GG Jackson Thread

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Re: GG Jackson Thread 

Post#161 » by Catchall » Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:49 am

Duke4life831 wrote:Just catching up on this game right now. So I take the GG South Carolina thing is going to come to an end within the next week or so. Both sides look completely done with each other. I honestly dont think GG wants to be there and Paris doesnt want him on his team.


The situation might be at a breaking point. From what I've seen, GG can't get open looks unless he pulls up from 24 feet or shoots a turnaround from mid-range. Defenders are sagging off guys and clogging the paint. Only a couple other guys on that roster are worth guarding. SC was down 13-2 by the time GG checked in and got a touch in the 1st half. His team can't score the ball, and GG started forcing shots.

Any player that's competitive would be losing his mind on that SC team, imo. You can't build a culture around being down 20 at halftime every other game and act like that's business as usual.
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Re: GG Jackson Thread 

Post#162 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Feb 15, 2023 4:02 am

Catchall wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:Just catching up on this game right now. So I take the GG South Carolina thing is going to come to an end within the next week or so. Both sides look completely done with each other. I honestly dont think GG wants to be there and Paris doesnt want him on his team.


The situation might be at a breaking point. From what I've seen, GG can't get open looks unless he pulls up from 24 feet or shoots a turnaround from mid-range. Defenders are sagging off guys and clogging the paint. Only a couple other guys on that roster are worth guarding. SC was down 13-2 by the time GG checked in and got a touch in the 1st half. His team can't score the ball, and GG started forcing shots.

Any player that's competitive would be losing his mind on that SC team, imo. You can't build a culture around being down 20 at halftime every other game and act like that's business as usual.


My thing with all of this is, GG knew about the team situation coming in. Everyone knew South Carolina was straight up garbage when he decided to go there late. So he has no one to blame but himself. And I will also add, when he does play, most of the time he isnt making South Carolina any better. He has been atroucious all SEC play. And ya I totally get he is on a garbage team, Fultz was on a garbage team and didnt look this bad, Edwards was on a garbage team and didnt look this bad. And on top of all of this, GG is now throwing public fits. Again to be clear, I 100% agree this SC team is garbage.

I just dont have much sympathy for him because he chose SC knowing they were garbage and knowing this was a real possible outcome.
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Re: GG Jackson Thread 

Post#163 » by Catchall » Wed Feb 15, 2023 4:04 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
Catchall wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:Just catching up on this game right now. So I take the GG South Carolina thing is going to come to an end within the next week or so. Both sides look completely done with each other. I honestly dont think GG wants to be there and Paris doesnt want him on his team.


The situation might be at a breaking point. From what I've seen, GG can't get open looks unless he pulls up from 24 feet or shoots a turnaround from mid-range. Defenders are sagging off guys and clogging the paint. Only a couple other guys on that roster are worth guarding. SC was down 13-2 by the time GG checked in and got a touch in the 1st half. His team can't score the ball, and GG started forcing shots.

Any player that's competitive would be losing his mind on that SC team, imo. You can't build a culture around being down 20 at halftime every other game and act like that's business as usual.


My thing with all of this is, GG knew about the team situation coming in. Everyone knew South Carolina was straight up garbage when he decided to go there late. So he has no one to blame but himself. And I will also add, when he does play, most of the time he isnt making South Carolina any better. He has been atroucious all SEC play. And ya I totally get he is on a garbage team, Fultz was on a garbage team and didnt look this bad, Edwards was on a garbage team and didnt look this bad. And on top of all of this, GG is now throwing public fits. Again to be clear, I 100% agree this SC team is garbage.

I just dont have much sympathy for him because he chose SC knowing they were garbage and knowing this was a real possible outcome.


He might have been offered NIL money as a local kid, and that may have affected his decision. I don't know the details.
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Re: GG Jackson Thread 

Post#164 » by Catchall » Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:35 pm

South Carolina found a team in the SEC that's worse than they are, beating LSU today. GG was back in the starting lineup and finished with 20/8 and an assist. He shot 4/10 on 3PAs and 6/6 on FTAs (his best game at the foul line). He was inefficient inside the arc though with 1/7 on 2pt FGAs. I have to go through the tape to see what kind of shots he was taking.

