2021 Rookie Thread

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2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#1 » by clyde21 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:07 pm

any early thoughts?

Mobes obviously has been great early, I'm his biggest fan and still didn't think he'd look this good this quickly...still expecting some bumps on the way but he's just so good

Barnes had probably the best game overall for a rookie so far, Green just dropped a 30 bomb, Duarte has been good from the get go which was kinda expected given his age but he's gotta be considered here
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#2 » by Marcus » Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:23 pm

Still early i know, im waiting for folks to come around on Mobes doubt, BUT i will say my modday Duncan talk is getting more difficult to suppress.

Liked Giddey more than i expected, the combo with SGA seems to be working fine. You mentioned "thigh highs" and his 30 ball but he's a bonafide bucket so no shock there. Suggs will eventually be alright and i like how Nurse is letting Scottie be Scottie which was one of my concerns coming in.

But yeah by mid-season i expect to be completely depleted of humble when it comes to Evan Mobley
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#3 » by DCasey91 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:53 pm

Mobley strictly in tier one best player in this draft. Green was in that group now it’s just Mobley as the stand alone.

Also Giddey is a jumpshot away from being a star. Had more concerns than Ball but it’s all remedied now (big time development specially bodywise in less than a year). Barnes to his jumpshot is night and day. I actually want him to hone in his midrange game first then go further out as time goes on. Mechanics look decent from the elbow range.
He really could be this gen’s Scottie Pippen.

Anyway Giddey should have had 10+ assists last game with a better team. He opened us up time and time again. We are lucky that their wings aren’t great shooters and clanked about 5 of the easiest looks you’re gonna get in the NBA lol.

Those 3 for me are the clear standout young rookies (including Duarte being older).

Not surprised Green dropped 30, it’s the rest of his game and his physical profile that tempered my expectations.

Went full circle for me lol. Mobley first, then Green, then back to Mobley just before pre draft, 50-50 heading into the season then Mobley in the clear by a distance.

Also can’t wait for Mann/Christopher/Butler/Murphy III/JJ to show more stuff as the season goes on.

Really deep draft, though the top end is a wait and see. Didn’t see a franchise championship best player. But Mobley could really be Gobert like and have top 10-15 winning impact or higher for a team or even the Garnett/Duncan to a winning squad.
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#4 » by Duke4life831 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:05 pm

Mobley is just doing Mobley things. He’s built perfectly for today’s NBA. Elite length, fantastic defensive awareness, with really good mobility. So defensively it was pretty obvious he was going to be a stud.

He’s only shooting 25% from 3 to start the season, but just look at the form and touch, it won’t be long till you can’t leave him open from 3. He’s got the fantastic touch around the rim. But the thing with him is, he fits perfectly in today’s offense. Makes smart plays with the ball in his hands, the ball doesn’t stick but he can hurt you multiple ways in all spots of the floor. His natural passing talents are so obvious.

Just hope he doesn’t have his first 5-7 years wasted on an incompetent team.
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#5 » by yoyoboy » Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:51 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:Just hope he doesn’t have his first 5-7 years wasted on an incompetent team.

You and me both. Altman completely lucked his way into Mobley after one incompetent decision followed by the next. There’s no doubt in my mind he would’ve picked Green if we were number two, despite our influx of guards. At this point, this franchise needs to start making every decision with Evan as the main consideration, and if that involves trading everyone else on the team then so be it. I still like Garland a lot, but Mobley is the clear building block and the only guy on the roster I’m truly confident will be an All Star with time. Trading for Lauri and then immediately extending him was already a horrendous decision, so I don’t have much hope we’ll put a good team around Mobley any time soon unfortunately.
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#6 » by Duke4life831 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:02 pm

yoyoboy wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:Just hope he doesn’t have his first 5-7 years wasted on an incompetent team.

You and me both. Altman completely lucked his way into Mobley after one incompetent decision followed by the next. There’s no doubt in my mind he would’ve picked Green if we were number two, despite our influx of guards. At this point, this franchise needs to start making every decision with Evan as the main consideration, and if that involves trading everyone else on the team then so be it. I still like Garland a lot, but Mobley is the clear building block and the only guy on the roster I’m truly confident will be an All Star with time. Trading for Lauri and then immediately extending him was already a horrendous decision, so I don’t have much hope we’ll put a good team around Mobley any time soon unfortunately.


100% this. When thinking about building the team, Garland is a nice piece but ya I doing view him as a foundation piece. He’s not keeping me from getting another foundation piece though if he was the speed bump in acquiring one.

So ya every move going forward should be viewed as, “how does this player work with Mobley”. One thing that is great with Mobley though is just how easy he is to build around.

But ya no shot at Cleveland haha, but if there seems to be a front office that can screw this up, Cleveland’s is right up there with about 4-5 front offices I just don’t trust.
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#7 » by DickGrayson » Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:37 pm

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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#8 » by bbms » Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:17 pm

I wasn't expecting Giddey to come out so poised, confident, and so ready to dissect NBA defenses.

