Hasheem Thabeet vs. DeAndre Jordan

[ponder276]

Two very raw big men, both likely to declare (although both probably should stay in college for at least another year). Who do you like more, and why?

[Cammo101]

Jordan has the skill set to be a very good player on both ends. Thabeet only on the defensive end. Thabeet will likely be the better defender, but give me Jordan and the offensive skills as well.

[BigSlam]

I like how much Thabeet has worked on his game and improved. From his FT shooting to his positioning. He strikes me as a coaches dream. A kid who really feels fortunate to be able to play the game.

Jordan, on the other hand, is coming across as a little brat with a questionable work ethic.

Thabeet is the safer pick. If nothing else he's going to be a huge shot blocker and shot changer, although he might never "get it" on the offensive end and develop any moves.

Jordan on the other hand is the high risk/potential reward pick. If he ever pulls his head out of his butt he might really amount to something. Other wise he's just another Patrick O'Bryant.......................without the solid tourney.

[Silk Wilkes]

It's difficult to find bad pros coming out of UConn.

[Cammo101]

It's difficult to find bad pros coming out of UConn.

Khalid El Amin, Travis Knight, Rashad Anderson, Denham Brown, Hilton Armstrong, Tate George, Donny Marshall, Kevin Ollie, Jake Voskuhl, Marcus Williams...

[jumanji]

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Khalid El Amin, Travis Knight, Rashad Anderson, Denham Brown, Hilton Armstrong, Tate George, Donny Marshall, Kevin Ollie, Jake Voskuhl, Marcus Williams...

Add Thabeet to that list.

[Tha King]

Jordan's getting a bad rep. He should have left A&M when Gillipsie left. His coaches are really something. They have been playing around with this kid all year. They want him to return, so they decide to instill doubt in him; limiting his minutes and telling him how raw he is. Listen, any player who sees a guy who knows he's better then the player playing in front of him will react in a negative manner, especially a 18 year old straight out of highschool. When Jordan played he produced, rebounded, blocked shots, intimidated. So tell me, why is it that he has had games where he played 5 minutes? Look at their roster, who in their frontcourt is better then him (can only name one player)? Against Ucla Love was toying with their bigs down the stretch, Jordan played very well when he was on the court, why not put Jordan on him? His size and athleticism would have atleast taken away some of Love's go to moves (no fadeaway on Jordan for sure). He could have also been a force on the offensive glass, the aggies were missing tons of shots. His coaches were incompetent, and they most likely will never land another top flight big man, and rightfully so. I will not label Jordan anything, I will take the wait and see approach. He basically wasted a year, nothing was accomplished.

[ponder276]

What are the NCAA rules around transferring between schools? I've heard a bunch of time that Jordan is probably going to declare for the draft because he does not get along with his coaches (hard to say if that's Jordan's fault or the coaches fault - it's probably a bit of both), but it would seem that spending another year in the NCAA on a different team would be a much better path for him to take, given how raw his game is. Does the NCAA allow players to switch from one Div 1 school to another? I feel like there's a rule where players have to sit for a year if they switch schools, but I'm not 100% sure.

[Cammo101]

What are the NCAA rules around transferring between schools? I've heard a bunch of time that Jordan is probably going to declare for the draft because he does not get along with his coaches (hard to say if that's Jordan's fault or the coaches fault - it's probably a bit of both), but it would seem that spending another year in the NCAA on a different team would be a much better path for him to take, given how raw his game is. Does the NCAA allow players to switch from one Div 1 school to another? I feel like there's a rule where players have to sit for a year if they switch schools, but I'm not 100% sure.

If a player transfers to another 1A school they must sit out a year. If they transfer to a Division 2 or Division 3 school then they do not have to sit. Jordan would have to sit a year if he transfered to any school worth transfering to.

[Ruzious]

Yeah, and I can't imagine that he'd sit out a year, so he's almost certainly going in the draft - which is a shame, imo.