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Re: GG Jackson Thread 

Post#165 » by Catchall » Fri Feb 24, 2023 1:37 am

GG played well in the 1st half against Alabama last night, then showed maturity issues and bad defensive lapses in the 2nd half. Physical tools are good, but his immaturity/attitude and need to learn the game better fundamentally could render him more of a developmental project. I'm not sure jumping up a draftclass was a good decision for him.

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Re: GG Jackson Thread 

Post#166 » by CptCrunch » Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:17 am

GG Jackson is TWO years younger than Brandon Miller. Junior year GG Jackson is likely to completely demolish SEC if he was as old as Brandon Miller.
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Re: GG Jackson Thread 

Post#167 » by The-Power » Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:35 am

CptCrunch wrote:GG Jackson is TWO years younger than Brandon Miller. Junior year GG Jackson is likely to completely demolish SEC if he was as old as Brandon Miller.

Why? Is he going to turn into an elite shooter? Is he going to transform into a different kind of athlete? Is he going to transform his feel for the game? Development is not linear. There are countless players that don't improve dramatically over the course of their college careers. Players usually get better, sure, but it's not a foregone conclusions by any stretch that they make huge leaps. Jackson may or may not improve dramatically – but that's nothing to bank on. A lot of players only develop on the margins but do not fundamentally evolve.

Also, age is not the only thing that matters and I can't believe this has to be spelled out over and over again. If Jackson were in college for his Junior year, he'd still have two more years of experience at this level. You do not only, or even primarily, develop over time but with the competition you face on the regular. A 20-year old Junior is vastly different from a 20-year old Freshman in terms of development status.
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Re: GG Jackson Thread 

Post#168 » by Catchall » Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:45 am

The-Power wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:GG Jackson is TWO years younger than Brandon Miller. Junior year GG Jackson is likely to completely demolish SEC if he was as old as Brandon Miller.

Why? Is he going to turn into an elite shooter? Is he going to transform into a different kind of athlete? Is he going to transform his feel for the game? Development is not linear. There are countless players that don't improve dramatically over the course of their college careers. Players usually get better, sure, but it's not a foregone conclusions by any stretch that they make huge leaps. Jackson may or may not improve dramatically – but that's nothing to bank on. A lot of players only develop on the margins but do not fundamentally evolve.

Also, age is not the only thing that matters and I can't believe this has to be spelled out over and over again. If Jackson were in college for his Junior year, he'd still have two more years of experience at this level. You do not only, or even primarily, develop over time but with the competition you face on the regular. A 20-year old Junior is vastly different from a 20-year old Freshman in terms of development status.


I will say that if you put GG on that Alabama team and Brandon Miller on South Carolina, GG might have been the one with the 40-pt night. The SC team simply doesn't have high-level defenders and doesn't have credible floor spacers. Meanwhile, Alabama has multiple NBA-sized athletes defending and a nicely-spaced floor on offense.
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Re: GG Jackson Thread 

Post#169 » by The-Power » Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:54 am

Catchall wrote:I will say that if you put GG on that Alabama team and Brandon Miller on South Carolina, GG might have been the one with the 40-pt night. The SC team simply doesn't have high-level defenders and doesn't have credible floor spacers. Meanwhile, Alabama has multiple NBA-sized athletes defending and a nicely-spaced floor on offense.

Yeah, no. There's nothing indicating that Jackson has the skills at this point to confidently assume he can put up an efficient 40 points any given night. It's also odd to claim that now because in that game, Jackson had more support than Miller as evidenced by the fact that Miller had an efficient 41 points whereas Jackson had an inefficient 19 points and yet Alabama only barely won in overtime.
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Re: GG Jackson Thread 

Post#170 » by Catchall » Fri Feb 24, 2023 3:18 am

The-Power wrote:
Catchall wrote:I will say that if you put GG on that Alabama team and Brandon Miller on South Carolina, GG might have been the one with the 40-pt night. The SC team simply doesn't have high-level defenders and doesn't have credible floor spacers. Meanwhile, Alabama has multiple NBA-sized athletes defending and a nicely-spaced floor on offense.

