RealGM

Is James Bouknight indisputably the best shot-creator in this class outside the top 6 or are there players who are mocked lower than him that could potentially have equal or even better shot-creating ability?

Still not seeing any reason to prefer Bouknight over Cam Thomas, who's a year younger and produced much more consistently.

Charm wrote:Still not seeing any reason to prefer Bouknight over Cam Thomas, who's a year younger and produced much more consistently.

I haven't seen enough of Cameron Thomas yet to judge but that's the exact type of response I'm looking for in this thread

Shot creation only for himself or also others? And are we only talking about potential or also about current ability?

Nuntius wrote:

Charm wrote:Still not seeing any reason to prefer Bouknight over Cam Thomas, who's a year younger and produced much more consistently.

I haven't seen enough of Cameron Thomas yet to judge but that's the exact type of response I'm looking for in this thread

Here he is vs. a very good Michigan defense in the tournament. That's one of 16 games this season in which he scored 25+, so a pretty typical day at the office for him. LSU ranked 5th in the country in offensive efficiency according to Kenpom, and that's largely because Thomas was just an unstoppable scorer.

The-Power wrote:Shot creation only for himself or also others? And are we only talking about potential or also about current ability?

You are correct, I should have been more specific.

Mainly for himself but if the player in question has some playmaking ability it does count as a positive. I am not talking about someone who is mainly a playmaker and not a scorer, though. As for potential versus current ability, I'd lean towards potential.

What is shot creation?

James Bouknight, Tre Mann.

Nuntius wrote:

The-Power wrote:Shot creation only for himself or also others? And are we only talking about potential or also about current ability?

You are correct, I should have been more specific.

Mainly for himself but if the player in question has some playmaking ability it does count as a positive. I am not talking about someone who is mainly a playmaker and not a scorer, though. As for potential versus current ability, I'd lean towards potential.

In terms of potential, I will throw in the name Josh Christopher. Long ways to go and might never get there, but his combination of speed, strength and handles (!) along with confidence in his shot (for the better or worse) mean he has lots of potential as a shot creator.

I like the Tre Mann mention – he'll likely be less versatile but a consistent off-the-dribble and step-back 3 goes a long way in terms of reliable shot creation, and he has arguably as good a chance as anyone in this draft to actually get there.

Depending on the extent to which shot creation for others is factored in, someone might want to see Sharife Cooper mentioned, too (I personally am rather skeptical, though). Moody is a very long shot but a remote possibility if he can become the king of the midrange à la Kawhi and we define shot creation solely as the ability to create a decent shot for himself irrespective of versatility.

Currently, Chris Duarte is probably someone you trust to create a solid shot for himself (compared to other incoming Rookies, that is) but of course he's unlikely to be at the top of this ranking a couple years down the road.

Charm wrote:Still not seeing any reason to prefer Bouknight over Cam Thomas, who's a year younger and produced much more consistently.

Cam Thomas has one of the worst assist rates out of any player in college ball history relative to amt of shots he took, his scoring chops are well beyond his years but **** would he a bitch to play with

Bouknight has similar problems but not as dramatic, also a better athletic profile overall

but yea, as for the Op, it's Thomas/Bouknight for sure outside the top 6, just stupid good scorers even tho i don't necessarily like their overall style or efficiency in general.

a little lower in the draft u got Bones, also Primo and Cooper as dark horses here if u wanna wait a little.

The-Power wrote:

Nuntius wrote:

The-Power wrote:Shot creation only for himself or also others? And are we only talking about potential or also about current ability?

You are correct, I should have been more specific.

Mainly for himself but if the player in question has some playmaking ability it does count as a positive. I am not talking about someone who is mainly a playmaker and not a scorer, though. As for potential versus current ability, I'd lean towards potential.

In terms of potential, I will throw in the name Josh Christopher. Long ways to go and might never get there, but his combination of speed, strength and handles (!) along with confidence in his shot (for the better or worse) mean he has lots of potential as a shot creator.

