get Ziaire?
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Ziaire Williams - Stanford 

Post#35 » by Catchall » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:38 am

I'm having a hard time buying in on Ziaire Williams. He just seems too soft physically to do the things you want him to do.
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Re: Ziaire Williams - Stanford 

Post#36 » by cgf » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:41 pm

Catchall wrote:I'm having a hard time buying in on Ziaire Williams. He just seems too soft physically to do the things you want him to do.


He's definitely going to need to get stronger to finish inside, but that's not exactly uncommon with 18-year-olds & it's his outside shooting that's going to open his game up. With his ability to shoot off the bounce, NBA defenders will have to fight over screens or switch when he runs PnRs even before he's gotten strong enough to finish reliably when he attacks the hoop.

Totally agree that his strength will limit how much he's able to do early, but I also don't really care that it'll take him a few years to really break out. He should be able to contribute on the perimeter early.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.

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