Yeah, no. There's nothing indicating that Jackson has the skills at this point to confidently assume he can put up an efficient 40 points any given night. It's also odd to claim that now because in that game, Jackson had more support than Miller as evidenced by the fact that Miller had an efficient 41 points whereas Jackson had an inefficient 19 points and yet Alabama only barely won in overtime.


Disagree. Miller had open looks and open lanes all night. GG had to beat guys off the dribble and had about 2 buckets assisted. Did you even watch the game?
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Re: GG Jackson Thread 

Post#171 » by The-Power » Fri Feb 24, 2023 3:32 am

Catchall wrote:Disagree. Miller had open looks and open lanes all night. GG had to beat guys off the dribble and had about 2 buckets assisted. Did you even watch the game?

Thanks for the passive-aggressive answer. Yes, I did. And I find it utterly insane to claim that a guy who scored an inefficient 19 points could have scored an efficient 41 points, like his counterpart, if they just switched positions even though Jackson had indeed more offensive help in this particular game. It just doesn't make sense. Especially when you consider Jackson's history of not being able to do anything remotely resembling Miller's performance last night even when he was playing against crappy teams.

But even then, all I've heard is ‘but he's on a bad team!’ as if that excuses all of his struggles. Now we also deal in ridiculous hypotheticals (‘he could have easily have one of the greatest performances of the year instead of the rather poor one he actually had if only he was on the other team’), and of course him being young means that he'll 100% be a completely transformed player in a year or two as if all the historical examples to the contrary have no chance of applying to him. I'd rather deal with reality and what we see on the court but to each their own. Feel free to fantasize of what could have been in an alternate reality while cheekily asking the other person whether they actually watched the actual game (quite ironic, isn't it?).

edit: Also, on the scoring. Let's be clear about a couple things. Miller gets got looks in no small part because he knows how to move off the ball and knows how to use his gravity. Jackson, on the other hand, loves to stop the ball and try to create tough shots off the dribble. This is not an indictment of Miller, it's an indictment of Jackson. It's not back or good luck with teammates, it's a feature of their respective games. Miller has a skill and mentality that is a great help in the NBA, that's a positive. Bottom line: Miller has better shot quality largely because he knows how to create better shots. Also, Jackson guarded Miller a lot. If Miller had open lanes and shots all night (and Jackson didn't), it's also an indictment on Jackson's defense. Where's that criticism? It's really not the positive argument for Jackson you're trying to make it out to be.
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Re: GG Jackson Thread 

Post#172 » by azcatz11 » Fri Feb 24, 2023 3:33 am

Isn’t their a problem when the first thing everything says positive about the kid is that “he’s a year younger”

That’s his single biggest attribute rn
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Re: GG Jackson Thread 

Post#173 » by The-Power » Fri Feb 24, 2023 5:32 am

Since we are having the discussion about assumed improvement over time and Jackson's performances to date, I thought it might be interesting to see A) how highly ranked players with subpar performances who left college after their first year have fared in the NBA, and b) how highly ranked players who stayed in college for more than one year have done in their following seasons.

I use BPM as a metric which is modeled to assess impact through the boxscore. It obviously has flaws but it's a solid starting point. Thus far this season, Jackson has a BPM of 0.0.

A) Top 15 Players based on RSCI, Declared for the Draft after 1st Year, BPM < 5.0, Entered between 2015 and 2020

Spoiler:
2015

Skal Labissiere (#2): 2.6 BPM – Out of NBA
Cheick Diallo (#4): 3.7 BPM – Out of NBA
Henry Ellenson (#9): 3.9 BPM – Out of NBA
Stephen Zimmerman (#10): 1.4 BPM – Out of NBA

2016

Harry Giles (#2): 4.4 BPM – Out of NBA

2017

Trevon Duval (#5): 3.2 BPM – Out of NBA
Brandon McCoy (#11): 2.9 BPM – Out of NBA
Troy Brown (#12): 3.7 BPM – NBA Rotation

2018

Cam Reddish (#2): 4.5 BPM – NBA Rotation
Simosola Shittu (#10): -0.3 BPM – Out of NBA

