SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 30: SPURS AT KNICKS, 25-12-2024, 11 AM (CT)

[G R E Y]

4TH Q: SPURS 114 KNICKS 117

MITCH JOHNSON JUST COST US TWO GAMES IN A ROW.

Extremely poor lineup and roster choices to give up our lead on a 10-0 run and then not put in another big beside Wemby or in his stead the ENTIRE GAME, THE SECOND IN A ROW.

What a waste of a wonderful game by Wemby. And Sochan. And CP3. And Tre.

Of course it helps if we boxed out better but you can't teach height or if we turned it over less but players don't sub themselves in, but man oh man do those coaching choices stink.

POP PLEASE COME BACK!!!!!!!

That is all...

p s. This

Read on Twitter

I'm done with Mitch Johnson currying favour with Wemby to the detriment of the team, to the detriment of not using all our available strengths being put in the best position to help the team, to the detriment of wins, favouring stats instead. Wemby is otherworldly but we need him fresh late and that needs help throughout the game we could have but didn't use.

Good.

Read on Twitter

[G R E Y]

NOTEWORTHY ACHIEVEMENTS

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Ballings7]

Would of been nice to get the win.

Great showcase of the team and Wemby overall though. Good for the league and team.

[imagump1313]

Finally JC is out. Tre not Castle in. Ok that's a choice. Mitch Johnson loves him his Hobbit lineups...

Great game though.. At the end of the day Knicks just have more talent. We got some big time front office decisions and recruitment to make next year in getting some talent in here. You don't want Wemby to walk like Lebron/Durant etc.

Its almost like these coaches are trying to make us lose so that we "learn something". Its like not a big deal to them because they always use that excuse. Well you can also learn things and grow by winning some effing games. We will have plenty of games where our coaching staff doesn't handicap us and we will still lose. Just effing get your head's out of your asses guys!

The coaching has been abysmal the last two years, even when Pop is around. I've been a fan long before Pop was even here. Ive been pretty quiet about Mitch Johnson soo far but he seems in over his head. Although its the entire staff, not just him.
I'm not sure why Brett Brown is even here.

[Parraknick]

Well played, seriously impressed by your overall talent.

I think it’s the best win of our season.

We (Knicks fans) are scared for the future when Wemby has a bit more experience and help. Best wishes for the season!

[G R E Y]

Finally JC is out. Tre not Castle in. Ok that's a choice. Mitch Johnson loves him his Hobbit lineups...

Great game though.. At the end of the day Knicks just have more talent. We got some big time front office decisions and recruitment to make next year in getting some talent in here. You don't want Wemby to walk like Lebron/Durant etc.

Its almost like these coaches are trying to make us lose so that we "learn something". Its like not a big deal to them because they always use that excuse. Well you can also learn things and grow by winning some effing games. We will have plenty of games where our coaching staff doesn't handicap us and we will still lose. Just effing get your head's out of your asses guys!

The coaching has been abysmal the last two years, even when Pop is around. I've been a fan long before Pop was even here. Ive been pretty quiet about Mitch Johnson soo far but he seems in over his head. Although its the entire staff, not just him.
I'm not sure why Brett Brown is even here.

I'm fine with different requirements ie/longer leashes for players learning our system in a deep rebuild even if it's more frustrating as a fan but long term I get it. And except for Trey Loles not getting minutes when we absolutely needed a PF - that was about him coming to camp fat, so I agree with the lesson - I can't think of a time when Pop would refuse to play a big when we needed rebounding, even with a two small guard Hobbit lineup. Like you said it flat out goes against winning basketball which starts with playing guys who excel at the very thing we were getting demolished at. Rebounds.

Here's the thing I also don't get - Mitch Johnson said Tre Jones was out there late because he had played well so you reward/ride the good hand. Ok. Makes sense. So then why bench Bassey the last two games when his good play leaped Collins in the rotation? Why bench Mamu when he makes 3s well? W H Y ? Their big bodies could have helped.

You could tell in the post game interview Wemby was pissed. He rightly didn't want to comment on his individual achievements and said that we "... lack some attributes". Like that's as close to a criticism as we've heard, and frankly those lacking attributes also were from Mitch Johnson. I don't know who is responsible for what but the decisions fall on the acting head coach at a given time. It comes with the privilege of the position. It just boggles the mind that we had a midget line up that gave up the lead and then that again when we needed to secure a board. Like....... sub in a rebounder or three. They're fresh! To be so rigid as so put a team at a disadvantage two games in a row, and to be inconsistent - saying Tre was out there because he played well so he deserved it meanwhile Bassey had DNPs for his good play and Devin and Julian were out there, is inexplicable. Inexcusable at this point. You could hear CP3 was pissed too as in the whole oh we're young and make mistakes is an excuse that pros who want to win don't use.

