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Andrew (Hollywood, FL): Pat Riley has made it clear that Rose is at the top of his board. What do you think the future looks like if Rose goes first and the Heat take Beasley?

SportsNation Chad Ford: (2:14 PM ET ) Good. I think Beasley would be a good fit on the Heat. I think he can play with Marion and Wade. However, it sounds like given the choice, they might opt to trade the pick or ... I'm hearing they'll also seriously consider O.J. Mayo. He's here working out with Dwyane Wade. I think they'd actually be a better combo in the backcourt than Wade-Rose because O.J. can really shoot the ball.

Mick (SF): Chad - Outside of Beasley and Rose, who has the potential to be "special"? Mayo? Bayless?

SportsNation Chad Ford: (2:18 PM ET ) Mayo. No question. He's suffered from such extreme expectations. I watched him for two days, spent a lot of time talking to him and I'm blown away. As far as basketball goes ... he really has it all. I think he'll be good enough to play point on the right team, but even if he doesn't, he really can score. As a person, I was impressed. I've heard all the bad stuff, but what I saw was a very intelligent, respectful and humble kid who is working his butt off. I think he's misunderstood. I know he's had a few issues in high school -- but honestly how many kids do you know that haven't had any issues in high school? I think he's a clear top 3 pick ... he might even crack into the No. 2 conversation with Miami.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=20701

Still doubt they pass on Beasley if he's there for them, but who knows...

A trade down with the TWolves makes perfect sense IMO.... Mayo is the real deal.... Never understood why people think that Rose will be a "true PG" in the NBA and Mayo won't....

Rose's Assist #s were only marginally better than Mayo's, and Mayo had to be the lead option whereas Rose played on the 2nd Best team in college basketball....

People say Rose is a much better fit for the NBA 1 because he's so athletic that he can "dunk with his elbows".... Last time I checked, there's never been a true PG that has that kind of athleticism and that poor of a jump shot.... No, those guys play a position in the NBA that we like to call the 2.... In which case, Rose is undersized.... Taking Rose over Beasley will be the worst mistake in the NBA Draft since Marvin Williams over Chris Paul....

I could easily see OJ being the best player out of this draft

I'd still go with Beasley.... Mayo's one downfall is that he has not yet learned shot selection.... That's also one thing you cannot really teach a player, the difference between a good shot and a bad shot.... If Mayo picks that up, he goes from being mentioned in the same breath as Monta Ellis and Ben Gordon into the Dwyane Wade, Gilbert Arenas, Deron Williams category....

CelticFan101 wrote:I'd still go with Beasley.... Mayo's one downfall is that he has not yet learned shot selection.... That's also one thing you cannot really teach a player, the difference between a good shot and a bad shot.... If Mayo picks that up, he goes from being mentioned in the same breath as Monta Ellis and Ben Gordon into the Dwyane Wade, Gilbert Arenas, Deron Williams category....

That is just not true...

Um, k.... Would you care to expound on why you think that is "just not true".... To use the extreme example, have Larry Brown, George Karl, Mo Cheeks, or John Thompson yet been able to teach Allen Iverson the difference between a good shot and a bad shot? Please, get back to me with that answer....

princeofpalace wrote:I could easily see OJ being the best player out of this draft

As I've been saying for a long, long time, I agree.

I would definately consider all three (Mayo/Rose/Beasley) for the number one pick, but I would much rather trade down for him than take him at one because his stock is quite low for a player of his calibre and potential (from the Bulls point of view). I would be happy with any of the three.

However, I think Beasley would be the best pick for Miami at #2. Rose would be nice, but they already have a star SG in Dwyane Wade who really dominates the ball and takes alot of the playmaking ability away from Rose - especially since Wae isn't much of a shooter. If they really want Mayo, trade down with Minnesota who'd probably give a ton for a shot at Beasley/Rose.

Um, k.... Would you care to expound on why you think that is "just not true"....

I think I might have an answer -- Chauncey Billups.

I think he came into the league with similar problems as Mayo (minus the ridiculous hype) -- a huge ego, solid pg skills, and just a complete lack of discipline.

Detroit was the right system for him and he matured. He showed flashes on Minnesota as well, but I think it was when Dumars signed him to be the leader of that Detroit team when he really developed into the player we see today.

One could argue Jason Williams' shot selection got better over time as well... but that's because his shot selection just couldn't get any worse.

I think it is rare because there are plenty of very good players who will never figure it out (Baron Davis comes to mind)

CelticFan101 wrote:Um, k.... Would you care to expound on why you think that is "just not true".... To use the extreme example, have Larry Brown, George Karl, Mo Cheeks, or John Thompson yet been able to teach Allen Iverson the difference between a good shot and a bad shot? Please, get back to me with that answer....

Tony Parker... He used to chuck threes and now he limits himself to shots in the paint and the 18 foot jumpshot.

It is just personal choice in what you do on the court. A good rebuke from a coach when they f up would solve alot of problems. Not one of those coaches would dare to sit AI down after he stupidly shoots a bad shot. Parker when he would shoot a shot that Pop didn't like, he would get a tounge lashing and a seat on the bench.

GSW2K4 wrote:

Um, k.... Would you care to expound on why you think that is "just not true"....