I gotta admit I overrated Thabeet, but I'd still take him over Jordan, because you know that even when he's raw, he's going to be a force on defense. Jordan probably has more well-rounded potential, but you don't know if he'll ever be effective on either side of the ball. Both of them are freaks - in that it's amazing guys that big can move as well as they do. If I were Thabeet, I'd stay in school another year - and boost my draft stock.

[BigSlam]

Jordan's getting a bad rep. He should have left A&M when Gillipsie left. His coaches are really something. They have been playing around with this kid all year. They want him to return, so they decide to instill doubt in him; limiting his minutes and telling him how raw he is. Listen, any player who sees a guy who knows he's better then the player playing in front of him will react in a negative manner, especially a 18 year old straight out of highschool. When Jordan played he produced, rebounded, blocked shots, intimidated. So tell me, why is it that he has had games where he played 5 minutes? Look at their roster, who in their frontcourt is better then him (can only name one player)? Against Ucla Love was toying with their bigs down the stretch, Jordan played very well when he was on the court, why not put Jordan on him? His size and athleticism would have atleast taken away some of Love's go to moves (no fadeaway on Jordan for sure). He could have also been a force on the offensive glass, the aggies were missing tons of shots. His coaches were incompetent, and they most likely will never land another top flight big man, and rightfully so. I will not label Jordan anything, I will take the wait and see approach. He basically wasted a year, nothing was accomplished.

Ya - I'm sure that the coaches wanted to bring Jordan back so badly next year that they decided to sit him during games for very long stretches even though he "produced, rebounded, blocked shots, intimidated" rather than use his production, rebounding, shot blocking and intimidating to win games.

I put it to you that if he did "produce, rebound, block shots and intimidate" that he would have seen the court. But because he did none of those things, he rode the pine.

[hard49]

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Ya - I'm sure that the coaches wanted to bring Jordan back so badly next year that they decided to sit him during games for very long stretches even though he "produced, rebounded, blocked shots, intimidated" rather than use his production, rebounding, shot blocking and intimidating to win games.

I put it to you that if he did "produce, rebound, block shots and intimidate" that he would have seen the court. But because he did none of those things, he rode the pine.

How was he the leading rebounder and shotblocker on the team? Not to mention he had the lowest foul rate and turnover rate among the bigs. He also had the higher PER, Effeciency per 40 and the highest win score per 40 of the bigs.

I am not saying DeAndre Jordan was great or without fault but he was at the very least better than Bryan Davis this entire season.

[BigSlam]

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How was he the leading rebounder and shotblocker on the team? Not to mention he had the lowest foul rate and turnover rate among the bigs. He also had the higher PER, Effeciency per 40 and the highest win score per 40 of the bigs.

I am not saying DeAndre Jordan was great or without fault but he was at the very least better than Bryan Davis this entire season.

How was he left on the bench for so long, so many times, and only averaged 20mpg and 21 starts if he was so good? If he was all that, wouldn't the coaches be cutting off their collective noses to spite their faces by not playing him - especially in the do or die setting of the tourney?

I don't by into "PER, Effeciency per 40 and the highest win score per 40 of the 40 of the bigs" stuff. Sure, those are a neat tool, but they don't tell the whole story.

Look up "sexual intercourse" in the dictionary and it will give you a discription of what it is, but it sure as heck wont paint the whole picture.

That is what things like "PER, Effeciency per 40 and the highest win score per 40 of the 40 of the bigs" are to me.

[hard49]

What about rebounds and block shots?

I guess those don't mean anything to you either.

[Tha King]

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Ya - I'm sure that the coaches wanted to bring Jordan back so badly next year that they decided to sit him during games for very long stretches even though he "produced, rebounded, blocked shots, intimidated" rather than use his production, rebounding, shot blocking and intimidating to win games.

I put it to you that if he did "produce, rebound, block shots and intimidate" that he would have seen the court. But because he did none of those things, he rode the pine.