Top-level PnR defenders will still be able to bother him as long as he doesn't have a pull-up shot, but he's much better at running the show than I anticipated.
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#9 » by SaiCLE » Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:22 pm

yoyoboy wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:Just hope he doesn’t have his first 5-7 years wasted on an incompetent team.

You and me both. Altman completely lucked his way into Mobley after one incompetent decision followed by the next. There’s no doubt in my mind he would’ve picked Green if we were number two, despite our influx of guards. At this point, this franchise needs to start making every decision with Evan as the main consideration, and if that involves trading everyone else on the team then so be it. I still like Garland a lot, but Mobley is the clear building block and the only guy on the roster I’m truly confident will be an All Star with time. Trading for Lauri and then immediately extending him was already a horrendous decision, so I don’t have much hope we’ll put a good team around Mobley any time soon unfortunately.

I disagree. Lauri was a good signing for the Cavs since they lacked any type of 3pt shooting. Once we get a wing he’ll move to the bench. Is the roster weird? Yes but it’s unfair to judge Koby since our luck in the lottery been terrible. Garland is showing impact on the cavs and the numbers show it. Okoro isn’t a numbers guy but his defense been good.
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#10 » by SaiCLE » Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:27 pm

Also I wish scoring wasn’t the only thing people look at when looking at rookies. Mobley is damn impactful on the court. His offense needs work but he can still score when called upon. Cavs are using Mobley as a free safety in the 2-2-1 zone. Placing him on top of the key. Curious to see how he deals with both LA teams this week.
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#11 » by clyde21 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:57 am

the space Mobes eats on defense is ridiculous, that combo of mobility, length and bball IQ is just stupid, add in the passing and eventually 20ppg scoring and the guy is an MVP in the making.

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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#12 » by Pipp33 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:37 am

bbms wrote:I wasn't expecting Giddey to come out so poised, confident, and so ready to dissect NBA defenses.

Top-level PnR defenders will still be able to bother him as long as he doesn't have a pull-up shot, but he's much better at running the show than I anticipated.


Those of us in Australia who have paid attention to our Youth state squads and also the NBL have been waiting for this day. He's on his way to becoming a fantastic NBA player. Today's game was another step and he'd be averaging well over 6APG if his teammatyes could finish their open shots at a higher clip.

Big things ahead for this young man, and he's just turned 19
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#13 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:53 am

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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#14 » by God Squad » Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:15 am

Why didn't anyone tell me Scotties offense wasn't broken? This is not the same player I was looking at pre draft, who is this man? NOBODY would have thought Scottie could average 18 per game. We knew about the defense/passing but his scoring has been a revelation.

I don't know what his final form is, but it's not Draymond Green.
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#15 » by CptCrunch » Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:17 pm

Mobley is DPOY straight up. Better than Embiid and Gobert on defense.

Pistons and Rockets both screwed up big.

Barnes is great, but he isn't on the same stratosphere as Mobley right now.
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#16 » by QingJames » Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:35 pm

CptCrunch wrote:Mobley is DPOY straight up. Better than Embiid and Gobert on defense.

Pistons and Rockets both screwed up big.

Barnes is great, but he isn't on the same stratosphere as Mobley right now.

It’s a little too much to say he’s not in the same stratosphere. Mobley has definitely been better on the whole and is a defensive savant - Scottie doesn’t really come close to him on that end right now. But offensively, Scottie has been a revelation and has been much better than any of the other draft picks on that end when you account for all he’s doing (i.e. not just scoring like Duarte).
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#17 » by CptCrunch » Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:16 pm

QingJames wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:Mobley is DPOY straight up. Better than Embiid and Gobert on defense.

Pistons and Rockets both screwed up big.

Barnes is great, but he isn't on the same stratosphere as Mobley right now.

It’s a little too much to say he’s not in the same stratosphere. Mobley has definitely been better on the whole and is a defensive savant - Scottie doesn’t really come close to him on that end right now. But offensively, Scottie has been a revelation and has been much better than any of the other draft picks on that end when you account for all he’s doing (i.e. not just scoring like Duarte).


Look you are Raptors fan and you love your rookie. Barnes has been great, but Mobley has been great in an entirely different way.

There is a level of good play that makes you a future all-star and there is a level of impact on the game that makes you a greatest of all times player (on defense at least).

Over the past few drafts, we have seen great rookies like Barnes every single year. 17/8/2, albeit on slightly hot, probably unsustainable, shooting is amazing, but we see this kind of impact every single year. Assuming he does this for a season, this is typically trajectory for a low-tier franchise player at worst.

Mobley has shown that level of impact on defense that we haven't seen in years, possibly over a decade. He is the most mature defender I've ever seen and I would argue challenges the best in the league in impact on defense. Barnes for how good he has been can't make the same claim as challenging the best SF/PF in the league in terms of impact.
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#18 » by clyde21 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:23 pm

QingJames wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:Mobley is DPOY straight up. Better than Embiid and Gobert on defense.

Pistons and Rockets both screwed up big.

Barnes is great, but he isn't on the same stratosphere as Mobley right now.