You may not have liked Pop coaching decisions the last whichever years, but coaching clearly matters and right decisions at right times by a coach can clearly win or lose a game. And it's not even some grand ATO schemes. We're talking basic things that are common sense. Bigs get subbed on for rebounds all the damn time. It's one thing if you don't have them. But we did finally get a fully healthy team and a third of them, including THREE bigs, watch the entire two games. Brutal.

[imagump1313]

Finally JC is out. Tre not Castle in. Ok that's a choice. Mitch Johnson loves him his Hobbit lineups...

Great game though.. At the end of the day Knicks just have more talent. We got some big time front office decisions and recruitment to make next year in getting some talent in here. You don't want Wemby to walk like Lebron/Durant etc.

Its almost like these coaches are trying to make us lose so that we "learn something". Its like not a big deal to them because they always use that excuse. Well you can also learn things and grow by winning some effing games. We will have plenty of games where our coaching staff doesn't handicap us and we will still lose. Just effing get your head's out of your asses guys!

The coaching has been abysmal the last two years, even when Pop is around. I've been a fan long before Pop was even here. Ive been pretty quiet about Mitch Johnson soo far but he seems in over his head. Although its the entire staff, not just him.
I'm not sure why Brett Brown is even here.

I'm fine with different requirements ie/longer leashes for players learning our system in a deep rebuild even if it's more frustrating as a fan but long term I get it. And except for Trey Loles not getting minutes when we absolutely needed a PF - that was about him coming to camp fat, so I agree with the lesson - I can't think of a time when Pop would refuse to play a big when we needed rebounding, even with a two small guard Hobbit lineup. Like you said it flat out goes against winning basketball which starts with playing guys who excel at the very thing we were getting demolished at. Rebounds.

Here's the thing I also don't get - Mitch Johnson said Tre Jones was out there late because he had played well so you reward/ride the good hand. Ok. Makes sense. So then why bench Bassey the last two games when his good play leaped Collins in the rotation? Why bench Mamu when he makes 3s well? W H Y ? Their big bodies could have helped.

You could tell in the post game interview Wemby was pissed. He rightly didn't want to comment on his individual achievements and said that we "... lack some attributes". Like that's as close to a criticism as we've heard, and frankly those lacking attributes also were from Mitch Johnson. I don't know who is responsible for what but the decisions fall on the acting head coach at a given time. It comes with the privilege of the position. It just boggles the mind that we had a midget line up that gave up the lead and then that again when we needed to secure a board. Like....... sub in a rebounder or three. They're fresh! To be so rigid as so put a team at a disadvantage two games in a row, and to be inconsistent - saying Tre was out there because he played well so he deserved it meanwhile Bassey had DNPs for his good play and Devin and Julian were out there, is inexplicable. Inexcusable at this point. You could hear CP3 was pissed too as in the whole oh we're young and make mistakes is an excuse that pros who want to win don't use.

You may not have liked Pop coaching decisions the last whichever years, but coaching clearly matters and right decisions at right times by a coach can clearly win or lose a game. And it's not even some grand ATO schemes. We're talking basic things that are common sense. Bigs get subbed on for rebounds all the damn time. It's one thing if you don't have them. But we did finally get a fully healthy team and a third of them, including THREE bigs, watch the entire two games. Brutal.

My only problem with Pop is having Champagnie play 1000 minutes a night and seeming to not hold anyone accountable for being stupid the last two years. I understand the team is young and we were trying to see what we had last year. But WE HAVE SEEN IT. We became a championship team because Pop used to get in people's asses and wouldn't let any of this nonsense slide. Ask Tony Parker.

Now we watch half the team turn the ball over constantly and not play defense then high five each other after saying "aww shucks" like nothing is wrong.

The Tre Jones excuse was lame. Jones should NEVER be on the floor the same time Paul is EVER. Castle should have been out there. I dont make a million dollars a year to coach but even I know this.

I totally understand Wemby's frustration and the seeming lack of urgency this franchise has with trying to be better. Its seems like the only potential this team has to get better is Wemby himself getting better and thats totally lazy. Are we the Atlanta Hawks or are we the San Antonio Spurs? I really cant tell anymore and at this rate Im beginning to worry if Pop doesnt coach anymore that Wemby will opt out of here.

