2021 Rookie Thread

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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#21 » by QingJames » Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:49 pm

CptCrunch wrote:
QingJames wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:
Look you are Raptors fan and you love your rookie. Barnes has been great, but Mobley has been great in an entirely different way.

There is a level of good play that makes you a future all-star and there is a level of impact on the game that makes you a greatest of all times player (on defense at least).


Let's not get carried away. Mobley has been great but saying he has a GOAT defensive level of impact is a little much, don't you think? He may one day become that but come on now.

CptCrunch wrote:Over the past few drafts, we have seen great rookies like Barnes every single year. 17/8/2, albeit on slightly hot, probably unsustainable, shooting is amazing, but we see this kind of impact every single year. Assuming he does this for a season, this is typically trajectory for a low-tier franchise player at worst.


Confirmed for not having watched Barnes play. His offense is not predicated whatsoever on hot shooting - his shooting has been the least impressive aspect of his offensive impact. It's his playmaking, his already-elite reading of the defense, and his scoring in the flow of the game which makes him great. His recognition of when he has space to drive (coupled with a good handle) is what impresses me most. His touch around the rim is also very good so far.

CptCrunch wrote:Mobley has shown that level of impact on defense that we haven't seen in years, possibly over a decade. He is the most mature defender I've ever seen and I would argue challenges the best in the league in impact on defense. Barnes for how good he has been can't make the same claim as challenging the best SF/PF in the league in terms of impact.


It's a hard argument to make one way or the other. Mobley has been great defensively but if you told me to choose him or Giannis for a single defensive possession, I'm obviously taken the proven commodity. I view Barnes the same way, even though I would argue he's already demonstrating more offensive impact than the majority of SF/PFs in the league, including his fellow wings in Anunoby and Siakam.


Just a little note, shooting in analytics terms = hitting shots, not necessarily jump shots. Your bias is not letting you see the big picture that is understandable talking about a rookie from your own team.


Okay? I don't know if you're intentionally trying to come across as dismissive because you're talking to another annoying Raptors fan archetype, but as I said, it's kind of clear you haven't been watching Barnes so far. His scoring/shooting is still the least impressive aspect of his offensive game. It seems to me you're the one missing the bigger picture by boiling Scottie's performance thus far down to allegedly unsustainable hot shooting.
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#22 » by CptCrunch » Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:54 pm

QingJames wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:
QingJames wrote:
Let's not get carried away. Mobley has been great but saying he has a GOAT defensive level of impact is a little much, don't you think? He may one day become that but come on now.



Confirmed for not having watched Barnes play. His offense is not predicated whatsoever on hot shooting - his shooting has been the least impressive aspect of his offensive impact. It's his playmaking, his already-elite reading of the defense, and his scoring in the flow of the game which makes him great. His recognition of when he has space to drive (coupled with a good handle) is what impresses me most. His touch around the rim is also very good so far.



It's a hard argument to make one way or the other. Mobley has been great defensively but if you told me to choose him or Giannis for a single defensive possession, I'm obviously taken the proven commodity. I view Barnes the same way, even though I would argue he's already demonstrating more offensive impact than the majority of SF/PFs in the league, including his fellow wings in Anunoby and Siakam.


Just a little note, shooting in analytics terms = hitting shots, not necessarily jump shots. Your bias is not letting you see the big picture that is understandable talking about a rookie from your own team.


Okay? I don't know if you're intentionally trying to come across as dismissive because you're talking to another annoying Raptors fan archetype, but as I said, it's kind of clear you haven't been watching Barnes so far. His scoring/shooting is still the least impressive aspect of his offensive game. It seems to me you're the one missing the bigger picture by boiling Scottie's performance thus far down to allegedly unsustainable hot shooting.


What issue do you have with my characterization that Barnes' play if sustained is on a trajectory to franchise player? You want me to call him a future MVP or something? Let me just summarize, Barnes is as good as a rookie can get period. Full stop.

Mobley is just showing something generational, transcendental, once in 20 year. It is not brave calling these shots once every is on board with these narratives. Except I've been making these claims about Mobley way before the draft and calling out Cade/Green for being bad prospects. For posteriority sake, I had Barnes as my #2 or #3 prospect.
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#23 » by sisibilio » Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:01 pm

Mobley is looking like a absolute stud that's for sure. He's not only a freak physically but also has duncanesque IQ and demeanor.
If you want to try to measure the elements of basketball that are supposedly unmeasurable, spend a game just watching Marc Gasol.
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#24 » by QingJames » Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:06 pm

CptCrunch wrote:
QingJames wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:
Just a little note, shooting in analytics terms = hitting shots, not necessarily jump shots. Your bias is not letting you see the big picture that is understandable talking about a rookie from your own team.


Okay? I don't know if you're intentionally trying to come across as dismissive because you're talking to another annoying Raptors fan archetype, but as I said, it's kind of clear you haven't been watching Barnes so far. His scoring/shooting is still the least impressive aspect of his offensive game. It seems to me you're the one missing the bigger picture by boiling Scottie's performance thus far down to allegedly unsustainable hot shooting.


What issue do you have with my characterization that Barnes' play if sustained is on a trajectory to franchise player? You want me to call him a future MVP or something? Let me just summarize, Barnes is as good as a rookie can get period. Full stop.

Mobley is just showing something generational, transcendental, once in 20 year. It is not brave calling these shots once every is on board with these narratives. Except I've been making these claims about Mobley way before the draft and calling out Cade/Green for being bad prospects. For posteriority sake, I had Barnes as my #2 or #3 prospect.