2019

Jaden McDaniels (#7): 2.6 BPM – NBA Starter
Tyrese Maxey (#10): 4.4 BPM – NBA Starter
Kahlil Whitney (#11): -2.0 BPM – Out of NBA

2020

Brandon Boston Jr. (#4): 3.1 BPM – Fringe NBA
Ziaire Williams (#6): 0.3 BPM – NBA Rotation
Greg Brown (#8): 2.5 BPM – Fringe NBA
Josh Christopher (#10): 4.2 BPM – Fringe NBA

Out of 17 players, only 2 have so far ended up being starting-level NBA players. 3 players can be declared NBA rotation players, and an additional 3 can be declared fringe rotation players. Some of them may end up being starters or out of the league down the road as it's still early in their careers for most of them. All of them with the exception of Ziaire Williams had a BPM of at least 2.5 and therefore considerably higher than Jackson's 0.0. 9 players are already out of the NBA, including 9 out of 11 players who entered college between 2015 and 2018 and declared after one year.

B) Top 20 Recruits (based on ESPN Ranking), Played Multiple Seasons in College, Entered between 2018 and 2021

Spoiler:
2018

Quentin Grimes (#8)
BPM (2019): 1.8
BPM (2020): 4.4
BPM (2021): 10.8
Switched from Big 12 to AAC after his first year.

Jalen Smith (#10)
BPM (2019): 7.0
BPM (2020): 12.0

E.J. Montgomery (#14)
BPM (2019): 4.8
BPM (2020): 3.9

Tre Jones (#17)
BPM (2019): 6.5
BPM (2020): 8.2

Charles Bassey (#18)
BPM (2019): 5.2
BPM (2020): 4.2
BPM (2021): 9.1

Ashton Hagans (#20)
BPM (2019): 6.0
BPM (2020): 4.7

2019

Scottie Lewis (#10)
BPM (2020): 6.6
BPM (2021): 5.8

Matthew Hurt (#11)
BPM (2020): 7.8
BPM (2021): 9.9

Jeremiah Robinson-Earl (#14)
BPM (2020): 5.3
BPM (2021): 7.6

Bryan Antoine (#15)
BPM (2020): -3.8
BPM (2021): 6.1
BPM (2022): -0.7
Very limited minutes in all years, barely a rotation player in any year.

Isaiah Mobley (#16)
BPM (2020): 2.9
BPM (2021): 6.7
BPM (2022): 7.9

Armando Bacot (#18)
BPM (2020): 3.7
BPM (2021): 9.8
BPM (2022): 8.9
BPM (2023): 7.2

Trendon Watford (#19)
BPM (2020): 3.5
BPM (2021): 5.1

2020

Walker Kessler (#14)
BPM (2021): 10.9
BPM (2022): 14.1
Switched from ACC to SEC.

Caleb Love (#18)
BPM (2021): -0.3
BPM (2022): 3.4
BPM (2023): 3.1

Jeremy Roach (#19)
BPM (2021): 0.1
BPM (2022): 1.3
BPM (2023): 1.9

2021

Emoni Bates (#3)
BPM (2022): -0.4
BPM (2023): 0.0
Switched from AAC to MAC.

Nathan Bittle (#11)
BPM (2022): 3.1
BPM (2023): 5.5

Hunter Sallis (#16)
BPM (2022): 4.1
BPM (2023): 4.1

Daimion Collins (#19)
BPM (2022): 4.1
BPM (2023): -4.9
Limited minutes in both years.

Efton Reid (#20)
BPM (2022): 0.8
BPM (2023): -9.5
Swtiched from SEC to WCC, limited minutes this year.

It becomes very clear that improvement is not linear. In fact, many players hardly improve at all or even regress over time in terms of BPM, and those who improved usually did not have drastic jumps (if we take Miller: Jackson's BPM would have to jump 13.2 points (7.7 just for offense) to reach Miller's current BPM and nobody in that sample had a jump even remotely that big). The only (!) player out of 21 who genuinely struggled in his Freshman season, made steady progress and turned out to have a great college season later on – and is on track for a very solid NBA career – is Grimes (who switched the team and conference). Obviously we can look further back in time but I think it serves as a first illustration.

