Who else loves Dick?

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Re: Who else loves Dick? 

Post#101 » by clyde21 » Mon Mar 6, 2023 7:16 pm

he's more Terrence Ross than anyone else, but I know we're not supposed to make cross racial comps so back to Gordon Hayward
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Re: Who else loves Dick? 

Post#102 » by tester551 » Mon Mar 6, 2023 7:24 pm

clyde21 wrote:he's more Terrence Ross than anyone else, but I know we're not supposed to make cross racial comps so back to Gordon Hayward

Ross is a poor comparison IMO. I could see that as a worst case floor for him.
As an absolute best-case ceiling for him, I could see a Reggie Miller comp.
So someone similar to an Allan Houston could be a good mid-range comparison?
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Re: Who else loves Dick? 

Post#103 » by clyde21 » Mon Mar 6, 2023 7:27 pm

tester551 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:he's more Terrence Ross than anyone else, but I know we're not supposed to make cross racial comps so back to Gordon Hayward

Ross is a poor comparison IMO. I could see that as a worst case floor for him.
As an absolute best-case ceiling for him, I could see a Reggie Miller comp.
So someone similar to an Allan Houston could be a good mid-range comparison?


Ross is the median outcome, I always make median outcome comps
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Re: Who else loves Dick? 

Post#104 » by LofJ » Mon Mar 6, 2023 7:56 pm

Comparing Gradey Dick to a player that was drafted in the top 10 and has been in the league for over a decade as his median outcome is a pretty good compliment.
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Re: Who else loves Dick? 

Post#105 » by Braggins » Mon Mar 6, 2023 7:58 pm

clyde21 wrote:he's more Terrence Ross than anyone else, but I know we're not supposed to make cross racial comps so back to Gordon Hayward

Not bad

Dick vs. Ross freshman season

Gradey Dick
6'7" ~ 200 ~ 19 yrs
per75 poss: 18.8 pts ~ 6.5 reb ~ 2.2 ast ~ 1.9 stl ~ 0.4 blk ~ 1.7 tov
44.2% fg(14.4) ~ 40.6% 3pt(7.7) ~ 85.2% ft(3.5)
32.5 mpg ~ 20.8% usage
116.7 ORtg ~ 98.6 DRtg ~ +7.7 BPM

Terrence Ross
6'6" ~ 195 lbs ~ 19 yrs
per75 poss: 19.2 pts ~ 6.8 reb ~ 2.3 ast ~ 1.4 stl ~ 0.8 blk ~ 1.7 tov
44.3% fg(16.1) ~ 35.2% 3pt(8.8) ~ 75.8% ft(2.3)
17.4 mpg ~ 21.2% usage
119.3 ORtg ~ 99.6 DRtg ~ +6.7 BPM

Dick is a better shooter, more efficient, a bit bigger (don't quite buy 6'8" though), and produced at a similar rate with nearly double the minutes. I think I remember Ross seemed a bit more athletic. I think Dick seems like a better prospect, but I see the similarity.
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Re: Who else loves Dick? 

Post#106 » by TheSuzerain » Mon Mar 6, 2023 8:14 pm

Ross is a career 36% 3-point shooter. Bad comp.
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Re: Who else loves Dick? 

Post#107 » by clyde21 » Mon Mar 6, 2023 8:21 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:Ross is a career 36% 3-point shooter. Bad comp.


that number would be way higher if he was entering the league today
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Re: Who else loves Dick? 

Post#108 » by TheSuzerain » Mon Mar 6, 2023 8:28 pm

clyde21 wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:Ross is a career 36% 3-point shooter. Bad comp.


that number would be way higher if he was entering the league today

Why?

League-wide 3-point %'s aren't rising. Only attempts are. It's been between 35-37% for about two decades.
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Re: Who else loves Dick? 

Post#109 » by clyde21 » Mon Mar 6, 2023 8:40 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:Ross is a career 36% 3-point shooter. Bad comp.


that number would be way higher if he was entering the league today

Why?

League-wide 3-point %'s aren't rising. Only attempts are. It's been between 35-37% for about two decades.


he likely would've been much more specialized and been a more consistent shooter if he was coming today vs. 2012, his biggest problem was just consistency, he had several seasons where he shot pretty close to 3 and has great career indicators from the FT line. also percentages remaining the same while volume is going up means that shooters got better over time. typically percentages drop with higher volume.

and at Washington he was shooting 37% at 5.5 attempts per back in 2011, Dick's at 40% at 5.8 attempts in 2023. if you have a better comp for Dick you're more than welcome to actually chime in with one.
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Re: Who else loves Dick? 

Post#110 » by TheSuzerain » Mon Mar 6, 2023 9:08 pm

clyde21 wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
that number would be way higher if he was entering the league today

Why?