It’s a little too much to say he’s not in the same stratosphere. Mobley has definitely been better on the whole and is a defensive savant - Scottie doesn’t really come close to him on that end right now. But offensively, Scottie has been a revelation and has been much better than any of the other draft picks on that end when you account for all he’s doing (i.e. not just scoring like Duarte).


Barnes has gone thru some serious development offensively since Florida St., I never thought his shot was as bad as people were claiming it is but clearly he looks way more comfortable shooting/scoring and the ball skills are improving @ rapid pace

i mean, if this trend continues and Scottie becomes a legitimate scoring threat on top of what he's gonna give u in terms of defense and playmaking, it's a done deal.
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#19 » by QingJames » Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:44 pm

CptCrunch wrote:
QingJames wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:Mobley is DPOY straight up. Better than Embiid and Gobert on defense.

Pistons and Rockets both screwed up big.

Barnes is great, but he isn't on the same stratosphere as Mobley right now.

It’s a little too much to say he’s not in the same stratosphere. Mobley has definitely been better on the whole and is a defensive savant - Scottie doesn’t really come close to him on that end right now. But offensively, Scottie has been a revelation and has been much better than any of the other draft picks on that end when you account for all he’s doing (i.e. not just scoring like Duarte).


Look you are Raptors fan and you love your rookie. Barnes has been great, but Mobley has been great in an entirely different way.

There is a level of good play that makes you a future all-star and there is a level of impact on the game that makes you a greatest of all times player (on defense at least).


Let's not get carried away. Mobley has been great but saying he has a GOAT defensive level of impact is a little much, don't you think? He may one day become that but come on now.

CptCrunch wrote:Over the past few drafts, we have seen great rookies like Barnes every single year. 17/8/2, albeit on slightly hot, probably unsustainable, shooting is amazing, but we see this kind of impact every single year. Assuming he does this for a season, this is typically trajectory for a low-tier franchise player at worst.


Confirmed for not having watched Barnes play. His offense is not predicated whatsoever on hot shooting - his shooting has been the least impressive aspect of his offensive impact. It's his playmaking, his already-elite reading of the defense, and his scoring in the flow of the game which makes him great. His recognition of when he has space to drive (coupled with a good handle) is what impresses me most. His touch around the rim is also very good so far.

CptCrunch wrote:Mobley has shown that level of impact on defense that we haven't seen in years, possibly over a decade. He is the most mature defender I've ever seen and I would argue challenges the best in the league in impact on defense. Barnes for how good he has been can't make the same claim as challenging the best SF/PF in the league in terms of impact.


It's a hard argument to make one way or the other. Mobley has been great defensively but if you told me to choose him or Giannis for a single defensive possession, I'm obviously taken the proven commodity. I view Barnes the same way, even though I would argue he's already demonstrating more offensive impact than the majority of SF/PFs in the league, including his fellow wings in Anunoby and Siakam.
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#20 » by CptCrunch » Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:45 pm

QingJames wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:
QingJames wrote:It’s a little too much to say he’s not in the same stratosphere. Mobley has definitely been better on the whole and is a defensive savant - Scottie doesn’t really come close to him on that end right now. But offensively, Scottie has been a revelation and has been much better than any of the other draft picks on that end when you account for all he’s doing (i.e. not just scoring like Duarte).


Look you are Raptors fan and you love your rookie. Barnes has been great, but Mobley has been great in an entirely different way.

There is a level of good play that makes you a future all-star and there is a level of impact on the game that makes you a greatest of all times player (on defense at least).


Let's not get carried away. Mobley has been great but saying he has a GOAT defensive level of impact is a little much, don't you think? He may one day become that but come on now.

CptCrunch wrote:Over the past few drafts, we have seen great rookies like Barnes every single year. 17/8/2, albeit on slightly hot, probably unsustainable, shooting is amazing, but we see this kind of impact every single year. Assuming he does this for a season, this is typically trajectory for a low-tier franchise player at worst.


Confirmed for not having watched Barnes play. His offense is not predicated whatsoever on hot shooting - his shooting has been the least impressive aspect of his offensive impact. It's his playmaking, his already-elite reading of the defense, and his scoring in the flow of the game which makes him great. His recognition of when he has space to drive (coupled with a good handle) is what impresses me most. His touch around the rim is also very good so far.

CptCrunch wrote:Mobley has shown that level of impact on defense that we haven't seen in years, possibly over a decade. He is the most mature defender I've ever seen and I would argue challenges the best in the league in impact on defense. Barnes for how good he has been can't make the same claim as challenging the best SF/PF in the league in terms of impact.


It's a hard argument to make one way or the other. Mobley has been great defensively but if you told me to choose him or Giannis for a single defensive possession, I'm obviously taken the proven commodity. I view Barnes the same way, even though I would argue he's already demonstrating more offensive impact than the majority of SF/PFs in the league, including his fellow wings in Anunoby and Siakam.


Just a little note, shooting in analytics terms = hitting shots, not necessarily jump shots. Your bias is not letting you see the big picture that is understandable talking about a rookie from your own team.

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