This franchise didnt settle at one time. We even traded for DENNIS RODMAN of all people to try to win titles. Obviously that didnt work but at least we effing tried something. It just seems like this franchise has no plan to be successful except for Wemby to just win every game himself. Its frustrating seeing this team that used to have direction and a plan the last 30 years fall into mediocrity.

IMO the best thing that happened with this game is that the entire country was watching and most of the comments I have seen were "Wemby is amazing but he is playing along side a bunch of tin cans". There was a little bit of this last year but after this game people nationally are seeing that Wemby is improving and whats around him isnt. The national media will run with this narrative now and maybe it will put some pressure on us to do something.

[G R E Y]

Its almost like these coaches are trying to make us lose so that we "learn something". Its like not a big deal to them because they always use that excuse. Well you can also learn things and grow by winning some effing games. We will have plenty of games where our coaching staff doesn't handicap us and we will still lose. Just effing get your head's out of your asses guys!

The coaching has been abysmal the last two years, even when Pop is around. I've been a fan long before Pop was even here. Ive been pretty quiet about Mitch Johnson soo far but he seems in over his head. Although its the entire staff, not just him.
I'm not sure why Brett Brown is even here.

I'm fine with different requirements ie/longer leashes for players learning our system in a deep rebuild even if it's more frustrating as a fan but long term I get it. And except for Trey Loles not getting minutes when we absolutely needed a PF - that was about him coming to camp fat, so I agree with the lesson - I can't think of a time when Pop would refuse to play a big when we needed rebounding, even with a two small guard Hobbit lineup. Like you said it flat out goes against winning basketball which starts with playing guys who excel at the very thing we were getting demolished at. Rebounds.

Here's the thing I also don't get - Mitch Johnson said Tre Jones was out there late because he had played well so you reward/ride the good hand. Ok. Makes sense. So then why bench Bassey the last two games when his good play leaped Collins in the rotation? Why bench Mamu when he makes 3s well? W H Y ? Their big bodies could have helped.

You could tell in the post game interview Wemby was pissed. He rightly didn't want to comment on his individual achievements and said that we "... lack some attributes". Like that's as close to a criticism as we've heard, and frankly those lacking attributes also were from Mitch Johnson. I don't know who is responsible for what but the decisions fall on the acting head coach at a given time. It comes with the privilege of the position. It just boggles the mind that we had a midget line up that gave up the lead and then that again when we needed to secure a board. Like....... sub in a rebounder or three. They're fresh! To be so rigid as so put a team at a disadvantage two games in a row, and to be inconsistent - saying Tre was out there because he played well so he deserved it meanwhile Bassey had DNPs for his good play and Devin and Julian were out there, is inexplicable. Inexcusable at this point. You could hear CP3 was pissed too as in the whole oh we're young and make mistakes is an excuse that pros who want to win don't use.

You may not have liked Pop coaching decisions the last whichever years, but coaching clearly matters and right decisions at right times by a coach can clearly win or lose a game. And it's not even some grand ATO schemes. We're talking basic things that are common sense. Bigs get subbed on for rebounds all the damn time. It's one thing if you don't have them. But we did finally get a fully healthy team and a third of them, including THREE bigs, watch the entire two games. Brutal.

My only problem with Pop is having Champagnie play 1000 minutes a night and seeming to not hold anyone accountable for being stupid the last two years. I understand the team is young and we were trying to see what we had last year. But WE HAVE SEEN IT. We became a championship team because Pop used to get in people's asses and wouldn't let any of this nonsense slide. Ask Tony Parker.

Now we watch half the team turn the ball over constantly and not play defense then high five each other after saying "aww shucks" like nothing is wrong.

The Tre Jones excuse was lame. Jones should NEVER be on the floor the same time Paul is EVER. Castle should have been out there. I dont make a million dollars a year to coach but even I know this.

I totally understand Wemby's frustration and the seeming lack of urgency this franchise has with trying to be better. Its seems like the only potential this team has to get better is Wemby himself getting better and thats totally lazy. Are we the Atlanta Hawks or are we the San Antonio Spurs? I really cant tell anymore and at this rate Im beginning to worry if Pop doesnt coach anymore that Wemby will opt out of here.

This franchise didnt settle at one time. We even traded for DENNIS RODMAN of all people to try to win titles. Obviously that didnt work but at least we effing tried something. It just seems like this franchise has no plan to be successful except for Wemby to just win every game himself. Its frustrating seeing this team that used to have direction and a plan the last 30 years fall into mediocrity.