League-wide 3-point %'s aren't rising. Only attempts are. It's been between 35-37% for about two decades.


he likely would've been much more specialized and been a more consistent shooter if he was coming today vs. 2012, his biggest problem was just consistency, he had several seasons where he shot pretty close to 3 and has great career indicators from the FT line.

and at Washington he was shooting 37% at 5.5 attempts per back in 2011, Dick's at 40% at 5.8 attempts in 2023. if you have a better comp for Dick you're more than welcome to actually chime in with one.

Georges Niang as a low-end/safe comp in terms of role and effectiveness within a team. Basically a premium 4th option type supporting core stars.

Higher end is tougher to project. On one hand you have the premium shooting specialist branch with Joe Harris/prime Duncan Robinson types. Other branch would be elite shooting with a heavier offensive load (basically Klay Thompson). Perhaps Dick can find a sweetspot between the two where he's not as high-volume as Klay but he makes up for it in some ways with smarter shot selection and better overall efficiency than Klay.

A solid 2nd-option is probably his absolute ceiling if absolutely everything breaks the right way, but a strong complementary 3rd option is probably the more realistic/projectable ceiling. But he'd be a 3rd option you're excited to have.
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Re: Who else loves Dick? 

Post#111 » by BostonCouchGM » Mon Mar 6, 2023 11:44 pm

SeattleJazzFan wrote:dick really does have pretty elite bball iq.


this is funny. Just got done watching the Texas game. He is completely lost on defense. A legit defensive liability that Texas hunted. He fails to box out. He got lost on a backdoor. Lost on screens resulting in wide open threes. His coach and teammates barked at him because of it and he even got benched in the 1st after being on the floor for just 1 minute because of it. And he was essentially useless on offense except for the two times he hit threes because the undersized guard (Marcus Carr), their worst defender, was on him and was playing nonchalant.

He's a good C & S 3 pt shooter but his defense will keep him off the floor in the NBA. He's a poor man's Kevin Huerter or Sam Hauser and you take that kind of talent, in this draft class, late teens/early 20s. I can't believe people have him in the high lottery. It's baffling. And I know people are reeeing about the Huerter comp but they're eerily similar. Skinny kids with narrow shoulders who can shoot (40% from three) and pass a little but are sieves on defense and athletically challenged. Sorry I can't find a black dude with those attributes to compare him too.
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Re: Who else loves Dick? 

Post#112 » by BostonCouchGM » Mon Mar 6, 2023 11:55 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:
SeattleJazzFan wrote:dick really does have pretty elite bball iq.


this is funny. Just got done watching the Texas game. He is completely lost on defense. A legit defensive liability that Texas hunted. He fails to box out. He got lost on a backdoor. Lost on screens resulting in wide open threes. His coach and teammates barked at him because of it and he even got benched in the 1st after being on the floor for just 1 minute because of it. And he was essentially useless on offense except for the two times he hit threes because the undersized guard (Marcus Carr), their worst defender, was on him and was playing nonchalant.

He's a good C & S 3 pt shooter but his defense will keep him off the floor in the NBA. He's a poor man's Kevin Huerter or Sam Hauser and you take that kind of talent, in this draft class, late teens/early 20s. I can't believe people have him in the high lottery. It's baffling. And I know people are reeeing about the Huerter comp but they're eerily similar. Skinny kids with narrow shoulders who can shoot (40% from three) and pass a little but are sieves on defense and athletically challenged. Sorry I can't find a black dude with those attributes to compare him too.



Huerter (6'7" 195 lbs with a 6'7" wingspan)

last college seasons-15-5-3 shooting 41% from three

Dick (6'7" 195 lbs wingspan unknown but looks average at best)

college-14-5-2 shooting 41% from three
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Re: Who else loves Dick? 

Post#113 » by Braggins » Tue Mar 7, 2023 12:41 am

Sophomore Kevin Huerter is another good statistical comparison. I'm skeptical Dick is supposed to be a poor mans version when Huerter was significantly worse as a freshman and roughly equal as sophomore. I never saw Huerter play in college, though.

Gradey Dick
6'7" ~ 200 ~ freshman
per75 poss: 18.8 pts ~ 6.5 reb ~ 2.2 ast ~ 1.9 stl ~ 0.4 blk ~ 1.7 tov
44.2% fg(14.4) ~ 40.6% 3pt(7.7) ~ 85.2% ft(3.5)
32.5 mpg ~ 20.8% usage ~ 1.28 ast/tov
116.7 ORtg ~ 98.6 DRtg ~ +7.7 BPM

Kevin Huerter
6'7" ~ 190 lbs ~ sophomore
per75 poss: 19.4 pts ~ 6.6 reb ~ 4.4 ast ~ 0.8 stl ~ 0.8 blk ~ 3.1 tov
50.3% fg(13.2) ~ 41.7% 3pt(7.2) ~ 75.8% ft(4.1)
34.4 mpg ~ 21.5% usage ~ 1.35 ast/tov
119.0 ORtg ~ 102.9 DRtg ~ +7.8 BPM

Terrence Ross
6'6" ~ 195 lbs ~ freshman
per75 poss: 19.2 pts ~ 6.8 reb ~ 2.3 ast ~ 1.4 stl ~ 0.8 blk ~ 1.7 tov
44.3% fg(16.1) ~ 35.2% 3pt(8.8) ~ 75.8% ft(2.3)
17.4 mpg ~ 21.2% usage ~ 1.38 ast/tov
119.3 ORtg ~ 99.6 DRtg ~ +6.7 BPM
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Re: Who else loves Dick? 