He was the leading rebounder and shot blocker on the team even though Davis and Jones played more minutes. And when he was on the floor, teams did not get easy looks. A&M started the season off very well, that's when Jordan was consistently playing and starting. It's quite clear though that you haven't been watching him play because if you have you would see how much of an impact he does have on the game/team. What makes things worse, the guy playing in front of him Davis, is mediocre.

Now no one really knows the source of the problem. Many though (scouts, reporters) have said that his coaching staff has been telling him how raw he is, and how he needs to come back. Jordan obviously hasn't taken that well.

[Paydro70]

I mean, watching Jordan play, you can see that he is extremely lacking in BBIQ and basic basketball skills.

That said, he's way better than the people getting minutes ahead of him. The only thing I really can think is that the coaches are stubborn. NOt that they're sabotaging him to get him to stay (because he's a high lottery pick anyway), but coaches often care more about things like turnovers or dumb defensive plays than more substantive ability and production. That's not to say it's wrong on a large scale, but it doesn't necessarily reflect on Jordan that his coaches won't play him. I think it's dumb.

Furthermore, the fact that he played 0, 5, 6, and 5 minutes in those two Big XII Tourney games and the first-round game, then shot up to 15 against UCLA, is totally ridiculous, and throws heavy doubt onto the coaching staff. Why would you suddenly bench a guy you've been playing 20+ mpg? Why bring him back when you're playing a really good team UCLA after not playing him earlier? It just doesn't make sense.

[BigSlam]

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It's quite clear though that you haven't been watching him play because if you have you would see how much of an impact he does have on the game/team.

This is a cheap, throw away line that people use wayyyyyyyy too often.

Fact is, I have watched him quite a lot, which is how I can confidently take this stance on him. And what makes his case even worse is the DX report a little while back that suggested that not only did Jordan have maturity issues but work ethic issues as well.

But I guess that's the coaches fault too?

[Tha King]

I mean, watching Jordan play, you can see that he is extremely lacking in BBIQ and basic basketball skills.

That said, he's way better than the people getting minutes ahead of him. The only thing I really can think is that the coaches are stubborn. NOt that they're sabotaging him to get him to stay (because he's a high lottery pick anyway), but coaches often care more about things like turnovers or dumb defensive plays than more substantive ability and production. That's not to say it's wrong on a large scale, but it doesn't necessarily reflect on Jordan that his coaches won't play him. I think it's dumb.

Furthermore, the fact that he played 0, 5, 6, and 5 minutes in those two Big XII Tourney games and the first-round game, then shot up to 15 against UCLA, is totally ridiculous, and throws heavy doubt onto the coaching staff. Why would you suddenly bench a guy you've been playing 20+ mpg? Why bring him back when you're playing a really good team UCLA after not playing him earlier? It just doesn't make sense.

I agree. His BBIQ may be the reason. The thing is, he brought alot, both defensively and even offensively (putbacks, Offensive boards, occasional post up). Davis and Jones, the two guys in front of him weren't the smartest players (basketball wise), therefore I dont understand why they were favored (Davis especially) since Jordan outproduced them. College coaches usually have that one guy who they are extremely tough on. On this team Jordan was the easiest guy since the rest of the contributors were key pieces on that successful A&M squad last year. Also the coaches may have been inclined to favor the older "vets" so that they didn't "lose" the team. If I am correct the coaching staff from last year is completely gone.

[Tha King]

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This is a cheap, throw away line that people use wayyyyyyyy too often.

Fact is, I have watched him quite a lot, which is how I can confidently take this stance on him. And what makes his case even worse is the DX report a little while back that suggested that not only did Jordan have maturity issues but work ethic issues as well.

But I guess that's the coaches fault too?

quick question, do you believe Deandre Jordan is better then Jones and Davis?

[JonathanG]

he suffered food poisoning during the Big 12 tournament, and was in the hospital at one point too I think. Look it up, there are some articles about it. That's why he barely played there.