IMO the best thing that happened with this game is that the entire country was watching and most of the comments I have seen were "Wemby is amazing but he is playing along side a bunch of tin cans". There was a little bit of this last year but after this game people nationally are seeing that Wemby is improving and whats around him isnt. The national media will run with this narrative now and maybe it will put some pressure on us to do something.

I mean I think it's a little too focused on Champagne but as an example I get it. And context matters. Like you don't treat a rebuild situation the same as more vet laden situation. Guys have to have more leeway to learn and you teach differently and have different expectations at different levels.

It's why Blake leaped Branham in the rotation, why the latter got benched for a few games with DNPs under Pop, why Champagnie is the resident player that gets chew outs, having taken over the mantle from Keldon before him.

I know you know this and that your point is why keep playing players who make mistakes like TOs. Well it's a give and take. Like Julian gives us what we need - 3s and spacing. When he had crap games we didn't have much of an option so we we addressed the 1 and 3 with vets.

But when the season started we were without Devin and Sochan so Julian and Barnes started. It's not until recently that we had our true starters back and even more recently that our full team has been healthy, both well after Pop went out with his own health issue.

I don't think there was carry over to this season of last season's tolerances but I don't agree that a guy has to be treated like Parker to get a point across. Not only was the context wholly different in terms of a young guy fitting into a vet team, but Pop was a different guy, too.

In his HOF speech he admitted had her treated a player today like he did Parker he'd probably get arrested, words to that effect. I don't think treating players like he did Parker is some mark of heights from which Pop fell. I think *not* treating players like that while imparting necessary knowledge is a mark of improvement, and a clean police record lol

If guys don't respond, they get chewed out or benched but the message doesn't need to be conveyed like it used to be.

It's been so long since we've had to rebuild that people forget the growing pains, though I agree that we need to hold players to a higher standard now. Like Devin has flat out sucked the last few games. I don't know what gets said behind closed doors but I've flat out witnessed Pop yelling at him for going his own way rather than running the play called, and calling a timeout just to get on the court to do it. One time it *really* stood out was in Toronto during the pandemic when they let in like half the arena so Pop's yelling was loud and clear and **** echoed lmao

But like Julian does his basic job. And he started again because we had starters injured. Now if Pop were behind the bench and deciding against playing three healthy bigs when we needed rebounds I'd lay the L at his feet. I'm not hung up on JC as much as the broader picture of maximizing team strengths and on a given night one guy may have it going or not, and on a given night we may or may not need to use all three extra bigs. But these errors of shortening the rotation when we have more players available and using the wrong ones in the wrong situations is glaring and shows why good coaching matters.

Agree that Tre and CP3 should not be out there together. Agree that players besides Wemby have to show improvements, though his level of improvement is freakish and should probably not be the standard for anyone else. That said, it stands out that Devin has sucked. He's supposed to be our designated second best player but hasn't eased pressure off Wemby. Sochan has been terrific. Castle has looked great, I'm not worried about his shot right now. Good form, good shot selection and variety, good work ethic so I think efficiency will come. Julian minutes I expect will drop the more Dev plays but he has to play better or else our options thin out.

And this is where your point about overall talent comes to the forefront and again I agree. There's a growing consensus - among fans, that is, no idea if it's what PATFO is thinking, that if things don't improve come February then we ought to be looking for upgrades. Maybe not at the level of a Fox, but more affordable ready now talent.

We are weighing Wemby down with lack of execution, talent, and dumb rotations. He's separating himself so quickly that PATFO have to be at the ready to grow the team alongside him. I think we are ready given the cap flexibility and assets, just a matter of consolidating for the right complementary pieces.

Our D though it's slipped of late is much improved overall from last season. Yes it's a lot on Wemby and yes we need better talent especially behind Wemby when he sits but we're around the middle after being near last previously.

It's hard to build with the apron factors and making sure we upgrade talent while making sure we sustain long term success. I think we thought we had a sidekick for Wemby in Devin but are maybe coming around to that not being the case. So it's feedback but also having to pivot in a different direction, one that frankly may open opportunities to upgrade other positions if Castle can be slotted at SG.

Tl;Dr - standards are the same but times and contexts are different; yes we need more talent and I think we are not standing passively just patting ourselves on the back watching how great Wemby makes us; growth takes time and trades take time preparation and luck and cap management; we have to find the sweet spot between them for sustained success. And we need Pop back.

[DaGawd]

you mf’ers are blessed to have wemby

[imagump1313]

you mf’ers are blessed to have wemby

Couldn't have said this better myself