Post#114 » by TheSuzerain » Tue Mar 7, 2023 2:15 am

Yeah rich man's Huerter is a good comparison. Better shooting peripherals (10% better FT% is quite a lot). And was immediately at this level rather than needing to grow to it as a Soph.

Dick also doing it in this year's version of the Big 12 is nice.
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Re: Who else loves Dick? 

Post#115 » by The-Power » Tue Mar 7, 2023 2:53 am

TheSuzerain wrote:Yeah rich man's Huerter is a good comparison. Better shooting peripherals (10% better FT% is quite a lot). And was immediately at this level rather than needing to grow to it as a Soph.

That disregards a couple of things, though. Huerter during his Sophomore year was close to Dick's current age. Huerter was drafted at 19.8 years old, Dick will be 19.6 years old. Huerter has also clearly shown more as a playmaker and (by his second year) as an on-ball player, and he has been clearly more efficient inside the arc for his career. So while I agree that Dick appears to be the better shooting prospect, I don't see ‘rich man's Huerter’ based on that because he brought other things to the table.
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Re: Who else loves Dick? 

Post#116 » by Braggins » Tue Mar 7, 2023 3:25 am

The-Power wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:Yeah rich man's Huerter is a good comparison. Better shooting peripherals (10% better FT% is quite a lot). And was immediately at this level rather than needing to grow to it as a Soph.

That disregards a couple of things, though. Huerter during his Sophomore year was close to Dick's current age. Huerter was drafted at 19.8 years old, Dick will be 19.6 years old. Huerter has also clearly shown more as a playmaker and (by his second year) as an on-ball player, and he has been clearly more efficient inside the arc for his career. So while I agree that Dick appears to be the better shooting prospect, I don't see ‘rich man's Huerter’ based on that because he brought other things to the table.

Fair. Dick has a big advantage in steals and ft%. He looks like he might be a little bigger than Huerter to me. Also, their ast/tov ration is actually pretty close, 1.28 for Dick and 1.35 for Huerter. Its an interesting comparison.
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Re: Who else loves Dick? 

Post#117 » by TheSuzerain » Tue Mar 7, 2023 2:47 pm

Braggins wrote:
The-Power wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:Yeah rich man's Huerter is a good comparison. Better shooting peripherals (10% better FT% is quite a lot). And was immediately at this level rather than needing to grow to it as a Soph.

That disregards a couple of things, though. Huerter during his Sophomore year was close to Dick's current age. Huerter was drafted at 19.8 years old, Dick will be 19.6 years old. Huerter has also clearly shown more as a playmaker and (by his second year) as an on-ball player, and he has been clearly more efficient inside the arc for his career. So while I agree that Dick appears to be the better shooting prospect, I don't see ‘rich man's Huerter’ based on that because he brought other things to the table.

Fair. Dick has a big advantage in steals and ft%. He looks like he might be a little bigger than Huerter to me. Also, their ast/tov ration is actually pretty close, 1.28 for Dick and 1.35 for Huerter. Its an interesting comparison.

I think shooting is such a premium tool that it does indeed push Dick to the rich man's Huerter category even if there are spots where Huerter looked a bit stronger.

Although I do think it's fair to say Dick would show more on-ball playmaking if he was on a bad college team (Huerter's Maryland missed the tournament). Not that I think he's a hidden gem in that regard but it's decidedly not his role at KU.
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Re: Who else loves Dick? 

Post#118 » by BostonCouchGM » Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:07 am

I don't know how you could watch him play these past few games and come away believing he's a lottery talent let alone top 5 or top 10. He really does get picked on on defense. He can't stay in front of anyone. If it's this bad in college he won't be able to see the floor in the NBA. I think a poor man's Huerter might be his upside tbh.
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Re: Who else loves Dick? 

Post#119 » by buzzkilloton » Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:09 am

I didnt watch tonight but did watch the entire game the night before his defense was fine. Esp the team defense he just knows how to be in the right place. Some of the best hands Ive seen

The high shot release is special he can get it off on anyone. Hes a menance cutting and his high IQ movement without the ball pressures defenses. Should be a top 5 pick but will likely fall a bit to the top 10 due to nba teams overvaluing some of the athletic specimen lotto ticket types this draft has to offer.

Sam Vs just released big board had him 9 Givony had him 11. Im locking him in at 4 overall cant see anyone passing him at this point. Would love to have him as a Piston.
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Re: Who else loves Dick? 

Post#120 » by buzzkilloton » Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:29 am

Yesterdays game 15 5 1ast 1blk 3 stls showing off some of his craftiness.

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