I realize that Jackson is younger than most Freshman but that alone cannot be an argument when there's so little historical precedent of someone seriously struggling in their Freshman season and then blowing up in the NBA (or even in college) later on. And even if we find more precedent once we look further back, the idea that his development is likely to be linear and drastic (as some seem to just assume) is just not borne out by history. So the argument needs to be a lot more elaborated than ‘he's so young, just wait and he'll turn into an elite player’ to convince me. If Jackson continues to have this kind of season and ends up being an NBA star down the road, that might truly be unprecedented in NBA history (or very close to it).
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Re: GG Jackson Thread 

Post#174 » by Catchall » Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:43 pm

azcatz11 wrote:Isn’t their a problem when the first thing everything says positive about the kid is that “he’s a year younger”

That’s his single biggest attribute rn


Here's what I like about GG: Combination of size + athleticism + handle + body control + shooting touch. It's the right package to be a primary offensive player if he develops well. If he can grow into a legit 6'9" / 225 lbs with a 6'11" or 7' wingspan, then he'd have the physical profile of a player like Chimezie Metu, while his skills would enable him to dominate in certain matchups.

That said, he needs two years to develop. He's younger than Amare Stoudemire was coming into the league out of high school. Depending on how bad his maturity issues are, however, that adds risk.

The fact that SC doesn't have shooters who can space the floor, or guards who can often get him an open look, forces GG to create a lot of tough shots for himself. That's what's hurting his efficiency. When he gets reasonable, open shots in rhythm, his efficiency is much better.

I'd also argue that his floor isn't actually that low. Even within his first 2 years, he should be able to play a Jeff Green-type rotational role and have a positive impact.
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Re: GG Jackson Thread 

Post#175 » by clyde21 » Fri Feb 24, 2023 10:34 pm

still feels like he's being underrated despite all the inefficiency

we're still talking about the youngest cat in the entire draft averaging 30/12 per 100 possession in a tough conference on a bad team, with an NBA physical profile and an easy to project two-way and scoring toolset.

Kuminga, a similar archetype player with similar strengths/flaws coming out went 7th overall in a strong class, and GG's a better prospect IMO. these guys just don't come along too often, you'll barely get 1 in each class, if that.

it all comes down to when you are willing to make the bet. some people are more risk averse than others. for me I am comfortable making that bet in the top10 fully knowing he has a higher bust probability than other guys in the same range.

i wouldn't be able to live with myself if he hits his potential and I pass on him because I thought a 3/D guy was a safer proposition. that's just the game you have to play as a GM. if you hit on a player like this you're set for a decade. if you miss, does it really matter that you passed on a few roleplayers instead?
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Re: GG Jackson Thread 

Post#176 » by Catchall » Sun Feb 26, 2023 3:04 am

Not sure what to take away from a game SC lost by 40 pts, but it wasn't good.
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Re: GG Jackson Thread 

Post#177 » by Catchall » Wed Mar 1, 2023 4:02 am

Nice game tonight for GG Jackson, finishing with 22/8/2, including a perfect 11/11 from the foul line, against Mississippi State. That's GG's 10th game scoring 20+ points this season.

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Re: GG Jackson Thread 

Post#178 » by Catchall » Thu Mar 9, 2023 2:00 am

GG with 24 pts and 5 rebs for SC today, including several nice cuts for dunks and plays at the rim. Unfortunately time runs out on the Gamecocks.

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Re: GG Jackson Thread 

Post#179 » by God Squad » Thu Mar 9, 2023 1:25 pm

Catchall wrote:GG with 24 pts and 5 rebs for SC today, including several nice cuts for dunks and plays at the rim. Unfortunately time runs out on the Gamecocks.


I'm still iffy on GG, but he looks a lot better when he doesn't stop the ball and allow other to create for him a little. It justs ugly watching him iso at the top of the key only to brick the shot. You still want to see him develop that part of his game, but he needs to find a balance.
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Re: GG Jackson Thread 

Post#180 » by EvanZ » Thu Mar 9, 2023 11:35 pm

What skill gets him on an NBA court in year 1?


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