I like the Tre Mann mention – he'll likely be less versatile but a consistent off-the-dribble and step-back 3 goes a long way in terms of reliable shot creation, and he has arguably as good a chance as anyone in this draft to actually get there.

Depending on the extent to which shot creation for others is factored in, someone might want to see Sharife Cooper mentioned, too (I personally am rather skeptical, though). Moody is a very long shot but a remote possibility if he can become the king of the midrange à la Kawhi and we define shot creation solely as the ability to create a decent shot for himself irrespective of versatility.

Currently, Chris Duarte is probably someone you trust to create a solid shot for himself (compared to other incoming Rookies, that is) but of course he's unlikely to be at the top of this ranking a couple years down the road.

Very good post. Thanks for the answer

Bones Hyland, Thomas, Mann, Bouknight

clyde21 wrote:

Charm wrote:Still not seeing any reason to prefer Bouknight over Cam Thomas, who's a year younger and produced much more consistently.

Cam Thomas has one of the worst assist rates out of any player in college ball history relative to amt of shots he took, his scoring chops are well beyond his years but **** would he a bitch to play with

Bouknight has similar problems but not as dramatic, also a better athletic profile overall

Yeah, I'm not too high on Thomas for that reason (only 30th on my board). But LSU's consistent success on the offensive end is a big point in his favor. They played a pretty respectable schedule and only had one "dud" offensive game all season. I dunno how his teammates felt about the situation, but Thomas kept the scoreboard ticking basically every single game he played, so he's clearly more than just an empty-stats chucker.

Ayo is at least worth mentioning for later 1st/early 2nd guys.

Cooper would probably be my favorite if we were going more team oriented shot creation.

Cam Thomas was the first name I thought of. If his athletic profile was better he'd certainly go much higher in the draft. I think he can be an instant microwave scorer off the bench depending on where he lands. He's like a less explosive pre injury Eric Gordon in terms of build and style of game. Face up triple threat position and score with only few dribbles. Cj McCollum is another comparison as they are similar athletically although cj possessed more combo guard ability.

I'd add Bones Hyland, Josh Crisotopher, and Ayo Dosunmu to this list. They are further down than the guys mentioned, but I think individual shot creation (i.e. off the dribble) is pretty rare and they can all do it. If you want to talk about off-ball creation (finding space, running off screens, etc.) Corey Kispert should be there, and I wouldn't be surprised if Ziaire Williams and Josh Primo were there. Have not caught much Max Abmas, but maybe he should be mentioned in the first group, too.

Nuntius wrote:Is James Bouknight indisputably the best shot-creator in this class outside the top 6 or are there players who are mocked lower than him that could potentially have equal or even better shot-creating ability?

well who are the top-6 players? i think we have settled on the top-4 (though i did see 1 mock had Barnes in the top-4), but who are you saying are those next 2, that we are looking outside of?

tiderulz wrote:

Nuntius wrote:Is James Bouknight indisputably the best shot-creator in this class outside the top 6 or are there players who are mocked lower than him that could potentially have equal or even better shot-creating ability?

well who are the top-6 players? i think we have settled on the top-4 (though i did see 1 mock had Barnes in the top-4), but who are you saying are those next 2, that we are looking outside of?

Its pretty clearly meant to mean Kuminga and Barnes

Charm wrote:

Nuntius wrote:

Charm wrote:Still not seeing any reason to prefer Bouknight over Cam Thomas, who's a year younger and produced much more consistently.

I haven't seen enough of Cameron Thomas yet to judge but that's the exact type of response I'm looking for in this thread

Here he is vs. a very good Michigan defense in the tournament. That's one of 16 games this season in which he scored 25+, so a pretty typical day at the office for him. LSU ranked 5th in the country in offensive efficiency according to Kenpom, and that's largely because Thomas was just an unstoppable scorer.

Watch on YouTube

Man, this dude looks like a lottery pick. Only 19, already with an NBA frame/body, looks like a beast on that smooth C&S jumper off the curl, step back 3, blocking dude's jump shots..

This draft class is so deep.