I guess it’s the hyperbole of saying Barnes isn’t in the same “stratosphere” as Mobley that I take issue with when it seemed like you had a misunderstanding of precisely how Barnes has been making his impact on offense by boiling it down to hot shooting. Also that Mobley is already exhibiting a GOAT level defensive impact - I think that’s hyperbolic as well.

Like I said, Mobley has been better because of his otherworldly defense. But I don’t accept that he’s already on some untouchable and unreachable plane from the rest of the rookies.
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#25 » by CptCrunch » Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:17 pm

QingJames wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:
QingJames wrote:
Okay? I don't know if you're intentionally trying to come across as dismissive because you're talking to another annoying Raptors fan archetype, but as I said, it's kind of clear you haven't been watching Barnes so far. His scoring/shooting is still the least impressive aspect of his offensive game. It seems to me you're the one missing the bigger picture by boiling Scottie's performance thus far down to allegedly unsustainable hot shooting.


What issue do you have with my characterization that Barnes' play if sustained is on a trajectory to franchise player? You want me to call him a future MVP or something? Let me just summarize, Barnes is as good as a rookie can get period. Full stop.

Mobley is just showing something generational, transcendental, once in 20 year. It is not brave calling these shots once every is on board with these narratives. Except I've been making these claims about Mobley way before the draft and calling out Cade/Green for being bad prospects. For posteriority sake, I had Barnes as my #2 or #3 prospect.

I guess it’s the hyperbole of saying Barnes isn’t in the same “stratosphere” as Mobley that I take issue with when it seemed like you had a misunderstanding of precisely how Barnes has been making his impact on offense by boiling it down to hot shooting. Also that Mobley is already exhibiting a GOAT level defensive impact - I think that’s hyperbolic as well.

Like I said, Mobley has been better because of his otherworldly defense. But I don’t accept that he’s already on some untouchable and unreachable plane from the rest of the rookies.


Not currently, they might be close but in my opinion their trajectory are very different (or I would say stratospheric in difference) . You can find 5-10 players who can mimic Barnes or are better than him at everything he does right now.

There is maybe one player (Embiid) in the league who can impact defense like Mobley. This is a 5th game, 20 year old rookie PF/C we are talking about. Rookie bigs are almost always lost on defense in the league at least the first season or two. Most don't even become productive defensive players until mid-career.

Mobley hasn't learned the NBA schemes, studied NBA film, gotten NBA vet respect from the refs, worked on his body/conditioning. Give him a year or two, I fail to see how he isn't DPOY by then.
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#26 » by bbms » Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:05 pm

I wonder how Mobley's success can affect Chet Holmgren's draft stock.
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#27 » by clyde21 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:15 pm

bbms wrote:I wonder how Mobley's success can affect Chet Holmgren's draft stock.


why would it? they are not really all that similar as players.
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#28 » by clyde21 » Sat Oct 30, 2021 4:40 pm

Mobley rockin a +17 Net Rating with a +9.2 On/Off right now, pretty absurd to expect him to hold this the rest of his rookie yr but he's been stupid good
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#29 » by clyde21 » Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:16 pm

early ROTY rankings

Evan Mobley
Scottie Barnes

Chris Duarte
Josh Giddey
Franz Wagner
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#30 » by Marcus » Mon Nov 1, 2021 5:41 pm

clyde21 wrote:Mobley rockin a +17 Net Rating with a +9.2 On/Off right now, pretty absurd to expect him to hold this the rest of his rookie yr but he's been stupid good


You keep baiting me into losing my humble. but i won't do it Clyde. I WON'T DO IT!!! No matter how much of Mobes niceness you post (please continue to do so btw) I won't give in!!!!
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#31 » by Marcus » Wed Nov 3, 2021 5:51 pm

Warriors sent Minga to the G-League.

Thoughts?
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#32 » by clyde21 » Thu Nov 4, 2021 2:19 am

real footage of a rook shutting Dame fkn Lillard down in ISO

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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#33 » by Marcus » Fri Nov 5, 2021 3:51 pm

clyde21 wrote:real footage of a rook shutting Dame fkn Lillard down in ISO

Read on Twitter


Duncan was "The Big Fundamentals"

I want so badly to call Mobes "The Clinic" but it's 2021 and i don't know how that comes across with the climate today.
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#34 » by Roger Murdock » Fri Nov 5, 2021 4:21 pm

Mobley and Barnes seem like absolute locks for all rookie 1st team

This is going to be a very competitive class. I think some guys will get bumped from the second team that would normally never.

What’s everyone’s guess at all rookie teams for end of year?

Mine is:

1st team
Mobley
Barnes
Green
Duarte
Giddey

2nd team
Cunningham
Wagner
Suggs
Mitchell
Sengun
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#35 » by clyde21 » Sat Nov 6, 2021 1:46 am

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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#36 » by NRSV » Sat Nov 6, 2021 1:56 am

Mobley is the next step in basketball evolution.
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#37 » by clyde21 » Mon Nov 8, 2021 12:45 am

lol wut

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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#38 » by CptCrunch » Mon Nov 8, 2021 2:22 am

Image

I'll just put this here. At the rate this gap is growing, Mobley can and should win DPOY.
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#39 » by yoyoboy » Mon Nov 8, 2021 3:09 am

Credit to all the Mobley boys from pre-draft. We knew what we were seeing. 8-)
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Re: 2021 Rookie Thread 

Post#40 » by DCasey91 » Mon Nov 8, 2021 3:33 am

I feel dirty for putting Green in tier one best in class with Mobley lol (The only 2 I thought had it). I’m so disappointed in him while on the otherhand Mobley has exceeded my high expectations, weird feeling but Mobley makes basketball so enjoyable. He’ll be a superstar and is an All Star in my eyes right now.

Top 3 center at minimum (>Gobert) and my bet is he’ll be better than Embiid (injury, +naunce).

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