I think I might have an answer -- Chauncey Billups.


Detroit was the right system for him and he matured.

Good point, but here's where reading comprehension comes in kids.... I never argued that a player cannot MATURE and develop the sense of the difference between a good shot and bad.... Simply that it cannot be TAUGHT.... In fact, in reference to Mayo, I was making the implicit statement that if he MATURED, he too could develop that ability and thus alleviate what I see as the only real flaw in his game.... Truth positive it has to come from maturity.... But as I attempted to point out with guys like AI and also with Antoine Walker, Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury, and company, it is not something that can be taught.... Either you figure it out on your own, or you spend your career shooting 40% from the field.... That's the dilemma facing OJ....

Rose will go first, Beasley 2nd and Mayo will probably fall to the knicks if they dont trade the pick.

Arroyo30 wrote:Rose will go first, Beasley 2nd and Mayo will probably fall to the knicks if they dont trade the pick.

he wont go past the wolves

CelticFan101 wrote:Good point, but here's where reading comprehension comes in kids.... I never argued that a player cannot MATURE and develop the sense of the difference between a good shot and bad.... Simply that it cannot be TAUGHT.... In fact, in reference to Mayo, I was making the implicit statement that if he MATURED, he too could develop that ability and thus alleviate what I see as the only real flaw in his game.... Truth positive it has to come from maturity.... But as I attempted to point out with guys like AI and also with Antoine Walker, Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury, and company, it is not something that can be taught.... Either you figure it out on your own, or you spend your career shooting 40% from the field.... That's the dilemma facing OJ....

You are trying to save yourself by making some subtle difference between maturity and being taught.

You don't think after X amount of benchings, X amount of four letter words given by the coach, X amount of hours of video tape that a players wouldn't not learn what is a good shot or a bad shot in a game situation.


You can teach a player what is a bad shot and a good shot.... if you want to believe otherwise... so be it. I just think you are wrong.

These are not subtle differences.... To imply that one can learn the difference between good shots and bad ones by simply being benched, cussed, and rehearsed is to imply that Allen Iverson, Antoine Walker, Stephon Marbury, et al escaped all of those methods despite playing under some of the best coaches in the history of the game.... The difference between good shot and bad shot CANNOT be taught.... You have to figure it out for yourself, and that comes through maturity....

Assume even the best coaching, seeing the best game tape, reviewing the most indepth film, and hearing the best cursings in the English language.... Game 7, 4th Quarter, 30 seconds left, ball is swung to you.... What do you do? You think all those hours of coaching, etc are on a player's mind? As a fan, you better hope not....

CelticFan101 wrote:I'd still go with Beasley.... Mayo's one downfall is that he has not yet learned shot selection.... That's also one thing you cannot really teach a player, the difference between a good shot and a bad shot.... If Mayo picks that up, he goes from being mentioned in the same breath as Monta Ellis and Ben Gordon into the Dwyane Wade, Gilbert Arenas, Deron Williams category....

Did you just say that shot selection is what elevates Gilbert Arenas above Monta Ellis? Because Gil will send it from anywhere on the floor while Ellis operates very much within his 20-foot-and-in limits.

As for Mayo, his shot selection improved significantly during the college season. In the opening loss against Mercer he was chucking everything, and throughout much of the early season he would hoist bad looks in attempts to take over the game. Those tendencies were nearly non-existent in February. If no one was teaching him shot selection, then he did a very solid job of independent learning.

As a Miami fan, they would be out of their minds to pass on Beasley. Even if they were considering drafting Mayo, I'd much rather have them move down 2-3 spots to #4 or 5 and draft him there, while getting alot of value on passing Beasley up.

In the end, I just cant see Riley passing up on Beasley.

Miami would be completely bat s**t insane to pass up Beasley for Mayo.

CelticFan101 wrote: The difference between good shot and bad shot CANNOT be taught.... You have to figure it out for yourself, and that comes through maturity....

I have a friend who argues something similar -- that you can't teach anyone anything, there is only learning.

It becomes a semantic argument in the end about what is "teaching", what makes a good teacher, different teaching styles, setting up situations etc..

I think we can all agree that a coach can strongly influence a player's shot selection/overall maturation.

Deliberately putting a player in a position to succeed can be a form of teaching because you're helping them grow. Billups grew as a successful contributor in Detroit's system and learned better shot selection (and overall decision making).

Same with Tony Parker -- Poppovich has very publicly described how he taught Parker and his shot selection improved. Again, part of that was due to the system, part due to the presence of very good vets, part of that due to natural maturation.

A good teacher can take all of that and shape the experience to maximize a student's development.

If a team is ready to buckle down and focus on it, i think Mayo can be a very successful player worthy of a #2 pick. It's risky, I wouldn't do it, but I would get myself league pass and watch Miami every night to see how it works out for them.

Walker, AI, etc are hard headed -- we all know that. We cannot disprove an entire phenomenon by pointing to negative cases. Are we going to say Larry Brown is a bad teacher because he couldn't reign in Marbury and AI?

I think discussing the philosophical implications of what it means to say we can "teach someone" anything is a much larger conversation that we probably don't need to have here in order to better understand OJ Mayo's potential.

The real truth of it is you can teach people but you can't make them learn.